Burner Radio Stations?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:35 pm

I'm looking into running a small radio station at BRC. I'm a ham and an engineer so I don't have problems with the technical stuff. I'm not familiar with the types of hardware available for what I need. I've been doing my research and transmitters vary so much it's hard to tell what is good. It also seems that there is a bit of black magic used to get good sound quality, for this reason and time constraints I'd like to purchase pre-built components.

Anyone here familiar with available hardware or know someone who works on a station that may share information with me?

Edit: I'm also interested in power needed to cover BRC. I assume 5w will do a good job.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:24 am

Damn, Mike. I like you more with every post.

Run a search on this board for Count Boxarox. He's built and run our Apokiliptika disinformation radio station, WTF 99.9 FM, two years in a row without a hitch. Knows alot about the work-arounds you speak of. What kind of programming format do you have in mind?

Good luck.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:28 am

Ok thanks. I found "Boxarox" and sent him a message. I appreciate the nudge in the right direction.

As for programming it's still very rough at this point. We're setting up a tiki* themed camp and will likely play our "themed" music. So depending on the mood of the camp it'll be 50's lounge music (Martin Denny, Herb Alpert etc), or traditional Polynesian music, or even more recent surf/rockabilly. For example we'll probably play lounge music during hangover times, faster music in the evenings and more traditional if we're doing an event, like our Luau Wednesday evening. We also have some DJs that want to play at our camp. Most likely the radio station will stay as a pure extension of the camp and we'll play what's playing at camp even though the theme and mood will drastically change at that point.

*Not just pure tiki, but including a very "lost on a desert island" feel.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:23 am

I have found 50s music is well recieved from about 10:00 to around 2:30. After that minds start to think party 2nite. Around that time I start to listen to the sounds of the city, rest, eat and head out for play time. The Musical Moop Mobile plays 1954 most of the time. It make happy feet and smiles. The music is broadcast to the speakers. So I my be able to play your sounds by going to your chanel. You may have to do a Edward R Morrow when I plant my DOOM on that nasty boneless fish and pfc. Kill-ack.

Pogo · Post by **Pogo** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:17 pm

If your antenna is 20 feet up you can cover the playa with a watt.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:51 pm

I was thinking about 30 feet. The dome will be 20 high. Thanks for the info. :)

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:13 pm

http://www.bayarearadio.org/pages/faq.shtml

Might want to toss in some jingles and ads from the first half of the 20th century. Might be fun.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:00 pm

geekster wrote:http://www.bayarearadio.org/pages/faq.shtml

Might want to toss in some jingles and ads from the first half of the 20th century. Might be fun.

Time warped jingles... great

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:50 pm

Yes five watts will cover the event, if you have a good antenna and good height. I will warn you that this project is not as easy as it seems. Playa dust is brutal on VHF equipment. We spend a thousand dollars a year replacing equipment just so we are sure it will run through the next year.

Be warned, there is A LOT of junk on the market in the way of low power kits. If you want to run five watts, in stereo, and have good reliable output and good sound and cover the inside of the event , expect to spend at least $800.00 as a basic starting point to make it happen.

You need to be aware that before you go on the air you need to corodinate your frequency slot with Mike Aquino. [email protected] There is over 20 stations on the air at BM plus about 8 commercial stations that can be heard you will need to avoid as well, so the band is a bit crowded. There is a frequency guide on line he maintains however the link appears to be dead. Mike can get you going with a frequency and point you to the broadcasters list server.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:11 am

"Time warped jingles... great"

Might even be able to get more than that. If you explain that it is a non-commercial use as an art project, it might be possible to get permission to use larger parts of their archive. Permission for use of copyright material could be granted and access to entire shows from the past might be possible. It might even be fun to see if a large segment of a day's broadcasting could be obtained and time sync it so it matches clock time. When the announcer says it is 10:42 ... it really is 10:42 ... and you get the news at the top of the hour, but they are stories from 40 years ago or something.

Just a wild thought I had during the brief moment when I considered putting together a broadcast station out there. I wanted to have something cool that I wouldn't have to babysit much and replaying something from years and years ago I thought would be cool and not too demanding. Just turn on the tape and let 'er run till time to change it.

There are undoubtedly other radio museums out there who might be able to offer similar material for a project. A non-commercial use would probably get permission. How about some important baseball game from long ago (THE GIANTS WIN THE PENANT! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENANT!). There is a lot of material out there that will never get to see the dark of people's ear canals if someone doesn't put it out there. It's a great way to keep those radio pioneers alive, in my opinion.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:27 am

I even wondered at one point if it might be possible to get an STA (special temporary authority) from the FCC to have a regular broadcast shortwave station and transmit from Burning Man to the world. Being as it would only be in operation for a week, it might be a prize for global shortwave listeners to catch in operation. Find some cold war surplus HF transmitter someplace and go for it. The QSL cards would probably be something many SWLs would love to have.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:12 am

expect to spend at least $800.00 as a basic starting point to make it happen.

Do you know much about the details of the equipment you use? Some specific combinations of equipment that worked and didn't work for you? Most radio equipment I've used was older and wouldn't be worried about the dust too much, but I can see where it'd become a problem with newer equipment. I would imagine there would be older equipment with high quality sound that might stand up to the dust better?

I like the ideas about older jingles.

Also does BM have special FCC permit to broadcast during the event? Does Mike Aquino work for bmorg or just try to coordinate things on his own to help maintain order?

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:24 am

Mike is the frequency guru for all the radio stations on the playa. Basically all the broadcasters notify him of the intent to return and he updates the online data base. He doesnt work for the org, he simply is the go to guy for all us broadcasters so everyone has a place and nobody just shows up and goes on the air and stomps out someone elses signal or creates interferance with commercial broadcasters. it keeps everyone happy.

For several years this was sort of co-ordinated through BMorg and the broadcasters list was hosted on a BM.com email server. After 2003 that all changed when the FCC started making threats of an enforcement action over the unlicensed broadcasters on the playa.

FWIW, 5 watts is about 50 times over the legal power output for broadcasting without a license in the FM band. Anything over about 1/10 of a watt is illegal. There are currently no provisions in the FCC rules that allow anyone to get a temp license to broadcast at Burning Man legally in the FM band. The fine is $10,000.00 "per day" of violation. As they say, if you choose to do it, you roll the dice and take your chances.

Most of the decent lower priced FM transmitters come from the UK. Be advised though, that if you order one preassembled, US Customs will may sieze it because it is not a "type accepted" by FCC for sale in the US. Yes this does happen quite often.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:40 am

Did some propogation and sig strength measurements using WTF last year. Surprisingly, we did not have the coverage we did the year before. Whether that was due to equipment degredation, or having the van next to the tower, or using lower power, I don't know.

My thoughts are it would be better, once you have the clear channel authorization, to go ahead and push 5 watts at as high an antenna as you can get, and be sure that antenna element is tuned as close as you can get it to get the best S/N ratio you can. Also, I would recommend checking your power output and reception in various locations throughout town. FOr example - while we plowed the airport with a 5x5 signal, we were fading at the far edge of center camp. Something directionalized us, and it was something we didn't have in '05 - we had solid signal over all of BRC and as far away as at least Empire then (should have checked in Nixon!!)

What I'd love to do is something in the 250-450 meter BC band (AKA by most everyone as AM Radio). 5 watts there will cover, not many people will spend the $$$ to do something there, but it would be cool to do live AM radio out there. Esp. at night when a pyrat station could conceivably get out to Reno or beyond. The quintessential medical show ("Live, from the Heart of Black Rock City, is Dr. Sue, Psychotic therapist, on WTF-AM Radio 69"). Talk/traffic/news (WTF news time is now ended. Today's weather - Bright. Becoming darker in the later evening hours...), changing to 60's Jukebox (The Kernul of Monural, on the Massive Monotone Monster), changing to golden oldies (40's-50's) (Wolverine Jack...) , changing to hyper-liberal right wing talk show hosts (Crush Themall), to Mornings with Doc and Doc. But yeah, *that* would be kewl. Not cheap, a nightmare to build... but kewl!!!

bb

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:10 pm

Heh, Sue, that's great.

Weather:

Sunny and hot today with periods of reduced visibility from blowing dust. Winds variable with gusts up to a zillion miles per hour. Tonite will bring increasing darkness with temperatures dipping into the "really fucking colds". So dress the kiddies warmly and bring in those tender plants.

Today's forcast brought to you by "This Shit" mouthwash. Breath stink? Try This Shit!

Oh, jeez I could write a whole hour of stuff .... I want a radio station but I would really like to produce "Suck Ass TV ... we suck ass so you don't have to."

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:48 pm

Aaaaaa.. Sana-flush cleans your teeth without a brush

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:27 pm

Anything over about 1/10 of a watt is illegal

They changed the regulations for that a few years back I believe. In most cases it's harsher. It's based on signal strength at a certain distance, which 100mW will usually exceed (so I'm told). It means if you live in some valley or lead box or something you can go nuts with more than 100mW, but otherwise you're not within their guidelines. Realistically if you're not interfering with anyone and only using 100mW, no one will ever even know or care though.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:31 pm

100 mw ops is legal, but you won't get out unless you have a high gain antenna way up, and then you'll run afoul of antenna erection regs being within 1/4 mile of a registered airport. Real PITA.

So yeah. You take your chance and roll the dice that the FCC won't enforce against you or you don't do it and protect your amateur radio license against any possible action if they trace your pyrat BRC station back to you.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:35 pm

Looking up some FCC stuff it looks like they did keep with 0.1W and they added a field strength component. Also there is, "...and that the combined length of your antenna and feedline (coaxial cable or other) must not exceed 10 feet."

Regardless, I'm not worried about regulations anyway, it was just starting to sound more organized than I would have expected.

timburly · Post by **timburly** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:23 pm

A shortwave or AM station would be fun from BRC. I know you couldn't get any kind of permit for the AM broadcast band but somone did say you could for somthing in the SW bands? That would be interesting.

The pirate thing would work but since anything in the 88-108 range doesn't have much propagation it stays off the FCC radar. If you however ran a couple KW into the AM bands or SW bands your gonna cause some hell in the FCC office and I bet they would show up the next year at BRC to make sure that didn't happen again.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:56 pm

It is pretty organized. Which is good as you get frequency stability for those who can keep their stations running year after year.

I may take some toys up this year (weight and cost permitting) and do some field studies of 440 meter propogation. I *think* the directional I'm shooting for is roughly Winnemucca (down the tracks) which means prolly a couple "work weekends" to do field research. If I can work out the bugs without clobbering Empire, then it might be an attainable.

My one concern, however, is garnering attention from the FCC by doing something totally stupid (like a 10 KW tuned tower array aimed due south on 770 khz...). Not necessarily only from my standpoint, but I do not want to jeopardize the llc's legal license - which would effectively kabosh the event. Do NOT want that karma on my head. Noooooo way!

Hmmm... where's that tube reseller site on-line... >evil grins< and the industrial generator rentals...

bb

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:27 pm

There may be some multi-gigawatt phased array systems available in the communist block countries. Once used for spy plane and satellite jamming. They are probably not in the USA AM band or FM band either, but then with that much power, who needs a tuner? I think just headphones, or maybe a frying pan would work. License, who needs that? Part of the Apok doom theme...

Go for it!

Used to know some folks back in the high school days that lived close to a 100kw AM station @ 1520khz that could do the saucepan on the stove and get poor fidelity, but you could hear the stuff.

BRBC · Post by **BRBC** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:56 am

Skid's had some issues with web hosting for the k-svert site this year. Here's google's cache of last year's frequency assignment page.
Info for getting on the radio list is on that page as well.

Frequency assignments are generally first-come-first-served, with returning stations having priority on the frequency they occupied previous years.

This'll be our third year broadcasting in BRC and I've been incredibly lucky so far with gear. My biggest technical hurdle is the effect of temperature on transmission line. I've confirmed that really good line makes a *world* of difference out there. That's the place to spend some money. It might not be a huge problem if you're only going about 30 ft. though. Our tower gets the antenna about 48 ft. up with a run on the ground of about 10 feet to the transmitter. The heat really knocks down our ERP around midday.

We run our entire transmission chain on solar, so we've really only considered DC transmitters. So that's what I have experience with at BM. Our primary transmitter is an Italian portable unit from RVR. It's built like a tank. I'll be getting a new backup from Wavemach for this year. Wrong Radio used a custom-built transmitter from them a couple of years back and had great results.

If you drum up some decent equipment you shouldn't have too many problems. You can get more/better advice on the radio-list. It'll be good to know that there's another engineer out there. Something always seems to come up. :)

Burner Radio Stations?

Burner Radio Stations?

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