Generators

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:25 pm

I actually knew about the altitude thing, and the surge (the extra needed for startup). But we specifically bought an a/c that only said it needed 450 Watts. When we tested it using both electric from the house and the generator, it never pulled more than 600 Watts at startup (if memory serves) and then ran at about 400 watts continuous.

I didn't know that trick about the UPS. It so happens I have two--one huge one that is over 800 lbs with all the batteries and a smaller one. We recently moved all of our servers to a data center and I no longer needed a 12 hour battery backup situation. I wouldn't want to haul that big thing to the playa though, and I'll have to check the capacity of the small one--maybe give it an all day test on the generator and see what happens. It would be awesome if I could actually use that little generator. It's easy to pack and except for letting us down with the A/C would buy another one if it ever breaks down.

I was actually thinking of hooking up the batteries to some sort of solar array for power on the playa. But that's a whole lot more homework than I have time for right now.

JK

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:45 am

jkisha wrote:.....I didn't know that trick about the UPS. It so happens I have two--one huge one that is over 800 lbs with all the batteries and a smaller one. We recently moved all of our servers to a data center and I no longer needed a 12 hour battery backup situation. I wouldn't want to haul that big thing to the playa though, .,.,..
JK

Sounds like that battery pack could run light strings when the genny is off.

I dare you Jk, think about how creative you can be with that equipment.

fuck the math and have some fun.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:13 am

jkisha wrote:
I didn't know that trick about the UPS. It so happens I have two--one huge one that is over 800 lbs with all the batteries and a smaller one.

JK

HOLLY SHIT and 800 pound batery pack is a submarine battery!!! You shouldnt need a generator at all if that bastard is charged when you bring it out!!

Yeah electricity is funky stuff. Posed ratings have never been gospel.

mabu · Post by **mabu** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:04 am

StarShineScars wrote:
Captain Goddammit wrote:There is a Chinese knock-off, the Kipor. It's similar and supposedly pretty quiet. In my experience with different small-engine things, the Chinese cheapies tend to be lower quality, not as long lasting, and IMPOSSIBLE to get parts for. But there are people on here who have bought the Kipor and liked it. Maybe it's worth a look. It is a lot cheaper up front.
I did notice that one in my searches and something called a Magna. But you're right the knock-off brands many times are well... cheaper. Most of the reviews for them were not so great.

Does anyone have a good resource for making generators quiet? Like how to attach mufflers or build baffle boxes? If you enclose a generator out on the playa, is there a possibility you could cause it to overheat?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:41 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
jkisha wrote:
I didn't know that trick about the UPS. It so happens I have two--one huge one that is over 800 lbs with all the batteries and a smaller one.

JK
HOLLY SHIT and 800 pound batery pack is a submarine battery!!! You shouldnt need a generator at all if that bastard is charged when you bring it out!!

Yeah electricity is funky stuff. Posed ratings have never been gospel.

LOL I didn't know that. It's actually an array of three 'packs' each with four batteries in each pack; which is then connected to the main UPS. It was originally delivered on palettes. When we moved it we had to take all the batteries out and move them one at a time.

I think they are also what I hear referred to here as 'deep charge' batteries? Maybe not, the entire thing came from APC and is several years old now. I was thinking of at least bringing some of the batteries--like maybe one pack of four batteries. Still thinking about that.

JK

SnowBlind · Post by **SnowBlind** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:29 pm

mabu wrote:If you enclose a generator out on the playa, is there a possibility you could cause it to overheat?

I can most definitely overheat. I recall a story from someone who build a baffle box and it got so hot that the on/off switch on the generator melted. They ended up having to run it out of gas to turn it off.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:37 pm

You can place a fan in your box with the gennie and you won't have any overheating problems,
the question is, where would you plug it in at ?

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:18 pm

I have seen soundoxes tall enough that they dont need a top. Tall enough and it deflects the sound upwards.

penguin · Post by **penguin** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:19 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:You can place a fan in your box with the gennie and you won't have any overheating problems,
the question is, where would you plug it in at ?

Umm, is that a trick question?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:11 am

naw, it's just like sitting in the sail boat, blowing on the sail.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:29 am

SnowBlind wrote:
mabu wrote:If you enclose a generator out on the playa, is there a possibility you could cause it to overheat?
I can most definitely overheat. I recall a story from someone who build a baffle box and it got so hot that the on/off switch on the generator melted. They ended up having to run it out of gas to turn it off.

So it never occurred to anyone to just pull the plug wire...

Hey, another important generator-on-the-playa issue not being mentioned is filters. The playa will really screw up your air and fuel filters, sometimes bad enough that the thing will barely run, certainly bad enough to shorten the unit's lifespan.
I bring spares, and I change them on the playa, as well as the engine oil.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:45 am

Engine oil requirements can vary depending on temp extremes too....make sure your oil is not too thin ....and that it has the right viscosity to take on the heat of operating above 100 degrees. A generator sitting inside a baffle box running the wrong weight of oil in the heat of the day can be a costly screwup.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:50 am

Viscosity can be misleading or meaningless.
You do need to make sure the oil will take the heat.
I would think a good synthetic is justified. (Redline or better)
As long as the oil will take the heat, run the lowest viscosity you can that won't leak out.
And don't forget the cold at night too.

mabu · Post by **mabu** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:51 am

gyre wrote:Does humidity affect cooling?
I forget.

Bear in mind that all inverters have less capacity in heat, unless they are overbuilt to start with.
Most won't tell you that though.

When the better ones say continuous, they mean it.
So a 2000 watt $2000 inverter may actually run at rated power.
On the forums, no one thinks the cheapos can, much less last long.
You don't have to have true sine wave for everything, but a minimal industrial grade is called for.
Usually these are built for direct wiring, but not always.

The better ones are far more efficient and at more power levels and the best ones shut down without a draw.

Do you have any recommendations for quality inverters?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:21 am

gyre wrote:Some are heat sink cooling instead of fan cooling.
Much more stable.
Many are intended for continuous use.

This lists a few better units.
http://www.solardyne.com/inverters.html
http://www.majorpower.com/xantrex/prosine_charger.html

Sealed inverters usa made
http://www.outbackinverters.com/product1.htm

The Outback ones look good.
I would recommend talking to solar companies and check out the electric and solar forums.
They really trash the garbage ones on there.
Sunelco used to have a great fact page on them.
Some have efficiency only in one range.
The final step up is true sine wave.
You may not need that.

Like anything, the industrial grade models are more stable and durable.
Most have to be wired in.
Compare specs.
If one looks too good for the price, it probably is.

It isn't too hard to eliminate the trash.
You might find a bargain on a used one.
If we can help you interpret some of the info, we will.
But the forums are a great way to research, as there is always someone staying up to date on these.

Some include a built in charger, which you may or may not need.
Monitoring systems are extensive on some.
I was looking at one made by Xantrex (Statpower) a while back.
Bottom end of their industrial line.
Just a black box that was hardwired in and had receptacles and breakers.
Their low end line had nothing to do with the company, just imported chinese stuff.
All the industrial was us made.

There are many compact higher end units now, so it's harder to tell by looking.
I wouldn't spend much on one made in china though.
Personally I'd always buy used industrial before new junk.

There is pretty good pseudo sine wave stuff out, but if you plan extensive electronic use, true sine wave may be worth the cost.
If you go high end, it may not cost that much more anyway.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:39 pm

ygmir wrote:naw, it's just like sitting in the sail boat, blowing on the sail.

Or like picking yourself up, ( Only Chuck Norris can do that)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:23 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
ygmir wrote:naw, it's just like sitting in the sail boat, blowing on the sail.
Or like picking yourself up, ( Only Chuck Norris can do that)

and Bugs Bunny

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:00 pm

I built a self-regenerating power supply once, but I had to quit playing with it.
Every week it just kept going faster and faster and faster....

doktorrandom · Post by **doktorrandom** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:48 am

Anyone have experience in hooking up three EU2000 gennies? Seems like three of em in tandem would allow only running one with minimal loads like morning battery charging, and two or three as you approach dinner and other high powered entertainment times. http://durationpower.com/store/index.html Are three quieter on the playa than one open frame type? Research continues.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:17 pm

doktorrandom wrote:Anyone have experience in hooking up three EU2000 gennies? Seems like three of em in tandem would allow only running one with minimal loads like morning battery charging, and two or three as you approach dinner and other high powered entertainment times. http://durationpower.com/store/index.html Are three quieter on the playa than one open frame type? Research continues.

YES......

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:05 pm

I used to work at a store that sold generators... big loud ones, nothing I wish I'd bought... anyway, a customer asked if he didn't want to use the motor, could he just plug it into an outlet. Still scratching my head trying to figure out what he was thinking.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:42 pm

I do that every year with an extension cord and my neighbors gennie at night.

Sgt. Chowder · Post by **Sgt. Chowder** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:10 am

Just Breathe

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:13 am

Huh ????

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:00 pm

ygmir wrote:naw, it's just like sitting in the sail boat, blowing on the sail.

I find pissing off the stern helps as well

griffin · Post by **griffin** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:28 pm

there's a lot of unfortunate crap in this thread, so forgive me for skipping to the end. Hopefully I'm not repeating information.

I bought a Magna generator last year for about half the price of a honda. It's spit out 2000 watts continuous, and peaked at 2400. Cost around $500. Had the same decibel level as a Honda.

The first day of use, the spark plug got gummed up, probably was flooded, and the problem was fixable.

It ran great the rest of the week, and has supplied juice for a few campout parties since with no issues.

I bought it on Amazon, but it looked like the brand was coming to an end. But look around for Magna. They had a sister company, that was slightly higher priced, but still less than Hondas. I'm sorry, but I can't remember what the other brand was called.

Hopefully, this will point you in a direciton.

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:23 pm

The only reason to have a generator on the playa is to keep this sucker running:

http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadgets/ ... nest-drill
for more info. I _need_ this drill.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:16 pm

Now that I took the RV plunge it is also time to buy me a gennie. I'd love a Honda EU2000, especially from what I've read about them but the price tag

So, what are your opinions on Onan and Generac gennies? I've been looking at them through Northern tools catalog. I'm looking for something round bout 3000 watts. Probably the biggest thing I'd be running with it is the A/C unit in the camper. I don't remember the specs on the a/c unit but its on a 19' camper, so it cant be that huge.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:21 pm

remember, it'll take twice the wattage to start the A/C as to run it..........
I've got a 24' trailer, with a roof A/C, and, it takes all my 4Kw to start it.........

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:52 pm

ok, so at least 4000 watts then. And did a search, according to the manufacturer the ac will be either 13500 or 15000 btu's.