Hexacopters with video?

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renolaw
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Hexacopters with video?

Post by renolaw » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:31 pm

Mutant vehicles seems to fit. With the explosive popularity of these air born video platforms, may we expect to see some sort of BRC regulation? there are already reasonable limits on how photography is properly done, but these copter platforms open up a whole new set of questions. BTW, i do not have one, just wondering...

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by renolaw » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:04 pm

forum won't permit an edit, so: reason asking and wondering is yesterday we were out in our back yard and were buzzed by the kid down the street's new toy and thought how will this affect the BRC experience? Whether by law enforcement or well and not so well intentioned attendees/participants.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:29 pm

There is discussion on this already. Without using the term "Hexacopter". I can't think of what term was used.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:32 pm

"Drone" which makes sense, given the popularity of the term at the moment.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:48 pm

I'm moving this over to the Q&A board, since that's a better fit for general preparation topics. Fishy's already pointed out a thread about drone experiences with last year's event. I'll add a link to the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV aka 'drone') policy that was in place for the 2013 event.

As for peoples' feelings about it, I'd say it's pretty similar to the way people feel about photography. If it's done well, and the operator is respectful of both the subject and others in the vicinity of the device, then they're largely accepted (and from what I've seen the great footage is applauded). But if it's not, then it's hated pretty universally. A drone operator buzzing an unsuspecting (or disapproving) crowd is about as welcome as a pervy photog crashing a party to grab t&a shots, with the added consideration that if the drone operator screws up, their machine could end up hurting people.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by renolaw » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:29 pm

thanks for the replies. Interesting topic for sure. i also like the 1 hour edit rule. keeps 'em honest; else mods can just delete the whole thing.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:59 pm

Oh the mods have powers we mere mortals can only dream of... That being said, they don't seem to go on humongous power trips... And a lack of moderation has done terrible things to the board in the past. Always hard to know how to balance things.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Eric » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:03 pm

renolaw wrote:thanks for the replies. Interesting topic for sure. i also like the 1 hour edit rule. keeps 'em honest; else mods can just delete the whole thing.

marko
Mods can delete the whole thing, but we won't unless it's spam or a really awful personal attack on someone. We have our slips (we're only human), but for the most part we try to keep editing to a minimum - this board is very big on "stand by what you wrote".
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:25 pm

renolaw wrote:Mutant vehicles seems to fit. With the explosive popularity of these air born video platforms, may we expect to see some sort of BRC regulation? there are already reasonable limits on how photography is properly done, but these copter platforms open up a whole new set of questions. BTW, i do not have one, just wondering...
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:56 pm

You get 30 minutes to make edits to posts, but deletions or moves will always require the intervention of a moderator or admin. There's no shame in posting additional information or a clarification as a reply.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by VultureChow » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:19 am

ygmir wrote:
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Elliot » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:33 am

Well, I vote against drones. Too dangerous. A quick internet search shows that these things have already struck people around the country.
Just because something is technologically possible, does not automatically mean it ought to be done.

Seems to me, anyone with normal intelligence can understand that these things will crash from time to time.

Sure, I'm all for "Safety Third", but that applies to people who voluntarily take a risk to gain a benefit. It does not apply to striking people at random with an obviously dangerous object.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by GreyCoyote » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:45 am

I'm with Elliot on this one.

Its bad enough we have to deal with our own goobermint spying on us from above. So I dont feel particularly bad ruining a couple of grand worth of some fratboys hardware.

And as to the "we are making video art" crap, I call bullshit. These things are a nuisance and a safety threat. Get one within reach of my camp and I assure you the only "art" being made will be the display of the twisted and broken remains of the drone in center camp.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by FlyingMonkey » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:01 pm

Elliot wrote:Well, I vote against drones. Too dangerous. A quick internet search shows that these things have already struck people around the country.
Just because something is technologically possible, does not automatically mean it ought to be done.

Seems to me, anyone with normal intelligence can understand that these things will crash from time to time.

Sure, I'm all for "Safety Third", but that applies to people who voluntarily take a risk to gain a benefit. It does not apply to striking people at random with an obviously dangerous object.

Especially when you get a bunch of them in a relatively small air space quite possibly using the same frequencies. But I'm torn on allowing drowns. At first I was "Hell no, they are going to a nuisance & invade everyone privacy", then I saw a few very well done videos where they maintained a good altitude & really showed the event from a perspective that nothing else can.

I think if they are going to be allowed then they will need to be controlled/regulated somehow since safety is a real concern. For every 1 good video there will be 5 idiots buzzing people or crashing. There would have to be a way to weed out the flying "fratboys" from the RC enthusiast that are there doing good videography.

The problem is there will always be people that won't register them & plead ignorance when busted.

Maybe some camps will declare their areas "No Fly Zones". How would one enforce that? Hmmmmmm. That could be a whole new thread but I'm thinking an Oxyacetylene poofer would make the pilot think twice or at least maintain a respectable altitude.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by BBadger » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Elliot wrote:Well, I vote against drones. Too dangerous. A quick internet search shows that these things have already struck people around the country.
Just because something is technologically possible, does not automatically mean it ought to be done.

Seems to me, anyone with normal intelligence can understand that these things will crash from time to time.

Sure, I'm all for "Safety Third", but that applies to people who voluntarily take a risk to gain a benefit. It does not apply to striking people at random with an obviously dangerous object.
Shucks Elliot, if we applied that standard at everything in Burning Man we'd be stuck with a pretty boring festival. Yeah, technology is dangerous out there. Accidents occur and can be injurious. That's the nature of everything. Hell, last time I went I was piloting a camp-mate's kite for the first time. Being unfamiliar with sports-kite flying in general (mine were usually single-string types as a kid), I practically dive-bombed some dude at probably 60mph because I wasn't familiar with controlling it. I was so bad at it that I kept running into other kites, and one guy got so fed up with it that he just outright left the area (no, it was not on purpose; I was just really bad at it). So what about those dangerous kites and high winds? Do they go too?

What about those tall towers people can climb up into? Damn. Fall out of those and you can break a bone, snap a neck, or even die. The camp next to ours had this wooden tree-house type thing that we climbed up into to watch the city after a particularly long night. It had a slide out the back that you used to exit the platform up top. While I made it down just fine, my friend got caught on some sharp edge and cut his knee. Holy shit what a liability! We can't have those, or at least not guarded 24/7 with a safety officer up top. Or what about those huge teeter-totters? Slip off that thing and get hit by it and it is all over. You don't see that kind of apparatus at county fairs or local parks, that's for sure.

Then there are those hulking 2-10-ton not-street-worthy vehicles traversing the playa laden with lots of people like a train in India. Sure, they're only (supposed to be) going 5mph, but with all that momentum, if someone falls off and slips under their legs are kaput (if they're lucky)! I remember seeing people trying to jump from our own MV and doing barrel rolls before they came to a talk on the hard playa. NOT FUN! How do they allow that kind of shit to roam around without completely covering the wheels and other dangerous traps for safety, not just aesthetics?

And what bout those drones? Well shit man, they're 30-50ft above peoples' heads! I guess they could come crashing down like a kite, or maybe if they're at eye-level chop someone's eyes. But is the danger really that much more elevated? It's not like drone-operators have an incentive to lose their $500 copter in a crash. Hell, bikes, kites, vehicles, structures, etc. will crash too. In my mind, I think the bigger danger with drones is that people will be watching them and not paying attention to the darktard in the way of their bikes. Then again, it's like that with everything out there.

As with everything, I do think there should definitely be some controls and regulations in place to ensure that people don't get hurt. However, I think these blanket safety arguments against drones are a bit weak if you're not also applying them to every other dangerous thing out on the playa that is also allowed. Also, a cursory internet search is also not proof that this new-fangled technology is inherently dangerous -- or at least to the level of banning it any more than anything that is brought to the playa. If we're going to ban every technology that seems dangerous on the internet, can we please just end the Burning Man festival right now instead of letting it die with a whimper? I don't think we could even attend without some potential technology-calamity affecting people at the event.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by renolaw » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:17 pm

Private drones offer utility. We'll be seeing more and more in the default world as well as on the playa. My larger concern is their use by law enforcement. Searching for lost child or hiker? ok. following a fleeing felon? no problem. Even in military applications i see they will save lives, offer easy to use and cheap surveillance and scouting missions (like, are there bad guys behind that wall/hill?) Thats legit. My larger concern is wholesale law enforcement patrolling, or fishing for violations. Should visual privacy barriers now include a roof? maybe so...

Talk of shooting one down may ironically get the shooter in more trouble than the pilot. Although when Amazon starts drove package delivery, bet downed 'copters will increase LOl

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by FossaFerox » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:18 pm

Badge, with the kites it's a question of flying them where they won't crash into anyone. Flying an attack kite over someone's camp or near a busy intersection is a shitty thing to do. Flying it in open playa is no problem. I would be way more okay with drones if people followed the rules in place and didn't fly over camps/groups of people (Robot Heart, etc)

Both of these things stand apart from the general risk/liability stuff you brought up. With the towers/art/MVs, you assume some amount of risk when you climb it, board it, interact with it, etc. In every instance the person at risk made a decision to be at risk.

With drones someone is choosing to create a hazard for OTHER people rather than creating a hazard for themselves and they are doing it in broad, unpredictable areas. It's similar to the kite dilemma with the added problem of unpredictability from the bystander's point of view. I can at least in theory see you flying your kite and know it's limited to that area. Drones can literally come from anywhere, particularly if a sudden gust throws it a bit and the operator loses contact.

Then you get into the question of people using drones to get pervy footage on top of the hazard issue and it's hard not to hate the things.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Measures call for countermeasures. I'm sure a better more powerful drone could be equipped to catch another drone in mid-air and drag it away... and of course there's always good old electronic countermeasures.
Perhaps a much more powerful transmitter would be a fun way to bring one down, in one piece even. Then you could safely smash it on the ground.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:21 pm

i just got a drone for christmas.


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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by BBadger » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:19 pm

FossaFerox wrote:Badge, with the kites it's a question of flying them where they won't crash into anyone. Flying an attack kite over someone's camp or near a busy intersection is a shitty thing to do. Flying it in open playa is no problem. I would be way more okay with drones if people followed the rules in place and didn't fly over camps/groups of people (Robot Heart, etc)
Well in my case it was in open playa, and quite frankly, I don't think it's really that much better that people have to avoid open areas where kite flyers are just to avoid getting hit. Mutant vehicles are even worse: they're all around on crowded streets, in open playa, everywhere. MVs are also far more dangerous than any drone, even at slow speeds.

Why do we allow these hulking monstrosities to roam our streets, potentially maiming and killing people? Because they're regulated. Because we have rules and liability.
Both of these things stand apart from the general risk/liability stuff you brought up. With the towers/art/MVs, you assume some amount of risk when you climb it, board it, interact with it, etc. In every instance the person at risk made a decision to be at risk.
That can be said for basically everything on the playa. You can get hit by other people on bikes. You can collide with unlit darktards out in the playa. An MV can run you over. The only real distinction between with drones and everything else is that they're in the air as opposed to the ground. In effect, you've assumed some amount of risk by entering Burning Man to begin with, which should also include injury due to drones under the same kind of exceptional circumstances we grant other hazards.
With drones someone is choosing to create a hazard for OTHER people rather than creating a hazard for themselves and they are doing it in broad, unpredictable areas. It's similar to the kite dilemma with the added problem of unpredictability from the bystander's point of view. I can at least in theory see you flying your kite and know it's limited to that area. Drones can literally come from anywhere, particularly if a sudden gust throws it a bit and the operator loses contact.
This is where we need to implement controls, not outright bans. Create an air-traffic control center like we have the DMV. People with these drones should be required to meet certain specifications, such as auto-nav GPS, sufficient battery life, be restricted to certain zones, heights, etc. -- all the kind of stuff we require of MVs because we don't want every person and his crappy bottle-cap covered ATV roaming the playa with impunity. Each drone can be tagged with a special visible "license," or perhaps carry a datalogger to ensure compliance. All of this will help weed out the wannabes from the professionals, just as it does with MVs.

We can have a civil society that allows drones.
Then you get into the question of people using drones to get pervy footage on top of the hazard issue and it's hard not to hate the things.
We could say the same about any cameras being used too. What about those pervy telescopic lenses? Or those tall towers that give people a vantage point to peek into tents? What about all those damn video cameras on every phone people bring into the playa. Nobody is filling out filming permits for those. In the end, it's about the operators, not the tools.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:26 pm

So, when will we see our first law Enforcement drone over the city? Why wouldn't they? My guess is in a year or two.
I figure most respectable people will say how polite and well mannered the L.E.Drone they encountered was. Bet on it.

Said it before, I saw a multi-task-force of LEOs help launch a drone at the Man burn, in the dark, within a crowd they had to make room in, closer than where Rangers were letting me bring my dangerous bike. Was this okay? 'Cause I've mentioned it a half dozen times and no one else says peep. But I'm a crank, I'll let the respectable members of the community get back to hashing out what is allowed and not. Is there any law or anything that would limit L.E.O.s from parking a drone over an area of BRC and recording everything? How many would applaud that?
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by burner von braun » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:42 pm

Did anyone attend the drone conference that BMORG held prior to the event this year? I suspect that these concerns were expressed. I'm guessing that their stance at the moment is a work in progress, much as it is for all of us.

Perhaps an effective compromise would be a policy of 'no drones' for a specific part of the week.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:57 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:So, when will we see our first law Enforcement drone over the city? Why wouldn't they? My guess is in a year or two.
I figure most respectable people will say how polite and well mannered the L.E.Drone they encountered was. Bet on it.

Said it before, I saw a multi-task-force of LEOs help launch a drone at the Man burn, in the dark, within a crowd they had to make room in, closer than where Rangers were letting me bring my dangerous bike. Was this okay? 'Cause I've mentioned it a half dozen times and no one else says peep. But I'm a crank, I'll let the respectable members of the community get back to hashing out what is allowed and not. Is there any law or anything that would limit L.E.O.s from parking a drone over an area of BRC and recording everything? How many would applaud that?
I try and keep out of the law enforcement discussions. I like my privacy. I like my privacy from the authorities. I'm not knowingly doing anything that they would be interested in, although I realize that there exist among law enforcement those who wouldn't care. The law enforcement discussions tend to be heated and non-productive. ymmv
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by GreyCoyote » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:43 pm

BBadger wrote: That can be said for basically everything on the playa. You can get hit by other people on bikes. You can collide with unlit darktards out in the playa. An MV can run you over. The only real distinction between with drones and everything else is that they're in the air as opposed to the ground. In effect, you've assumed some amount of risk by entering Burning Man to begin with, which should also include injury due to drones under the same kind of exceptional circumstances we grant other hazards.
Wow. :shock:

I think you missed the most important point of all. I am in MY camp, with MY people, doing MY thing. I have a reasonable expectation that some doofus with a drone will NOT be placing me or my campmates at risk. I have a reasonable expectation to some degree of privacy. Example: Would you like ME to drive my F350 over YOUR head while you are sleeping in YOUR tent and then claim "exceptional circumstances"? I didn't think so. As a "camper", radical self-reliance means you take responsibility for your camp. It also means that as a "drone operator" you should stay the hell out of everyone elses hair, and not expect to hide under the skirt of "exceptional circumstances" when you crash your drone into someone/thing.

FWIW, MVs don't roll through my camp. Why? Because I SAY SO, and it's roped-off, and because they know they are beyond the scope of what am MV is supposed to be doing.

FWIW, bicycles don't roll through my camp. Why? Because I SAY SO, and it's roped-off, and because they know they are beyond the scope of what a bicycle is supposed to be doing.

For the record, I do NOT "assume the risk" when some asswipe with an airborne Cuisinart INVADES MY SPACE AND TAKES PICTURES WHILE PUTTING ME AT RISK OF INJURY. What I DO assume is I can (and I will) assert my dominion and control over MY SPACE. MY RULES. MY ENFORCEMENT. MY RIGHT. MY SAFETY.

This mindset of using "exceptional circumstances" and "assumed risk" as a dodge has suggested to me something that I completely missed: Perhaps I should buy a drone. Perhaps that drone could be anonymously "gifted" to some reckless and under aged kid who is also being treated for advanced homicidal tendencies. Perhaps it would crash most spectacularly into First Camp, LEO Camp, or into a departing aircraft from 88NV. Perhaps after this happens, everyone would finally pale with shock and horror at the resulting body count. Perhaps the BMORG would finally ban these things inside the City once and for all.

On the flip side of this, I do believe there should be a designated place for those "artsy drone guys" to fly where any potential impact from "exceptional circumstances" would be low and I wouldn't be forced to "assume the risk" of their negligent operation. But that place needs to be away from the thick of the City, away from air traffic, impose clear boundaries and operational limits, and the operator needs to register and tag the drone prior to first flight. (Heck, even MVs get registered and tagged, right?). That way WHEN someone gets hurt, we know who to look for and the operator can be cited, sued, and explain to a jury all about those "exceptional circumstances" and about his new legal theory on how the decedent "assumed the risk" by merely entering BRC, thereby absolving the operator of any duty for safe operation whatsoever. This also helps to keep the next-of-kin from suing the BMOrg as a negligent third party who created constructive liability by permissively allowing the operation of a known dangerous device at their "event" in the desert.

But as Dennis Miller used to say: "that's just my opinion. I could be wrong..." :mrgreen:
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:14 pm

Years and years ago I was a radio geek. One of the most fun times I and some friends had was when we decided to figure out what frequency the Mickey Ds employees headsets were on, as well as the speaker-mic out at the customer order station.
It wasn't that easy. There was also a "PL tone" on the system, an inaudible tone broadcast at same time that unlocked the receivers.
We were able to get on those frequencies and eventually hit the right tones; off to the Mick Ds we went, on a busy Saturday night back when there was "Cruise Night", with hundreds if not a thousand people in their hot rod cars out all night.
It went like this: A Chevelle full of guys would come to the window and order… then instead of hearing the girl in the window, they heard one of us saying something like "Hey fuck you assholes, we don't feel like it"… or they would order 2 cheeseburgers, three fries and two cokes, but we'd interject with "Twelve" and "nine" and "six" so the girl in the window heard "I'd like (twelve) cheeseburgers and (nine) fries and (six) cokes", which she would repeat back at them…. you get the idea, we were young and crazy and had a ball. And there was no way for them to figure out how it was happening.

In an entirely unrelated note… drones are radio controlled.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by burner von braun » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:53 am

From the main Burning Man website..

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... r6PiPdZ5Hk

Edit: ..my apologies, looking back through, I now realize that Trilo already provided this link. Carry on..

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by BBadger » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:39 am

GreyCoyote wrote:Wow. :shock:

I think you missed the most important point of all. I am in MY camp, with MY people, doing MY thing. I have a reasonable expectation that some doofus with a drone will NOT be placing me or my campmates at risk. I have a reasonable expectation to some degree of privacy. Example: Would you like ME to drive my F350 over YOUR head while you are sleeping in YOUR tent and then claim "exceptional circumstances"? I didn't think so. As a "camper", radical self-reliance means you take responsibility for your camp. It also means that as a "drone operator" you should stay the hell out of everyone elses hair, and not expect to hide under the skirt of "exceptional circumstances" when you crash your drone into someone/thing.
Wow. :shock:

I think you missed the points in the subsequent reply I made above: 1) I'm NOT advocating free-reign access for these drones, 2) I don't think drones should be outright banned because of hysterical fears that are ignored for other equally or more hazardous things, and 2) I WANT regulations to be put in place just as many other hazardous things at Burning Man (e.g. mutant vehicles). My reply to Elliot really only addresses point (2) above: this unfortunate hysteria people are having with this new-fangled technology that they don't understand. Still...

Yeah, as with everything, I do expect you to assume some risk when you're in a potentially hazardous environment; however, don't think that I'm deferring responsibility from these vehicle operators. An MV that suddenly loses control of its brakes and plows into a camp is indeed an exceptional circumstance -- just as we should consider some drone getting tossed by a huge gust from mid-playa into the the city. Yeah, you're accepting that risk because cursory inspections only go so far. Both operators would be liable for whatever damages that are caused, even if though they'd be considered accidents. More important, just because we call these things accidents does not mean we don't take measures to reduce that risk as much as possible -- which is exactly what I'm advocating.
FWIW, MVs don't roll through my camp. Why? Because I SAY SO, and it's roped-off, and because they know they are beyond the scope of what am MV is supposed to be doing.

FWIW, bicycles don't roll through my camp. Why? Because I SAY SO, and it's roped-off, and because they know they are beyond the scope of what a bicycle is supposed to be doing.
Sorry bud, but you're harboring some mistaken illusions about your "rights" and who or what is enforcing them. Taken alone, your words and your "ropes" do jack shit. Hell, people can already wander into your camp with bikes or on foot without major repercussions (as in legally binding). As for vehicles, MVs can indeed plow over your camp with impunity, as I doubt you've ringed your camp with dragon's teeth to prevent it.

So what really is the "power" that keeps these people doing what they're "supposed" to be doing? Laws and regulations. Again, what I'm advocating.
For the record, I do NOT "assume the risk" when some asswipe with an airborne Cuisinart INVADES MY SPACE AND TAKES PICTURES WHILE PUTTING ME AT RISK OF INJURY. What I DO assume is I can (and I will) assert my dominion and control over MY SPACE. MY RULES. MY ENFORCEMENT. MY RIGHT. MY SAFETY.
No, you do assume that risk, just as you already have in past years by just showing up at the event. Why? Because right now, there are no rules in place that grant you any rights. That's right. You have literally no recourse against drone operators at Burning Man, or anywhere for that matter, if they haven't directly injured you or your property. Stow your "reasonable expectations" of privacy too: do you have that in writing? Is that claim backed by BMOrg? Nope. No matter how much you stomp your foot down, no matter how many ALL-CAPS proclamations you make, you've got nothing to back up your "rights" other than the slingshot shown above -- which you'd probably be responsible for damages in court if you attempted it.

Oh dear.

So shut the fuck up and hear me out.
This mindset of using "exceptional circumstances" and "assumed risk" as a dodge has suggested to me something that I completely missed: Perhaps I should buy a drone. Perhaps that drone could be anonymously "gifted" to some reckless and under aged kid who is also being treated for advanced homicidal tendencies. Perhaps it would crash most spectacularly into First Camp, LEO Camp, or into a departing aircraft from 88NV. Perhaps after this happens, everyone would finally pale with shock and horror at the resulting body count. Perhaps the BMORG would finally ban these things inside the City once and for all.
Replace "drone" above with "mutant vehicle." Gee, how do things change in this circumstance? What makes one different than the other? The fact that one is in the air, and the other on the ground? I'd take the air drone over the multi-ton ground vehicle any day in terms of raw havoc each could produce.

But that's not really the point. What is the real distinction here?

Why would someone trust a MV at Burning Man over a drone -- at least at this stage? The distinction is that mutant vehicles are regulated at Burning Man. There's a DMV that ensures that MVs are not allowed to run around at unsafe speeds or with unsafe lighting, or even to make much noise in certain areas of the city. Yeah, that's right, the only thing preventing MVs from running people over in the same manner as drones dive-bombing people from the skies is that there are rules in place (with repercussions) keeping things safe, and keeping things within the standards we want to keep at Burning Man. It's not you and your lame ropes and loud proclamations.

And so, here I am, advocating this same kind of thing for drones.

Notice how I mention the need for air-traffic controllers and the need for permits just as we do with MVs. I'm even advocating the requirement for auto-pilot systems to prevent drones from crashing when out of range of the operator, and for position tracking devices to ensure that drones do not stray into forbidden zones. All of these things because, as I'll repeat again:

We can have a civil society that allows drones.

But I'll add to that: we can only have a civil society if we don't give in to hysteria whenever we encounter some new concept or technology that challenges our current expectations and boundaries.
On the flip side of this, I do believe there should be a designated place for those "artsy drone guys" to fly where any potential impact from "exceptional circumstances" would be low and I wouldn't be forced to "assume the risk" of their negligent operation. But that place needs to be away from the thick of the City, away from air traffic, impose clear boundaries and operational limits, and the operator needs to register and tag the drone prior to first flight. (Heck, even MVs get registered and tagged, right?). That way WHEN someone gets hurt, we know who to look for and the operator can be cited, sued, and explain to a jury all about those "exceptional circumstances" and about his new legal theory on how the decedent "assumed the risk" by merely entering BRC, thereby absolving the operator of any duty for safe operation whatsoever. This also helps to keep the next-of-kin from suing the BMOrg as a negligent third party who created constructive liability by permissively allowing the operation of a known dangerous device at their "event" in the desert.
If only you had scrolled down.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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GreyCoyote
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:16 am

BBadger wrote: So shut the fuck up and hear me out.
Ah, I see you have met my ex-wife. :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
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Token
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by Token » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:55 am

Exceptional situation and assumption of risk
Those pretty much grant me the right to shoot down any motherfucking flying crap I can reach, right?

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Post by trilobyte » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:33 am

I'm less bothered by the risk of someone with a drone being a jerk than I am with the reality of a lot of the drone footage guys posting youtube videos using them to advertise their commercial drone cam and videography businesses. It's great if that's your art (after all, there's no problem with professional musicians/producers/DJ's from performing on the playa), but the commercial branding on the published videos is annoying.

People can use drones to be jerks or shoot commercial footage (which is what BMan vids they stamp with their logos is) or all kinds of other potentially unacceptable things. I don't think that means they should be banned altogether. If you think about it, most everything about Burning Man and what's used to make it could be used for nefarious purposes ("look out, that guy's got a hammer!")... While there's a potential for things to be done badly, there's also a potential for things to be done wonderfully.

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