Wind on the playa?

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RudolphDiesel
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Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:34 pm

Burgin here, hence the question: just how common is wind on the playa? I am in the planning phase of our 2016 setup and I was thinking I would either bring 3 230w solar panels, or I'll bring one solar panel and a wind turbine. And of course buffered with with a 100ah battery to power all of the electronics we are going to "need"

The advantage of the wind turbine would be that it has a chance of making power even at night time, I just don't know how common wind is. Here in Houston, wind is something one cannot count on.

I already have the solar panels, they just have not found their way up on our roof, I have the battery, so that would be fine, but OTOH those panels are so huge. And again, we will not be coming in a RV, so I will have to put a mast into the playa ground for the wind turbine.

Knowing what the situation is most of the time (I know nobody can say for sure) would certainly help.

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lucky420
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by lucky420 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:12 pm

It gets windy. Windy as fuck sometimes. If it's not windy during the heat of the day it most likely will get a little breezy towards evening and then hopefully die down. Even a seemingly slight breeze 10 mph can seem windier out there as there are not many big solid wind blockers...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Elliot » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:13 pm

RudolphDiesel wrote:... just how common is wind on the playa? ...
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Sorry -- that was rude. You deserve a proper answer.

And the answer is that there is almost always a breeze, and gusts of 80 MPH are not uncommon. White-outs (dust, not snow!) happen almost daily.

Early morning is your best bet for still air.

Most likely there is quite a bit about wind in the First-Timer information.
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RudolphDiesel
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:45 pm

Elliot wrote:
RudolphDiesel wrote:... just how common is wind on the playa? ...
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Sorry -- that was rude. You deserve a proper answer.

And the answer is that there is almost always a breeze, and gusts of 80 MPH are not uncommon. White-outs (dust, not snow!) happen almost daily.

Early morning is your best bet for still air.

Most likely there is quite a bit about wind in the First-Timer information.
So, you are telling me: leave the solar panel at home? Use the wind turbine? Goo to know, then one panel will be all we need.

Thanks!

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:31 pm

No I don't think that's what he's telling you. He's just saying it can get really windy at times.
You see almost no wind turbines at burning man. Of the "alternative" power sources, solar is far more common.
But really, generators are the way to go at Burning Man, they are by far the most prevalent, reliable and practical.
I wouldn't go with just turbines in Black Rock City.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Popeye » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:15 pm

Some things to think about for a wind turbine.:
  • Noise- yes they are nolsy
  • How are you going to anchor it?
  • How high do you need to be to get get good power from the wind?
  • No, not that kind of high. IIRC you need to be 30' above nearby buildings, etc.
  • What output will you have? AC or DC?
  • What voltage regulator will you use?
  • Having "plenty" of wind is not enough. IIRC you need an 8-10 mph average.
  • Someone WILL climb it.
Go solar.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:58 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:No I don't think that's what he's telling you. He's just saying it can get really windy at times.
You see almost no wind turbines at burning man. Of the "alternative" power sources, solar is far more common.
But really, generators are the way to go at Burning Man, they are by far the most prevalent, reliable and practical.
I wouldn't go with just turbines in Black Rock City.
Thats the problem with me. Sometimes I am just not up for the "sensible" solution. I know a 1000W generator would do just fine for our needs, but then ... a gas driven generator is just sooo wrong for me if I can do anything that does not burn fuel. I may just have to bring those 4 panels I was thinking about in the beginning. A 100Ah deep cycle battery should be able to get us through the night (potentially two yurts with lights and swamp cooling. And then during the day the 4 x 200W panels should have no problems recharging that battery.

And you are right: panels are quieter.

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:59 pm

Ulisse wrote: Go solar.
Good advice. I intend to follow.

Thanks

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:46 pm

I do wanna say, don't let practically deter you from doing whatever crazy shit you think is interesting or fun! If you want to run a wind turbine because you just plain wanna, by all means, bring it! It'll be cool.
The generator or solar are just practical suggestions to get you reliable power.
But it's burning man, keep it interesting!
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by ygmir » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:06 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:I do wanna say, don't let practically deter you from doing whatever crazy shit you think is interesting or fun! If you want to run a wind turbine because you just plain wanna, by all means, bring it! It'll be cool.
The generator or solar are just practical suggestions to get you reliable power.
But it's burning man, keep it interesting!
perfectly said.
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Elliot
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Elliot » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:02 pm

Yeah, Herr Diesel, it was just that it seemed amusing to this jaded several-times Burner that you didn't know about the famous wind. But everything takes learning. Aller anfang ist schwer -- if I remember my high school German.

So... my first instinct was wind power, but there are good arguments against that, as we have already learned. I would not like to listen to a whistling turbine next door. And yes, some drunk hippie WILL climb it.

I have no experience with solar, but you should expect that the Dust will cover the panel(s) and need to be cleaned off rather regularly.

Keep learning!
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sadie
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by sadie » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:13 am

I have used solar with great success for the past two years. I have one 100W panel and one 105ah deep cycle battery.
It has run my swamp cooler, charged my tricycle motor battery, charged my camera battery, run a small fan overnight and played
small music devices without blinking.
The panel gets dusty, but is easy to wipe off a couple of times during the week.
I think you would be ok without bringing all of your panels.
If all else fails, there are tons of people/camps with generators that are willing to share a little power if you need a little boost.
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some seeing eye
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:26 am

The Alternative Energy Zone Village http://ae-zone.org/ has an old school email exploder (which exposes email addresses - use a throwaway). You can see how active it is. Did ePlayan Pink have a wind turbine in their camp?

You should design your system to the Washoe county building code max wind speed for safety reasons. And as time goes on, you may add batteries.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by asr9754 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:48 pm

Adding 2 more cents, yes its windy, unpredictably so, it can be gusty and come from all directions at any time. There are trends (morning usually calmer) but it varies alot from hour to hour and day to day. When it's windy, it's often erratic and not consistent moderate wind. But also, it varies alot!

I've been curious about wind power, please post a pic of your design if you decide to use a turbine.

We use solar, a couple 100W panels and deep cycle batteries. It works fine, but we have run out of power on some busy nights at camp (lighting, stereo, etc). Use LED bulbs and educate your camp mates where is the off switch, so the last person up can turn off the power. Drunkees like to leave things on all night....

And wipe down the panels daily. I'd recommend adding 1 (fully charged) deep cycle battery as a backup. 2 > 1 !

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Tiahaar » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:57 pm

RudolphDiesel wrote:
I already have the solar panels, they just have not found their way up on our roof, I have the battery, so that would be fine, but OTOH those panels are so huge. And again, we will not be coming in a RV, so I will have to put a mast into the playa ground for the wind turbine.
Do you have a wind turbine already too? Would be cool to see what kind you're thinking of. I have one that I bring but haven't put it up the last couple years.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by BBadger » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:01 am

RudolphDiesel wrote:Thats the problem with me. Sometimes I am just not up for the "sensible" solution. I know a 1000W generator would do just fine for our needs, but then ... a gas driven generator is just sooo wrong for me if I can do anything that does not burn fuel. I may just have to bring those 4 panels I was thinking about in the beginning. A 100Ah deep cycle battery should be able to get us through the night (potentially two yurts with lights and swamp cooling. And then during the day the 4 x 200W panels should have no problems recharging that battery.
Do you already own the panels, or are planning on using them the rest of the year? To me, the investment in solar should only be made if you're using them all the time the rest of the year. They're not something that should be bought exclusively for Burning Man. Otherwise, investing in a nice Honda EU generator (because that's the only generator line you should buy) would provide more utility and versatility as something that is used more intermittently.

From what I could price on the net, 200W panels go for about $300/pc, so at 4x you're looking at $1,200 for just the panels. For that you could get a Honda EU2000i, which is quiet, fuel efficient, and a good brand. It also gives you enough power for bigger and brighter projects, as well as more power-hungry camp fixtures (music systems, extra lights, etc.) in the future -- something a battery bank + solar will struggle with.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Meat Hunter » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:59 am

Generators Direct have Honda 2000i generators for on sale (on line) for $899.

Also, there are no sales tax or shipping charge. $899 is the total price.

I appreciate your concern. In my opinion, for your needs/application and more on the playa, this generator is the best and most cost effective way for you to go.

It will most probably last you for the rest of your life and there will be so many more things down the road that you can use it for. When your power goes off (and one day it will go off) you will have lights and you can keep your refrigerator(s) and more running.

For so many things, you will thank yourself many times over.

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:37 am

It all depends on what your motives are.
If you want what works best, hands-down it's the Honda EU2000. Those are what I use and by the way, that's the regular price at Mayberrys all the time. And consider that you can resell an EU2000 for most of your money back.
But I'm pretty sure that's not what you have in mind.
If the whole thing to you is to do something different that you find interesting, do the wind turbine.
If you already own the whole solar setup and your power needs are really low, bring that.

I think if you do the wind turbine the "cool factor" will be pretty high but you probably should have another system as well if you are concerned with having a reliable supply. As others said, the wind comes and goes.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Ratty » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:07 am

You bring a windmill. I'll bring rain gear and an umbrella. Then we will be guaranteed of perfect weather. Don't anyone wash your car before coming.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:44 pm

Ratty wrote:You bring a windmill. I'll bring rain gear and an umbrella. Then we will be guaranteed of perfect weather. Don't anyone wash your car before coming.
Hmm, not sure if this is worth $600 to me. Maybe I should stick with the 4 x 200W panels I already have.

Now, I just need to create a stand for those.

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:18 pm

Maybe I misunderstood, if you don't already have a wind turbine and aren't thinking of bringing one because you are into them for your own hobby reasons, you just thought of it because it seemed like a practical power solution, well... DON'T!
Do the solar if you are against generators, and do the generator if you want the best, most reliable and cost-effective solution. And if you do the generator, get the Honda EU2000.

Or better yet, sneak an extension cord off the back of Doc Pyro's RV, it'll be parked at Barbie Death Camp.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by RudolphDiesel » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:26 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Maybe I misunderstood, if you don't already have a wind turbine and aren't thinking of bringing one because you are into them for your own hobby reasons, you just thought of it because it seemed like a practical power solution, well... DON'T!
Do the solar if you are against generators, and do the generator if you want the best, most reliable and cost-effective solution. And if you do the generator, get the Honda EU2000.

Or better yet, sneak an extension cord off the back of Doc Pyro's RV, it'll be parked at Barbie Death Camp.
Thanks. I guess I will just do the solar panels. I have those in the garage, and yes I am against gennys

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:56 pm

i would not rely on the wind.

i use a giant round wheel and a steady supply of gerbils, as they get dusty and need to be replaced often...also you'll need to Gere up the wheel in order to provide enough power for your needs.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:33 pm

RudolphDiesel wrote: I am against gennys
Wait a minute -- your chosen username is RUDOLPH DIESEL and you're against generators??
Inquiring minds want to know...
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i would not rely on the wind.

i use a giant round wheel and a steady supply of gerbils, as they get dusty and need to be replaced often...also you'll need to Gere up the wheel in order to provide enough power for your needs.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:07 am

I don't know why anyone would oppress a bunch of gerbils when they have a handy supply of sparkle ponies available. :?
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:16 am

FIGJAM wrote:I don't know why anyone would oppress a bunch of gerbils when they have a handy supply of sparkle ponies available. :?
An officer and a gentleman, would never oppress gerbils.
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:35 am

A pirate and a scallywag wood!!! 8)
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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:12 am

.

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Re: Wind on the playa?

Post by Aurelia » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:24 am

This dickthing thread is very fun for a genuine Sparklepony to read .

xoA.

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