Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

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swaybreeze
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Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:04 pm

hi all. i need a dependable power source to run a low watt medical device (cpap). i do not want to use generator or solar recharging. i can invest in a UPS or 2, but would like to know if anyone has had experience with one on playa. i am looking at ones similar to this: UPS 2 IN 1 features: 500W UPS, 2 120V AC outlets, 4 USB charging ports up to 6.2A, 4 12V DC power ports up to 10A, 12V 26Ah / 288WH lithium rechargeable battery, it says that i is 26ah and i may need 2 or a larger one to get me through the entire event. but key here is it is a UPS. just looking for input on others' experience with UPS. thank you!
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some seeing eye
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:19 pm

I would strongly suggest you make the acquaintance of the mobility camp for medical charging as well as Snow Koan Solar for gift charging. You need a way to get your power system from your camp to them for charging, like a wagon towed by a bike. Your medical equipment has a specific power requirement over specific hours, with a safety margin. Lithium batteries are very sensitive to high temperatures charging and discharging.

Likely there are ePlayans with medical electrical needs who have solved this.

It's not a casual question.
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swaybreeze
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:01 pm

some seeing eye,

thank you! I will search out the camps you mentioned. :) feedback from others is always appreciated!

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby Joeln » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:26 pm

Hi Swaybreeze,
I'm trying to figure out the same issue. One thing you may have figured out is that the humidifier is the part of your CPAP that uses the most power. If you can forego using the humidifier it can make the difference between a battery system being able to support 8 hours sleep or not. My machine is a resmed airsense 10 and it says it needs 24 VDC and 3 amps. I bet that it's probably less than 1 amp if I'm not using the humidifier.

As an electronics person I know it is extremely inefficient to use a battery UPS (which is basically a type of inverter) system to convert the battery voltage from 12 VDC to 120 VAC, then the power brick for my CPAP in turn converts the 120 VAC back to 24 VDC.

To me there are two simpler ways to do this;
1) A generator - one of the little baby 1000 watt units, they are super quiet and if they are only running your CPAP they will run for many many hours on a tank of fuel. The honda and yamaha ones are expensive (but worth it) and the off-brand ones can be had for around 400. (also check out used name brand units.)
2) Get someone with electrical skills to hook your CPAP to a pair of deep cycle batteries which produce 24VDC voila! This is cheap, maybe $175 for two batteries. They are heavier than lithium but much cheaper for the power capacity. Then you also have to deal with charging them up. With a pair of 75 AH deep cycle batteries you could go two nights between charges running your humidifier or 4 nights running dry.
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:01 pm

Thanks Joeln! an AGM or deep cycle batteries are the alternate plan. i do want to avoid the whole generator thing.... yes, no humidifier use it does truly drain things fast! any experience with an AGM battery?

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some seeing eye
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Eplaya has a search in the upper right hand area or mobile pulldown.

Google search of ePlaya is better than the built in BBS search. Especially for short search terms.

So you can Google search site:eplaya.burningman.com cpap

EPlaya also has a private message system. no guarantee of replies, but there might be cpap/other medical experiences that way.

Welcome to ePlaya! Sometimes there is good information here. Much better than other social media options.
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby Papa Bear » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:59 pm

I have a Phillips CPAP - I just picked up a deep cycle battery, the 12V cigarette-lighter-style cord available for the CPAP, and a cheap clip-on cigarette lighter socket adapter. You can get that much cheaper than the system you linked.

Can't say exactly how long it lasts, since I had access to a charger and do use my humidifier.

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby ygmir » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:06 am

I use a Phillips res med 10. it uses 12v.
I got a 12v cord with battery (lighter or clips) end, and go straight to a 12v car battery.
I made a passive humidifier, so unhook the attached, powered unit and run through the passive, which seems to work just fine.
I get several nights from a standard heavy duty car battery.
I use a solar panel to charge the battery during the day. and if charge is too low, use a backup charger/generator.
you can also start your vehicle and jumper cable charge, if necessary.
The suggestions for the camps around that offer charging help are also good ideas.

Humidifier:.
5 gallon bucket with lid. PVC "intake" fitting, that goes to near the bottom of the bucket, where I put an air plenum to divert airflow over a wet towel scrunched up on the bottom. I pour a couple of cups of water in there. the towel soaks them up and provides lots of surface area via folds. the air is blown down and over the towel and the plenum keeps it there a little via deflection of flow. The outlet is in the top, via pvc again (3/4 or a1/2 inch pvc matches hose fittings), and to the mask.
I open the bucket and let it air dry, every day. I also disinfect/clean the towel and bucket every few days. It seems to work well for me, with the added bonus of not breathing any dust all night, as the humidifier assembly seems to catch any dust that makes it past the filter.
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Token
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby Token » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:46 am

swaybreeze wrote:hi all. i need a dependable power source to run a low watt medical device (cpap). i do not want to use generator or solar recharging.


Although I do not know the reasons for the aversion to generators or solar, if I was reliant on an electronic device to keep me alive while I sleep, I would have a triple redundant system in place day one.

At a minimum, I would go with two 100Ah AGM batteries. The big heavy lead-acid guys.

Then charge them up at one of the camps already listed. Might be good to reach out ahead of time and explain your needs.

The 200Ah total could run 4 days or more based on load you describe and also depending on hours of sleep you get. Having two batteries gives you flexibility on when to recharge.

The other option is to have two 50Ah batteries in parallel and a couple 50W solar panels + charge controller. This would run perpetually at that time of year for an 8-hour nightly sleep schedule. I'd bring a spare charge controller as a backup.

Good luck.

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby some seeing eye » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:23 am

ePlaya works!

Let me say that I am not associated with the current Mobility Camp - they rock. They are on ePlaya from time to time. Their mission includes charging wheel chairs. They are on the BORG power grid. But I cannot say if they have a mission of medical device charging. Contact them. It would also be a good idea to contact Snow Koan in advance if you seek their services.
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Canoe
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby Canoe » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:27 am

One of the things that may help while using a CPAP or related device is to have the environment you're in have a humidity level closer to what you're used to, and to reduce dust in the air.

One of figjam's three DIY swamp-cooler designs would likely be just the thing. Very effective, easy to build, easy and reliable to use, and when using the recommended components their power usage is well known. The swamp coolers intake fresh outside air and produce cooled moist dust-free air; as they push that cooled moist dust-free air into your structure, that incoming air pushes out and replaces the existing hot dry dusty air. Over time, even the indoor dust you stir up gets removed as the inside air is pushed out. Great for those that need a more humid or dust-free air. And you get cooling (why most people use them), so you get more quality sleep.

If you're not familiar with them:
  • get an overview by taking a look at the first few pages at viewtopic.php?f=280&t=33842
  • then go to the last page in that thread and work your way towards the front, so you get to see the latest figjam recommendations as to fans, pumps, pads, etc..
A fair number of people like to substitute components or change the design. Problem is, there's a lot to why/how the designs work so well, so most end up shooting themselves in the foot, typically in multiple ways. So while modifying things can be fun if you're into that, or if you think that a component or detail doesn't really need to be that way, that is a really really Bad Idea if you want/need one to work effectively and reliably on the playa - stick to his proven Playa-Tested©)'( designs.

If you need help sourcing components, or in understanding how to build one, or in choosing which design you need for the size of your structure, then ask away on that thread.
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maladroit
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby maladroit » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:29 pm

If you would like even more advice than above, there are many descriptions of CPAP power setups available in older ePlaya posts (accessible through the search function).

swaybreeze
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:47 pm

ygmir, thank you for the information. i have same sort of cpap. since lithium seems to unpopular, due to not holding a charge, i may forgo that and stick to batteries. appreciate the info on the passive humidifier. :)

swaybreeze
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:47 pm

maladroit wrote:If you would like even more advice than above, there are many descriptions of CPAP power setups available in older ePlaya posts (accessible through the search function).


maladroit, thank you. yes, i had been through most of those already. the lithium seemed like a better alternative for me.

swaybreeze
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:49 pm

Hi Canoe, good info, appreciate it. i did ok last year on the lack of humidity, the problem was keeping things charged, but that seems the universal challenge. :)

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:54 pm

thank you, some seeing eye. i did investigate Mobility camp and Snow Koan. they are not in the business of personal power charging. my campmates would be my first place to look for support if needed. i made it through most of last year without due to a failed reliable power source and hope this year, i'll have a truly reliable source(s) and backups worked out.

swaybreeze
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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:57 pm

Thanks Token!

good advice.
it is looking as if best bet is to go with batteries and i'm big on redundant, backups, and over-supply, too. :)

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby swaybreeze » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:58 pm

hi all, want to provide feedback on what i ended up doing and how it worked out. i was on playa 7 nights. i brought 2 lithium UPS batteries. diff brands, but both very similar. #! - Chafron 31AH - CF-UPS018 346WH Portable UPS Uninterrupted Power Supply(Pure Sine Wave) Lithium Battery with Car Jump Starter,Grounded U.S. Standard Outlets -Orange. #2 EasyFocus 21AH 7lb 500W 288WH Backup Portable Generator Solar Power Source Power Inverter UPS 26000mah Li-on Battery Power Supply Powerhouse Charged by Solar/AC Outlet/Cars with 3 AC & 4 DC 12V & 4 USB Ports. both worked great even in the extra hot heat. no apparent power loss in the heat of 4 days driving out to BM nor while there. i had tested each before going and with un-humidified cpap, both used ~21% of the 100% max charge for a night. i found this same to be true while on playa. on playa was not using my normal capa but a Z1 travel cpap; which had the same energy usage ratings as my at-home cpap. the larger Charfon lasted 4 nights with a little power left. the EasyFocus lasted 3 nights. i was covered. there were also a couple naps thrown in there. and i slept 6-9 hours a night. i did not use the UPSes for anything else, just for the cpap. i had other large chargers for cell phone, etc.

next year, i'll plan to bring 3 just to be covered with extra in case needed.. the Chafron has a solar option so i may get a panel to use to recharge it if needed. the lithium UPSes is a more expensive option but i was not comfortable with hauling gas or propane and running generator to recharge marine or the like, batteries. appreciated all the information everyone shared to help me make a decision., hope all had a great burn!

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Re: Lithium UPS - experience with use on playa?

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:15 pm

Something I don't like about the UPSes I've owned is that they beep while on battery power.
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