cooling your tent or van

[FIGJAM]

I think any filter fine enough to do any good would just clog up.

Filter with shade clothe and treat with a little bleach should be fine.

Connie, Ive got this pump that I dont need...

http://www.discount-pumps.biz/low_voltage_pumps.htm

Its 12volt, but its alternating current so you would have to use your inverter.

Will this work for your backup playa pump?

[kman]

we might (*MIGHT*) use treated (and somewhat "clean" grey water - no icky meat cooler water), but I might be inclined to buy ice and melt it before I went that far (expensive, but clean).

I wonder what the difference is between stream water that probably had cows and/or deer or other animals pooping and peeing in it, and possibly dying in it, etc., and shower water with human skin cells and bodily fluids? If grey water is treated properly, like when you are backpacking and using stream water, it could be ok...

This is an interesting read on the subject:

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/water.shtml

We were going to attach a filter to our reserve tank, but it got too cumbersome and the filter I have doesn't look like it would remove as many microorganisms as bleach or boiling, so I'm not going to bother with it.

Moving streams can clean themselves of many impurities just by flowing for a distance over rocky ground. Particulates settle out, the movement (especially with white water) breaks things up, volatile compounds evaporate. All sorts of goodness.

And yet you still need to clean the heck out of it before drinking.

Worse, gray water from people can have any number of chemicals in it that you don't necessarily want to drink... everything from soap, to bacterial contamination in food waste, to saliva and spit and toothpaste, hair, skin cells... without a combination of serious filtering and some sort of chemical decontamination (probably chlorine), I don't see it as particularly safe.

I wouldn't trust it, personally. There are easier and safer ways of dealing with gray water... and bringing extra water for the swamp cooler seems like a lot less hassle than going through a multi-stage preparation process to clean the gray water to the point where it's reasonably safe to use in the cooler.

[kman]

I think any filter fine enough to do any good would just clog up.

Filter with shade clothe and treat with a little bleach should be fine.

Connie, Ive got this pump that I dont need...

http://www.discount-pumps.biz/low_voltage_pumps.htm

Its 12volt, but its alternating current so you would have to use your inverter.

Will this work for your backup playa pump?

12v AC? How does that work?

[FIGJAM]

[ConnieH]

Moving streams can clean themselves of many impurities just by flowing for a distance over rocky ground. Particulates settle out, the movement (especially with white water) breaks things up, volatile compounds evaporate. All sorts of goodness.

And yet you still need to clean the heck out of it before drinking.

Worse, gray water from people can have any number of chemicals in it that you don't necessarily want to drink... everything from soap, to bacterial contamination in food waste, to saliva and spit and toothpaste, hair, skin cells... without a combination of serious filtering and some sort of chemical decontamination (probably chlorine), I don't see it as particularly safe.

I wouldn't trust it, personally. There are easier and safer ways of dealing with gray water... and bringing extra water for the swamp cooler seems like a lot less hassle than going through a multi-stage preparation process to clean the gray water to the point where it's reasonably safe to use in the cooler.

I hear you...the idea of inhaling grey water, especially in a sealed yurt, gives me the heebie-jeebies, so it's unlikely we'll even go there. We produce very little grey water to be useful anyway. I'd feel more comfortable if there was a way to test grey water before and after treatment, but like you said, bringing extra water is a lot less hassle.

Figgy, if you really don't need the pump and don't mind bringing it along, I'd love to have it as my backup! I'm hoping I won't need a backup at all, but I like to prepare for the worst. Thank you so much for offering

My Scythe fan arrived...that thing is awesome! The noise isn't too bad either, very tolerable IMO. Can't wait to do a final test this weekend

[kman]

Its a 12vac pump with a wall wort. Made no sense to me either.

I cut the wort off and hooked it to the battery.

It did a half turn and stopped.

Reconnected the wall wort and plugged it in to the wall, worked fine, go figure?

I'm thinking it's a typo. I can't possibly see how something designed for 12v AC wouldn't be fried by feeding it 10x the voltage.

[FIGJAM]

[FIGJAM]

I dont think any of the fans we are testing are as loud as a window air conditioner.

[kman]

I dont think any of the fans we are testing are as loud as a window air conditioner.

Not even close.

My swamp cooler is finally about 99% done. I just have to pick up some clamps from Harbor Freight and I'm finished.

The biggest challenges have been connecting the duct to the top of the lid in a way that still allows the lid to be removed, and connecting the duct to the wall of the yurt.

I solved the yurt interface issue pretty handily, using another 5-gal bucket with the bottom cut off, slid into a circle hole in the yurt wall. The flexible AC ducting I'm using fits perfectly inside the bucket... a little circle of tape around the outside and I'm set. Close the duct off at any time simply by putting a lid on the bucket. VERY pleased with that solution.

The bucket-lid to duct connection has been the thorny one. I've come with (I hope) a workable solution, but I'll need to improve the design for future use. A variation on Figgy's plastic bowl over the fan solution, I picked up a plastic mixing bowl from the 99 cent store and trimmed the ring around the circumference to fit over the bucket lid. I'll tape the duct onto the bowl (I wish there was a better way, but this insulated AC duct is big and kinda unwieldy), which is ok but not perfect, and then hold the bowl to the lid with four spring clamps, which should be fine. I may squirt a ring of silicon RTV around the lid as a gasket of sorts, not that 100.00% airtight is absolutely critical, since the air will prefer to go through the easy, open 6" internal duct and into the yurt. Since the lid needs to flex in order to be opened and add water, I couldn't use any sort of fixed, rigid faster. And unlike Figgy's single 120mm fan in the center, allowing a duct to seal in the interior of the lid only, with two 120mm fans, you need to go to the very edge of the lid, so lid-flex is impeded.

I'm glad I tested the 12v replacement pump from silicon solar... the output tube of the pump is smaller in diameter than the output of the Harbor Freight solar pump. The HF pump output slips perfectly into the 1/2" irrigation tubing I have. The SS pump is too small, though. Turns out, however, that the tube extensions for the risers on the SS pump (still too small to fit perfectly), are a closer fit, and simply by putting a rubber band around the extension tube, it acts as an o-ring/gasket and seals nicely into the irrigation line, and all is well.

[FIGJAM]

[kman]

If your still using 4" duct, this is what I used to connect the duct to the bowl...

<snip>

It was at lowes in the area where the duct was. $4.

I like the 100% silicone for sealing things up cause it stays flexable and sticks things in place very well.

If I need to change something It pulls apart and peals off pretty easy.

No, I'm using flexible 12" insulated AC duct, which has (I believe) a ~6" tube down the middle.




(I'm only using about 4-5' of this long piece, but I'm supplying it to one or two others in my camp who are following my plans as well)

[FIGJAM]

Kman .....did you ever test for temps?

I thought you said you would post them.

Although the way the weathers going we may not need the coolers.

[kman]

Kman .....did you ever test for temps?

I thought you said you would post them.

Although the way the weathers going we may not need the coolers.

Believe it or not, I STILL have yet to be home for more than 10 minutes at a stretch during daylight hours.

I'm going camping this weekend. I may just bring the ol' swamp cooler along for the ride, and see how/if it does any good cooling my tent. Supposed to be in mid-90s. Although we're along a river, so I don't know if the humidity will be low enough. Closest city with a forecast says under 30%, which is better than the 55% we've had at home, so here's hoping.



Edit: And we'd BETTER need these coolers, given the amount of work and brain time I've put into them! LOL

[FIGJAM]

If you cant find a vent 90, I like this as a substitute.....


http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053

and you can get whatever size you want.

[Packoderm]

I've been busy working on my 12 volt swamp cooler. My old motorhome came with a Coleman roofmount swamp cooler. I bought the RV just weeks ago, and I had no idea if the cooler worked or not. I also had a AC on the roof that did not work. I pulled both of them down, and I aim throw away the AC, put the swamp cooler up front where the AC was, and put a vent where the cooler was. The fan works fine in the cooler, but the water pump was toast.



I bought a bilge pump from West Marine for $25. I put plastic window screen material loosely around the bottom of the pump and secured it with a zip tie.






After cleaning the whole thing, buying hoses and connectors, and finagling it all together, I had something that blows air sucked through wet padding.





Once the shroud is on, it will look like any other AC unit you usually find on the typical RV. I'm hoping that the swamp cooler will allow me to not have to use a generator. I might get a solar panel from Harbor Freight instead. I do not know how many amps the cooler draws. I do not know how to check it with the ohmmeter. I'll look that up soon.



I hope that this thing puts out enough cooling power for the playa. It hasn't been hot enough here to properly test it out.

[Packoderm]

oops

[nevadaflyboy]

Here's the historical weather averages and record highs and lows for Gerlach (closest reported weather to BM). More likely than not, we are going to be using our coolers. The only shade is what you bring.

Sun Aug 29
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 85°F Hi 102°F
Lo 54°F Lo 44°F

Mon Aug 30
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 85°F Hi 102°F
Lo 53°F Lo 40°F

Tues Aug 31
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 85°F Hi 101°F
Lo 53°F Lo 39°F

Wed Sept 1
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 84°F Hi 103°F
Lo 53°F Lo 41°F

Thu Sept 2
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 84°F Hi 106°F
Lo 52°F Lo 34°F

Fri Sept 3
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 84°F Hi 102°F
Lo 52°F Lo 37°F

Man Burns
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi -- hotter than the sun Hi- yes
Lo -- as far as you can Lo--------





just kidding Sat Sept 4
AVERAGES RECORDS
Hi 83°F Hi 103°F
Lo 52°F Lo 39°F


ps. Cooler 2 (using FigJam's version 3.0) is just about done. I too am working through the porting issues into our sleeping space. Kudos again to FigJam for finding the duct connector at lowes. $2 beats all the goofy ideas and duct tape that I had to make a removable connector.

[FIGJAM]

Your cooler is a smaller version of a downdraft cooler like they use on houses here.

The pump you bought will put out so much water under pressure that it may spray. That might let the fan draw water into the rv.

I think this pump will work better for that size cooler and will use alot less power.


http://www.siliconsolar.com/replacement ... p-103.html

[FIGJAM]

Most ducting can be done with septic pipe parts.

I was just working with what I had and hadnt considered the alternatives.

[Packoderm]

Figjam, I have ran the pump in my cooler. The water goes drip, drip, drip down the holes to the pads. I'm very pleased with how it's working. The pump on my house swamp cooler is 340 gph. My 12V pump is labeled as 500 gph, but that is straight out of the pump. By the time it goes up a few inches and is squeezed through the holes, the flow seems just about right. I think that fountain pump in your link would be perfect for the home made coolers like yours. I'm thinking of buying an extra pump in case mine fails. It might not hurt to have an extra fan motor too. I've seen swamp coolers for RVs for sale for about $550. That seems steep, but it would be nice to have a dependable cooling unit. Maybe someday.


Here is another home made 12V cooler I found online. http://thefieldlab.blogspot.com/search/ ... epino%20II


If my swamp cooler doesn't cool my RV enough, I was thinking of hanging a 110V house swamp cooler in one of the windows in my RV and get a small generator. I'm hoping not to have to go that route because I'm so broke. If found an older 500W Honda generator on CL for $125, but I'd rather not run one. I'm a bit anti-generator. It's such an ugly noise.

Thanks Figjam for inspiring me to get my swamp cooler going. I like your design. I'll definitely make one based on your design for when I bring a tent to BM.

[FIGJAM]

If you could find a side draft cooler with a bum pump and motor, You could repace the motor and pump with 12volt units.

Then you will be all set without spending $100s.

[big baby jesus]

I just want to say thanks. Last year I busted my Burning Man cherry and I'm so excited for this year. I'm building a Hexayurt and want some sort of cooling/air exchange and this thread has been so helpful. I started out thinking I needed to buy a geeny and an A/C, but I felt like it went against the general spirit of what I want from BM. Anyhow, I'm going to give this a try.

Thanks again!

[Packoderm]

I went ahead and bought a 45 watt solar panel array from Harbor Freight. It came complete with the regulators, some nifty 12V florescent lamps, and some wires. I set it up, and it does make my cooler go, but it goes a bit faster with a battery also hooked up. I guess I won't have the cooler on the whole day, so it can at least slow down the cooler's drain on my battery enough for a week. It cost $184 after tax. I called and asked if the internet price was valid in the store. The clerk said that they will honor the internet sale price if it print out the page showing the internet sale price. That saved me $50. I'm going to fashion a stronger frame to help hold the panels in the wind. Any ideas?

[mthyer]

Worse, gray water from people can have any number of chemicals in it that you don't necessarily want to drink... everything from soap, to bacterial contamination in food waste, to saliva and spit and toothpaste, hair, skin cells... without a combination of serious filtering and some sort of chemical decontamination (probably chlorine), I don't see it as particularly safe.

To drink, I agree with you. But in a system like this you'll be circulating it and evaporating it. Not drinking it. You can add filtration in-line with the circulation pump as well and that will force settling. I'd still be selective about what I chose to put in my swamp cooler, but I'm not sure where there's a health risk in this otherwise.

Also, consider that many people will be evaporting their camp's waste water in solar ponds. Same action, they're just missing out on an opportunity to cool the air while they're doing it. You probably don't avoid walking by flat shallow buckets of shower water left out in the sun because you're concerned that smegma from people showering might be in the air you're breathing?

[FIGJAM]

With all the ducting that is being done to get the air into the structures, dont bother taking the lid off your cooler to add water.

Bring a couple of gallon jugs and pour the water through one of the holes in the side of the bucket.

There will be plenty of flex in the pad and clothe to do this.

[geekster]

Keep the solar panel clear of dust. That will require regular maintenance. It is sometimes cloudy. I would put the solar panel across a fully charged deep cycle battery (with a diode in line). That might last the entire event. I used a solar panel across a deep cycle battery to provide power to a popup trailer in 2005 and it worked fine. I didn't have to recharge the battery during the event though it did discharge considerably. The solar panel didn't provide all the required power by itself but it did extend the life of the battery.

[Packoderm]

Keep the solar panel clear of dust. That will require regular maintenance. It is sometimes cloudy. I would put the solar panel across a fully charged deep cycle battery (with a diode in line). That might last the entire event. I used a solar panel across a deep cycle battery to provide power to a popup trailer in 2005 and it worked fine. I didn't have to recharge the battery during the event though it did discharge considerably. The solar panel didn't provide all the required power by itself but it did extend the life of the battery.

Thanks for the advice. If it's cloudy, is it still too hot to not run the cooler if I want to sleep a bit? I use very little battery charge other than that.

[kman]

Keep the solar panel clear of dust. That will require regular maintenance. It is sometimes cloudy. I would put the solar panel across a fully charged deep cycle battery (with a diode in line). That might last the entire event. I used a solar panel across a deep cycle battery to provide power to a popup trailer in 2005 and it worked fine. I didn't have to recharge the battery during the event though it did discharge considerably. The solar panel didn't provide all the required power by itself but it did extend the life of the battery.

Everything depends on how big your battery is, how long you're at the event (Vanguard people who are there an extra week for building have bigger concerns than people just there for the regular 8/30-9/6 8-day run), and how many hours per day you intend to run the battery.

Also, of course, depends on which cooler variation you built and how much power the components draw.

My cooler uses two 0.6 amp fans, so 1.2 amps when running. I have a solar pump, so no power issues there. If it fails, however, I have the 12v replacement pump from Silicon Solar that FigJam recommended. That draws 0.3 amps (according to SS). Total power draw for the cooler: 1.5 amps. That figure is one hour of operation.

I have the Costco Deep Cycle Marine battery, rated at 115 amp hours. It's brand new, and I'll charge it with my AC-powered car battery charger before leaving. You get to use 50% of the capacity before damaging your deep cycle battery, so that gives me 115/2=57.5 amp hours of power to play with.

Over 8 days, that means without every recharging the battery even a little, I can run use 7.18 amp hours per day. If my power draw is 1.5 amps, that means roughly 4.8 hours per day.

By using the solar array to add juice back to the battery, I should have enough juice to run the cooler for at least 6+ hours per day. And frankly, I highly doubt I will run it that much, since it only needs to run while I'm sleeping in my yurt during the hotter parts of the day.

So since I have a 45w HF solar array, I could quite easily run the cooler for the entire run, for the whole time I'm sleeping. But I doubt I will. I should have power to spare. The HF array is rated at 3 amp output max. In reality, I wouldn't count on hitting the max every day, but even if you get 2 amps for 10 hours per day, that's 20 amps of charging per day!!! So if I'm using 1.5 amps per hour, and the solar array is feeding the battery 2-3 amps per hour during daylight hours, you can see pretty clearly that unless I use the battery for a lot of other things, the swamp cooler alone isn't going to make a dent in my power supply.

[kman]

Kman .....did you ever test for temps?

I thought you said you would post them.

Although the way the weathers going we may not need the coolers.

I was camping on the Kern river this past weekend and FINALLY was able to really test the cooler. I still have not finalized the attachment method of the conduit, but for this minor test, gravity and the tent zipper did the job in a temporary fashion.



Bear in mind I was camped maybe 40' from the river, so while it was hot out I'm not sure how low the humidity was. Lower humidity, like on the playa, should definitely increase the efficiency of the system.

At 9:30 in the morning, temps had already hit 85 degrees outside. My tent was starting to roast.



So I turned on the fans.

Now, my tent has tons of mesh, including along the bottom. And the fan output is not exactly torrents of air gushing forth. But I did have a nice, cool, gentle breeze that I positioned to flow across me, allowing me to sleep a while longer before hungry drove me to leave my tent anyway.



As the temps climbed throughout the day, I dragged the whole thing over to our fire circle where our friends were seated and hanging out. I draped the cooler over my chair to blow the cool air at me while I sat. Temps peaked around 95, as I understand it, and I was still getting 70 degree air out of the conduit.

I have no doubt whatsoever that running it for a longer time period, in a well-sealed and insulated yurt, on the bone-dry playa, is going to make an enormous difference. I was quite pleased with the results of my experiment. Yay!

[FIGJAM]

(Golf Clap)