cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
Post Reply
Skuzzy61
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:26 am
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp/We got this!
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Skuzzy61 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:20 pm

If your cooler is exchanging at a rate of 39 times an hour, you definitely need an opening to allow that much air out of the van.
As the camp evolves.....
We got this! 2016/2019
We had it! 2020
We almost lost it! 2021
We have no idea where it is! 2022
Who the hell are we and why are we here? 2023

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:31 pm

Hey Joe, that's an awful lot of screwing around for lousy results.
You could simply get a 2k watt Honda or Yamaha and run a real A/C.
Then your van will actually get cool! And you don't have to keep circulating outside air - and therefore TONS OF DUST - into your van.

It's worth a thought! (and it's what I do)
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:49 pm

The cooler is plenty big enough for that space.

2 gallons of water should last 5 hours if the humidity is very low.

THE most important thing is that ALL the air going through the cooler HAS to pass through WET pad.

Make sure the bucket is sitting level so that the drip line wets the WHOLE pad.

I'm currently using the cooler out of the playapod to cool my 2750 cubic ft. living room, so I don't have to run the AC!!! 8)

Image
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

worldjoe
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2018

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by worldjoe » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:51 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Hey Joe, that's an awful lot of screwing around for lousy results.
You could simply get a 2k watt Honda or Yamaha and run a real A/C.
Then your van will actually get cool! And you don't have to keep circulating outside air - and therefore TONS OF DUST - into your van.

It's worth a thought! (and it's what I do)
Thanks for the thought. I can't use a generator at the places I go (Coachella & Lightning in a Bottle). I have not worked my way up to the playa yet.
Joseph Elwell.

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:56 pm

No generators at Coachella?
Edit: I went and read the Coachella camping FAQs... man that place must suck.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

joemalo
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:50 am
Burning Since: 2020

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by joemalo » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:52 am

Hi all-- would this be effective for a simple cooling solution for a tent?


http://hackaday.com/2014/05/05/a-low-co ... mp-cooler/

would love to know-- Thanks!

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:11 am

Read the beginning of this thread to learn how to build an extensively playa-tested bucket cooler that works well in BRC.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:57 am

:roll: :roll: :roll:
FIGJAM wrote:The basic idea for the bucket cooler is just a smaller version of Yellowdog's cooler made from a rubbermade garbage can.

An evaporative cooler will reduce the tempature by 20 to 30 degrees.

Keep in mind that there is more than one way to skin a cat. (WARNING! DO NOT SKIN A CAT, IT WONT HELP THIS PROJECT AND WILL IRRITATE YOUR PUSSY!!!)

All the ideas that people came up with on this thread are a perfect example of radical self relience! (Bravo!!!)

Get a 5 gallon bucket and lid.

Have your trained mice naw some holes in the bucket, or use a hole saw, or 50 caliber sniper rifle. (Honey badgers wont work, they don't give a shit!)

Image


Find some cooler pad.

I like duracool pads.

http://www.simsupply.com/Items/426741

If your area does'nt have them, find a national chain DIY hardwear store and see if they will order some for you.

This may save you shipping cost. I use home depot.

Cut the first pad 33 1/2x13 inches.

Roll this pad into a tube and silicone or hand stitch the seam.

This will give you a tube 13 inches tall.

Image

Because the bucket tapers out towards the top, you will not need to line the bucket with shade clothe.

Image

Image

Cut a second piece of pad 24x13 inches and roll into a tight tube.

You wont need to seam this one.

Image

Sleeve this inside the first tube.

The reason for the double pad is to have a wide space to set the drip line on and adds more evap surface.

Image

1/2 inch Drip irrigation line works ok to soak your pads, but poly hose is more flexible and you can buy it by the foot.

I like the T connectors that fit inside the line. I cut the ends of the T shorter so I could keep the holes in the line close enough together so there wont be a dry strip on the pads.

This hose is 3/8 inch.

Image

Image

The holes in the line need to be uniform for an even flow on the pad.

Drlling holes works, but I found that heating a piece of wire melts a nice, more uniform hole.

I used a piece of 10 gauge copper wire.

Heat the wire with a torch, or the burner on your stove, then press through the line.

Sliding the wire in and out till it cools will make a happy hole! (Don't even think about it Yggy, this is serious!)

Image

Image

Image

To pump the water through the line, buy a pump.

This is the solar pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/solar-powe ... 66093.html

I like this pump instead because if it's cloudy, it will still let the cooler work.

Image

http://www.siliconsolar.com/replacement ... p-103.html

The 3/8 inch line fits this pump perfectly.

Nice even flow of water.

Image

Image

Image

When the lid is put on, the line will be pinched between the lid and the pad, so it wont move around.

FANS!

The key to good cooler is a powerful fan.

CFM=cubic feet per minute.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g36/c43 ... y_CFM.html

I used this one.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 6c435s1108

It uses more power, but makes the bucket cooler very effective.

Calculate the cubic footage of the space to be cooled, then get a fan that will replace the air inside the space every 3 to 5 minutes.

I use a single fan cause it suits my design perfectly.

Cut a hole in the lid of the bucket to mount the fan.

I put mine on the bottom of the lid to keep the unit compact and to make ducting easier.

Image

Any 120mm fan will fit inside the top of the pad tube.

I spliced the wires from the fan to the wires from the pump. (both are 12volt)

Then ran the wire out through one of the holes in the side of the bucket.

Now with the lid on the bucket, I used a 4 inch septic line connector gooped to the lid over the fan.

Image

Image

Image

Now you can use 4 inch septic line to duct the air into the space to be cooled. You don't need to glue these piceces together.

Image

These parts are at the hardwear store.

Outside temp!

Image

Air temp coming from the cooler!

Image

Water temp inside the bucket!

Image

This cooler uses 2 gallon of water every 5 hours.

It uses about 1.45amps per hour.

My 105AH deep cycle battery will run this cooler for 47 hours before needing to be recharged.

So running 4 or 5 hours a day, it will let you nap in the hottest part of the day, all week without recharging the battery.

If you need more cooling than this, build the box cooler.

You will need to vent the air out of the space for circulation.

HAPPY NAPPING!!
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

smiffman
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:22 am
Burning Since: 2014

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by smiffman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:13 am

One of these days I will assemble one of these....days....

worldjoe
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2018

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by worldjoe » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:14 pm

Ok. So it sounds like what I am hearing is that my insulation is probably fine and that instead I should be focused on whether or not the swamp cooler is working well.

What I am not clear on is even if my cooler is only dropping the temperature by 10 degrees. Shouldn't the inside of the van still be cooler than the outside? Not hotter? I appear to have enough air flow. Yet the temperature reading was 13 degrees hotter inside than outside.

Should I be measuring the outside temperature in the sun next to the cooler? I had been measuring in the shade on the opposite side of the van.

Should I be trying to place the swamp cooler in the shade? I tried covering it with a tapestry since it was sitting on the sunny side of the van. But maybe that doesn't qualify as shade. At Coachella it's pretty much guaranteed to be in shade because the vehicles are parked close to eachother. But most of the time I tend to put the van's sliding door side in the shade (because that is the side of the van I get in and out of). That means the swamp cooler is connected to the side of the van that tends to be in the sunlight.

I should have taken more accurate measurements on the input and output temps of the cooler. I took one casual measurement and the air coming out was around 64 with the outside temp around 74. Unfortunately I live close enough to the coast (15 minutes or so) that my local humidity is usually really high, like 50%. That makes it hard to do much testing while at home.

I did pull apart the cooler. I noticed that water wasn't making it very well (just a drip) at the opposite end of the t connector. So I added some more air holes. It's still not getting nearly as much pressure on that side though.

Thanks,
Joseph Elwell.

LowePro
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:46 pm

This is your main problem:

"water wasn't making it very well (just a drip) at the opposite end of the t connector. So I added some more air holes. It's still not getting nearly as much pressure on that side though."

You need to have the blue pad evenly and completely wet for the swampie to work. If there are dry spots on the blue pad, the airflow will seek the path of least resistance (the dry spots) which will not cool down! Revisit the tips above on this thread and the original build specs to see how to get a good flow of water thru your drip line. You may have to get a new hose and start over, but that's cheap. If you fix this feature, you will prob have much better results.

And do not drape anything over the cooler. It needs fresh airflow at all times. Shade helps but airflow trumps shade.

keves
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2013

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by keves » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:43 am

A while ago I built a Figjam bucket swamp cooler (TM) and threw in a float switch + relay + auxiliary pump that got activated once the water level went below a certain threshold instead of the main pump. This pump would then pump water into the bucket from a reservoir, saving me from the need to get up and refill the thing. This year I decided to over-engineer further this since I wanted to build a second swamp cooler and all the point to point wiring of fuse/relay/fan/pumps is a pain in the ass. And you know, if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing. For that, I have built a custom PCB (Printed Ciruit Board - the thing that holds the components) that includes:
1) A fuse
2) Easy to use connectors: 1 Input, 1 float switch (connected to relay), 2 relay-controlled outputs (one when the relay is not activated - to power main pump, one when relay is activated - to power aux pump), and 2 always on outputs (one for fan, one for good measure)
3) Status LEDs (optional, just to easily see the thing is working).

It was pretty cheap to make and I'm happy to provide a link to order on Oshpark (cheap low quantity board manufacturer) + list of components. Just thought I'd share in case this can save someone some time.
IMG-20160406-WA0007.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

wifigod
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:53 pm
Burning Since: 2013

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by wifigod » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:34 pm

keves wrote:A while ago I built a Figjam bucket swamp cooler (TM) and threw in a float switch + relay + auxiliary pump that got activated once the water level went below a certain threshold instead of the main pump. This pump would then pump water into the bucket from a reservoir, saving me from the need to get up and refill the thing. This year I decided to over-engineer further this since I wanted to build a second swamp cooler and all the point to point wiring of fuse/relay/fan/pumps is a pain in the ass. And you know, if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing. For that, I have built a custom PCB (Printed Ciruit Board - the thing that holds the components) that includes:
1) A fuse
2) Easy to use connectors: 1 Input, 1 float switch (connected to relay), 2 relay-controlled outputs (one when the relay is not activated - to power main pump, one when relay is activated - to power aux pump), and 2 always on outputs (one for fan, one for good measure)
3) Status LEDs (optional, just to easily see the thing is working).

It was pretty cheap to make and I'm happy to provide a link to order on Oshpark (cheap low quantity board manufacturer) + list of components. Just thought I'd share in case this can save someone some time.
IMG-20160406-WA0007.jpeg
What's the BOM and OSH Park link? Also, what did your total cost end up coming around at (ballpark figure, no need for specifics). Thanks so much for sharing!

keves
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2013

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by keves » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:48 pm

OshPark: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/03cD43VN
Eagle files: https://github.com/eranrund/eagle/tree/ ... amp-cooler
BOM:
3x 680ohm resistors
3x 5mm LED
Relay: 1x http://www.taydaelectronics.com/mini-re ... ntact.html
Connectors: 6x http://www.taydaelectronics.com/connect ... ehdrc.html + http://www.taydaelectronics.com/connect ... 5esdv.html
Fuse holder: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/fuse-ho ... cb-4a.html
Fuse: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/fuse-gl ... -5x20.html

Wrote the BOM from memory so I hope I didn't miss anything. It was pretty cheap - can't remember but ~$10 per board for PCB + components?

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:40 pm

I was just getting ready to do the same thing. :coffee: Pen and paper in hand!!

Thanks Keves for posting this up!! :mrgreen:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

keves
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:56 pm
Burning Since: 2013

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by keves » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:33 am

Of course! Happy to help, and happy to answer any questions about this :)

User avatar
Leap
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:17 am
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Big Puffy Yellow

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Sat May 07, 2016 9:35 am

Is it possible to have too much fan? I decided to go with a smaller tent that's about 160 cubic feet. I know I need to turn over air at least 3 times per hour. Is 3 time per hour optimum or is OK for me to go with a robust 150ish CFM fan? Any drawback other than using more power?

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sat May 07, 2016 4:19 pm

Only if your moving so much air that the pump can't keep the pads wet. IE: evaporating water faster than can be feed by the pump.

If you flush the controlled space, (the tent or van), more than three times per hour, you basically have an 'over sized' unit for the space being cooled. Better to flush more than needed then not enough. These little fans don't move much more air the a fart fan in your bathroom.

You should be good.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Sat May 07, 2016 9:16 pm

No, no, no!!!!!!!

A complete air exchange every 1 to 3 MINUTES is what will cool best!!!!! :roll:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sat May 07, 2016 10:00 pm

True the best, but we're talking tents. with little to no insulation. Assuming all the air going in, is going out. IE: not blowing the tent up like a fat balloon (which it can't because these fans don't push much any positive pressure) he would be basically moving more air than he needs.

I took his post to mean he had a larger tent, same fan, that flushed every 3-4 minutes. Now has a smaller tent, which has less CF, using the same fan. Doubt he will notice much difference until it cools off and then he might get chilly. We can pull enthalpy charts but again we're talking about a tent, not a home.

If I misunderstood, my apologies.... :wink:

Edit: I see my mistake in my prior post, .....more than three times per hour, Should have said 'minutes', not 'hour'.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Sun May 08, 2016 6:22 am

With the venting adjusted correctly, we do get a enough positive pressure to keep the dust from entering through the vent. 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
Leap
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:17 am
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Big Puffy Yellow

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Sun May 08, 2016 7:00 am

FIGJAM wrote:No, no, no!!!!!!!

A complete air exchange every 1 to 3 MINUTES is what will cool best!!!!! :roll:
Geez, don't know where I got that hour from.

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Sun May 08, 2016 7:23 am

PLAYATIME!!! :wink:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sun May 08, 2016 9:16 am

Maybe its time for a sticky on this topic as there seems be a lot confusion. Much of it is the lack of fully understanding how Evaporative Cooling works. I give you this wall of text. :shock:

*********************

Evaporative cooling requires three things.

a. Water flow – enough to keep the pads wet 100%
b. Air flow – The air used is once (once in/once out) of the controlled space, not recirculated
c. Outside air dew point below 40-45’F – note I did not say Relative Humidity. Don’t worry, the Playa is dry enough….

The reason we use poly pads or aspen chip pads or expanded paper pads is to spread out the water’s surface area. More water evaporates more efficiently suspending it through a pad, or a cloth for that matter, than blowing a fan over a pan of water.

Evaporation is the change in state of the liquid being evaporated. Basically boiling. Every liquid has a boiling point. Some are at high temps, some low. Everyone can relate to boiling as adding heat, like boiling water on the stove. So when you think about it, an evaporative cooler is trying to boil water. The difference is we are not heating all of the water in our pan, (the bucket) We only boil a very small amount, the droplets or more accurately, the surface of these droplets as they drip through the pads. The hot dry air we flow through the pads is the heat source, (stove burner). Everyone can agree it takes longer to boil a pan of ice water than it does hot water from the kitchen tap right? (there is a bar bet on this topic that will win you drinks but we can discuss that another time)

Misters
Some have asked about misters. Misters work on the same principle but get there differently. Instead of blowing air across a wet pad, they atomize the water drops so the ambient air actually evaporates the water. This is great for open air settings, and vegetable displays. 8) Not enclosed living areas. Mount these under your communal shade structure

Water temps
Putting ice in your bucket thinking it’s the cold water that makes the bucket cooler work is incorrect and is wasting valuable ice for beer and drinks. In fact, if one were to paint the bucket black, and/or push the water through a coil of ½” irrigation tubing lying next to the bucket heated by the sun, before it drops on the pads, the system would work more efficiently. This is because the water is at a higher temperature when it hits the pads. The more tubing the hotter the water will get.

Air flow
The amount of air being pushed through the pads, then into the controlled space, is calculated by the size of the controlled space. Rule of thumb for achieving an efficient system is to completely change the volume of air in the space every 1 to 3 times per minute. For dry climates you can go as high as 1 or 2 changes per minute.

Because evaporative cooling is a once in/once out design we need to allow the air to exhaust from the controlled space. In a tent it’s easier because they are not ‘air tight’. Vehicles like a van or box truck are more air tight. To better understand this, get a shoe box or equivalent and a hair drier. Cut a hole in the end of the box to stick the end of the hair drier in. Use the lid of the shoe box as an adjustable vent. (or cut a flap on the other end) With the vent closed/lid down tight, turn on the hair drier. Note the sound of the drier. Or to see it, place lit incense near the drier intake. Now open the vent or crack the lid to the box. Notice how the air flow increases through the drier and thus the box? The sound of the air drier changes too. The box is your tent or van or box truck. If your duct feeding your abode is say 4 or 6”, then you need a vent 4 or 6” to allow the air to escape. Usually a tad bigger to make it easier for the air to flow.

Now it has been posted that it is desirable to have a slight positive pressure in you controlled space to keep dust out. This is true, but it does not have to be much. Like less then what it takes to blow up a balloon. The fact is most the dust gets washed out going through the wet pads, so all we are trying to do is keep too much air from ‘wafting’ in when we enter and exit the abode. The fact the little propeller fans used on the bucket cooler and various designs will not create very much positive pressure it’s almost a moot point. Note most home evap coolers use a squirrel cage fans designed to create lots of positive pressure. The same squirrel cage fans are used in mechanical air conditioning for this reason too.

Compromise
All this said, the bucket cooler is a compromise of a home evap cooler. We compromise in efficiency of the unit by using propeller fans, by having ‘X’ amount of holes of ‘X' amount of size, (free area) in the bucket, and the type of ducting used. Smooth walled duct (PVC fittings) flows better than spiral or flexible duct. Either can be used but for simplicity of the bucket cooler application, if a 4” PVC pipe obtains the desired air flow you will need, a slightly larger flex duct is needed to obtain the same air flow. Maybe 1” larger. This is due to the restriction of air flow of flexible duct.

Because the propeller fans do not ‘suck’ or ‘blow’ very well with restrictions, the more free area the better. If one were to wrap the poly media to a smaller diameter to give it an inch from the bucket wall, it would allow air flow in between the wall of the bucket and the pad using more of the pad itself for evaporation. When the pad is up against the wall of the bucket, most of the air is only going through the circle size of the hole(s), or free area. Air & fluids takes the path of least resistance. In this case the air does not go sideways once it hits the pad. It goes straight through. (or maybe a slight cone shape) An air gap allows the air to go sideways, up & down looking for the path of least resistance until it realizes there is no easier path & gets sucked through the pad. More surface area of the wet pad being used, more water evaporated, more efficient.

Quick side notes.

1. Putting more water in your bucket only reduces the amount of times you need to refill it. It does nothing to increase cooling. In fact if one were to fill it so full that the surface area of the pad is reduced to the point of not allowing enough evaporation, it hurts you. So pour 2-3 or whatever gals in it and be done with it.

2. Insulating the duct is not as important as insulating the controlled space. Sure it helps, but will you really notice it? Probably not. Unless you have a very long run of duct, then I would ask why?? :wink:

OverKill - The Playa montra....
Being humans we try to create an environment for ourselves that is tolerable or even comfortable in the harshest areas, the playa in this case. Does the FIGJAM bucket cooler work? Hell yea it works! History has proven that. So build as he has explained and be done with it. There is no need to over complicate it. Build it, set it up at camp and get to burning! :D You will notice FIGJAM has only improved his design by building the 'Wall Box' variant. He removed the restriction of holes in a bucket, getting more air across the pads more efficiently evaporating the water. Done & done. If you're in a tent use the bucket cooler. If in a van or box truck you may be able to use the Wall Box providing you have a place to mount it.

However, IF you are wanting to make it better, which really is making it more efficient , (IE: compromise less) or require less attention while using it, (float valves & other controls) you really need to fully understand how evaporative cooling works. If you don't, then leave it alone.

The biggest issue everyone seems to have is CFM. How big of fan do I need? Using this formula gets you the answer you want. (As FIGJAM has stated many times before)

Volume of a space is length X width X height. There are online calculators for spheres, tubes and other shaped spaces. For a tent I would just assume it is square/rectangle like a box. But you can calculate it how you want. The bottom line is we need cubic feet value to work with.

a. A tent that is 10' wide , 10' long, 7' high has a total of 700 cubic feet of area to be cooled. 10x10x7 = 700
b. Using the factor of two (for an air change every two minutes), dividing 700 by two to gives you the CFM required, in this case 350 CFM.
c. Use three, for three changes per minute, gives you 233 CFM fan.

Now you may not find a fan rated at the CFM the calculations say, so go to the next size bigger and be done with it.

*************************************

Mods can stick FIGJAM's 'How to' here.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun May 08, 2016 10:52 am

How it's done:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sun May 08, 2016 11:30 am

Ha! That's not very burner of you Captain! And it falls under 'Mechanical' cooling, which I use too. 8) But mine looks like this.

Image

Image

Go big or go home..... Don't wanna hear about only needing 2000watts..... LOL :lol:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun May 08, 2016 12:09 pm

Well actually, this is how I personally do it, with the window unit as backup
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10232
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Sun May 08, 2016 5:57 pm

The Capt. raises you 1 genny AND 1 AC.

You calling or raising??? :lol:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sun May 08, 2016 6:27 pm

I fold.... :D Unless a nitrogen bottle and air compressor makes it two pair.... LOL

Wait! Maybe this makes full house.
IMAG1615-a.jpg
IMAG1621-a.jpg
IMAG1623-a.jpg
Fans will get mounted under the lid. I'm adding float switches and timer, you know, for science. :mrgreen:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

tickle monster
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 11:31 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Octopuses Garden

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by tickle monster » Tue May 17, 2016 11:57 am

SerendipityDSS wrote:Hi SleepNoMore, curious about your experience with the Lotus Belle this year and which model you have? We took the Outback and the mesh strip where the walls meet the ceiling just let the dust pour in. When I contacted the company, I was surprised to learn that using their tents are BRC are actually called out as not covered in the Terms & Conditions (http://lotusbelle.com/pages/terms-conditions). We ended up stuffing the opening with plastic, taping the ceiling to the walls with drywall tape and then taping a strip of plastic over the whole thing. A lot of work given that when I contacted them with dust questions prior to purchasing, the company said the tent could be sealed to keep dust out and recommended the Outback. They are now saying that using the tent on the Playa involves extreme weather conditions and they don't recommend it or support it. Would love to hear your experience.
I'm the co-founder of Lotus Belle. We do not "void your warranty" if you take your tent to the Playa. Having taking my tents there I know they perform really well on the Playa. Last year's reports were that the dust/wind was extremely bad. We have a mesh strip between the wall and the roof which serves a key breathability function. The roof lapels cover this. But in the instance of last year, we had a few reports of dust swooping up under the roof. These were blizzard like conditions! I attended in 2014 and did not experience the same issue. It was a first for us to receive this feedback so we designed a "room cocoon" which will solve the issue. I always go above and beyond to help people prepare for the Burn. I'm able to give first hand experiences to customers and work my butt off in the days leading up to the event supplying tents to people, helping mend broken parts and being on-call 24/7. If you have any issues just email me! We are a little independent tent manufacturer. I don't know any other tent maker who provide the level of service we do. The BIG players certainly do not. We also offer a life-time support as part of our warranty.

Mod note, edit to remove commercial link

PS - If you want to see examples of how bad the weather was last year then here's a link of a 1 ton geodesic dome wrapped around a Uhaul

#lockdownyourdomes

Post Reply

Return to “Keeping Cool”