cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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HeyJoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by HeyJoe » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:09 pm

I've hit a snag...I ordered the Delta 120 fan and found the pos and neg wires and connected it to a new marine battery...however the fan is only powered when the wires are rubbing against the terminals. Once the connection bolt is tightened down, the fan stops. I tested it with another battery...same problem. What do you think? Bad connection or bad fan?

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:36 pm

Connect the wires to the posts and if it does'nt run, wiggle the wires.

If it runs intermitantly, one of the wires has a break.

You can try to shorten the wire to get past the break, but I'd get the fan replaced.
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Apox
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Apox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:50 pm

the problem I ran into when thinking about how to build mine was that if you got the solar powered pump from amazon and harbor freight was that the power needed to run the 190+CFM fans were that the solar panel wouldnt produce enough while also running the small pump. those small pumps' solar panel barely produces 1 amp, while the high cfm fans require 1.5.

So what im doing is buying the 7 dollar pump from that site earlier in the thread, a battery, and a 5W solar panel. the pump and fan will be running off the battery and bought the 5w solar panel with a voltage meter on amazon to keep the battery charged. it seems to be the best way to go.

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Apox
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Apox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:50 pm

Also, how much water should we expect to bring to refill these?

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:53 pm

Depends on how much you run it.

The bucket cooler uses 2 gal. every 5 hours.
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HeyJoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by HeyJoe » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:13 pm

Do you have a new favorite fan?

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Apox
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Apox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:24 pm

I bought a fan off of frozencpu that puts out 217 cfm. I think the most important is the cfm, not really the brand. Unless it was from somebody who is known to be crap.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:26 pm

I still think this is the best for the bucket.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 6c435s1108
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strangeloop
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by strangeloop » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:53 pm

[quote="FIGJAM"]I still think this is the best for the bucket.

[url]http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 6c435s1108[/url][/quote]

I got my cooler up and running with this fan, and it seems to output a nice amount of air. Works fine being wired up to the pump. Looking forward to trying it out soon!

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Apox
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Apox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:46 pm

It does? I didnt think the solar panel was able to produce enough amps to power the pump and fan...
Last edited by Apox on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:49 pm

Apox wrote:It does? I didnt think the solar panel was able to produce enough amps to power the pump and fan... Good to know though!
I think he has the 12 volt pump and running them off a battery.

I don't want people to get confused. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by strangeloop » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:06 pm

Correct. Sorry bout that.

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:11 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I still think this is the best for the bucket.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 6c435s1108
Figjam, They've changed that model, now it is a PWM fan. While it will should still work (as per my previous post), the PWM fan specs say it shouldn't. I would recommend a non-pwm fan for two reasons:
1: Pwm fans in spec won't work and
2: non-pwm fans will be cheaper.

Your version of this fan is non-pwm with two (or three) wires. PWM fans have four wires.

HeyJoe wrote:I've hit a snag...I ordered the Delta 120 fan and found the pos and neg wires and connected it to a new marine battery...however the fan is only powered when the wires are rubbing against the terminals. Once the connection bolt is tightened down, the fan stops. I tested it with another battery...same problem. What do you think? Bad connection or bad fan?
HeyJoe, I have that same fan in the URL above, and I got it working, can you tell me which two wires you are using? is it the first two according to my pinout. I'm not sure if you read my previous post or not, but if you check it and are still having problems, post some pics of your fan and I'll try to work it out with you.

Unless you have a large volume of air to move, I'd recommend the KRAZE fans. slightly lower output, but cheaper and more efficient. Also, these units are non-pwm.


That being said, you could always incorporate a PWM controller for adjustable output.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:15 pm

Mine was a pwm I think, but there was a conector mid wire that I unpluged and threw away that had 4 wires on it.
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The CO
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by The CO » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:51 pm

Figjam, I was inspired (and cleaning a bit when I discovered some old parts....) by your design, so I built one this afternoon.

Behold!

Image

Kitty litter bucket
1" foam
Pump from my 1st evap fountain, which was in turn recycled from an old fish tank
Tubing from my 1st evap fountain
Bathroom exhaust fan that was left in original box in a closet by the old owners

...all of which I had lying around my house, so the total cost was $0.00.

Not perfect, but already functional. I want to replace the pads with the Duracools you were talking about, get a better fan and pump that run off 12vdc. But, for being a 2 hour project with no money spent, I'm pretty pleased.

Thanks for sharing the design. Maybe we should organize a playa engineer tour that people could take at their leisure, rather than a meet-up?
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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:52 pm

Interesting. Perhaps it was a mid-model change or something. mine had four black wires terminating in a 4 pin molex connector. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have again made a change to the true pwm fan spec.
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HeyJoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by HeyJoe » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:10 pm

Mr.Coffee wrote:Interesting. Perhaps it was a mid-model change or something. mine had four black wires terminating in a 4 pin molex connector. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have again made a change to the true pwm fan spec.
[img]/Users/jmeastwood/Desktop/IMG_3241.JPG[/img]

Mine also had the four black wires and 4pin connector. I clipped off the connector and found the pos and neg wires. I don't recall what # wires they were, but I did try an assortment of combos before finding these two that work (though not well). The fan only runs if the exposed wire is moving along the terminal. Once tightened down, it stops. And jiggling the wires doesn't help, so I don't suspect a break in the wire. Could this be a PWM fan issue?

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:22 pm

Hey Joe, I would send it back for replacment.

Before I clipped my wires I tried all combos including doubleing wires to find the most output.

Turned out 2 wires would do - and +.

The CO, easy huh. 8)
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HeyJoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by HeyJoe » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:52 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Hey Joe, I would send it back for replacment.

Before I clipped my wires I tried all combos including doubleing wires to find the most output.

Turned out 2 wires would do - and +.

The CO, easy huh. 8)
Unfortunately, I've had it for over the 14 day return period.

Mr.Coffee, once you marked your four wires, how did you connect them to the battery? and where did you find the Kraze fans? If I can't figure out which wires were which, I'll go with new fan.

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:25 pm

Unfortunately, I've had it for over the 14 day return period.

Mr.Coffee, once you marked your four wires, how did you connect them to the battery? and where did you find the Kraze fans? If I can't figure out which wires were which, I'll go with new fan.[/quote]

Well, I was careful to mark the wires when I disconnected them, as the connector is the only real way to tell which wire is which before disconnecting. Have you tried reversing the polarity across those two wires? Again, if you can send me some pictures, I might be able to help you with this.

basically, looking at the wires coming off the fan (assuming yours is wired the same as mine),the two drive wires should be next to each other. they should be the first pair, with the outside wire being negative.
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The Bee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by The Bee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:36 pm

What's a PWM fan?

Here's a 215 CFM fan that draws 1.5 amps on sale for $25 at Frozen CPU...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13560 ... 6c435s1109

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:45 pm

The Bee wrote:What's a PWM fan?

Here's a 215 CFM fan that draws 1.5 amps on sale for $25 at Frozen CPU...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13560 ... 6c435s1109

That's a hell of a fan. good price too, but I'd take the higher current draw (1.5ah) as the draw to plan around.

"PWM" stands for "Pulse Width Modulation". Basically it is a method to externally control the speed of the fan. the fourth wire wants an input signal at 25khz for max fan speed, by varying the frequency input on that pin, you can vary the fan speed.

Full specs can be found on this pdf: http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5C ... Public.pdf
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"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra

andreas97
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by andreas97 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:09 pm

My unicooler based on the trash can has been pretty much built.
Just need to do a little wiring, and I'll test it out in the morning.

Also need to build out a little bit so that it sits flush against the air intake on the inside wall of the yurt.

Pics, if interested:
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/ ... Unicooler/

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The CO
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by The CO » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:39 pm

FIGJAM wrote:The CO, easy huh. 8)
And how.

Do you have any math on the co-efficient between outside humidity, outside temperature & exhaust temp? I'm in a valley in the Northwest, low to sea level, average temp 80, 20-30% humidity. I'd love to have an idea of what the change might be in going to BRC.
M*A*S*H 4207th: An army of fun.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:54 pm

There's pics of my temp tests in the thread.

Here, when I was testing the humidity was 8% and the temp drop was consistently 30 degrees.

Image

Image

BRC is even drier. 8)
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The CO
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by The CO » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:19 pm

Eggsalad.... that's one reference point. Now to see what I'm getting in the sun tomorrow...
M*A*S*H 4207th: An army of fun.
I don't care what the borg says: feather-wearers will NOT be served in Rosie's Bar.
When I ask how many burns, I mean at BRC.

akb427
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by akb427 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:21 pm

So, I think I'm bringing an 8' Springbar canvas tent, and I want to build a swamp cooler for it.
Should I place the swamp cooler inside the tent or do I try to duct the output into the tent somehow?

--thank for any clues...
--akb

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:30 pm

After a good bit of conversation with HeyJoe, I've come to this conclusion.

This fan: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 6c435s1108

that was originally recommened, WILL NO LONGER WORK

This is through no fault of FIGJAM or anyone else here, I have this fan and it works for me, however, I think Delta has changed the model yet again (I have a different version from what FIGJAM originally specified), and the current version doesn't work on just 12vdc. YMMV, but if you're in the market, don't buy this one.

TheBee suggested this alternative: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13560 ... 6c435s1109, and, to me, this sounds like a good upgrade. It's currently less expensive, has a greater output, and it is currently listed as a non-pwm fan which means it'll take 12vdc like a duck to water. also, it is a 55mm, not a 38mm fan, which means it's deeper. I am not a physics major, but this might help with the efficency of the cooler (testing is needed to verify this hypothesis).

regardless, more output, less power consumption, less cost = a more efficient solution for this project.

Last but not least, a big Thank You to FIGJAM, for without him, none of this would be plausible.
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:32 pm

The CO wrote:Eggsalad.... that's one reference point. Now to see what I'm getting in the sun tomorrow...
Gazing into my crysal balls, I predict you will see a 12 to 15 degree drop in temp. :lol:
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The CO
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by The CO » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:33 pm

AKB427-

In theory, you want the cooler outside the tent, drawing in the least-humid air possible. The less humidity @ input means more water can evaporate into the air passing through, increasing the amount of temperature reduction @ output.

In practice, I don't know; this is the first one I've built. Figjam? Anyone?
M*A*S*H 4207th: An army of fun.
I don't care what the borg says: feather-wearers will NOT be served in Rosie's Bar.
When I ask how many burns, I mean at BRC.

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