cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:44 pm

Fuck me for posting the wrong fan.

I picked the cheapest on the page.

This is my fan!!! :oops:

Look at the wires!!!

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8547/ ... 1108#blank

From this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c43 ... d=A2vB3Nbz

Chosen from this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g36/c43 ... y_CFM.html

I'm terribly sorry for creating this confution. :roll:
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Apox
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Apox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:09 pm

My fan doesn't say pwm, but has options for a rpm wire... Which I thought what pwm is. So this should work? http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9769/ ... d=PiBk5rG8

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:13 pm

Yes, you can see the black and red wire in the pic.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:17 pm

The CO wrote:AKB427-

In theory, you want the cooler outside the tent, drawing in the least-humid air possible. The less humidity @ input means more water can evaporate into the air passing through, increasing the amount of temperature reduction @ output.

In practice, I don't know; this is the first one I've built. Figjam? Anyone?

Yup, the hot dry air is what makes the cooler work. 8)
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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Apox wrote:My fan doesn't say pwm, but has options for a rpm wire... Which I thought what pwm is. So this should work? http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9769/ ... d=PiBk5rG8
the "Rpm wire" is the same as what is also called the "Tach wire", or "Tach output". this lead delivers two voltage pulses per revolution. it is so motherboards and the like can tell how fast the fan is turning. Your fan will work if it spins up when you apply 12 volts to it, no worries.




FIGJAM wrote:Fuck me for posting the wrong fan.

I picked the cheapest on the page.

This is my fan!!! :oops:

Look at the wires!!!

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8547/ ... 1108#blank

From this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c43 ... d=A2vB3Nbz

Chosen from this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g36/c43 ... y_CFM.html

I'm terribly sorry for creating this confution. :roll:
No worries, FIGJAM, it's all good. It should be noted, that the main fan code : AFB1212SHE is the same on your original model as it is on mine. Delta changed the specs on it, which isn't that surprising considering how quickly computer technology advances. You've done nothing wrong, High-flow compact fans have just gotten better, that's all.
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra

onit
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by onit » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:21 am

Thank you so much for this thread! I am trying to find a way to supply energy. I was wanting to try this http://www.amazon.com/Instapark%C2%AE-H ... d_sbs_ol_1 but I am not sure if it is enough and am a little unsure as to if I need an AC DC convertor.

Its stats are:
Power (Pmax) : 5W ;can be used in single-module and multiple-module systems
Maximum power voltage ( Vpm ) : 17.5V ;Maximum Power Current: 0.28A
Cable lengths : 3'
Dimension 11 x 8 1/4 x 2/3 in
Open circuit voltage ( Voc ) : 21.95V

I'll be using these.
Fan:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8547/ ... 1108#blank
Pump:
http://www.siliconsolar.com/replacement ... p-103.html

Can't wait to be home with all you lovely people!! :D

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:14 pm

Oint, that solar panel will not be powerful enough to run your swamp cooler. You'll need 2.3 amps to run your cooler with that setup.
I was able to get two 20 watt panels on ebay for $100 shipped, which I'll be using to power my cooler and an endless breeze. at 5 watts, you're going to get under half an amp, which will run the pump alright, but will leave you fan rather anemic.
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
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mkbuckley
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by mkbuckley » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Hi, Figjam,

I recently bought the same fan you did, a Delta AFB1212SHE, from FrozenCPU. However, my fan doesn't look like yours. Instead of having one red and one black wire coming from it, the fan has four black wires that all terminate in a plastic plug. See below:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 12SHE.html

My question is: do you have any ideas on how to make this fan work? I have no idea which are the positive and which are the negative wires.

Thanks much,

Mark

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:23 pm

If you read back through the thread, I posted the pinout of that fan. It's the same model I have, but might not work, HeyJoe has one that he can't get to run, so give it your best shot.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:29 pm

Thank's Mr.Coffee!

You understand these fans better than I do and it's saving me having to answer these types of questions. 8)
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nickins
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by nickins » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:52 pm

What does the tapering at the top / shade cloth matter for? I just picked up a bucket from Home Cheap and the homer bucket is no longer tapered...

rubymermaid
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rubymermaid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:05 pm

I just ordered the wrong fan and spent 48 dollars on it.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:08 pm

nickins wrote:What does the tapering at the top / shade cloth matter for? I just picked up a bucket from Home Cheap and the homer bucket is no longer tapered...
If you got it from a stack of bucket then it has a slight taper.

The shade clothe will make a noticable reduction in the air flow, so I designed to aliminate it.

Look at the pics on page 1. 8)
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:10 pm

rubymermaid wrote:I just ordered the wrong fan and spent 48 dollars on it.
Can you post a link to your fan?

I didn't test or look at any fans at that price. :?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rubymermaid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:10 pm

FIGJAM please update the links on your original post so that no one buys the wrong fan like I did.

It was the fan from your original post. It was 41 dollars with shipping. I am very sad now. I really need this to work out.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:11 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Fuck me for posting the wrong fan.

I picked the cheapest on the page.

This is my fan!!! :oops:

Look at the wires!!!

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8547/ ... 1108#blank

From this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c43 ... d=A2vB3Nbz

Chosen from this page.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g36/c43 ... y_CFM.html

I'm terribly sorry for creating this confution. :roll:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

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Mr.Coffee
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:12 pm

You might be able to cancel the order and swap it out for another model. And like I said earlier, that fan might work. MIne did, HeyJoe couldn't get his to work.

and FIGJAM, No worries man, just helping out where I can.

btw, looks like I'll be camping with orphan camp iii this year. 5:15 and I if possible.

Edit: Just to be clear, when FIGJAM posted the fan model, it was a different fan. Delta changed the fan.
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rubymermaid
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rubymermaid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:22 pm

I am really really confused now. When I look at the pictures of the fan in the original post the numbers match the one I ordered from this page:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12959 ... 1108#blank

Is that the right fan?

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:28 pm

That's why I posted the appoligy.

I thought my fan was the cheaper one and it was'nt.

The fan you have may work, but you will have to strip the wires and test which ones power the fan OR send it back for the other one.

The manufaturer changed the wiring and I just found out about it.

This pic shows that fan and you can see the black and red wires in it.

Image
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rubymermaid
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rubymermaid » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:46 pm

[quote="Mr.Coffee"]You might be able to cancel the order and swap it out for another model. And like I said earlier, that fan might work. MIne did, HeyJoe couldn't get his to work.

and FIGJAM, No worries man, just helping out where I can.

btw, looks like I'll be camping with orphan camp iii this year. 5:15 and I if possible.

Edit: Just to be clear, when FIGJAM posted the fan model, it was a different fan. Delta changed the fan.[/quote]

Ohhhh I understand now. Anyways. I am going to call tomorrow and see if they will switch it.

FIGJAM

The new link you posted doesn't seem to have the red / black wire system. I am really confused about sleeving and the such. Do I need it? Do I need Molex Connector & RPM ($4.99)?

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the help. I'm in terrible disarray this week.

I am so terribly sorry for all the questions. I am really freaking out about Bman. I broke my foot 4 weeks ago so this year is extra stressful.

Mr Coffee. Any advice on getting the new model to work?

I don't understand how to connect the fan. Is is basic red cable to red and black to black on a battery? What if I wanted to power it through a motorhome (camp mates, not mine otherwise I wouldn't need a swamp cooler!)

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Yes, but if the wires arn't color coded I would strip them and do a touch test to the battery.

I never hurt the fan doing this and and it will only run when you test the right wires. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:04 pm

the new model of the fan is a pwm version, hence why it only has black wires.

You will not need a molex connector, that's only for hooking it to fan controllers and mother boards, neither of which you'll be doing.

The fan you ordered MIGHT work, mine did and Heyjoe's did, but I would recommend swapping it for a different model to be sure. Call the guys next week and ask them, they'll probably be able to help you. If it's too late and the fan is on it's way, you might still be able to get it to work. follow the pinout on my earlier post, and you might be able to get it working.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by kman » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:41 pm

The Bee wrote:My prototype undergoing beta testing. I had the rigid 3" pipe lying around, so I used it instead of flexible dryer hose. The upside down bowl on the bucket lid lets me go from the 6" fan opening to the 3" pipe. Inside the van, another series of flanges and couplers let me connect another 6" fan to the pipe. To be honest, I'm not overwhelmed by the breeze. The inside fan seems to blow harder when it's not connected to the pipe. (3rd pic.) I'm using the Scythe fans. I like the low power output, but the CFM is too low, I think. We'll see. This is what I'll have on the playa. Oh yeah, I have a single toggle switch that controls the two fans and the pump from inside. I plan on packing the bucket near the front seats of the van and powering it from the cig lighter while I'm crawling in the entrance line because the van doesn't have AC. :mrgreen:
ImageImage
Image
Looks like a good system. I have two thoughts, one of which has already been covered, re airflow.

#1: As has been mentioned by others, no fan with the specs we're looking at is going to do very well pushing air into a pressure vessel (like a van with doors that seal fairly well) ... you MUST have a way to let the air out, else you're simply pressurizing the van until the fan can't output strongly enough to continue upping the internal pressure. In a yurt, this is why we use air filters (home AC-style) to let the air out... in a van, you'll need to find another way, I suspect. Cracking a window would certainly work, but it also lets playa in, and we're not putting out so much airflow that you truly set up a "positive pressure" system.

#2: Simply in terms of increasing airflow: Looking at your photos, I'd seriously consider some sort of pedestal to raise the bucket up higher. The shorter the outflow tube, the more air you'll get out of the system. There's only so far these small, low-power fans can push air along a tube. Since, I assume, there's really no way to bring the air into the van at a lower place (without cutting into your side wall!), simplest thing is to bring the bucket higher, so shorten that output tube. I really think that'll help noticeably.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:48 pm

I agree with most of what Kman said.

If your roll a window down just enough to balance the pressure you won't get dust unless theres a white out.

Last year my pod had a small sliding window to vent the air out and I had NO dust. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by kman » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:04 pm

The CO wrote:AKB427-

In theory, you want the cooler outside the tent, drawing in the least-humid air possible. The less humidity @ input means more water can evaporate into the air passing through, increasing the amount of temperature reduction @ output.

In practice, I don't know; this is the first one I've built. Figjam? Anyone?
Yes.

The entire scientific principal behind swamp coolers have to do with changes in humidity. The drier the source air, the greater the temperature drop.

I know it seems ideal, and with a normal, traditional freon-based AC system, bringing the system inside to cool the already-cooled air (as long as you can still keep the heat dump out), it would help. But with a swamp cooler, you NEED hot, dry air to evaporate the water, which is what gives the phase change, humidifying the air, and providing the cooling we seek. Cool air won't evaporate the water as quickly, and if you feed the system already-humidified air, again, you get that humidity differential that you need for this system to work.

This chart, which was posted last year when we first started playing with figjam's designs, really says it all, IMO:

Image

Source: http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/hom ... ative.html

Bear in mind this chart was developed referring to commercial swamp coolers which have fairly idealized components... our DIY systems are not likely quite so efficient. But the general concept is the same.

rubymermaid
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rubymermaid » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:12 am

Ok, I was able to switch the fan. I am going to take lots of idiot proof pictures when I get everything together. Luckily I have a cousin with some power tools/knowledge. As you can tell, I am not so tech savvy. I am excited to learn though. Burning Man gifts to me in so many ways. Thank you FIGJAM and Mr. Coffee!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Mr.Coffee » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:00 am

Well, thanks for the thanks, but it's pretty much all FIGJAM on this one.
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rararouge
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rararouge » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:20 am

So i know this is an OLD thread, but I'm going this year and thinking about building this cooler, and pardon my ignorance on all this, but I'm confused about which solar pump to use and the options for the battery. I'd love some input on where to get one (and what's most cost effective).

I'm brining my gmc vandura van, which has a spare battery, could I in theory use that?

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:51 am

This is the 12 volt pump.

http://www.siliconsolar.com/replacement ... p-103.html

The cooler should run all week off your spare battery. 8)
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rararouge
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by rararouge » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:03 am

Thanks FIGJAM. So after much research i'm changing up my game plan and I'm not only a virgin burner, but no nothing about building stuff or power supply (fortunely i have a friend who will help me connect everything, long as i get the right parts) So bare with me while i describe my project and help point me in the right direction please?

I'm thinking about getting this (on sale) to power my pump and a few other needed items. I feel it's a good long term investment: http://www.goalzero.com/shop/p/107/

So here's the background. I have a 1990 GMC vandura i'll be sleeping in - the air conditioning was shot in it long ago and as it turns out, so is the secondary battery. i'm going to build your first model for size and ease of use, i realize it may not cool the whole thing down as well, but i'm really using it for while i sleep during the day. THe van will be under a large (12x30) monkey hut.

other questions:

1. Which pump to get if i buy the solar panels and battery above, do i still need a solar one? If i get solar one will I be able to place panels in sun given that my whole space is under monkey hut?

2. I was goign to get this fan, i assume it'll still work but it was from the way back machine in the thread: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8547/ ... 1108#blank

3. No duracool pads in cali, guess i can order online unless you have another suggestion

4. where to put the swamp cooler so that i have sun access for solar panels. Inside the van will work from what i understand, long as a have air flow. but i could put outside too. I put inside how do i get sun to the solar pump (or use non solar pump? which one)

5. Inside or outside van, best option for creating airflow. I have front windows, and two side windows on passenger side that open, and that's it! so i need to get a fan for that or can i just crack a window?


Lastly, if i decide not to go wiht the battery back and panels described at the top, can you tell me what kind of battery to get at a good cost?

lastly, lastly, you rock, thanks for helping this virgin make her trip a little more comfortable. Can't wait to get out there!

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