cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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The CO
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby The CO » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:08 am

I built my version of Figjams cooler in about 1.5 hours with parts I had around the house. If you are moderately good with tools, you can do it as well.

There are 4 basic parts: a bucket, a pump+hose, a filter & a fan. It's very easy to build. I was showing it off at a camp meet&greet/work party the other day, and now 5 other people in camp are building them.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby porkmuffin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 am

brian_kadence wrote:...

I would love to build a bucket cooler for my tent. Last year, camping was great. Built a great shade structure, but when it came to the tent it was sweltering by morning, and being the light sleeper that I am... I was up every day at 8am having gone to bed at 4am/5am that morning. I was dead tired and it shot my immune system back in default. I was looking to avoid that this year, hopefully by making tent sleeping more comfortable and A LOT cooler.

So, that being said. I'm a little worried about how to power the cooler? It seems one needs a large 12volt deep cycle battery, which from my research shows me they can cost a couple hundred dollars. Are there any cheaper alternatives... or any versions of this cooler that can run off/on over-the-counter batteries or a combination? I won't be using a car to charge any batteries on the playa.

Basically I'm looking to build an evaporative cooler I can create myself and possibly keep inside my tent. Are FIGJAM'S plans far too elaborate for someone like me?


Def not too elaborate. Tooling needs are minimal. However, you need to make sure you can source the parts this late in the game, particularly the fan, pump and cooling pads. Everything else will be at your local home builder store (and these, aside form the fan, might be too).

Costco has Deep Cycle batteries for ~$80 out the door (115 Ah). Plenty for five hours a day of cooling without a recharge or you could run it longer and bring along a charger and a genny (or use your car engine as the gennie if you had to - leave it running!) to top it off midweek.

BTW, the bucket has to be outside in the heat and the air needs to be piped into your tent. The evaporation won't happen if the bucket isn't hot.

Good luck!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:22 am

They don't show it on the web site, but costco has a 115 ah deep cycle battery for$80.

If you run your cooler 5 hrs a day, it will last all week. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby The Bee » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:30 am

brian_kadence wrote:It seems one needs a large 12volt deep cycle battery, which from my research shows me they can cost a couple hundred dollars. Are there any cheaper alternatives... or any versions of this cooler that can run off/on over-the-counter batteries or a combination?

The fans and pumps recommended in this thread all run on 12 volts, so any 12 volt source will work. The benefit of a deep-cycle battery is that it will run a long time without needing a charge. You can use a less-expensive car or motorcycle battery but it may deplete its charge over the course of using it for a week. If you run the battery until it is completely flat, the overall life of the battery is compromised. But if it's a cheap battery that you only use for your bucket cooler, it will still work. A medium-priced alternative is a so-called "marine" battery which should hold a charge longer than a cheap car or motorcycle battery.

Basically I'm looking to build an evaporative cooler I can create myself and possibly keep inside my tent.

Don't forget: keep the bucket outside your tent, and run a dryer-hose or a pipe into the tent. The fan in the bucket has to suck in the hot dry outside air through the moist pad so that the evaporation will happen.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby brian_kadence » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:09 pm

Can I use a small solar power water pump and a battery operated tent fan?

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby brian_kadence » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:00 pm

Thanks for all the help guys! Definitely will be starting A.S.A.P. Can't wait!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby mazatta » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:04 pm

Brian, I'm hoping to do the exact same thing, so I'm really hoping the answer is yes :)

I should have mine built by Saturday at the latest, so I'll let you know how it turns out.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:06 pm

brian_kadence wrote:I would love to build a bucket cooler for my tent. Last year, camping was great. Built a great shade structure, but when it came to the tent it was sweltering by morning, and being the light sleeper that I am... I was up every day at 8am having gone to bed at 4am/5am that morning. I was dead tired and it shot my immune system back in default. I was looking to avoid that this year, hopefully by making tent sleeping more comfortable and A LOT cooler.

So, that being said. I'm a little worried about how to power the cooler? It seems one needs a large 12volt deep cycle battery, which from my research shows me they can cost a couple hundred dollars. Are there any cheaper alternatives... or any versions of this cooler that can run off/on over-the-counter batteries or a combination? I won't be using a car to charge any batteries on the playa.

Basically I'm looking to build an evaporative cooler I can create myself and possibly keep inside my tent. Are FIGJAM'S plans far too elaborate for someone like me?

Your figures are off.

A good 105 amp-hour deep cycle marine battery from Costco runs about $80, if memory serves. Similar (or only a bit higher) prices can be found at Pep Boys, Sears, you name it.

Deep cycle marine batteries are useful for all kinds of things (especially at Burning Man), but yes, if you look at the cost SOLELY as part of the cost of the swamp cooler, it does add a bit to the overall dollar figure.

Two more points:
1) The swamp cooler does not, cannot, be kept INSIDE your tent.
2) From a pure cost standpoint, espcially in a tent, and if you're worried about the cost of the battery, you might be better served by building a Monkey Hut to shade your tent. Plans are readily available on this forum. (Google can probably turn them up, too)

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby porkmuffin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:06 pm

The tent fan is probably not going to be strong enough. Figjam already got me on that one. I tried a larger, similar cfm, yet less pressure/force fan and basically, it doesn't create the updraft in the cooler to really make the evaporator effective. Def go with the Figjam recommended as a minimum.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby porkmuffin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:09 pm

Forgot to mention, that you can use the solar powered pumps..that's what I'm using. The trick with the pump/hosing is to get a even, generous application of water throughout the filter...otherwise the air will just take the easiest path through the dry stuff and the cooling effect will be minimal...you basically just built a really complicated fan. :P

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:11 pm

brian_kadence wrote:Can I use a small solar power water pump and a battery operated tent fan?

Not if you expect it to do any good.

The battery-operated tent fan will give you a nice breeze, but doesn't have the strength needed to pull air through the moist pad in the way needed to produce the actual swamp cooling effect.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby mykalbinds » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:40 pm

Ratpick wrote:But here's my question:
Have any of you used recycled grey water in swamp cooler? I'm thinking it needs to be filtered and then sit with bleach til no more smell before going in cooler. Am I right? Should I pour through charcoal filter in that process somewhere? I'm sorry if this is something that's been covered but tried researching and didn't find this specifically. I read some about the multitude of ways people evaporate off grey water. Well, I built an evaporative cooler that should go through plenty. Just don't want the cool air smellin all nasty.


I was looking into this as well. Any experiences with this? Would a simple filter and bleach be enough?

Thanks!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby unjonharley » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:47 pm

\
How about asking other camper for there ice chest water? Most of it is pretty clean.. If you use bleach, make sure to set the water in the sun until the bleach is gone.. Should only take an hour..

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:55 pm

mykalbinds wrote:
Ratpick wrote:But here's my question:
Have any of you used recycled grey water in swamp cooler? I'm thinking it needs to be filtered and then sit with bleach til no more smell before going in cooler. Am I right? Should I pour through charcoal filter in that process somewhere? I'm sorry if this is something that's been covered but tried researching and didn't find this specifically. I read some about the multitude of ways people evaporate off grey water. Well, I built an evaporative cooler that should go through plenty. Just don't want the cool air smellin all nasty.


I was looking into this as well. Any experiences with this? Would a simple filter and bleach be enough?

Thanks!

Don't use grey water!

You're talking about evaporating and making airborne whatever microorganisms and bacteria are in there, in the little water droplets that get carried inside, and circulating them inside a closed living environment! BAD IDEA.

Naturally, if you're planning to filter the daylights out of it to the point where it would be drinkable, sure, clearly that's fine (if incredibly expensive from a filter cartridge standpoint), but otherwise, look to outdoor evaporators as a good way to reduce grey water... do NOT put it in your swamp cooler!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Yeah, what they said. :lol: 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby billvon » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:38 am

brian_kadence wrote:Can I use a small solar power water pump and a battery operated tent fan?


Both are going to be pretty underpowered. If you want to run them via a solar system, then a regular 12V fan and a 12V pump (as listed in the first post) and a medium sized panel (20-30 watts) would work pretty well. The demand for cooled air is going to be mostly sun-synchronous (fancy term for "it will be hot when the sun is out") so you can probably get away without a battery as long as your pump and fan can tolerate some voltage swing.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:02 am

billvon wrote:
brian_kadence wrote:Can I use a small solar power water pump and a battery operated tent fan?


Both are going to be pretty underpowered. If you want to run them via a solar system, then a regular 12V fan and a 12V pump (as listed in the first post) and a medium sized panel (20-30 watts) would work pretty well. The demand for cooled air is going to be mostly sun-synchronous (fancy term for "it will be hot when the sun is out") so you can probably get away without a battery as long as your pump and fan can tolerate some voltage swing.

The small Harbor Freight solar pump that works well (see post 1) is solely solar powered. The problem is, a lot of the solar-powered pumps you find out there are under-powered... the HF one is just barely good enough to get the job done. It's tricky lining up all the specs to make sure the pump has sufficient lift to get the water moving from the bottom of the bucket to the top, especially if you have less-than-completely-perfect direct sunlight. I could hear my solar pump getting weaker every time a cloud went overhead, when it was running last year. Plus, it's been discontinued and is really hard to find now. Also, the majority of "pre-packaged" solar-only pumps are just that... solar-only. The panels they come with put out 6v, so without getting into some soldering and electronics work to step down the voltage from a 12v battery, you can't really count on the battery as a backup. No such problems with the true 12v pump from Silicon Solar, as linked in the first post, which is also MUCH stronger... no worries about output levels whatsoever, and as long as you have power, the output will be completely consistent.

Directly-powered solar fans would have the same issues... blowing strongly (or perhaps TOO strongly... over-voltage could fry the fan) in true direct sunlight, and slowing WAY down when the light is less-than perfect.

That's why the ideal situation would be a solar panel recharging a battery, which is used to power the fans and pumps. But frankly, depending on how much time you're spending in your tent or yurt with the cooler up and running, there's likely no need to recharge with most commonly-used deep cycle marine batteries, since the standard ~105 amp-hour size will easily power your rig for 5 hours per day all week without the need for recharging. So unless you're stuck at camp and running it a lot more than that, or trying to run a bunch of other 12v stuff off the same battery every night, you don't even need to worry about recharging it until you get home. (and don't forget, even if you can't find someone with a generator to slip a few bucks for a recharge, worst case you could always connect it to your car and run the engine for a while, recharging it with your alternator)

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:21 am

Bravo Kman!

I could'nt have said it better.

You're saving me a lot of typing, thank you! 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby JoeJoe » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:12 am

so I'm thinking about using a solar pump with battery backup that I've found online. here's the description:
3W Amorphous Solar Panel
6-10V DC Brushless Pump with 10 Feet Cable
Aluminum Frame with plastic spike set fountain head (5 pcs)
Control housing with Lead-acid battery 6V-4AH fountain light 3 white LED
Operate day and night with water valve and timer works everyday automatically by preset working time
Feature: Water lift Max: 1.2 Meter
Water flow max: 100 L/H
Solar Panel Size: 7-1/4" x 16-1/4" x 1"
Water Pump Size: 2.5" x 1-3/8" x 2-1/4" (LxWxH)

Probably have to have it shipped out to reno (i'm in NC) and assemble everything out there. Ideally this solves the cloud problem...

Thinking about using a battery powered fan though, something like one of these:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=15992435&findingMethod=rr which is a 5"
or perhaps a 10" like this: http://www.target.com/1071-10-Inch-Battery-Electric-Portable/dp/B002VEDG5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&searchView=grid5&keywords=battery%20fan&fromGsearch=true&sr=1-1&qid=1313604661&rh=&searchRank=target104545&id=1071%2010-Inch%20Battery%20Electric%20Portable&node=1038576|1287991011&searchSize=30&searchPage=1&searchNodeID=1038576|1287991011&searchBinNameList=subjectbin%2Cprice%2Ctarget_com_primary_color-bin%2Ctarget_com_size-bin%2Ctarget_com_brand-bin&frombrowse=0

Do you guys think they'd push enough air to be effective? i'm sure I can duct tape them into the lid adequately with some work...

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:20 am

I tested 02 cool fans.

Their no good for this project.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby JoeJoe » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:39 am

not enough air pushed i assume then? If I buy the solar with battery indicated above I could splice a couple computer fans in place of the unneeded LED light it comes with... only thing is I won't be able/have time to test it as I'd have to get it shipped to reno (yes my own fault for waiting so long to think of this). Not really much of an electronics guy anyway soooooo unsure of the splicing...

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:28 pm

I would really give up the idea of an off-the-shelf battery powered fan. None of them have enough oompf to move the kind of air that's needed.

The problem is you're moving air through a restriction... the wet pad. So a fan that feels great in the open air, if it doesn't have the raw power behind it, loses it's suction when you seal it into a closed system and restrict the airflow to it.

One of the most important specs you're looking for, in terms of computer fans, is the "air pressure" (or static pressure) usually measured in terms of millimeters of water (mmH2O). This is a test rating of how powerful the fan is, i.e., how much far can it push some liquid mercury down a tube? Because pushing air against restriction is what's needed for our purposes. It's hard to find this spec for all fans, as it's rarely included in the specs, but when it is, you can get a REAL solid handle on just how well one fan compares to another.

That number, in combination with airflow number (minimum 125cfm, the more the better... 200cfm+ is outstanding) is what gives the fan the raw power that's needed.

The problem with most open air fans, tent fans, etc. is that while they can move a decent amount of air in an open air setting, i.e., sit it on the counter and feel a nice breeze on your face, as soon as there is any restriction they lose the ability to push. That's the problem with big NZXT 200cm that people keeping trying to buy, which Figjam tested and determined to be pretty useless for our needs. People see 166 cfm compared to other fans, but the 1.82 mm H2O rating is what tells the true story... it can't even push water TWO mm into the test tube. Compare, just for kicks, to the insane Delta fan ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556090687.html ), which moves the same water a whopping 27mm!!! (This Delta would work really well for our purposes, but (a) it's a really expensive fan, (b) it's LOUD, and (c) it draws 2.7 amps(!), a whole lot of juice compared to others)

We're in a catch-22 position, as far as computer fans. They're really the only type seemingly well-suited for our needs, since they're 12v (i.e., the right voltage to easily run off deep cycle marine batteries), they're a nice size, they're inexpensive, they're readily available, and they're designed to not use a huge amount of power. Unfortunately, they're also frequently designed to be as quiet as possible, which means low RPMs, which really kills the "push" power of the fans... something that's not usually needed in a normally well-ventilated computer case.

Once you start getting to really high end fans like the Delta I linked, you may as well start looking at the Endless Breeze fan, which is plenty strong, quite power efficient, and useful in applications other than a swamp cooler (normal camping, etc.) since it's designed to be plugged into a cigarette lighter. http://www.amazon.com/Fan-Tastic-Vent-0 ... B0000AY2Z6

If anyone is interested, without wading through all 35 pages of this thread, we had a good discussion about fan specs last year, starting around here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33842&p=566341#p566341
Last edited by kman on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:29 pm

JoeJoe wrote:not enough air pushed i assume then? If I buy the solar with battery indicated above I could splice a couple computer fans in place of the unneeded LED light it comes with... only thing is I won't be able/have time to test it as I'd have to get it shipped to reno (yes my own fault for waiting so long to think of this). Not really much of an electronics guy anyway soooooo unsure of the splicing...

The battery listed in your specs above is 6v. Computer fans need 12v.

That solar panel is not going to be strong enough to push the pump and the fans at the same time. The LEDs lights sip a tiny amount of juice compared to moving a fan, especially one with enough oomf to get the job done.

The pump is probably fine, but your fan ideas won't do what you're looking for.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kman » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:06 pm

I'm curious about this fan:

http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product ... ct_id=2945

It's PWM, so you may need a controller for it to work correctly, which adds to the cost, but it's reasonably-priced. Not a huge CFM rating, but it's got good oomf... the static pressure rating is 3.90 mmH2O and it's designed to push through restrictive fins in water-cooled computer systems. I'd be curious to see how it compares to fans like the Scythe Kaze, which has a higher CFM rating but perhaps less oomf (I can't recall if I've seen the actual mmH2O rating for the Kaze series), so the lower CFM fan MAY actually out-perform the higher-rated Kaze. I wonder if there's a non-PWM version of the same fan?

Ah, the joys of browsing fan specs on the internets... it's a sickness, I tell you! LOL

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Mojojita » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:13 pm

Figjam, you are such a hero. Thank you so much for these gifts to your community (drink)!!!!!! I can't wait to hug the stuffing out of you on the playa.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:53 pm

Mojojita wrote:Figjam, you are such a hero. Thank you so much for these gifts to your community (drink)!!!!!! I can't wait to hug the stuffing out of you on the playa.


Sssssssshhhhhhhh, someone will hear you! Thank you for telling me your measurements. Oooooohhhh mmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyy!!! 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby objuan22 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:03 pm

In regard to the 5 gal. bucket, how large should the holes be cut?

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:11 pm

Any size you like, as long as there are enough of them. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby unjonharley » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:45 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Any size you like, as long as there are enough of them. 8)



Went back to your OP.. You did not say what size hole saw you used..

The holes look pretty good.. So give it up..

fuck i'm better than the Fig, just ask me

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:47 pm

unjonharley wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:Any size you like, as long as there are enough of them. 8)



Went back to your OP.. You did not say what size hole saw you used..

The holes look pretty good.. So give it up..

fuck i'm better than the Fig, just ask me


I think they were 2"!

How is your broke ass anyway! :wink:

Hope you're feeling better. 8)
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