cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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wolfraider
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by wolfraider » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Based on the feedback I received on my last design, I modified it to "double up" on my fan output. Does this seem like I may have solved my intake issue? I had a fog machine around so I figured I'd do some smoke tests to illustrate how much air is going through.

I also went back to the blue mesh with the pvc innards which get fully soaked when the pump is running. The PVC and mesh fit snuggly into the top of the bin so there are no air gaps up there. And yes, I have a duct adapter and tubing to feed into the tent, and am going to have a strong thick layer of heavy duty tape around the edges where the fan is bolted on.

Does this look better to ya'll? Thanks for the advice!

Image

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:22 pm

Hard to tell how much CFM you're pushing with still pics but that looks much better. As long as you don't notice a 'large' change when you slightly lift the top section to allow air to bypass the Blue Mesh (poly), you should be good! There will be some change, but it should sound like when you change out a dirty, plugged air filter in the home A/C. Nice idea on the smoke machine!!

I've been using mine in the garage, you know, for science and testing. :wink: (Its 110'F daily here now) I've timed how much water it goes through too many times to count. Pouring in a gallon at a time. I think I've run 50+ some gals through it already. At this rate I will need to replace the media before I leave to BM. LOL (We have very hard water here.) When the dew point is below 40'F, temp above 100'F, I can evap 1.5+ gals/hr.

Mine actually does better with the bin full of water. I believe it has to do with the smaller surface area for air flow when the water level is high. 1.5+gal/hr full, drops to 1gal+/hr when almost empty. Holds 6 gallons total.

I'll try to get some pics, but to better disperse the water I flipped the header hose so the holes point up. Then I cut up a t-shirt and tried to become Ratty. :D Pulled out the sewing machine and made a cloth tube out of strips of t-shirt. Slide the tube over the header hose. Now the header fills the space between the header tubing and the t-shirt tube. Allowing water to spread more evenly over my media pads. Ice Machines use a similar, though plastic, type of header to allow even ice thickness for each harvest.

The media I am using can be seen by the piece sticking out of the overflow tub in front. It's an 'expanded paper' type similar to 'Aspen pads' but thicker and flows more air than poly pads. Problem is HD did not have the pre-cut panels when I was building so I had to go to an HVAC wholesale house and by a giant roll. I have media for 5 of these things now..... :roll:

sorry for the 'HTC One purple haze'.... :oops:
IMAG1749a.jpg
Being a grey water evap unit, I am draining grey water from the RMC, (Rolling Man Cave) to the 5 gal bucket. I have valve on the tubing from bucket to bin. I will bleach/chlorine, (haven't decide yet) treat the water in the bucket and it gets filtered twice. Once entering the bucket and again entering the bin. I have tried a few different soaps doing shower tests for water amount per shower and suds generation. The 'Body Wash' (ie liquid) soaps suds like a bad boy and turns the bin into a 'sudsy bath tub'. :shock: Bar soap dilutes much better and does not 'suds up' in the bin. It's more like Dishwasher soap, suds-less.
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2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:53 pm

Tubing Sleeve pics. The green media is called 'CoolPad Cooler Media'. Lowe's carries this type with poly bonded to one side. I used this in my home evap. The poly helps to remove more dirt and slows the air down a tad to get some more evaporation. Here is the same thing less poly.
IMAG1757a.jpg
IMAG1758a.jpg
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2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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Roundabout
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Roundabout » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:59 pm

Eldergeekaz, I think I love your wet T shirt wrap idea. I have trouble getting my media uniformly wet despite having more than adequate pumping, and a well designed header. I am going to add the T shirt wrap and see if it helps. Thanks!
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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:03 pm

Cool, I played with three of four header setups. Never could get full coverage, all the time. The sleeve took care of it. :mrgreen:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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Leap
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:21 am

I'm having fun testing my FIGJAM! I know I have enough airflow but I am still concerned about the water. Any thoughts on water flow in the last few seconds of this short video?

https://vimeo.com/175120932

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:21 pm

The flow looks good, but it looks like there's a gap between the lid and the fan. :?
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Jackass
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Jackass » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:35 pm

wolfraider wrote:Based on the feedback I received on my last design, I modified it to "double up" on my fan output. Does this seem like I may have solved my intake issue? I had a fog machine around so I figured I'd do some smoke tests to illustrate how much air is going through.

I also went back to the blue mesh with the pvc innards which get fully soaked when the pump is running. The PVC and mesh fit snuggly into the top of the bin so there are no air gaps up there. And yes, I have a duct adapter and tubing to feed into the tent, and am going to have a strong thick layer of heavy duty tape around the edges where the fan is bolted on.

Does this look better to ya'll? Thanks for the advice!

Image

Image

Image
Dude, I'd just run the fog machine all of the time out there, forget the cooler, the constant fog is bad-ass. People will think your tent is on fire...

When you wake up and come out of the tent you will appear as though you materialized out of thick air! Like some kind of magic trick. Fuck with your neighbor's minds!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Leap
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:52 am

FIGJAM wrote:The flow looks good, but it looks like there's a gap between the lid and the fan. :?
Affirmative on the gap... great eye. This was temporarily tacked on with a longer screw that wouldn't create a tight seal. I need stubbier, shorter screws for the final mount.

I ran this for a few hours with very good results. Even though it was VERY humid yesterday, there was noticeable difference in air temperature coming out of the cooler. The panel must provide most of the power because very little of the 12 ah battery was drained. A 100+ ah deep cycle should make this worry free. I have a back up 150ish CFM fan (above is 200) and 2 60 gph pumps for back up.

LowePro
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:41 pm

"I need stubbier, shorter screws for the final mount. "
And a layer or silicon sealer. A 12 Amp hour battery might not last too long in the morning. Try running this at 9am, that's when the playa heat starts cooking people in tents and unshaded structures. Does it last a few hours? Sprinkle baby powder on the panel every 2 to 3 hours all day. Does it recharge enough in 1 day to recharge what was used in the morning? That's more realistic testing. Good luck!

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Leap
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:52 pm

Thanks! I thought about silicon but figured it would melt. The 12 ah batter is just for testing. Going to pick up a fat ass 100+ deep cycle when I get to Reno.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:03 pm

Aha, you'll be fine! I run a very similar solar/battery setup and it keeps up just fine with a couple hours of swampie each day, a few LEDs at night, and a camera-recharge a few times a week.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:57 pm

With a 100+AH battery, I run 5 to 6 hours a day all week without a recharge.

Gets down to about 50%/
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Leap
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Leap » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:59 pm

Perfect! Then I won't get close to burning out my battery. It will make for a pleasant, functional gift.

wolfraider
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by wolfraider » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:01 pm

Dude, I'd just run the fog machine all of the time out there, forget the cooler, the constant fog is bad-ass. People will think your tent is on fire...

When you wake up and come out of the tent you will appear as though you materialized out of thick air! Like some kind of magic trick. Fuck with your neighbor's minds!
It would look really sweet in combo with the LED strips I got. ;-)

Now, it burns about 450 watts of power via 120volt power. With a car inverter my math says it's only 3.75 amps. Is that true? Would my deep cycle hold that ok?

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Jackass
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Jackass » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:35 pm

It would take down your battery in short order, you'd need a small genny for those kind of power requirements.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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KennyReff
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by KennyReff » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:00 pm

Two quick questions...

1. My local Home Depot did not have the blue DuraCool pads. Is this NatualAire pad OK to use? I'm not sure it has the same texture. It seems pretty porous.

2. Are the holes which are cut in the bucket about 2.5" and are there about 10 of them?

Thanks!
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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:31 pm

Let's run the numbers.

A = π r2 = π x 1.25sqrd ≈ 4.90874sqr inches

times 10 = just under 50 sqr inches of free area. Your 200mm fan has just under 8sqr inches. If you are still using the bucket & fan you listed up the page, the free area should be fine fine.

That filter media will work, Just be sure you are wetting it 100%. The expanded paper pad I use will allow sugar to fall through it. Porous is not a bad thing with evap cooling as long as there is enough water dripping everywhere for the air to come into contact with it. Flip your header upside down and add a tee-shirt sleeve if you have coverage issues.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:06 pm

You may have to sandwich that pad between something like chicken wire to make it stand up in the bucket.
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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:34 pm

If its what I think it is it's pretty stiff, but yea, Chicken wire FTW! :coffee:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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KennyReff
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by KennyReff » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:40 pm

Turns out I can get the blue Dura Cool on Amazon. Think I'll play it safe and get that one.

Am I right on the holes in the bucket? 2.5" in diameter and about 10 of them? Thanks again.


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KennyReff
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by KennyReff » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:51 pm

One last thing... I'm hoping I can get away with this 35ah battery



I've been reading about people using 100ah batteries, but jeez, they get expensive and heavy.

I'll be running a fan using 1.6 amps and a pump using 0.5 amps, and will have a 20w solar panel connected. I only plan to run it 9a to 5p or so. If my math is correct, I'm using 2.1 amps over 8 hours = 16.8ah. That's less than 50% of a 35ah battery. Also, since I have a 20w solar panel connected, shouldn't that be providing 1.6 amps during the strong sun hours? So a 35ah battery should be fine, right?

Thanks for your help, everyone.

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:55 pm

KR, see my post above on the holes.....
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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KennyReff
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by KennyReff » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:31 am

Hi eldergeekaz. Thanks for the details, but it went way over my head, especially because I didn't see a "2.5" (referring to the diameter of the holes) in the formula anywhere. I have taken everyone's advice about using a higher pressure fan and just ordered this one:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8556/ ... 6c435s1108

So, with this fan and a 4" exhaust tube feeding the yurt, how many 2.5" holes do you think should I have?

And the last item I'm trying to get confidence on is the 35ah battery, details posted above.

Thanks so much!

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:15 am

8 to 10 on the holes.

Power consumption is by the hour, as in 2.1 amps per hour.

Don't know where you got 8 hours.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:11 am

I just drilled 2 and a half inch holes in a bucket for my niece.

Got 11 holes roughly 1" apart.

Found the same fan on amazon for $24.48.
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LowePro
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:28 am

Kenneth, I'm not going to grade your math homework, but just give you some thoughts for your word problem
1) not everything performs to spec, esp on playa where it's very hot and dusty. Your solar panel will not operate at 100% spec, even at high noon. Dust and heat rob efficiency. Sometimes it's cloudy.
2) Fan and cpu might pull more power than rated. Battery might not last up to spec, given intense heat.
3) You realistically won't be running it 9 to 5. Do you plan to stay in your yurt all day? Or get out to do BMan stuff during the day?

Worst case you can run jumper cables and recharge your battery with the car running a few hours, so it'll all be fine, but keep these things in mind when doing "playa math".

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KennyReff
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by KennyReff » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:24 pm

Figjam, responding to your question on the 8 hours and the amp hours. I'm not versed on electrical engineering, so I'm just trying to get confirmation that I'm doing this correctly. Here's how I've calculated that a 35ah battery will be sufficient:

The pump is 0.5 amps. The fan is 1.6 amps. So, I'm pulling 2.1 amps per hour.
I plan to run it no more than 8 hours per day (and possibly less), so I need 16.8 amp hours prior to recharging
Therefore, a 35ah battery should suffice.

Also, a 20w solar panel will be in line; If I've got my math right, the 20 watt, 12v panel will put out 1.6 amps, further reducing the drain on the battery.

Does this make sense. Do I have this right? Thanks again!

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:21 pm

Kenny, I used this link. Enter the radius in the box, in this case, 1.25 radius for a 2.5 diameter hole. (2.5/2 = 1.25)

Below this graphic is a down arrow, click it and it shows the math worked out in series. Just like high school..... :wink:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

LowePro
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:22 pm

35ah battery is pretty small for a week, but might be do-able:

Assuming everything operates at spec (which is a faulty assumption at best):
Your gross consumption is 2.1 amps/hour.
The solar panel will be generating at the same time, assuming it's 100% efficient for a 8hour shift (also a faulty assumption) means the solar panel will put out 1.6 amps/hour. In the early morning and late afternoon, the solar panel is no longer generating much, if any power.

So your net consumption per hour is 0.5 amps:
At 8 hours a day, that's 4 amp hours consumed per day (net)

So each day you use up 4 amp hours. Day by day, you have this much left:
Day 1: 31 ah
Day 2: 27
Day 3: 23
Day 4: 19
Day 5: 15
Day 6: 11 (here you're dropping into low-battery territory)
Day 7: 7

So yeah in theory it would last a week. But not a lot of room for error or real-world conditions. The solar panel will not produce full power all 8 hours per day. You'll be lucky to get full power from noon to 2. Assuming avg 50% output from the panel is more realistic, in which case your net consumption is 1.3 amps/hour and 10.4 ah per day, and your battery will only last thru 3.5 days.

Fixes: Don't run swampie all day, or bigger battery, or bigger panel, or jumper-cable recharge periodically. All are do-able and will get you thru the burn just fine.

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