cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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legionvr6
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by legionvr6 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Little nugget of good info (I hope)
Old Dell optiplex computers appear to be a great source for high CFM fans. Pulled a 150 out of one and a 127 out of another. They were heading for E-Waste so no need for them any more.

Anyone try running dual fan? thinking about using both side by side to make a makeshift 277CFM fan setup. Feel free to tell me that it doesn't work that way. I've never built one of these before

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:32 pm

Yup! I use them for grey water evap. This Bin style holds 6 gals of water, evap at 2gals per hour in the heat of the day, 1-1.5 the other times.

I am building a larger trashcan style that hold 12gals. 24"tall x 15"dia media cartridge, 8" Radiator fan, dual pumps.
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2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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madlaw
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by madlaw » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:44 am

Hey I was hoping someone could double check that I am buying the right gear

Dial 3074 Dura Cool Pad High Efficiency Foamed Polyester Pad 30 " x 36 "


Learn To Brew LLC Food Grade Vinyl Tubing - 10 feet 5/16 ID - 7/16 OD


Anself Ultra-quiet Mini 4.8W DC12V Micro Brushless Water Oil Pump Submersible


Any help would be appreciated

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EGAZ
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:51 pm

Don't forget the fan.

An option to the PVC fitting is rigid dryer duct. Mount the fan 'on top' of the lid. Shape the duct to a square and work it onto the fan. Wrap with a towel or bubble wrap for some insulation.

Search around on the Jungle as they do have a two pack for those pumps. Good to have a spare.

I use this pump

Time to start buildin' :coffee:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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madlaw
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by madlaw » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:07 pm

Thanks, this is the fan I'm using PartsCollection 12V Super High-Speed 120mm Brushless Fan AFB1212SHE-CF00

on a side note, I don't know why the Amazon links im posting won't display.

what width tubing do you use with that pump

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:53 pm

I believe they have a filter for amazon, CL, etc.

The fans are the same, note model#.
The pump uses 1/2" ID tubing. Grab a 1/2" x 5/16" x 5/16" tee for your header.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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madlaw
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by madlaw » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Thanks so much.

Any advice on how to wire it. My camp has generators so I don't think I have to worry about batteries/solar, I think I can just plug it in.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by BBadger » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:22 pm

You should ask the people in your camp about how to appropriately wire into their system. If they can provide AC power (i.e. what would connect to the outlets on your wall), search for "wire 12V fan to AC power" on google or something similar. You may need to do some soldering and testing.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 pm

Don't plug into the 12VDC jacks on the gennys. They are not regulated and will smoke both pumps and fans. Ask me how I know this. :oops:

You need something like this 120VAC to 12VDC converter. Then get one of these to connect to your pump/fan.

10 amps DC is more than enough for the fan & pump. and it takes as low as 100VAC, in case you have a long extension cord and some voltage drop.

Red wires from both the fan & pump to red wire on the female plug. Same for the black wires. On the fan there is a third blue wire. Just tape or heat shrink it off as its a speed signal to the motherboard of PCs. I solder & heat shrink mine but if you don't solder these will work too.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:25 pm

I've always said that if you have 110 AC power, buy 110 AC parts for the cooler.

You can probably get everything "off the shelf" building this way, so no shopping online.
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sharpstick
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by sharpstick » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:41 pm

One option for versatility is to use 12 VDC fan and pumps and get a 110VAC to 12VDC converter. This is safer because you don't have 110V near the water, and if you come back from year to year with or without shore power, you will be equipped. (I also recommend spare components. The playa gods require regular sacrifices.)

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Kelsier » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:37 am

Just starting to get my supplies to build a bucket cooler this year. Trying to read through the whole thread but am only on page 30 or so so far. Have a (Hopefully) quick question or two.

Concerning the Dura Cool pads, should we go with model 3074 or 3073? I see both on Amazon; the 3073 pads are a bit smaller, but priced much less. 3074 is around $27 while the 3073 is $8. Since I'll be making two layers anyway, is the 3073 sufficient?

Also, what's a good GPH flow rate? The pumping I'm looking at is 60gph but I can certainly get a stronger one if this won't make the pads saturated enough.

Off to read more pages!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:19 am

Assuming I found the same links you are looking at, note the 3073 pd takes two months to ship, probably from China. Also note there is another size to select on the 3074 which is a bit cheaper. Also HomeDepot, Lowes and some Walmarts carry these too.

What pump are you looking at? The one listed? If so it will work. Others disagree but I like a bit more water so I use this one. Might be better if you are double stacking the media. Takes 1/2" ID tubing.
Last edited by EGAZ on Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Kelsier
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Kelsier » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:36 am

EGAZ wrote:Assuming I found the same links you are looking at, note the 3073 pd takes two months to ship, probably from China. Also note there is another size to select on the 3074 which is a bit cheaper. Also HomeDepot, Lowes and some Walmarts carry these too.
I didn't notice the long delay in shipping, but I was going to check my local Home Depot first anyway. If they happen to have both, will the thinner / less expensive one work? When I research the swamp coolers frequently I see people mentioning the pads for $9 or less.
EGAZ wrote:What pump are you looking at? The one listed? If so it will work. Others disagree but I like a bit more water so I use this one. Might be better if you are double stacking the media. Takes 1/2" ID tubing.
Both of those pumps are more beefy than the one I was looking at. Mine was only 60 gph.


I'm not above getting a stronger pump or the thicker Dura Cool pads. I am just trying to not increase the power drain and cost much if I'm not going to get any extra benefit.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:01 pm

SORRY!!!! :oops: I funked up the pump links above. Fixed now. :oops: Which should answer your pump question.

In your case where you want to double stack the media I would go with the thinner pads. If only single stack, the thicker pad. The reason is the air flow restriction. Thicker pads means more restriction. Thicker pads means more pump. :coffee:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Kelsier
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Kelsier » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:50 pm

Thanks that helps. Not the same pump but similar stats.

As for double or single pads, I'm trying to mimic FIGJAM's setup as closely as possible as I don't have the motivation or knowledge to go through the trial and error he has already done. Stick with what works!
I believe he said doubling up the pads gives a larger surface area for the tube ring up top to drip, and will help hold it in centered in place.

The thinner pads are cheaper, so that works for me. :mrgreen:
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Joshrh » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:42 am

Has anyone tried a higher powered solar fan, like this one or similar?

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:23 am

Joshrh wrote:Has anyone tried a higher powered solar fan, like this one or similar?
That type is for moving air, venting an attic or a small barn. Not meant for the pressure application of pulling air through a filter.
And look at the spillage around the blades.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by sharpstick » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:04 pm

Kelsier wrote: . . .
I believe he said doubling up the pads gives a larger surface area for the tube ring up top to drip, and will help hold it in centered in place.

The thinner pads are cheaper, so that works for me. :mrgreen:
I put spacers between the pads and the bucket walls. If not, the air flowing in just passes through the holes and straight though those round parts of the pad that is exposed. with spacers, the air will flow into the bucket holes and into the gap and then pass through a larger square area of the pad surface. (Sorry, I can't remember what I spaced with. Maybe pool noodle chunks?)

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:44 pm

This is true. I space 1-1.5" between the bucket wall and the media. Just need another ring at the top to keep air from bypassing the media.
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2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:09 pm

sharpstick wrote: I put spacers between the pads and the bucket walls. If not, the air flowing in just passes through the holes and straight though those round parts of the pad that is exposed. with spacers, the air will flow into the bucket holes and into the gap and then pass through a larger square area of the pad surface. (Sorry, I can't remember what I spaced with. Maybe pool noodle chunks?)
That space between the bucket wall and the filter pad is a key component.

Image

The blue pads result in a much larger surface area of water-to-air as the water flows through the pad. And as Figjam designed the bucket cooler, the wetted pad has enough resistance to air moving freely through the filter that the incoming air flow will not pass only directly aligned with the holes, but the vacuum pressure to the inside of the tubed filter pad will suck air through the filter over it's whole exposed area. This distributed air flow avoids creating dry spots in the filter pad, that would let hot dusty air pass through.

Pads with too large size of air passages means the vacuum pressure can be satisfied by the area aligned with the bucket wall holes, and one can end up with dry spots and limited cooling due to the airflow being exposed to a greatly reduced water-to-air surface area.

There's a lot to why his designs work. Substitute or modify and don't expect the same results. If you're like me and like to play with designs, fine, but if you're building something that you want or need to work on Playa, then don't substitute or modify.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:53 am

Canoe wrote:There's a lot to why his designs work. Substitute or modify and don't expect the same results. If you're like me and like to play with designs, fine, but if you're building something that you want or need to work on Playa, then don't substitute or modify.
Which reminds me, too large an intake hole can be overwhelmed by high wind speeds. A sufficient number of smaller holes can easily meet the incoming airflow requirement while limiting how much air can get stuffed in by high winds.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

SeehoWeasy
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by SeehoWeasy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:00 pm

just want to make sure i'm on the right track, i'm a fledgling maker and burner. specifically in reference to a FIGJAM style build, just make sure my math and concepts are sound.

I'm planning to use one large aspen pad (sized at 34" and 28"), to basically just double the height of the pad cylinder into a slightly tighter coil than the original FIGJAM, through the middle of two marginally stacked buckets by cutting out the inside of the bottom bucket lid to make a tight fit with the top bucket, which will have it's bottom cut out and seal it on the top side, still leaving the bucket lid removable)

the thinking is that i get a bigger reservoir and hopefully still get good pull on the air through the fan inside the cylinder, and then line the outside of the pads with mesh.

i also want to the top lid fitted with a pour spout for easy water refilling, while still leaving space for the fan installation and i plan to run duct from the cooler to the top of a large tent, dropping the air from above and fashion a small duct tape and cardboard flap vent for inside the tent that can be popped in or out easily depending on use to keep out dust but still provide for possible air circulation.

FAN: i have a 199.7cfm fan that runs on 12v dc w/ 1.95A (my wattage should be 23.4w, correct?)

PUMP: i have a 240L/H 9.8 ft lift pump that runs on 12v dc and consumes 4.2w (my amperage should be .35A, correct?)

i have decided to go against a solar power for the time being, and i want to run these lines parallel to a single source. (some deep cycle battery or jump start battery. i am trying to determine a suitable Ah for the battery, and that's part of what i need help with.

if i'm correct my total combined usage should be 2.2A on 12v dc power using 26.4w per hour according to my math, but also when i add combined wattage not according to formula i get 27.6 w

(23.4w plus 4.2w equals 27.6w, but 12v dc times 2.2A (which is the combined amperage) equals 26.4w)

26.4 definitely seems to be the right answer when i go back and check through, and i know there is probably a simple reason for this, but like i said i'm brand spanking new to this.

given that i am correct, or close, or not at all, what did i do wrong and what does this setup mean for a 100ah battery and what would 4-5 hours take off a battery that size?

should i get a smaller or bigger battery, i am trying to stay on the conservative side, probably a max of four hours a day, but i will be out at burning man for about 12 days this year, and while i DO potentially have access to a recharge from a camp generator, i am curious what the best option might be.

thanks!!

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by EGAZ » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:12 pm

This link might be what you need.

While Aspen pads are one of the better medias to use for residential evap cooling normally, (Besides Cell deck & Bonded Paper Pads) I strongly suggest not using them for a bucket cooler. They might be fine all week IF you build a solid cage to hold it. Tube or not, when aspen gets wet is gets very flimsy and will not support itself. Any movement of the bucket will cause the aspen pieces to settle in the netting causing large air gaps. I suggest Bonded Paper Cooler pad or go back to the poly pads.

Also don't make the 'tube' to narrow. It will suck water off the pad into the fan. My bucket pic above is almost too small of a diameter tube. Had to mess with the header tube to keep it from happening.

You basically increased the media surface area and water volume in the bucket using the same pump and fan. What is the reason for doing this?
So you don't have to fill it as often?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Popeye » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:12 pm

That 2.2A total draw is pretty close to the original configuration. However you are are doing more work- lifting the water higher and pushing the air further and higher. Might not make a lot of difference but I'd check pump curves and fan output. The specs in an ad are often for max height of lift and gpm at pump output, not real world.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:39 am

Those specs show 2.3amps per hour of use. (mine is under 2amps)

Best battery life means don't discharge below 50%.

100AH battery mean 50 usable AHs.

4 hrs a day will use close to 10 of those hours.

So realistically, you can go 5 days with that set up before recharge.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:10 am

Seeho: Regarding the fillup of water, it's not hard and you don't need to modify the lid with a special spout. Just bring a normal funnel, put the tip of the funnel into the side air-hole of your bucket and pour water in that way. Easy and no extra holes or mods required.

Why are you stacking 2 buckets? Is that just for a larger water reservoir? My cooler only needs filled once a day so it's not really a problem that needs solving. They also make 7 gallon buckets which are a taller version of a 5gal bucket so that may meet your needs more simply.

FJ's design is pretty thoroughly tested/vetted and works great if you stick to the spec, just sayin. If you prove me wrong, come back and share your results! Best luck.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by SeehoWeasy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:13 am

i totally typed up a long reply and it deleted, smh. here we go

first off i'll say thanks for responding, everyone!

figjam, if i may ask, what is the appropriate way to calculate total amperage across multiple sources? i added laterally and that is, as you say, incorrect. thanks!

i did know about peak deep cycle usage being 50% and above, i do plan to have some sort of recharging device available, so 2 plus full charges would work with a 100AH, thanks again.

popeye, i will look at it all again but 1 gal a minute SEEMS like it'd be enough but i'm not married to the pump, it's just in the cart.

the bottom part of the pad would be substantially submerged and the lift of 9 feet versus an added height of an additional 14 in doesn't seem excessive, are actual returns vs peak performance that variable?

and egaz, thanks for that tip. the aspen pad i selected DOES have some aluminum bracing, but it doesn't look that substantial and if like you say, they get really soft, then 10 plus days on the playa could be too much, especially with my intent for them to be a third to halfway submerged most of the time.

i dont intend to make the tube TOO narrow, i only want a .5 - 1.5 inch gap between and pads (depending on taper) and yes i wanted to increase evaporative potential with a higher surface area and not have to fill the bucket as much, without worrying about like, gravity feeding or pumping in from a second bucket or all that, i wasn't trying to improve anything as much as fit my needs. also the entire top bucket gets the three inch holes, and leaves the bottom bucket to be almost full as a reservoir (5 gallons!!)

i am trying to cool a 12x8x6.5 ozark trail tent that will be substantially shaded (carport, aluminet), but with my calculations for air change every 3 min at a 624 cubic foot space (a little less than, really) about 200cfm was right on target. i just wanted the evaporation to be efficient.

does that sound right?

most of this just goes to show what plenty have said, the original figjam is a trusty design, but will the original cool a tent of my size?

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by SeehoWeasy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:16 am

well they sell those special lids with the pour spout for not too much more, so that was my thinking there, but obviously there is more than one way to "skin a cat".

i definitely get that refilling it once a day is an insignificant task, i was just counting on hungover, sleepy, or lazy Seeho to show up at some point, and criticize my lack of forethought.

and yeah, i agree that i don't need to change much, i just wasn't sure about the output for my tent size.

the figjam is the figjam for a reason.

and i looked at 7 gal buckets too, and i am considering a larger one piece vessel.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by SeehoWeasy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:17 am

now that you mention it i hadn't actually considering pouring it in from the holes, lol.... smh

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