hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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naos
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hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by naos » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:18 pm

My girlfriend and I are embarking on our first burn this year (woohoo!) Since she's an engineer and I'm a big nerd, we're going all in: we're seriously digging the hexayurt and swamp cooler combo. I want to vent the hot air that will collect in the top of the yurt, and since the swamp cooler needs there to be vent(s) in the yurt, I'm wondering if we could attach passive roof vents near the top of the yurt. I'm thinking something like either of these:

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y46 ... 8304a3.jpg
or
http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y46 ... f5a61b.jpg

I'm wondering:
- Will this work? Will either style vent actually pull enough hot air out of the top of the yurt to make a difference in comfort?
- Is either of these enough to give the swamp cooler the inside-the-yurt venting that it needs?
- What should I do to make sure the vent doesn't tear a big hole in the hexayurt roof when the wind comes ripping through? A small piece of 1/4" plywood on either side of the hexayurt roof to reinforce it?

Have any of you tried anything like this?

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:28 am

To avoid the ripping off or tearing big hole in the hexayurt roof, remember you don't need to have the exhaust vent in the top of the shelter. You need to have the intake to the exhaust vent near the top of the shelter. :D
The vent itself can be down on the wall (part sticking outside isn't sticking up in the wind to get blown off). It should be protected from allowing hot dusty air from blowing in from a dust storm.

Why does this work? Because the vent doesn't pull the hot air out. The swamp-cooler pushes cooled moistened air into the shelter (positive envelope pressure), which forces any hot dusty air inside the shelter out through the vent. The vent should be able to exhaust the same airflow coming in from the swamp cooler.

see
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 65#p949444

The exhaust vents you link to will let dust in. Winds are regularly above 35mph, and can be above 75 mph. You do not want one of these on your roof during a big blow.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:49 am

p.s.
Adding ducting from the standard side-wall vent up to near the top of the shelter is just to ensure the hottest air is pushed out first.
But given the airflow from a properly built DIY swamp-cooler, most people find that isn't necessary. A simple 90-degree elbow through the wall and pointing down the wall a foot will minimize dust from all but the worst blows, and it ignores rain, and you can add a cover inside to completely block it while you're away from your shelter and the swamp-cooler is off. Use the same diameter as the swamp-cooler ducts into the shelter with.
Just stick to the tried & true swamp-cooler designs and materials, unless you're very confident of the consequences of your modifications. You want to be able to get quality comfortable rest on-playa so you can get out, explore and participate to your max.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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CornMan
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by CornMan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:36 am

I'd look into one of these. It's not likely to shear off in the wind due to the broad mounting surface - especially if you make a mounting plate to go on the interior side of the foam board, It can be adjusted to where your positive pressure from the swamp cooler keeps out dust and just ajar where it won't catch the wind, and can be closed altogether when needed. I bought one new once for about $17. I'd bring an extra foam triangle if possible just in case it does cause a problem.

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mr. fix-it
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by mr. fix-it » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:10 pm

i might seem dumb, but i dont know what a swamp cooler is. please explain. whats it made out of? im guessing its round and like a dome. need more info.

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FIGJAM
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:02 pm

These are what are being refered to at the moment. 8)

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... start=1950
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naos
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by naos » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:47 pm

Canoe: thanks so much for the info. I see your point about the design of these vents letting dust in. I'll aim for a simpler vent setup, blockable from the inside.

naos

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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by naos » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:19 pm

CornMan wrote:I'd look into one of these. It's not likely to shear off in the wind due to the broad mounting surface - especially if you make a mounting plate to go on the interior side of the foam board, It can be adjusted to where your positive pressure from the swamp cooler keeps out dust and just ajar where it won't catch the wind, and can be closed altogether when needed. I bought one new once for about $17. I'd bring an extra foam triangle if possible just in case it does cause a problem.

Image
Nice! I'll look around for one of these.

And that has me thinking: I wonder if I could just keep this simple: cut a 4" round hole a little ways down from the top of the yurt, keep the cutout to plug it up when needed. Then make a downward-facing lid/cover out of a rectangle and two triangles of some extra yurt material. Add a dust cover so dust doesn't blow in if I forget to plug it on the inside.

Something like this:
Image

Would that work?

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:11 pm

O.K.
Foil tape should mount those pieces together and to the roof - strong enough in a blow or will it get ripped off and the wind powers dust in while it gets a toe hold to try and rip the yurt apart?
Angle of roof vs. wind catching if it blows directly at that side?
Think 25 mph, then 45 mph, then 75 mph.
One of the great things about the hexayurts is the way a strong wind flows around and over them.

What material for dust screen?
It can get a direct blow: survive what winds?
What area does the filter have to be to still allow sufficient air flow once it's been filled with fine playa dust?
Particle size distribution of BRP soils
Percentage by Weight, Particle Size, Material
65.3% is < 3 um, Clay
21.2% is 3 to 15 um, Silt
10.4% is 15 to 62.5 um, Silt
3.1% is > 62.5 um, Sand
And you've still made a hole in your roof. If near the top of a triangle, that could be trouble. If there's a heavy blow, you don't want a snapped roof panel letting the wind get a toe hold and tear the yurt apart.


Most vents are down on the wall.

Keeping it simple:
A 90 degree elbow, going through the wall then turned down.
Extend it down a foot on the outside to prevent direct winds blowing in, and taped to the wall to secure it against a heavy blow.
Hole can be well away from edges.
Inside, unnecessary, but you can add a plastic dryer hose and run/tape it up to the peak of the roof. Done.
Add a metal shut-off section inside, or pop the hose off and cap it when you head out.

Or a dryer exhaust vent, with a gravity flap?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:06 pm

To give a sample of what you could face.
"captain mcguiver"
In 2006, I watched a ez-up-canopy tent fly 50 feet into the air and come crashing down into a girls chest. She got a free helicopter ride - to Reno ER. (~ed. update on med-evac – you will be billed)
http://blog.burningman.com/tag/hayseed/
xara-downSMs.jpg
Burningman Dusted.jpg
41-06duststorm1.jpg
Condition Alpha wind storm is worse.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

naos
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by naos » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:09 pm

Canoe wrote:O.K.
Foil tape should mount those pieces together and to the roof - strong enough in a blow or will it get ripped off and the wind powers dust in while it gets a toe hold to try and rip the yurt apart?
Angle of roof vs. wind catching if it blows directly at that side?
Think 25 mph, then 45 mph, then 75 mph.
One of the great things about the hexayurts is the way a strong wind flows around and over them.


And you've still made a hole in your roof. If near the top of a triangle, that could be trouble. If there's a heavy blow, you don't want a snapped roof panel letting the wind get a toe hold and tear the yurt apart.
Ah, thanks, excellent points about windflow around the yurt, I hadn't fully considered that. Yes, I can see that putting this kind of thing on the roof would give the wind gods a happy toehold to start tearing the roof up. I'll take your advice about the simpler vents lower down. Love the idea of the dryer vent!

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:23 am

naos wrote:...Love the idea of the dryer vent!
Me too, but people report mixed results. Don't know about the quality of the vents vs. results.
Flap(s) need to be light enough to open for swamp-cooler air flow, and doing so against outside winds. Yet when the swamp-cooler is not running, not get blown open by winds blowing around the vent; therefore, would strongly suggest still using a cap/block/shutoff on the inside for when you're not 'home' and the swamp-cooler is off.

With a down-facing elbow, you swamp-cooler air flow isn't fighting against wind blowing a flap closed.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

naos
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by naos » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:27 pm

Canoe wrote:
With a down-facing elbow, you swamp-cooler air flow isn't fighting against wind blowing a flap closed.
Yeah, I'm liking that idea more and more too, now that you've got it in my head. :) I

deal
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by deal » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:05 am

Thanks for the pratcial advice re venting the cooled air. Ive now revised my own venting ideas inline with your simple elbow approach. Im flying in from Australia and intend to prefabricate our hexiyurt before reaching the playa. Thing is ive looked online at home depot and cant find the foil lined insulboard sheet. I see some pink colored stuff. Anyone here can tell me or give more info as to best and cheapest place to buy it over the counter? Also the 6inch tape? Cheers.

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:39 am

deal wrote:...flying in from Australia and intend to prefabricate our hexiyurt before reaching the playa. ...
Which town do you intend to build in, so someone local can advise where to go.

Tape
The golden choice for the six inch wide Bi-Filament tape (220 lbs | 91 oz.).
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 76#p955761
Never heard of it available over the counter.
Google for "Bi-Filament Tape-Reinforced - 6 IN x 60 YD 220"
or try here http://www.goodbuyguys.com/catalog/bifi ... p-742.html

Check the hexayurt instructions on how much of what size tape for your hexayurt size.
Order it online and have it delivered to a UPS store.
Canoe wrote:... on North McCarran Blvd there's a Walmart between West Seventh & Mae Anne. ... Across the street is a Save Mart, Dollar Tree, someone had a wireless access point, and most importantly - a UPS store, which you can ship items to, picking up for a $5 fee (make sure you check their hours - if you're in late Sunday, you may not be happy waiting til Monday morning to pickup your packages). (do not ship to the UPS store at Firestone)
Just Ship-To "Your Name" with the UPS store address including the zip code (check the UPS Store web site). Do not confuse them by including "UPS Store".

Order soon. The 6" tape has been known to sell out.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by Canoe » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:57 am

Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

MrChipster
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Re: hexayurt & swamp cooler: passive roof vent?

Post by MrChipster » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:08 pm


Most vents are down on the wall.

Keeping it simple:
A 90 degree elbow, going through the wall then turned down.
Extend it down a foot on the outside to prevent direct winds blowing in, and taped to the wall to secure it against a heavy blow.
I know this is an older post, and I like the idea of a turned down elbow with an extension. I believe packing the down-tube with Filter media (think furnace filter material) would minimize back flow of Playa dust and also allow the clean inside the yurt air to flow out easily. I am not thinking the expensive pleated style filters but the cheap fiberglass style just remove the cardboard frame and roll the fiber media into a spiral and stuff into the down-tube.

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