Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

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incandenza
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Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Tue May 26, 2015 10:43 pm

I apologize if this has been addressed before. I've done a lot of searching on ePlaya and the web and can't find a good answer.

Question: How strong a fan do I need to use with a FIGJAM swamp cooler to effectively cool an H12 hexayurt?

Rule of thumb I've seen is to replace the air in your space every 3-5 minutes. Or, multiply the square footage (~166) by the average height (~6) and divide by two to find your ideal CFM flow (~500).

I'm hoping to use reasonably-priced (less than $30) computer fans, but I'm not sure that will be a possibility since ~200cfm is the strongest I've been able to find. So, from those with a little experience using this kind of setup on Playa: will a 200cfm fan on the FIGJAM cooler work (in conjunction with an active outflow vent) or will it just turn my yurt into a hot swampy cave?

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FIGJAM
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Tue May 26, 2015 11:36 pm

The bucket cooler is too small for that space.

There 240cfm computer fans, but they use like 3 amps per hour.

The unicooler is what you need.

It's fan (endless breeze) will put out 250cfm on low speed using 1.16 amps.

Or up to 900CFM on high for 2.54 amps.

Medium is 500cfm for 1.64 amps.
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby lucky420 » Wed May 27, 2015 6:07 am

Bump because I thought a figjam cooler would cool an H12 yurt. Now I'm reallllly confused
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Wed May 27, 2015 7:13 am

Lucky, the math was right until the divide by 2 part.

The bucket is good up to 600 cubic feet of space, and the H12 seems to be closer to 1000cu.ft.
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incandenza
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Wed May 27, 2015 7:40 am

Lucky, the H12 is ~850 cubic feet. I was using the average height multiplied by the floor square footage over 2 (a rule of thumb I had found doing some HVAC research) for ideal airflow.

FIGJAM, what would you recommend for outflow if I use the Endless Breeze fan and a unicooler? Another EB fan?

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby asr9754 » Wed May 27, 2015 8:24 am

Not to step on toes, but you don't need an active fan for outflow. As long as you have a window or vent in your yurt, it will vent itself. Ideally the vent is on the opposite side of the structure as the swamp cooler and relatively high in the structure. There was a thread somewhere about venting a yurt thru a long duct from the peak in the cieling down to the top of the wall, I don't remember the details. But long story short, the exhaust vent doesn't need a fan, a passive opening is fine. Something you can shut at night or when it's windy.

Side note, I have used the bucket cooler in a 18' trailer that is far too large for it's recommended capacity, we made it work by hanging a bed sheet as a curtain around the bed area--the bed chamber stays nice and cool (<70F), the rest of the trailer is not cool but is relatively bearable (~80-85d) when the cooler is running.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby lucky420 » Wed May 27, 2015 8:46 am

Thanks everyone.

So I think I'll be okay with the figjam cooler in my yurt. dont plan to run it much and not expecting to cool down the whole yurt anyway.
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Wed May 27, 2015 10:36 am

Ah, that's good to hear. asr9754, did you use an Endless Breeze fan with your bucket or some other kind?

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Wed May 27, 2015 10:42 am

The EB isn't for the bucket cooler.

Scroll down this page.....

https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?f=280&t=33842&start=2670

for instructions on the coolers large enough to cool the whole yurt!!! 8)
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby asr9754 » Wed May 27, 2015 10:57 am

Correct, the endless breeze is not for the bucket cooler. I used the exact CPU fan as specified in the thread and followed the instructions to the T. My swampie is much better than some of my campmates that used substitute fans or pumps or made other changes to the design. I would have loved a full Unicooler w/ the endless breeze, but time/money/space don't allow it, so I make do with the bucket cooler in a space that is too big for it. It lets me sleep in or nap during the day and that's all I need. I don't spend much time in the trailer by day.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Wed May 27, 2015 10:54 pm

Thanks for the info everyone. EB fan on-order. Figured the comfort was worth a few extra bucks.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Thu May 28, 2015 10:04 pm

One more question about pumps for the unicooler. I looked around in the thread FIGJAM linked describing the unicooler, but the weblink to the pump he recommends is leading me somewhere without any pumps.

What kind of water flow are we looking for for the unicooler? Static head height? I gather that pumps (unlike fans) have a linear additive effect, so I'm thinking about buying two of a pump that does 63GPH and has a static head of 10ft.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Thu May 28, 2015 10:11 pm

These are proving to be very good pumps.

They're cheap, so buy 2.

Order now as it takes awhile for them to get here. 8)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Quiet-Mini-DC-12V-3M-240L-H-Brushless-Motor-Submersible-Water-Pump-Hot-/261351083541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd9bd0e15
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby ygmir » Fri May 29, 2015 5:35 am

on a different project, I've been trying to find an 8 gph oil suitable pump........

that is a good pump, FJ, and very reasonable priced. thanks.
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby rideincircles » Fri May 29, 2015 8:02 am

Could a 15 gallon bucket work in place of the unicooler for a hexayurt? I was originally planning on the 5-gallon swamp cooler, but it seems easier to increase size that way and I have one sitting around. I am not sure if I would use the endless breeze or a computer fan for airflow yet.

Any word on the harbor freight solar pump if it works well? It looks like they changed out the model they have I think. It does look like there is a similar model elsewhere for cheaper elsewhere. I was just hoping to avoid having to use up my battery power early. My boats optima I had has crapped out, and I need to see if my other one still works. I assume I will need to buy a new deep cycle somewhere.

If not I will just order the one mentioned above if it works for all sizes of swamp coolers.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby incandenza » Fri May 29, 2015 6:57 pm

If you're using a 15gal bucket you'll definitely want to use something on the order of the EB fan - not comp fans.

Apparently fans do not necessarily have an additive effect. If you attach 3 200cfm fans to the top of your bucket it's unlikely you'll get 600cfm of airflow. Plus the high-power cpu fans i've seen use much much more power than the EB does.

I've read some not-so-great things about the HF solar pump during my research. They may have changed the model as you say though, so, YMMV.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Fri May 29, 2015 8:42 pm

You could put an EB fan on top of your 15gal., but then you have to figure out how to duct the air into the space being cooled.
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby maladroit » Fri May 29, 2015 8:49 pm

At this level, you're getting into the off the shelf portable evaporative cooler territory. The beauty of the Figbucket is that you can make it in less than an hour with $25 in parts. Once you start looking at higher end fans, more complicated fabrication methods, hours of work...the prebuilt stuff designed to cool an average bedroom is available.

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby FIGJAM » Fri May 29, 2015 10:41 pm

I don't know about that.

These are the cheapest I've seen in a 12 volt and they start at $300!!! :shock:

http://www.swampy.net/hprices.html
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby lucky420 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:40 pm

Bump
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Canoe
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:36 pm

asr9754 wrote:Not to step on toes, but you don't need an active fan for outflow. As long as you have a window or vent in your yurt, it will vent itself. Ideally the vent is on the opposite side of the structure as the swamp cooler and relatively high in the structure. There was a thread somewhere about venting a yurt thru a long duct from the peak in the cieling down to the top of the wall, I don't remember the details. But long story short, the exhaust vent doesn't need a fan, a passive opening is fine. Something you can shut at night or when it's windy.

(I missed this when first posted)
You've got some important points.
  • Active fan for exhaust bad (risk of negative pressures, consumes power, more noise).
  • Passive exhaust good (simple, positive pressure, to reduce causal dust blowing in)
  • Higher the exhaust, with hot air rising, the hottest air is exhausted first.
  • Duct from the peak down to the wall for exhausting the hottest through the wall (no holes in the roof), gets the most of the hot air exhausted outside
  • Exhaust vent that can be shut, for reasons stated.
https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 60#p965260

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby kheldar » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:32 am

Hey guys!

BM virgin here going this year, and was planning on doing the H12 and a swamp cooler. After purchasing some of the bucket cooler materials, I saw this thread yesterday and realized it might not be a good solution given the larger nature of the yurt.

Has anybody tried the combo (I'm following FIGJAM--and thank you so much by the way for the instructions--work to a T for the bucket) and have anecdotal thoughts? Successful? Still too hot to sleep mid-day? If need be, I'll move to do the unicooler, but I'm pretty new to this stuff, and don't totally trust myself.

Thanks so much for all the help!!

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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby Ratty » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:15 am

I've seen it posted that you can use the bucket to cool a large area. Hang a partition, such as a sheet or tarp to make it a small bedroom.
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Canoe
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby Canoe » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:09 pm

kheldar wrote:... planning on doing the H12 and a swamp cooler. bucket cooler materials, ... realized it might not be a good solution given the larger nature of the yurt.... If need be, I'll move to do the unicooler, ...

Figjam is pretty clear that a Bucket-cooler is good for up to 600 cu.ft., and only if it's built to spec. Compromise on design or components, and that can drop off radically.

You're free to play/experiment, but if you need cool for medical reasons, or to ensure adequate comfortable sleep so you can enjoy your Burn instead of merely surviving your Burn (we don't know if 2015 will be a hard year or a walk-in-the-park year...), then for reliable on-playa success you should stick to one of his proven designs. With dozens upon dozens made and used on-playa, it's those who deviated - or used one undersized for their space - who complained it didn't work as expected.

For sizing a shelter to a bucket-cooler, uni-cooler or box-cooler, look at his post and a few below it.
https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 0#p1077268
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Re: Swamp Cooler Airflow through a Hexayurt

Postby tatonka » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:13 pm

it was 97 yesterday and same today , I put my cooler in my bedroom window , ahhhhh its working great.
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