School Bus 101, long technical post

[Captain Goddammit]

It's a long thread but if you go back to the start I think the main info you need comes up pretty quickly, with plenty right in Elliot's first post.
Those five spoked wheels with the widely spaced lug nuts are deal breakers, don't buy a bus with them. It's gotta have the dished steel wheels with ten lug nuts.
Never buy a bus with a 3208 Caterpillar.
Avoid private party sellers for the reasons Elliot listed.
Those three things are the most basic bits of info you need but this thread is full of good reading.

[GreyCoyote]

You might hit-up the Schoolie board (google it for the URL). There is a nice thread there that addresses all of this "what bus options do I want" in detail.

While there, you might also see the "evolution thread" for Millicent. Elliot did a heck of a job documenting his mischief building her and it's a very informative read if you're thinking of doing a bus.

[Elliot]

.
Link to skoolie.net and all the rest is in the original post, folks.

[Martiansky]

Although Id like to have a bus to take to BM, it doesn't seem feasable to drive it there from here in MN.
Having it parked somewhere closer to the playa would work but then it sits the rest of the year or years for that matter and you wouldn't know if it was playa worthy when you go to drive it again unless you took a few trips(by plane from here) to check on it.

I was just more curious about the prices for used buses in different areas of the U.S.

Elliot, you have some very good purchasing points in your last posts here, thanks!
I think if I were to buy a bus I'd go up to the bus company I used to work at and get one from the fleet that no longer can use(out of date for school service).

[Elliot]

...
I think if I were to buy a bus I'd go up to the bus company I used to work at and get one from the fleet that no longer can use(out of date for school service).

That's the exact best way to buy a school bus. And anybody can do that -- not just former emloyees. I've dealt with four different bus barns, and every last soul was friendly, helpful, and some even downright enthusiastic.
One tip: Make sure you present yourself as a civilized citizen with a brain and a bank account -- not as a clueless unwashed hippie.

[Captain Goddammit]

It's about 1700 miles from MN to BRC. It can be done!

[Elliot]

.
Let's see.... I bought Millicent in November 2006. In those 8 years she has gone 42,014 miles. That's roughly $16,000 in fuel.

Luckily, the house rule is that passengers buy fuel!

[Sham]

.
Let's see.... I bought Millicent in November 2006. In those 8 years she has gone 42,014 miles. That's roughly $16,000 in fuel.

Luckily, the house rule is that passengers buy fuel!

If you could harness methane, I could get you around the world!

[Captain Goddammit]

I think you just got yourself relegated to the back of the bus, if not banned!

[Elliot]

On that note, I can mention that we have a minor problem with exhaust fumes inside Millicent. Due to the basic aerodynamics of a giant brick moving thru air, there are low-pressure areas at the front-sides -- that is, at the door and at the driver's side-window (and tapering rearward). Nothing is completely air tight, and specially not Millicent's door, so inside air is drawn out and air from the rear comes forward. And at the rear there is major turbulence, which keeps some of the exhaust fumes close to the tailgate, which is also a sieve.

I don't notice any stench, but one of our regular participants is very sensitive to it.

So, it is worth keeping in mind to seal all holes and gaps in the bus. I made a new vent intake in the front, where outside air rams straight in, and that helped, but it wasn't quite enough.

So if Sham wants to travel, he'll have to stand in the stairwell, right by that leaky door.

[Charlie Parker]

Tried to register for skoolie.net. It won't allow my email address (a gmail account) and there isn't any contact info available for admins, at least not for people lacking an account. booooo

[Elliot]

Tried to register for skoolie.net. It won't allow my email address (a gmail account) and there isn't any contact info available for admins, at least not for people lacking an account. booooo

This has been asked on the Skoolie site, and here is Steve, the Administrator, to explain it. Looks like you would need to register with a non-gmail account, and then he can happily change it to gmail for you.

So my questions are thus:
1) Is there some reason that Skoolie.net won't accept google email addresses?
2) Another user here suggested changing addresses after successful registration was accomplished. But if gmail addresses aren't allowed (for whatever reason).... then wouldn't a change to a gmail address (after the fact) be a somewhat subversive act?

1) Google is a bunch of jerks, they let anybody register a gmail email address without qualifying that the person is a real person. Therefor 80% of the spam comes from gmail addresses and on a board the size of this one that could mean 200 spams to the board (which have to be cleared manually by humans) per day.

2) No you cannot change to a gmail address yourself, this requires an administrator (aka me) to manually put in your email via the SQL database for your account. A spammer cannot get this accomplished without first spending time pretending to be a skoolie. If you would like to use your gmail address, send me a PM letting me know what email you want to use and I will change it.

[Charlie Parker]

i kind of figured that was the problem. I found his email on whois.net. I'll start looking into other email hosts.

[chuckularone]

OK, this thread, in and of itself has gotten me to want to buy a school bus. I just want one to build a camper. I may never drive it out to BM, but it would be awesome. Thanks to all for the hints on finding a bus for around $2000. I can do that. Another $3,000 to $5000 for modifications and I'll have me an RV.

[Elliot]

.
Uh-ohhh....

[chuckularone]

Yes, you've converted another "lost" soul!

[Charlie Parker]

Found an email solution.

[Tuullii]

Awesome post! We are looking to buy a school bus to convert (I've also been talking to Greg - seems like a nice guy, buys a lot of buses from Ohio), and was thinking about taking it out to BRC this year. Thanks for all time you've taken to really but a lot of information out there. Most of it doesn't make any sense to me yet (I'm learning, I promise!) but maybe I'll see you out on the playa!

[Elliot]

Thanks, Tuullii, and welcome to ePlaya! I would be concerned about buses from "the rust belt", but otherwise the dealer you mention seems to have a good reputation, judging by posts on skoolie.net. (No connection, etc, etc.) We are fortunate here on the west coast where few areas have rust to speak of, so you might also consider hunting out here.

[Tuullii]

I'm checking out all over the place - Oregon and CA are definitely possibilities. I guess the big difference in opinion between you and what Greg has told me is that Greg says that Diesels require a butt-ton of maintenance, and are really expensive to work on. He was saying that Gas buses are easier to work on, easier to gets parts for, etc. Somewhere else, though, I read that as long as you treat a diesel right, it costs very little to operate. What is your experience?

We are looking at a very simple bus conversion - no interior walls, using heavy curtain dividers and open/multipurpose space - hopefully we can cart some MN burners out with us. But that means that the majority of our budget will be for the actual bus.

[Elliot]

Diesels don't require a great deal more maintenance, but what needs doing is more expensive. A diesel holds more oil, so more to change. There are two fuel filters that you should change from time to time, since cleanliness of fuel is very important. If either the fuel injection pump or the turbocharger needs work, that's big bucks -- very specialized work. Work on the engine itself is also more specialized.

But you get double the fuel mileage compared to the old gasoline engines, and durability is excellent.

My experience.... In 42,000 miles over seven seasons, Millicent has needed one starter, one alternator, three feet of fuel hose, and two "heim" joints in the throttle linkage. In other words, the diesel engine itself has needed nothing. (Besides routine oil and filter changes.)

Granted, the starter cost $450. We are dealing with commercial grade parts.

Millicent can get better than 10 MPG when driven 55 without trailer. With trailer and closer to 60 she gets more like 9.5 MPG.
Her predecessor, a 1983 gasoline engine, got around 4 MPG.
I recently calculated we have spent $16,000 on fuel in seven years. So by purchasing and maintaining a diesel, I have saved around $16,000 additional that I would have blown on the extra gasoline.

And the $450 starter suddenly seems cheap.

[ygmir]

a big deal for California trucks are diesels are mostly exempt from smog certification..........

[Elliot]

a big deal for California trucks are diesels are mostly exempt from smog certification..........

1997 and older, last I read.
Yet, there is something about some old buses not being allowed to be sold within the state, and I don't know what that's about.
My thought at this point is to buy 1997 and slightly older, in California.

[Tiahaar]

I was just telling Elliot about the wiring mess in my busII dash and promised a picture...isn't it beautiful (ly terrifying...)


That was this morning, now everything but the air lines and steering column are out, including all the wood framework. Starting over from scratch. That dash was a grafted-in abomination to start with.

This rig may or may not be the playa hauler this year, will see how progress goes.

[Elliot]

No wonder they sold you that bus cheap!

[FIGJAM]

I think you bought a space shuttle instead of a bus!

[BAS]

Well, since, after 8 years my finances still are in bad shape (and I am currently unemployed), I'm trying out crowd-sourcing. I think the fact my friends don't have any money, either, might be a problem.

I've been away from eplaya too long, and now have a lot of catching up to do in this thread.

[Tiahaar]

I think you bought a space shuttle instead of a bus!

Ha! like the messed up one the evil doers built in 'Buckaroo Bonzai....' heheheh

Current progress pic to amuse the bus nuts out there. Most of the front end wood had dry rot so out it came, down to solid frame now and building back with aluminum. This is a really good example of not buying a fleet maintained bus

[Elliot]

Your most important tool is easy to spot: The one with blue tape around the handle.

In other news.... A friend of a friend just bought a 1998 bus that runs on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG). CNG can be bought only in scattered locations, and it cannot be carried in a jug or otherwise be refueled in the field (such as propane can be, in a bind). So.... First thing he did was run it out of fuel.
It's human nature to be optimistic! Beware of human nature.

[chuckularone]

I looked at a couple of buses out here (in Delaware) in the last few weeks. I have to say, oh hell no! With the amount of rust I found even on the "newer" models, I didn't have to look any farther. I will have to wait until I can find one out west and drive it home. The labor time and materials to patch the rust up would cost more than the fuel to drive one east from Hawaii!

Oh well....