Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

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jasonk
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Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by jasonk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:53 am

I've been thinking what to do to minimize bike rusting, besides just dry-wiping. Maybe dry-wipe, then mist with pure vinegar, followed by more wiping.

What do you think? Got better ideas?

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Token
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:15 am

Yeah, more ... lots more ...

I don’t understand the fascination with vinegar... but if it makes you feel better ... sure ... as long as you fully rinse it off with water afterwards...

Power wash the whole bike

Swap out the chain

Disassemble and rebuild/repack all bearings as needed. Especially the crank bearings. Grease them good.

Lubricate everything that moves really well after washing.

Take tires off, clean out all the Playa rusting out your rims.

Mount cleaned and washed tires, tighten up the spokes.

Flush and lube all cables.

Then go a final line on your new chain.

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Skuzzy61 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:25 am

Pretty much described what I have done to our bikes to prep for the Playa. When reassembling, be sure to include some play in the bearings so the dust has a place to go.

I used a moly grease and will see how well it does out there. Standard wheel bearing grease seems to dry out faster in the dust. I have been told white lithium grease is good too.

Vinegar? Nah. Power wash is the way to go.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Ratty » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:45 am

OR...You can start with a relatively good used bike. Get a cruiser with no gears and no hand brakes. Hose it off when you get home and spray some lube on the chain. Cover it with a tarp and cross your fingers. Worked for me several years in a row. This year I rebuilt the bottom bracket and rear hub, (brakes). I could use some new stickers.
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jasonk
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by jasonk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:49 am

Token wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:15 am
I don’t understand the fascination with vinegar...
To counteract the alkali salt dust? Salt + water = rust?

I have no power washer :( I guess a powerful hose spray instead?

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:24 pm

jasonk wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:49 am
Token wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:15 am
I don’t understand the fascination with vinegar...
To counteract the alkali salt dust? Salt + water = rust?
That there is a pseudoscience myth. It’s all salts, so adding an organic acid does absolutely nothing other than a funny smell.

Soap is a salt, it too is alkaline when in solution, we don’t add vinegar to wash that off ... ;)
I have no power washer :( I guess a powerful hose spray instead?
Yep. A garden hose with a quality nozzle that can produce a decent jet of water is fine.

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Popeye » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:40 pm

Token is right and acid plus a base equals a salt plus water. If the acids and base do not balance out then you are left with a salt and either an acid or a base. Salts absorb water and the combination corrodes metals.

You say "pure" vinegar. No such animal. Vinegar is acetic acid diluted with water. You can buy cleaning vinegar which is much stronger than the stuff you normally think of as vinegar. The stuff you think of as vinegar is not labeled with a ph, doubt if it standarized.
Those vinegar washes you see advertised on the way home from the Burn are a joke. But they do get money into the community, or at least out of your pocket.

It's amazing how dependent we are on technology yet so few understand it.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:25 pm

The funny thing with the vinegar myth is that regular store bought white vinegar is only 5% and has a PH of ~ 5.

Playa mixed in with water, say 10g in 100ml, will have a PH of ~ 9.

You would need to dump about 100ml of undiluted vinegar in to get to neutral PH of 7. (I simplified here since molar weight should be used but that’s too geeky, the point still holds)

So all those vinegar sprays, baths, wipes ... where folks dilute the vinegar an order of magnitude are just feel-good motions and really do nothing beyond what regular water would.

Probably irritating the skin more with the vinegar than the alkalinity of the Playa.

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by jasonk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:13 am

Token wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:25 pm
So all those vinegar sprays, baths, wipes ... where folks dilute the vinegar an order of magnitude are just feel-good motions
So all us non-chemists are wasting our time using any strength of vinegar on our hands or feet while at Burning Man? And in our laundry once home?

Is there anything that would be good to use on hands/feet/laundry?

I definitely notice the dust is very drying, and the dust combined with a little water or humidity or skin moisture, causes an unpleasant mild tingle (which I always assumed was the alkalinity).
Popeye wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:40 pm
Vinegar is acetic acid diluted with water.
Well yes, I knew that much.

>It's amazing how dependent we are on technology yet so few understand it.

I'm great with software ;)

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Token » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:34 pm

The key is buffering.

Your hands and feet will have mg level quantity of Playa dust on them. Washing with soap and water is all it takes. A pint will do. Rinse, dry, moisturize.

For laundry, shake out as much dust then just normal wash.

The amount of water used will make the Playa dust inconsequential.

Use a good moisturizer on hands and feet. There is not a “best”, or magical product. Use what you like.

I prefer “Man and Beast” - it is derived from Ponderosa Pine tree sap known as turpentine, which with its other ingredients moisturizes, then locks in the moisture with the tree sap. Also an antiseptic good for minor scrapes and whatnot.

Amazon has it.

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Popeye » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:24 pm

Per Rhino from several years ago and me trying it over several Burns, use CAlgon, or White Rain (cheaper). Makes water wetter.

I think Rhino said it is an ionic surfecant.

And no, I'm not a chemist. Just listen to what people who know say and ask questions.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by jasonk » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:33 am

Popeye wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:24 pm
Per Rhino from several years ago and me trying it over several Burns, use CAlgon, or White Rain (cheaper). Makes water wetter. I think Rhino said it is an ionic surfecant. And no, I'm not a chemist. Just listen to what people who know say and ask questions.
Calgon the water softener? And White Rain is soap/shampoo/etc? So you use...White Rain soap? In BRC?

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Popeye » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:28 pm

jasonk wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:33 am
Popeye wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:24 pm
Per Rhino from several years ago and me trying it over several Burns, use CAlgon, or White Rain (cheaper). Makes water wetter. I think Rhino said it is an ionic surfecant. And no, I'm not a chemist. Just listen to what people who know say and ask questions.
Calgon the water softener? And White Rain is soap/shampoo/etc? So you use...White Rain soap? In BRC?
Different brands of water softener. And not at BRC, when I get home I throw tent, sleeping bag etc in the bathtub with White Rain and water. Let soak and swish around. Tub bottom is full of playa. Rinse and repeat until no more playa. Clothes go into washing machine with white rain, two washes and they are fine, except for normal playa destruction.
Last year was my first year to drive a rental. Took a leaf blower to the inside and wiped everything down with white rain and water. Washes the outside twice with white rain and soap- might have been dish soap. Turned the vehicle in with no problems.
Thank you Rhino.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Token » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:49 am

^^^ This! So much ^^^ This!

Real science!

Buffering, wetting the clay micron-size particles, rinse, rinse, rinse.

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Skuzzy61 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:30 am

For the RV, I put a polymer sealer on the outside before we left. Dust just floated right off with a mild rinse. Like Popeye, used a leaf blower to blow out the interior, then took some wax cloth I use for particle removal before painting a car and wiped everything down.

The comment we got when we returned it was, "The thing is better shape than when you picked it up!" Heck, they asked me what I would charge to do that to all their RV's. :)
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by bigbluedoggy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:23 am

There is a cheap spray cleaner called Totally Awesome that is really good at getting the layer of playa dust off things. Not the mechanical parts... all of that advice here is very sound. But TA works on all kinds of stuff. It's yellow.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Skuzzy61 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:22 pm

After the burn, I'll power wash the bikes, then strip them down, clean the grease out, make sure cups and bearing are still in good shape, put in fresh grease, check coaster brake for wear and replace what is needed there, and re-assemble. We ride them year round.
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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by jasonk » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:06 pm

Popeye wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:24 pm
Per Rhino from several years ago and me trying it over several Burns, use CAlgon, or White Rain (cheaper). Makes water wetter. I think Rhino said it is an ionic surfecant.
I can't find either of these laundry water additives in my area so far. Is there something special about them/in them, or would any fabric softener work?

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Re: Afterburn bike care: Wiping + vinegar mist?

Post by Popeye » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:44 am




Rain Drops, not White Rain, my mistake sorry.

I don't know about other products, you will have to do your own research there.
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