Bike Security

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:48 pm

gyre wrote:Attack cat in a spring loaded basket.

That would be called a Cat-A-What?

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:36 pm

Drill and thread a hole in the downtube under the seat to recieve a percussion cap nipple, rig a trigger under the seat to release a hammer to hit the cap igniting a blackpowder charge in the tube. You could plug the down tube below the nipple hole and vent the tube under the seat.

When he sits down the hammer is released, and you blow smoke through his ass.

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:50 pm

Oldguy wrote:Drill and thread a hole in the downtube under the seat to recieve a percussion cap nipple, rig a trigger under the seat to release a hammer to hit the cap igniting a blackpowder charge in the tube. You could plug the down tube below the nipple hole and vent the tube under the seat.

When he sits down the hammer is released, and you blow smoke through his ass.

The main problem remaining will be cleaning the seat after the perp shits himself.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:59 pm

Anybody here have any talent at drawing illustrations? We need illustrations. (I can post them if you can get them to me somehow.)

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:15 pm

I keep thinking empty rimfire shells. Will it go off if the rim is simply deformed, or does it have to be with a wallopp? I'm trying to keep the spring, sear and hammer out of the design. In other words, can a .22 primer be set off by just squeezing it with a pair of pliers? If so, then the necessary fabrication can be minimal.

PS: For heavens sake, don't any of you try this with a live shell!

More thinking... Might be safer to start with spent center fire casings, and just have a reloader put new primers in them. A .38 primer shoots about a two inch flame for a tiny fraction of a second.

Or is it possible to buy new empty rimfire casings -- that is, with primer only?

Time for some shuteye. More fun brainstorms tomorrow. But I want drawings!

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:28 am

Ever heard of railroad torpedoes? heheheeeee.....

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:56 am

? or loud audio. I have some smoke alarm parts, just the sound producers that are loud and annoying as hell, just 9 volt dc.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:43 am

In the days before decent communications, the crews working on the rails would clip little packets of explosives to the rails at five, three and one mile away. If a train came down the line the crew heard the explosions and got out of the way. These bundles of joy are still sitting around if you know where to look. You can set one off with a sledgehammer ....

"What was that?!" ..... "Should we go see if he's okay?" "Yeah.. oh wait, there he is ... hey, shrapnel marks!" "Can you hear me? hello?"

I supposed they'd not work with a bike.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:07 am

Elliot wrote:
I keep thinking empty rimfire shells. Will it go off if the rim is simply deformed, or does it have to be with a wallopp? I'm trying to keep the spring, sear and hammer out of the design. In other words, can a .22 primer be set off by just squeezing it with a pair of pliers? If so, then the necessary fabrication can be minimal.

PS: For heavens sake, don't any of you try this with a live shell!

More thinking... Might be safer to start with spent center fire casings, and just have a reloader put new primers in them. A .38 primer shoots about a two inch flame for a tiny fraction of a second.

Or is it possible to buy new empty rimfire casings -- that is, with primer only?

Time for some shuteye. More fun brainstorms tomorrow. But I want drawings!

well, not really......primers, rimfire or centerfire, are made to detonate on impact.....I suppose, a random rimfire could go off by deforming, but, not likely.
Yes, you can buy primed brass, that is empty. Or, have a reloader (grin) make some for you.

There are some cute little spring loaded "booby (haha, I got to say booby) trap" devices that will set off a primer, or, can be made with a simple tube, pin, spring, and locking pin with pull ring.......you could put a little black powder in the casing, seal it with wax.....it'll make a small (depending on charge) fireball and be smelly and smokey......

*these are things I've read,..... no.... really....., I've not done any of it*

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:55 am

My my my, aren't you all a bunch of deviant little mischievous makers

I love it, keep it up!!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:07 am

we could make it a "black powder bidet".......

has a ring to it. No?

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:13 pm

Firecracker ignition solved, and I have had it in my tool box since 1975: A spring-loaded ("automatic") center punch. Put a .38 primer under it, and it will not matter how gently or quickly the thief settles his weight on the bike saddle. Once the weight on the saddle reaches the spring setting on the punch, the firecrackers go off.

Might also use toy cap-gun caps or some such, to keep "real gun stuff" out of it -- for political correctness. But the basic swift-and-centralized-impact-from-a-bicycle-saddle question has been solved!

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:14 pm

Ahh, another use for a spring-loaded centerpunch.

Survivalist caps manufacturers use aluminum cans and kid caps on paper roll. Open can with tinsnips ,use large leather punch to punch out rounds to make cups to hold paper caps. Put aluminum round on a piece of towel, use nailhead and hammer to strike down to make cup to hold cap. Put paper cap(s), (or nitro throw bangs) in cup, cup on nipple. Old mousetrap makes a fine percussion hammer for booby traps. I could go on about making electrical switches using clothspins but I'll let it rest. I'll leave homemade C4 and focused rounds for another day also.

Firemen have long used them to break auto windows, use at bottom of passenger door window and glass falls inside door. Quick extrication.

60 second car thiefs use them to break a window to defeat pressure release alarm systems and defeat some ignition lockouts.( Hint- Remember to rollup windows before setting alarms.)

Burglers- House window plate glass shatters, so pin up cloth over window before centerpunching. Double pane means double punch. Use gloves to pull out triangle from top of window first, then work down. Leave frame in place to defeat switches.

Homeowners- put mercury tilt or motion alarm switches on center of windows. Buy a big, mean dog. Cameras. Bars and locks. Lights. IR trip alarms. On-star, Lo-jak, kill-switches, battery knife switches. Let your mother-in-law live with you...etc...Ask neighbors to let you put up cameras on their houses pointed to yours (all four sides), and don't forget the street and nanny cams...

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:43 pm

Yesterday, I asked my brother, a long time target shooter, about igniting a fuse with a gun primer, and he said "just look at some anarchist web sites and you'll find all you need."!

Silly me, we could just ask Ted The Unabomber!

But my brother felt that the center punch on a .38 primer would get the job done, and I feel I can fit those parts into a seat post.

This bike is now scheduled for a test ride on New Years Eve.
Firecrackers -- New Years Eve.... Nobody will even notice!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:54 pm

Elliot wrote:
Yesterday, I asked my brother, a long time target shooter, about igniting a fuse with a gun primer, and he said "just look at some anarchist web sites and you'll find all you need."!

Silly me, we could just ask Ted The Unabomber!

But my brother felt that the center punch on a .38 primer would get the job done, and I feel I can fit those parts into a seat post.

This bike is now scheduled for a test ride on New Years Eve.
Firecrackers -- New Years Eve.... Nobody will even notice!

i still like the flash powder idea

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:56 pm

I think the technical term is fuse igniters.
You can search 'fuse igniters' or 'military fuse igniter'.
There are electric as well as mechanical, and chemical fuses too.

A primer will work, but there are issues to address.
You are seeking ignition only and the propellant effect can damage the fuse, blow it away and fail to ignite it, or worst of all, affect the timing of the fuse.
Loosening the primer material so it can disperse without the explosive effect is one approach.
It is good to fasten the fuse against the ignition material.

O rings and wax can be used to good effect.
Waterproofing is possible.

But, I'm just guessing.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:10 pm

How about caps for muzzle loaders.
There are shooter clubs for old guns. There must be suppliers..

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:23 pm

I would think those would work.

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Min ... TRAPS.html
http://www.janes.com/articles/jmmc/back ... _trap.html

prophetkaur · Post by **prophetkaur** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:04 pm

I was wondering (i am newbie) what you are locking your bike to? I noticed alot of you opt for wire or u-locks, but are there bike racks or secure poles to attach a bike to or are you just making them immobile?

Post by **Sham** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:48 pm

Bikes usually just have some sort of chain or cable though the wheel and are secured that way. The problem is not someone wanting take your bike to steal it, but more of that person not wanting to walk 5 miles back to their camp.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:41 pm

prophetkaur wrote:...making them immobile?

I tell folks the trick is to make your bike look less appealing to a bike thief than some other poor sucker's bike. Simple immobilization usually works (the belief is that unless you have a $2000 bike, most thefts are "heat of the moment", where someone without a bike - possibly under some influence or another - is sick of walking and sees an unsecured bike, only to snatch it, ride some distance, then abandon it). On-the-other-hand, organized bike thieves probably do exist on some scale (with knowledge of value and a means of transporting the stuff off-playa). Given time and opportunity, those bikes are probably never safe (even if you are on them - aka "the psycho-clown" incident of a few years back).

prophetkaur · Post by **prophetkaur** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:30 pm

Thanks for the info

The "psycho-clown" incident? Do tell...I can only imagine what that was about.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:43 pm

"clown" + "bike" on Eplaya search engine

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... clown+bike

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:44 pm

Word is that "professional" bike thieves have been known to operate in BRC. They arrive with a motorhome or other large vehicle and spend the week stealing the most valuable bikes they can get -- then presumably sell their loot at flee markets or such.

"That guy" is our primary target with the Bait Bikes.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Elliot, if you have a bike thread appropriate for this, feel free to repost it.

http://dirkb.dnsalias.net/onewheeltrailer.html
from KÃ¸benhavn

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:37 pm

Well, those are "recumbent" bicycles. On roads, recumbents (sometimes abbreviated to "bents") are superior to normal upright bicycles in a couple of ways.

*The frontal area is smaller, for lower wind resistance.

*The rider can apply more more force to the pedals by pushing against the backrest. (An upright rider must spend energy to pull himself downward by the handlebar to achieve a similar effect. An upright rider is otherwise limited to the force of his weight on the pedals.)

*The recumbent seat is HECKA more comfortable than an upright bicycle saddle.

Recumbents were banned from bicycle road racing decades ago because they were faster than "normal" bicycles.
These two are short-wheelbase recumbents; the front wheel is behind the pedals. There are also long-wheelbase recumbents, with the front wheel out in front.
What's unusual about these two 'bents, is that they are front wheel drive. This simplifies routing of the chain, but complicates steering.

*For one thing, human legs can not bend sideways to accomodate sharp turns.

*Worse, these particular bikes have gruesome steering geometry. They essentially steer by being "hinged in the middle". The pivot point is at the front edge of the seat. On the yellow bike, look behind the rider's knee. I have some experience with center-pivot steering from Kinetic Sculpture Racing. Please take my word for it, that it is not ideal! The builder of these two bikes discusses this on his site.
Front wheel drive with normal steering geometry is perfectly possible. But human legs will never bend sideways without severe uh... side effects.

In case I have not mentioned it before.... Besides the Bait Bikes, I am rigging up several "Gimmick Bikes" for all burners to play with at my camp. These are less lethal than the Bait Bikes, but should still provide a sporting challenge to ride. I'll see if I can bring some sort of center-pivot bike. I'll be in Terminal Village.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:05 pm

There are definitely people around who ride them here. I wonder if the lower profile puts them at greater risk of invisibility in traffic.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:10 pm

They definitely need flags, which I think are a good idea on bikes in traffic anyway.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:26 pm

Wow interesting steering for sure on those two 'bents.
Elliot! Question for you in particular and others in general: ever come across a rear-steer/front drive bike? Once upon a time I sketched out one I thought would be rideable and handle properly (had a positive rake fork on the rear with underseat steering). But I never built it (yet). THEN I ran across this fascinating page about RWSB contraptions: RearWheelSteerBikes,

even has a photo of the playa with the Force car and Flatmo of KSR fame.

SO! I will attempt a rear-wheel-steer bike to bring and add to the bait/gimmick bike collection.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:01 am

Using a bike against thieves