Tranporting Gas

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
HuDannie
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Tranporting Gas

Post by HuDannie » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:38 am

I have two 55 gal barrels, I was thinking about one for water and one for Gas. I'll be traveling in an RV with its holding tanks full but the more the better. I don't see a problem transporting fuel this way, they do it all the time. I was hoping for some good advice, i don't want to endanger anyone. Thank you for your help.

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Post by Sham » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:22 am

It would seem to me that gasoline must be transported in an approved container that would provide proper venting, transport and storage. When I need large amounts of gasoline for backup on the playa, I use several 6 gallon containers and store them under a vehicle in the shade. They are easy to handle and safe. Also, I can keep one in my art car when roaming the playa and use it if I need it or help someone out should they run low.
You can use your second 55 gallon drum for transporting gray water out of the event.

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:40 am

Transporting gasoline in a non-approved drum like that is a disaster waiting to happen. I solved that problem by obtaining a 50-gallon side-mount truck fuel tank and mounting in on my trailer. That's a lot better way to go, it's designed NOT to split wide open if smashed, is vented, and won't fall over.
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:41 am

Transporting gasoline in a non-approved drum like that is a disaster waiting to happen. I solved that problem by obtaining a 50-gallon side-mount truck fuel tank and mounting in on my trailer. That's a lot better way to go, it's designed NOT to split wide open if smashed, is vented, and won't fall over.
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Post by Playa Foot » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:14 am

Why do you need 55 gallons off gasoline? If yu fuel up in Reno or Fernley you will have plenty of gas fr the tro to the playa, the trip back and have plenty to run your generator.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:39 am

Playa Foot wrote:Why do you need 55 gallons off gasoline? If yu fuel up in Reno or Fernley you will have plenty of gas fr the tro to the playa, the trip back and have plenty to run your generator.

how, can you make that statement?........and, why ask that question?
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Post by HuDannie » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:47 am

I don't know how much will use the gen, so I over estimated. I figured the more the better.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:51 am

HuDannie wrote:I don't know how much will use the gen, so I over estimated. I figured the more the better.
good call.......better to have some left than run out.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:20 am

I dread this. I can't carry it in the van, but I'm going to need it.
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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:23 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I dread this. I can't carry it in the van, but I'm going to need it.
will your campmates bring some for you?
If not, let me know, I can throw on an extra can or two.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:27 am

ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I dread this. I can't carry it in the van, but I'm going to need it.
will your campmates bring some for you?
If not, let me know, I can throw on an extra can or two.
In a general sense, yes. IN a specific sense as to who is bringing how much, no. I don't think we ran out last year, so maybe I shouldn't fuss; but I'd like to be able to hand someone $30 for five or six gallons and know that that's the end of it. Or whatever.
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Re: Tranporting Gas

Post by phil » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:34 am

HuDannie wrote:I have two 55 gal barrels, I was thinking about one for water and one for Gas. I'll be traveling in an RV with its holding tanks full but the more the better. I don't see a problem transporting fuel this way, they do it all the time. I was hoping for some good advice, i don't want to endanger anyone. Thank you for your help.
I'm wondering who it is that does this all the time.

Water weighs over 8 lbs a gallon. Gasoline weighs over 6 lbs a gallon. You've added a serious amount of weight to your vehicle. I can't imagine driving a highway speeds in an RV with a 55-gallon drum of gasoline. And another of water.

Additionally:
http://www.burningman.com/installations ... orage.html
says you have to have secondary containment for more than 20 gallons of fuel, with a safety perimeter of 30 feet around the container.

How do you plan on getting the water and gas out of the drums? Are you going to keep the drums in your RV? I know that every time I touch metal on the playa, I get a spark and a shock. Is your drum grounded? Is whatever you're transferring fuel to grounded? Are you grounded?

Everybody gets to take their chances on the playa, so the decision is yours. But I really recommend getting some information on the risks you're taking and exposing others to. Make an informed decision.

Seriously. Who is it that does this all the time?

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Post by Token » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:37 am

When dealing with class III liquid fuels, famous for their flammability, excellent solvent characteristics and explosive vapors, the general idea of a few people telling you that you are about to do something incredibly stupid, is to take that at face value.

You know, like when your best buddy chugs from the milk carton in front of your fridge, makes that classic "I just got a mouthful of crap" face, then sprays the content of his mouth all over your kitchen and hands you the milk carton: "Fuck! Thats rancid! Here, try it".

Well, unless you're a special kind of crazy, you don't drink it. You take your Bro's statement at face value.

So, please use only approved red gas containers. There are a dozen real good reasons why you should do this, maybe more. Just take it on its face value as great advice.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:55 am

very good points, Phil and Token.........thanks for sharing.
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Post by HuDannie » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:06 am

thanks token, ur the best. Ill re-work my plans then.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:03 pm

I just came up with an idea:
I'm going to put 30 gal HDPE fuel proof containers inside a 55 gal. steel drum, to shade them, and, for spill containment and puncture protection.
Painting them light gray, and will write flammable on the side.

How does that sound, Phil, Token, anyone?
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Post by Optoman » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:20 pm

Please DO NOT, under any circumstances, bring a 55 gallon drum of gasoline to the playa in your RV. I can't think of a potentially more dangerous thing you could do, except maybe packing it next to your fireworks stash.

First thing you should do is get a good estimate of gas you are likely to need on playa. Most RV generators don't burn alot of fuel; if you don't have experience with your genny ask the rental company or RV owner for guidance on this particular unit. Most folks run their gennys around 2-6 hours a day, depending on comfort desires for AC and use of appliances.

My experience is that 10 gallons of gas is plenty to run even a big RV genny for the week, which can be brought to the playa in a couple of approved containers and stored properly in the shade, per the guidelines in the survival guide.

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Post by Token » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:29 pm

ygmir wrote:I just came up with an idea:
I'm going to put 30 gal HDPE fuel proof containers inside a 55 gal. steel drum, to shade them, and, for spill containment and puncture protection.
Painting them light gray, and will write flammable on the side.

How does that sound, Phil, Token, anyone?
Find any post by JKisha, look at the avatar, cumm to the conclusion yourself.

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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 pm

ygmir wrote:I just came up with an idea:
I'm going to put 30 gal HDPE fuel proof containers inside a 55 gal. steel drum, to shade them, and, for spill containment and puncture protection.
Painting them light gray, and will write flammable on the side.

How does that sound, Phil, Token, anyone?
I'm pretty sure gasoline cans are supposed to be red. I cannot think of a reason you'd paint them and it kinda takes some safety away...
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Post by BurningRando » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:20 pm

What color can do I use for diesel?

And 2-stroke gas/oil premixed?

What about Kerosine?

Is there a color for JP8 jet fuel?

Please help me! I'm a noob!

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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:09 pm

Diesel is red too...possibly black

Kero is blue

bio diesel is yellow
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Post by Sic Pup » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Fire_Moose wrote:Diesel is red too...possibly black

Kero is blue

bio diesel is yellow
This is probably a very stupid question but I'll ask anyway, other than the color is there any significant difference between and the various purposed cans?

My vehicle is a TDI and I went with a 2 gal gas can to conserve space as the diesel can only came in a 5gal version in the orange big box store.

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Post by Sham » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:35 pm

To my knowledge, there is no difference in the containers, except for the color and the molded markings on them telling what's inside. This is important stuff! If you use the gasoline one for karosine, there will always be residue and you'll always have to remember what you put in there. Also, you'll have to tell everyone that uses your container that you're a bubblehead and it's not what's really in it.

This happened at our camp a few years back when someone bought new gas containers and filled them with water. As he was leaving, he asked if I wanted the water and after confirming that it was fresh water, I poured it into our RV water filler. The owner of the RV almost had a stroke right before my very eyes. It took a while to calm him down.

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Post by Sic Pup » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Good point, thanks. I did mark it with a sharpie but I'll probably just trash it when I return. I just bought it as a precaution in case somehow I get stranded in the middle of nowhere with no cell service.

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Post by phil » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:03 pm

The State of California has 'required colors' for fuel containers that I'm guessing comply with some rules or other:
a) Gasoline – red;
b) Diesel – yellow;
c) Kerosene – blue.

Each container must be permanently labeled for its content, and the materials used in the container (including seals and o-rings) must not be damaged by the content it's made for.

Fuel containers are supposed to be not only spill-proof but vapor proof, which is more important than not spilling - it is the evaporation at normal temperatures that causes fuels to be volatile and that causes explosions. It's very important to use a container that does not allow for the vapors to leave the container and collect in, say, the RV or van.

Among the purposes for the color-coding is alerting fire fighters to what specifically they're dealing with. Gasoline is much more volatile than kerosene and diesel.

Water containers are supposed to be tan or light blue.

For more information, see
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/pfc/2005/cp501.pdf
a production of the California Air Resources Board, which controls such things as vaporizing gasoline.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:26 pm

ok, so, I paint the steel drum red. and, the HDPE inner drum red.
I just like the idea of having one drum inside the other, so, if the inner one, in any fashion, were to leak, it'd be contained in the outer one.
and, the outer one provides a modicum of shade, for the actual fuel container.

how's that sound?
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Post by Elliot » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:33 pm

When I become Emperor Of The World, I am going to make everyone use proper terminology to describe fuels and other dangerous Stuffs. There are so many kinds of "gas" out there.

The "gas" most automobiles run on is Gasoline. (And gasoline is not even a gas; it is a liquid.)

The "gas" that heats my rural home is Propane.

The "gas" that heats a city dweller's home is Natural Gas.

Supposedly, somebody once tried to refuel an automobile from the Natural Gas plumbing in a house -- with sad results.
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:26 pm

I'd like to mention something else: don't listen to people who say things like "55 gallons? How could anyone possibly need that much?"
Those people do not operate the same machinery and don't understand fuel logistics. I use every bit of 50 gallons at BM and consider that amount a minimum. I used to bring 100 gallons, but that tank doesn't fit my current trailer arrangement. If you're gonna run A/C I find it best to leave it on all day, once you get your rig chilled you don't wanna let it heat back up. If you're going to use the big Onan or whatever your RV has in it, you'll be surprised at how much fuel it does use.

Never listen to nature camper types when discussing machinery!
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Post by Mosin » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:33 pm

Amen CGD. Our mid-70s Onan RV genny drinks ~1gl of gas per hour under a medium load...basically keeping one of two roof-mount a/c units going should we want/need to sleep during the day. Budgeting a potential 6 hrs per day of genny use @ 7 days on the playa = 42gl. Our aux tank that feeds the genny is only 26 gal, so I bring 3 5gl Jerry cans to make up the difference. Last year we probably only used ~30gl on the genny, but better safe than sorry.
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Post by much2naughty2 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:43 pm

Once again, CGD and Token share their sage advice. Please take it, or let us know where you are camped so we can set up our lawn chairs at a safe distance around your camp to watch the show/glow.

My toy hauler RV has an integrated 30 gallon tank, with grounding cable and approved fueling nozzel, and 5 minute shut off on the pump. It's a great system. I wish more trailers had one.

My new Honda EU3000is recomennded by the afore mention pros, will run between 7 and 20 hours on 3.4 gallons of fuel, depending on load. Since the purpose of the genset is to run AC, I'll be a lot closer to the 7 hour run,for 8 days. I hope that gets us through the heat of the day. if my math is right, that's 27.2 gallons. Just about right, and the rest I can pump into my rig before leaving.

Spend a little time and money getting the right container/s and do your own research for your generator to calculate how much fuel you need. The life you save, might be your own, or mine,,,,

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