Newb MOOP question

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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JStep
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Newb MOOP question

Post by JStep » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:13 pm

Virgin with a MOOP question here:

What's with the 2-ply only, no flush-able wipes/tampons etc?

I know the ethic and the tips, I've been reading all about BM for a couple weeks now and this is one thing I don't understand. The reason being that I go to a lot of music fests with biffies and the systems of the crews that clean them don't have any problems with normal septic waste such as regular TP and flush-able items. Are the systems used by the crews servicing BM antiquated or something?

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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:38 pm

I suspect it's a distance thing. If something goes wrong, it's three hours round trip for parts and expertise. Or maybe it's about the amount of usage. I'm not sure. Robbidobbs or Life in Reno (I know that's not the name...grilling avatar, if that helps) knows better than I do.
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Eric
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Post by Eric » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:14 pm

It's single ply only, not 2 ply.

As far as I know it has to do with the diameter of the hose & the sheer volume of "waste" that has to be cleared. Multiply that by the number of potties in each bank (15 or 20?) by the number of banks, and the fact they all need to be cleaned twice a day.... if something clogs a hose it's a huge pain.

By trying to get the "one ply only" rule in peoples heads they're hoping to keep the problems contained. A simple phrase goes much further than a long winded explanation (see also "piss clear")

If we lose the potties, the event is over. Period.
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Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:18 pm

Only one-ply non cotton TP and bodily excretions rule comes from the processing ability of the sewer plant where the shit eventually gets trucked to.

The story I've heard is...
They require all our shit be free of non shit debris because one year a load completely plugged the headworks of the sewage plant and that caused the operators a huge headache. It shut the plant down for a while apparently and that is a very bad thing. They won't accept our sewage if we ever cause their treatment plant trouble again. They required that all the shit be filtered for trash before they take it. There is basically nowhere else to take our shit so....

Everything that gets sucked out of the portapoties gets filtered on site at the (JOTS)United Site Service camp. Last year there was a 40 yard dumpster full off baby wipes, feminine products and minimal other debris. The centrifuge separators that are used to get all this junk out of the human waste stream have to be manually cleaned by hand in full hazmat gear. It is just respectful to try to limit the USS guys needing to perform this dangerous task. Especially in regular 95 degree + heat.

Baby wipes are the biggest problem but basically anything with cotton (included in most 2 ply TP) plugs the separator really fast. In the worse case scenario the limited run time of the separators due to them being plugged up frequently would cause a back up in the servicing of the portapotties. If that back up gets to where there is 6 inches of waste above the seat then the health department shuts down the entire event.

The best way to insure the survival of the event is to make sure to treat the potties with respect making the USS guys job as easy as possible. It is a monumental task dealing with 50,000 peoples waste for over a week. They do it exceptionally well.

We keep doing better every year but every year the USS guys ask us to do whatever we can to eliminate baby wipes from the waste stream. It is their biggest headache. If you like using baby wipes just pack them back out with you when you leave the potty in a nice little ziplok. Not too tough. I just use baby wipes at my camp and throw them directly in the trash. Now the baby wipes that were blowing in to our camp on Monday was just gross. Yeah I caught them and stopped their moopy journey. Ugh gross.
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Post by Thecatman » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:26 pm

This year I accidently knocked about 1/3 of a roll of buttwipe into a pot.
Felt really bad because now theres the cardboard tube to deal with.
I'm sure there was wore stuff thrown in.
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Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:40 pm

Thecatman wrote:This year I accidently knocked about 1/3 of a roll of buttwipe into a pot.
Felt really bad because now theres the cardboard tube to deal with.
I'm sure there was wore stuff thrown in.
Yeah accidents happen and that sort of thing is expected. It is best to keep the cardboard tube out of the potty(set it on the shelf that is in many of the potties) but the wrapper for the TP can go in the potty. The wrapper does not pose a problem.

Some more general info for ya.
If the potty you come up to is locked or ziptied shut use another one. It is most likely that the USS guys have locked it because there is something in the potty that they can not suck up with the hose. They have locked it so that they can come back to it and deal with the problem. Once they get it back in order it will be unlocked and good to go.

At the beginning and after the end of the event nearly all the portapotties are zip tied shut. Several on each end of each bank are open to use. This is so that the number of potties to be serviced matches the number of people at the event. The USS guys will open the potties at the right time. Opening ones they have done a final cleaning on and locked at the end of the event just makes them have to do more work and use more resources.
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Post by Stickygreen » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:28 am

Put your baby wipes in a burnable pile, no need to pack it all the way home....
)'(

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Post by LostinReno » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:04 pm

Motsky pretty much nailed it. The occasion TP drop is no big thing, it's the f'tards that throw thier bottles, cans etc in there. Seems like we saw a LOT more of that this year than last. The easier the separator runs throughout the week the better. Like everything else at BRC, the douche factor seems to multiply the closer you get to the weekend. They haul the holding tanks, separator/hopper, etc out there about a week or two in advance, distance to civilization is a huge factor. It's not like they can get another one much less parts easiliy if one breaks down. They had 3 holding tanks this year and still could barely keep up. The liquid waste gets shipped out of BRC 3 times a day via 4 tankers and ends up at a farm in Lovelock=280 miles round trip....(some more useless trivia for your noggin :wink: )

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Post by JStep » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:37 pm

Thanks to all who replied. Mostsky, you cleared up my confusion completely. Makes sense now that I know that there's a whole vetting process involved between shit-sucking and shit-delivery.

Drawing on my past experience, it seems like slit latrines could really be a viable option, but I'm not used to the "douche-factor" plus the somewhat cult-like adherence to the LNT principle. I like the idea of burning wipes (which sounds like a fratboy event within the event).

Thanks again for this educational exercise, this "stealth virgin" (thanks Kit) will definitely be thinking on potty education further.
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Post by Trishntek » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:46 pm

I took ygmir's advice to heart and found it works like a hot damn!

When you visit the JOTS for a #2, take sufficient 1-ply ass wipe for the job and a zip lock bag with 3 baby wipes. The first baby wipe is for the door handles and seat upon entering. The second is for your ass and dangly bits after you do your duty. The third is to wipe the seat and door handles (not in that order) upon exiting. Put all three in the zip lock and trash it.

We always left it better than we found it and were refreshed on the bottom!
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Post by AntiM » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:02 am

Door handles? Huh. I guess I'm a pretty dirty hippie. Actually, I don't like baby wipes unless I must, they irritate my tender bits. I spritz.

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Post by JStep » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:57 am

AntiM wrote:Door handles? Huh. I guess I'm a pretty dirty hippie. Actually, I don't like baby wipes unless I must, they irritate my tender bits. I spritz.
I think the trick is to dry wipe/pat with TP after the final wet wipe. I notice they can kind of give a heat rash sort of prickle if just left wet.

I'm not a germaphobe at all when it comes to seat and door handles. If they look clean, they are. Studies show the toilet seat is, unless visibly soiled I imagine, one of the cleanest things in a public restroom, as are the door handles and sink fixtures, the 3 areas people get all heebie jeebie about. The toilet seat in a typical public potty is cleaner than the mouth of the average bloke sitting on it. There's probably more germ exchange from a kiss than a shit.l
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Post by phil » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:08 am

> There's probably more germ exchange from a kiss than a shit.l

Absolutely true. See http://www.salon.com/health/col/roac/20 ... index.html for more information.

If people want to wipe down the interior of the portapotty before they sit in one, that's their choice. It's cleaner in there than on their kitchen counter, though.

If people want to use babywipes, I recommend making your own and saving the planet:
http://mobry.dyndns.org/~bhorling/proje ... 003.wipes/
and you get to use your band saw or table saw.

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Post by lucky420 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:10 am

eewwww I have no problem with the potty seat after all it's just my thighs/ass that touch that. The door handle is quite different-say someone before you wiped but got (microscopic) poop on their hand and didn't notice it. They then grab the door handle and exit. You go in next and touch that handle. Of course you wash your hands after you're done, but if for some reason you touch your face/eyes before you've washed your hands, well then you've possibly transferred those germs onto your face...yuck. I use a piece of tp or a piece of my clothing to touch the door handle when I am exit.

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Post by JStep » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:23 am

lucky420 wrote:eewwww I have no problem with the potty seat after all it's just my thighs/ass that touch that. The door handle is quite different-say someone before you wiped but got (microscopic) poop on their hand and didn't notice it. They then grab the door handle and exit. You go in next and touch that handle. Of course you wash your hands after you're done, but if for some reason you touch your face/eyes before you've washed your hands, well then you've possibly transferred those germs onto your face...yuck. I use a piece of tp or a piece of my clothing to touch the door handle when I am exit.
Yeah, I know, I used to do the same. It's been studied. Probably because it gets touched so often, like the faucet knobs etc, it's one of the cleanest things in the place. I'd look up the study if I wasn't lazy. They studied peoples bathroom habits and then did bacteria cultures of all the surfaces in the restroom to see if people's habits were effective or made sense. The conclusion from the study is no. We do everything backwards, from choosing the last stall most of the time (the first stall is cleanest, the last is dirtiest) to using paper towel to insulate ourselves from the cleanest things in the place. Then we bend down and tie our shoes with bare hands without a thought, LOL.
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Post by lucky420 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:28 am

lol, well I'm still not touching it...but you do have a good point

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Post by AntiM » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:40 am

Women's purses are filthy, and then they get placed on kitchen counters, tables, couches. And people who let babies put keys in their mouths, euw.

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Post by Boijoy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:40 am

I ain't touching no bathroom door handle with my hands.. nope, no , nada, you can't make me. I once took a "piss finder" into a mens room & it was like a Pollock painting in there. Including the door handle. ew!
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Post by AntiM » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:42 am

Who's pissing on the Pollocks?

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:43 am

Piss finder? You help finding this in a JOTS?

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Post by Boijoy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:54 am

we had a problem with our cat once. It's basically a black light.
took it to BM one year because it's battery operated. :)

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Post by Bob » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:58 am

JStep wrote:Drawing on my past experience, it seems like slit latrines could really be a viable option, but I'm not used to the "douche-factor" plus the somewhat cult-like adherence to the LNT principle.
LNT is written into the BLM permit requirements, my Rainbow brotherman/sisterwoman.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:34 am

Thanks for fielding that, Bob.
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:26 pm

People today are way too germ phobic, primarily caused by all the billions of dollars in advertising by companies selling all those sanitizing products to clean your home and bathroom.

The under-reported side effects of using all these products is that it tends to create super-germs as only those germs that can survive the disinfectants breed and pass on those resistant genes.

Second, exposure to many of those germs actually helps to boost the immune system and makes us more resistant to the maladies they might cause.

So, being "too" clean is really not as good for you as it is hyped up to be.

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Post by JStep » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:48 pm

jkisha wrote:People today are way too germ phobic, primarily caused by all the billions of dollars in advertising by companies selling all those sanitizing products to clean your home and bathroom.

The under-reported side effects of using all these products is that it tends to create super-germs as only those germs that can survive the disinfectants breed and pass on those resistant genes.

Second, exposure to many of those germs actually helps to boost the immune system and makes us more resistant to the maladies they might cause.

So, being "too" clean is really not as good for you as it is hyped up to be.

JK
Thank you! I get looked at like I'm loony when I ask people what their immune system is for if they're going to scrub everything with lysol and live in a bubble. One of the places they find the most deadly (and scary) super germs are on nurses stations, since they are frequently exposed to antibiotics as well as disinfected many times per day. They sometimes find germs and viruses that nothing known to man will kill, short of incineration or substances like hydrochloric acid that will destroy the surface anyway.

The kids who do things like suck on their parent's keychain, find candy in the street and eat it (guilty!) and eat dirt... they're better off in the long run. Those shut ins that never get exposed to anything have no resistance to anything.
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Post by Boijoy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:57 pm

jkisha wrote:People today are way too germ phobic, primarily caused by all the billions of dollars in advertising by companies selling all those sanitizing products to clean your home and bathroom.

The under-reported side effects of using all these products is that it tends to create super-germs as only those germs that can survive the disinfectants breed and pass on those resistant genes.

Second, exposure to many of those germs actually helps to boost the immune system and makes us more resistant to the maladies they might cause.

So, being "too" clean is really not as good for you as it is hyped up to be.

JK
Or perhaps JK, some people ( like me ) DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLES POO ON THEIR HANDS!!!! just sayin' :wink:
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Post by mudpuppy000 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:07 pm

Trishntek wrote:I took ygmir's advice to heart and found it works like a hot damn!

When you visit the JOTS for a #2, take sufficient 1-ply ass wipe for the job and a zip lock bag with 3 baby wipes. The first baby wipe is for the door handles and seat upon entering. The second is for your ass and dangly bits after you do your duty. The third is to wipe the seat and door handles (not in that order) upon exiting. Put all three in the zip lock and trash it.

We always left it better than we found it and were refreshed on the bottom!
I kept a can of lysol in my pack to spray down anything I wanted to clean, then used TP, so no need for baby wipes. Never tried it on my junk though... That might hurt. I bet you could find some sort of multi purpose cleaner/sanitizer and avoid baby wipes all together.

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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:08 pm

Don't be silly JK, they don't make jeans for germs!
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:16 pm

Boijoy wrote:
jkisha wrote:People today are way too germ phobic, primarily caused by all the billions of dollars in advertising by companies selling all those sanitizing products to clean your home and bathroom.

The under-reported side effects of using all these products is that it tends to create super-germs as only those germs that can survive the disinfectants breed and pass on those resistant genes.

Second, exposure to many of those germs actually helps to boost the immune system and makes us more resistant to the maladies they might cause.

So, being "too" clean is really not as good for you as it is hyped up to be.

JK
Or perhaps JK, some people ( like me ) DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLES POO ON THEIR HANDS!!!! just sayin' :wink:
Some cultures cook with sun dried poo patties. They have no qualms picking up these patties with their fingers.

And I probably shouldn't go here, but some people like anal intercourse...no matter how much cleaning you do, you can't get it all! Or is it only your hands you are concerned with? ;)

JK
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Post by Boijoy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:01 pm

poo on the hands is an abomination. :lol:
don't forget to floss

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