How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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mdmf007
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:35 am

jaycerochester wrote:For what it's worth, my original plan was to head to the quasi-marked roads here because I figured there'd be a rail crossing. The satellite photos show one by the microwave road crossing too, though.


You got it.

Id head straight for the trash fence and follow it around until you get to the entrance on the south side. Have ticket in hand and you will minimize hassles.

MDMF

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Postby stormlight » Mon May 16, 2011 2:51 pm

A lot of good info and maps on BLM site for Black Rock Desert. It is still unclear to me what portion of playa controlled by Burning Man during event. Obviously, inside the fence but as I recall there is some additional perimeter. This all goes to access to Black Rock Desert from Jungo Road as there are numerous approved roads across the northern section and from East side. Question is best place to meet the mob and since you are already on Jungo or other approved BLM roads why drive all the way to Gerlach. This is link:
[http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_programs/planning/Black_Rock_Desert-High_Rock_Canyon_Emigrant_Trails_National_Conservation_Area/black_rock_desert-high.html]
Just thinking out loud...

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Postby portaplaya » Mon May 16, 2011 3:09 pm

If you come inside the marked closure area you will get a ticket from a BLM Ranger. Stay to the "marked" roads and do not "head straight to the trash fence".

There will be a billboard posted in front of all Jungo-to-playa roads showing where the closure area is on a map.

As I suggested before, cut over the open playa from Trego to the west playa highway and you will avoid the closure area by a mile or two.

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Postby ygmir » Mon May 16, 2011 5:38 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
jaycerochester wrote:For what it's worth, my original plan was to head to the quasi-marked roads here because I figured there'd be a rail crossing. The satellite photos show one by the microwave road crossing too, though.


You got it.

Id head straight for the trash fence and follow it around until you get to the entrance on the south side. Have ticket in hand and you will minimize hassles.

MDMF


I'd say, that if you head straight for the trash fence, you are very likely to be met by some of the good looking perimeter folk.
and, hope it's them. BLM may well ticket you.
And, depending on who the perimeter folk are , it can be anything from "follow us", to, "head that way and don't stop" to, "head that way a half mile until you're outside the closure area, to "hold on while I call LE".
It's hard to bet who you will encounter, their attitude or that of the shift lead.
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:52 pm

ygmir wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:
jaycerochester wrote:For what it's worth, my original plan was to head to the quasi-marked roads here because I figured there'd be a rail crossing. The satellite photos show one by the microwave road crossing too, though.


You got it.

Id head straight for the trash fence and follow it around until you get to the entrance on the south side. Have ticket in hand and you will minimize hassles.

MDMF


I'd say, that if you head straight for the trash fence, you are very likely to be met by some of the good looking perimeter folk.
and, hope it's them. BLM may well ticket you.
And, depending on who the perimeter folk are , it can be anything from "follow us", to, "head that way and don't stop" to, "head that way a half mile until you're outside the closure area, to "hold on while I call LE".
It's hard to bet who you will encounter, their attitude or that of the shift lead.


True, and im not merely making guesses - I have worked perimeter, and still work another depertment at BMAN. When working Perimeter and I came across someone that HAS a ticket we would send them to the gate for entry. If they dont have a ticket it goes two ways.

1. They have never heard of BMAN and are on playa - its obvious if someone is coming to BMAN by their rig, the way their packed etc. If they arent going to BMAN and are camping on playa - they are well within their right to do so.

2. They have no ticket and its obvious they are going to BMAN - they are directed to go buy a ticket. Rarely did we call LE. Depends totally on the situation.

of course i havent done perimeter for 3 years. YMMV.

MDMF

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Postby ygmir » Mon May 16, 2011 7:59 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
ygmir wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:
jaycerochester wrote:For what it's worth, my original plan was to head to the quasi-marked roads here because I figured there'd be a rail crossing. The satellite photos show one by the microwave road crossing too, though.


You got it.

Id head straight for the trash fence and follow it around until you get to the entrance on the south side. Have ticket in hand and you will minimize hassles.

MDMF


I'd say, that if you head straight for the trash fence, you are very likely to be met by some of the good looking perimeter folk.
and, hope it's them. BLM may well ticket you.
And, depending on who the perimeter folk are , it can be anything from "follow us", to, "head that way and don't stop" to, "head that way a half mile until you're outside the closure area, to "hold on while I call LE".
It's hard to bet who you will encounter, their attitude or that of the shift lead.


True, and im not merely making guesses - I have worked perimeter, and still work another depertment at BMAN. When working Perimeter and I came across someone that HAS a ticket we would send them to the gate for entry. If they dont have a ticket it goes two ways.

1. They have never heard of BMAN and are on playa - its obvious if someone is coming to BMAN by their rig, the way their packed etc. If they arent going to BMAN and are camping on playa - they are well within their right to do so.

2. They have no ticket and its obvious they are going to BMAN - they are directed to go buy a ticket. Rarely did we call LE. Depends totally on the situation.

of course i havent done perimeter for 3 years. YMMV.

MDMF

and, I'd say, your scenario is most likely.
I just want to make sure, the OP, or anyone thinking of emulating him, knows, it's not "fer sure", and, other possibilities exist, some not so fun.

Last year, we spotted a couple of young men way out in the closure, near pt.1.
BLM got there first
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon May 16, 2011 9:25 pm

Absolutely. Like YGMIR said and I agree - it depends on whom you get, and what mood they are in. You WILL get confronted when on playa and headed towards BRC but I say go for it. The worst that happens is that they make you skirt the edge of the closure, and that is all they really can do. You still save many miles over going to Gerlach though.

MDMF

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Postby Clar-i-ty » Mon May 16, 2011 11:42 pm

If LEO gets you first we will laugh mercilessly. You've been warned and advised.
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Postby Kinetik V » Tue May 17, 2011 12:13 am

50 - 1 when they see the bike and learn his story they'll be more inclined to help him out vs. harass. Not all LE are bad.
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Postby Bob » Tue May 17, 2011 1:06 am

ygmir wrote:Last year, we spotted a couple of young men way out in the closure, near pt.1.
BLM got there first


Small arms don't show up on the radar.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue May 17, 2011 9:40 am

Jay, I am waiting to see if you have tested this vehicle yet.

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Postby ygmir » Tue May 17, 2011 9:45 am

Bob wrote:
ygmir wrote:Last year, we spotted a couple of young men way out in the closure, near pt.1.
BLM got there first


Small arms don't show up on the radar.


the can still see me.

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Postby gyre » Tue May 17, 2011 9:45 am

What drive are you using?

Nuvinci?
Some other hubgear?
Rohloff?
Sram?
Shimano?

I applaud your insane insanity.

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Postby gyre » Tue May 17, 2011 9:47 am

Bob wrote:
ygmir wrote:Last year, we spotted a couple of young men way out in the closure, near pt.1.
BLM got there first


Small arms don't show up on the radar.


lol?

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Postby Rice » Tue May 17, 2011 3:46 pm

The only way to legally get to gate is to exit from highway 34 at the 11 mile entrance.

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/t ... tions.html

BLM Exclusion info: http://www.burningman.com/preparation/b ... tions.html

Please do not waste Perimeter & BLM's time by cutting across. There is not excuse.

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Postby Zhust » Fri May 20, 2011 4:32 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Jay, I am waiting to see if you have tested this vehicle yet.


Yeah, me too. So far I am still working on paper and CAD although I'm pretty close on the drivetrain and not far behind on the front suspension/steering. I have learned through the years that designing far beyond what I think is "too much time" is the way to go: it's way easier to make a few lines 2 inches longer on CAD than in steel.

That said, it's also a balancing act as to which tool is most valuable. For the drivetrain and added 2-speed transmission, it's all CAD and the precision parts I'll have built by someone who knows how. For the front suspension, I'm sketching out the rudimentary geometry to ensure clearances, but I'll make the final decisions in steel. It all depends.

Also, we've had a very rainy few months here and I haven't had much time at all to get outside and weld. In a way that's good because I feel less guilty spending so much time on design (even though I know it's a good thing.)
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Postby Zhust » Fri May 20, 2011 4:47 am

gyre wrote:What drive are you using?


I ordered a NuVinci from my friend at the bike shop down the street. The plan is to go from 180mm-190mm cranks (no clearance issues on a recumbent) to a tall gear into the NuVinci so the hub and transmission parts run at higher-speed and lower-torque. The NuVinci has a ratio range of 0.5x to 1.75x. I'm designing adapters to go to a high-gear and a low-gear with a custom shifter. The high-gear ratio is 2.2x and the low 0.5x (although they're adjustable with different sprocket combinations.) The transmission goes to a heavier gage chain to the main drive, gearing it back down again.

With all the other ratios in place, the two speeds give me a choice between a low-range of 0.2x to 0.8x and a high range of 1.0x to 3.5x. In terms of gear-inches (which, if you imagine a pennyfarthing big-front-wheel bike, it's the effective diameter of that wheel) is a range of 5.2 to 18.2 and 22.9 to 80.0 gear-inches respectively. So pedaling at 85 rpm (pretty near peak power output), I can drive 1.3 to 4.6 mph in low and 5.8 to 20.2 in high. At a range of 15 rpm to 150 rpm, that translates, overall, to 0.23 mph to 35 mph, and assuming I can put a maximum of 300 pounds of force on the pedal at a standstill, the lowest gearing will yield around 800 pounds of forward force at the drive wheel.
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Postby Major Krash » Fri May 20, 2011 5:54 am

...a data point; I built a bicycle powered tracked vehicle in 2006 (BioTrak). Never actually weighed it, but I know it was more than my "design weight" of 800 lbs fully loaded...I had no problem pedaling it forward (moved at maybe 1 mph)

Turning was an entirely different matter....

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Jungo Road topographic profile

Postby Fox43 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:08 am

jayrcerochester,

I'm not a Burner nor do I have any set plans to become one, notwithstanding the fact that BM seems to be a Spectacle of the first order, and I love a good spectacle........but I digress.

I follow ePlaya to a limited degree since there are some fine, proven, and inexpensive tips on enjoying the Nevada desert, and I do plan some two to three week expeditions across the northern tier of Nevada within the next 5 years, possibly enroute to BM on one of them. My long in advance study focuses on topographic map study since my training as a geologist taught me that's an ideal way to begin planning any traverse.

Anyway, I'd recommend a close look at the topographic profile of your Jungo Road route. I believe profile software is readily available within many GPS units and support software but my own needs have not included profile analysis so I have not sought related software.

After coming across this thread last night, I did look at the Benchmark Maps Nevada book, which includes Landscape maps at 1:280,000 scale (approx 1" = 4.42 miles). Based solely on a 15 minute, or less, look-see, Jungo Rd appears to run along the basin floor from Winnemucca to the Antelope Range, and at elevations between 4,000' and 4,100'. As you enter a canyon on the east side of the Antelopes, you pick up around 250' over around 8 miles distance to Antelope Summit, most of it over about the last 4 miles, then lose around 400' over around 16 miles to Sulphur. You stay on the basin floor at around 3,900' trending southwest until you reach the east/southeast side of the basin. From there all the way to NV 447 at Empire, you're right along and just above the basin floor. The map doesn't show it, but surely that segment is somewhat undulating as small erosional drainages from the +2,000' mountains to the south enter the basin and must cross the road.

Long story short, if you can get on the playa at Trego Hot Springs, and the Benchmark book shows 2 entrances there, close to one another, you can likely avoid not only the considerable distance to and back up NV 447, but possibly some unpleasantly rolling road. If that up-and-down can be avoided, it appears you have only the pass through Antelope Range to deal with in terms of material topography.

From the point of view of one who has done a bit of gentle-grade rails-to-trails cycling in recent years, I have absolutely no idea how you'll get your rig across this hundred miles, if at all, but that's not the point. The point is to have the best chance of success, you should probably study the profile well in advance of departure.

Good Luck!

Fox43

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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Miles » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:17 pm

How much cycling experience do you have? Are you designing with efficient pedal stroke in mind? I hope you're in shape.
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby pizzamancer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:21 am

You can actually see what it looks like with google maps.

Looks like no fun at all.
Image

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Re:

Postby mdmf007 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:58 am

jaycerochester wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:First one is from Google Earth - North Up.


If I got the coordinates right, I found it on Google Maps at 40° 46' 02.07" N, 119° 07' 12.26"W.

Thanks! I'll look for that turn. When I get to open Playa, I take it I cross as straight as I can west-northwest then parallel the mountains until I get to the main entrance at CR 34?



Dont worry about missing BRC, youll see it from jungo road by the time you get to the microwave crossing.
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Playa+Tom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:20 pm

You should have no problem if you follow the East Playa Road, it should be out of the closure zone. Be very careful cutting across from the road to the gate, do not cross the runway. Driving in the runway will put you in danger of 1) getting a ticket, and 2) getting run over by a Cessna.

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Re: Jungo Road topographic profile

Postby Zhust » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Fox43 wrote:Based solely on a 15 minute, or less, look-see, Jungo Rd appears to run along the basin floor from Winnemucca to the Antelope Range, and at elevations between 4,000' and 4,100'. ...


That's the impression I got from looking at USGS topographic maps: Jungo Road has a limited elevation range and tends to be fairly gradual with a few exceptions.
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Zhust » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:21 pm

Miles wrote:How much cycling experience do you have? Are you designing with efficient pedal stroke in mind? I hope you're in shape.


I'm in pretty good shape (I run 20 miles a week, and typically bike another 20 to 40). I've always been a natural at pacing myself and tend to do well with endurance. That said, this will be the first time I attempt something this grand by far, so I expect the possibility of taking much longer than I think, and the possibility that I can just turn back at any time.

I'm lately quite panicked because I don't have a frame built (except for steering assemblies and A-arms for suspension and a lot of custom-built parts). Tonight I'm doing the tedious work of laying out the frame and the details of the chain lines so I can get cracking.

My "Plan Z" is to take the Amtrak to Reno and hitch a ride somehow. There's also "Plan Sell-the-Ticket-and-Not-Go-This-Year" which I do not like to think about.
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Leo » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:30 pm

Hey Jaycerochester,
We haven't heard anything from you for awhile. How is your bike project coming? I'd like to see your rig when you arrive at BRC. Keep us posted on your progress.
Best Regards,
Leo

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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Zhust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Construction is hellatious, steady, and behind by about 2 weeks. I had hoped to be riding something by the beginning of July ... I guess I'll have to forgo extensive testing.

Nonetheless, the extra time on designing the frame (ensuring all the chain lines are straight and nothing crosses through something else or a chain) seems to be paying off. I only have to remember what is left and right when I'm working upside-down. Getting a rotating shaft centered through a pivot point is a challenge, but scrap pipe and jigs are coming in handy. Further payoff should be seen when I go to ship it and it indeed fits in the 2'x2'x4'-ish box and comes close to UPS dimensional weight — and the box transforms into a trailer for extra capacity for the luggage I'll carry on the train.

So there is a frame, suspension arms, hubs, wheels, steering pivots, all the custom parts (but one — the one that bolts onto a ISO bike disc brake mount and fits inside a Sturmey-Archer-style sprocket), nearly all the generic parts, and the starting point for lights and power.

Once the frame is finished and rideable, it will be time to build the electronics, build the trailer/carrying case, do some test runs, paint it, and get it ready to send, ready to be received by the hotel, book the hotel, and set up the itinerary.

As a concession to my concerned friends and family, I got a pay-as-you-go Verizon camera phone and figured out how to send photos with text message to http://Posterous.com which will live-blog to my main website http://JayceLand.com/blog . Verizon service runs out about 40 miles from Winnemucca.
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby wedeliver » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:42 pm

I will be following your progress, your adventure is great. We have folks come through here on bikes, recently

Have fun!
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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:54 am

Astonish me, that's all I ask.

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Re: How do I arrive and leave by Jungo Road on pedal power?

Postby sandgoddess » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:12 pm

Wow! Good Luck...You make it and you will be the Jungo King. I will personally crown you! We'll be in Winnemucca Firdayish before the Burn if you change your mind and want to catch a ride in a nice cool motorhome:) :wink:
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