The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
Post Reply

Is it useful?

I'd use it.
2
7%
I'd use it.
2
7%
I can see someone else using it.
3
10%
I can see someone else using it.
3
10%
I would change some things, then it would be useful.
6
20%
I would change some things, then it would be useful.
6
20%
Why don't you just talk to people?
3
10%
Why don't you just talk to people?
3
10%
This is too bitchy / aggressive / mean. I would never hurt someone's feelings by being so blunt.
1
3%
This is too bitchy / aggressive / mean. I would never hurt someone's feelings by being so blunt.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

Runs; With Scissors
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The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Runs; With Scissors » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:39 pm

It seems to me that even though I have repeatedly said that I would NEVER take a passenger again, I seem to agree to taking someone every year at about this time. I get upset over things (that I think should be obvious), show up to events much later than I would on my own and I end up sacrificing a lot for this other person who needed me... when I get next to nothing from them. I think that I have left myself open to be upset because I haven't negotiated things, so this year I made a doctrine to define how this rideshare thing is going to go.

Please, tell me what you think. Is there anything I left out? Am I completely off base with anything?


Rule 1: We’re a team. I am the driver. You are the co-pilot.
I can do everything, but you should meet me in the middle, because you don’t want me to do everything. In all cases, you are not my ward or responsibility. I am not accountable for anything more than transporting you and your gear from the beginning to the end.
Roles of the Driver:
1. Provide a Vehicle.
a.
  • Ensure that the vehicle is in good working condition.
    b. Maintain all insurance and registration up to date.
    c. Conduct all repairs as necessary following the event.
    d. If the vehicle fails, the driver will restore it. The driver is accountable for safety and shelter until the vehicle is recovered.
2. Drive. Be sober and alert and safe.

3. Pick up the Passenger.

4. Provide reasonable space for gear to the event. I will provide a space that is at least 1’ x 1’ x 5’. Larger items or more than that will need to be discussed at least 1 week in advance.

5. Be ready to go at the time of picking up passenger.
  • a. Fuel is full
    b. All of my gear is ready to go.
6. Compensate for all things that the Co-Pilot does not do adequately.

Roles of the Co-Pilot:
1. Be ready to go at time of pick-up.
a.
  • Have all your own gear; I will supply you with none.
    b. Have all your food already packed; we will not go to the store.
    c. Be rested, sober and clean. Do not smell like cigarettes or alcohol.
    d. I will only provide 1 x 1 x 5 in my car for your gear. If you have other things, you need to get them on a truck before I come get you.
    e. I will not transport any illegal drugs. If I find out that you have brought drugs into my car, I will abandon you in the next truck stop or refuse to give you a ride back from the event. This includes pot. I have to be very cautious about these things, my livelihood depends on it. Please do not screw me.
    f. I need to know where all fuels are stored in my car. Please only bring fuel in new, unopened cans (Coleman Camp Fuel) and sealed containers (Gasoline).
2. Share the costs.

Gas: The tank will be full when we leave (or mostly, if I filled it before leaving to come get you.) You will have the first fuel up and every other fill up. If the tank is low when we’re approaching your house and it’s your fill up, we’re fueling up.
  • a. Round Trip Estimate:
    i. Black Rock City: X / Total
    ii. Joshua Tree: Y / Total
Hotels: We’re splitting it right down the middle.

3. Navigate.
  • a. You need to know how to get me there. I will not prepare this.
    b. If we need to stop in a hotel because we are getting too tired, find one and get me there.
    c. Detour? Get on it.
    d. Winter? You’d better look at Caltrans before we go.
4. Make the drive go faster. While most people are great conversationalists, I get sick of most people and run out of things to say eventually… or… I just get sick of talking. These are some things to prepare:
  • a. Music – I like circus rock, I like swing and pop. I like emotional stuff. I like Survivor and Imagine Dragons and U2 and the Vitamin String Quartet and Passion Pit. I like cheesy shit I can sing to and country. I dislike metal and opera and you may end up buried in the desert if you think I will listen to some sort of instrumental techno all the way back from Burning Man.
    b. Short stories on an MP3 player - I like sci-fi, ghost stories, action / adventure, classics, and romances. I like complex stories with a twist. Keep them short, though. I don’t want to be wondering what happened to Joe and Suzy when I’m finally where I was going.
    c. Read up on some current event or book and teach me about it as we drive.
5. Feed me. Provide food, aka snacks for driving.
  • a. I like fresh fruit, junior mints and fine chocolate. I like Gatorade and I like water and sprite, silver red bull and lemonade. And I like Boston crème donuts. I like my nuts roasted but please, unsalted. I like pumpkin seeds too. I dislike chips, jelly anything, grape flavored things and cola.
    b. If we’re going somewhere that involves camping in the middle of the desert, prep me by feeding me watermelon as we drive. Bring one that has been cut up.

6. Keep the car comfortable
  • a. Dump all the trash out when we pull into a gas station.
    b. Bring two small sheets for the drive after the hotel, back from Burning Man, wanton muddy situations or anything you predict that one of us may become filthy from.

7. Communicate.
  • a. If you want to bring gear that is not going to fit into the car, let me know and maybe it will. If you cannot meet the expectations about gas or food or any of those, we can negotiate something else. Those are assumed until you say otherwise, and you’d better say before we leave.
    b. Let me know that you’re doing anything for the drive and I will not do it myself, like cutting up watermelon.
    c. If there’s a problem, let me know and we can fix it. Did you forget your meds? Then see if you can get your doctor to send an electronic prescription to a pharmacy in the next town. Did you forget your ticket? Maybe you can buy another in the next town, start looking on Craigslist. Maybe you can stay in Reno or SF with friends and I will get you after the burn and take you home if you cannot get a ride more quickly or another ticket. In all cases, you do not get to apologize more than 1-2 times. After that, correcting the detail will be added to the mission and a non-problem.
    d. Whiners will be donated to small desert towns like Red Mountain or Olancha.
    e. People who can make their own decisions, formulate plans, conduct negotiations and can act without my direction are appreciated.


The final approach:
When we make it to an event, several things need to happen before we go out and play. Please understand that I will be tired because I just drove the whole way, and I’m ready for a break. If you leave me to do all the work, I’ll be pretty mad and I might do unspeakable things to the stuff you left behind.

1. Help me find a good site, or be prepared to navigate within the event.

2. Unloading the car.
  • a. Your gear will be on the top, so get it out. Do not put it right in front of the access to the back of my car. That’s no better. If I'm dropping you off somewhere, do not expect me to help you unload your things from my car. I need a break and I have all of my things to unload.
    b. Don’t pull my gear out unless I ask you to help with it. I have a system for these things. Be careful not to damage my gear too. The hexiyurt is fragile.
3. Set up mutual infrastructure.
  • a. Trash – We can share, if you’ll share the work of removing it, setting up a new bag and separating it.
    b. Shade – We can share, if you will help me stand it up and stake it down.
    c. Chairs – If I am setting up all this stuff, and you take my chair away so that I can’t sit under my shade structure when I finally get a break, I’ll be mad. If you don’t have your own chair, do not steal mine.
    d. Shelter – More of the same. If we’re sharing, help me set it up. If you want help setting yours up, help me with mine. Do not take my hammer away, if you use it, bring it right back.

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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by lemur » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:49 pm

you left out the 'sign here' part
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:58 pm

Here. Let me help you. "Get in, sit down, shut-up, and hold on". That should about cover it, yes? :mrgreen:
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:30 pm

I think there's some worthy stuff in there. After a while, you begin to sound a little anal controlling exacting. Not inherently a bad thing, but it decreases the possible pool of riders.
If you ever find someone who can do 80% of that on your first trip, try and keep that co-pilot forever.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by BoyScoutGirl » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:42 pm

This obviously would vary from person to person, but as I read this list I thought to myself "this is just the sort of person I'd want a ride from." More important than having everybody's head organized and the rules clear, though, is just making sure you've had a face-to-face meeting and you're comfortable with one another.

Also, you didn't speak to whether or not you want co-pilot to bring a GPS-capable device or not.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Elderberry » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:44 pm

Any person with common sense and good manners shouldn't need that list. Anybody that doesn't possess those traits will ignore most everything on the list (assuming they even bothered to read it) once they get in your car.

If you're going to give someone a ride, make sure it's someone you know and like.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Token » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:08 pm

How in the world you make it through Burning Man with all those expectations is just amazing.

I got 5 rules:

1. Show me your ticket.
2. Put the gas money in the gas money jar.
3. No drugs. Period. Sign the contract here.
4. Buckle your seatbelt.
5. Safety Third.

Everything else on that list sounds like a pathology.

Btw, if I was your co-pilot and you showed me that list, I'd be outa there in a millisecond.

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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by TT120 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:20 pm

Pretty long and demanding list.

I like Tokens list better. I'll ride with him and bet we have a lot more fun on the trip than you do. :D :D
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by pink » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:53 pm

I like the suggestion of watermelon as I drive. I think I'll steal that, regardless if I get a copilot or not.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:51 am

jkisha wrote:Any person with common sense and good manners shouldn't need that list.
I disagree. The rules that govern social interaction vary greatly from culture to culture, and (in this case, perhaps more pertinently) from subculture to subculture. This list isn't going to be as natural to a Russian, an Indian (Asian or American), or someone Chinese. Even within those groups there's going to be different responses. Add in class, possibly gender, age, "race"... Which is why I think a list like this could be a good thing. Lets people know upfront what the parameters are.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by maladroit » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:33 am

I'm guessing the road head is assumed and doesn't need to be explicitly added to the list, although some preferences for grip styles and teeth usage would be appropriate.

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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:28 pm

I couldn't even read all that shit. Jesus fucking Keee-rist. Just go by yourself!
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Elderberry » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:37 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
jkisha wrote:Any person with common sense and good manners shouldn't need that list.
I disagree. The rules that govern social interaction vary greatly from culture to culture, and (in this case, perhaps more pertinently) from subculture to subculture. This list isn't going to be as natural to a Russian, an Indian (Asian or American), or someone Chinese. Even within those groups there's going to be different responses. Add in class, possibly gender, age, "race"... Which is why I think a list like this could be a good thing. Lets people know upfront what the parameters are.
I wasn't really thinking that deeply when I replied. Reading his "doctrine" was just like reading about what John and I do when we drive up. We've never even discussed it, it just sort of happens. So I just assumed it was manners and trying to keep the needs of your traveling companion in mind at least as much as your own.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Savannah » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:57 pm

Most of those desires and standards aren't crazy; it's the length and the tone (the fraught, unresolved emotions of the past!) that would--as a professional roadtrip co-pilot--make me kinda wanna run screaming into the night.

Make any screed long enough and it starts getting weird.

I'm fairly good at editing for length and tone and might take a pass at it after the Burn, whether you want me to or not. :lol:
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by lemur » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:02 pm

oh yeah, you can do polls on eplaya.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Runs; With Scissors » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:54 am

Well, yes. Goodness. I think I must have been feeling bitter about many a poor passenger experience and the wishy washy passengers this year who just cannot make up their minds of whom they would like to ride with are frustrating me. Upon reread, the snark, rowdy jokes and sarcasm just don’t carry over. I did make a declaration to never again take passengers, but then it turns out that I’m a sucker when someone I know is asking, they know my passenger seat is open and I figure it would be a better way to get to know them. So… sure, why not, right? Plus, I’m pinned in that awkward stage of potential anti-environmental, non-hippy, non-sharing antisocial position if I tell them no. I’d do it, oh, I would tell them no, but, well… I have a nice streak sometimes and I am entirely too patient.

The concept of writing this was to prevent some of the strife that has happened in the past from happening again. This includes conversations like:
“I thought we were splitting the gas, why do I have to pay for the first tank / we’re almost back, why should I pay to refill it now, when you’re going to use most of the tank?”

“I don’t have a car, so can you take me to my (location #1) and then a friend’s (more difficult location #2) to get my stuff, and then there’s something that should be at the post office, and then can you take me to the (store)? What sort of (food thing) should I bring?... (insert elapsed time) …Oh, my friend is not answering, do you mind waiting for them to get off work?”

“Wow, I am so sad that I forgot my (insert useless shiny item) I knew you were going to like it, so I was going to (insert verb) it for you. But – it’s not here. I’m so sorry. I’m upset. That’s my new favorite (thing)! Please don’t be upset with me because I forgot that (irrelevant contraption.)” (x100)

“Don’t worry about the peanut shells that I’m dumping all over the floor. I’ll (insert mythical action) when we get there. Your car’s going to get dirty anyway. This is (insert name of event)”

So, I’ve tried to take out the historical frustration and cleaned it up quite a bit. Please forgive me though, I’m an engineering project manager and I write over simplified reports and procedures for a living. I’m dry... but I will take a go at fluffiness.



Ahem, ahem….



The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot.
Rule 1: We’re a team. I am the driver. You are the co-pilot.
I *can* do everything, but you should meet me in the middle, because you don’t want me to do everything. The intent of this is not a dictation of what each of us will do, but a guide of suggestions of how we will balance costs and efforts. You are welcome to contribute to any part of it you like. If you do something for the trip that it will be best if we do not both do, let me know.

This is what I am going to provide:

1. A Vehicle.
a. In good working condition, with insurance and registration up to date. It will be dirty but comfortable.
b. I will be accountable for any repairs following the event that happened due to the event as well as a thorough cleaning after the event. (anticipated cost following the Burn is approx. $200)
c. If we break down, I’ll get us somewhere safe and cover the costs of getting a hotel if necessary. I’ll bring extra water and food for this possibility.

2. I will be the primary driver. I will be sober and alert, and when I’m tired, I may let you take over or we may just look for a hotel. I will do all driving in dangerous environments like in severe weather or on mountain roads. If someone is going to wreck my car, I get to do it.

3. I will come to your place to get you.

4. I will provide a space that is 1 x 1 x 5’. If you need more space than that, let me know at least one week in advance. That’s about enough room for a sleeping bag, a dome tent, a sleeping pad and a duffel bag or two.

5. When I pick you up, I’ll be ready to go and I’ll be chomping at the bit.
a. The fuel tank is full.
b. All of my gear is ready to go.



This is what I am expecting from you:
1. Be ready to go at time of pick-up.
a. Have your food and gear ready, have it staged to be loaded into the car.
b. Be rested, sober and clean. Please do not smell like cigarettes or alcohol.
c. I will only provide 1 x 1 x 5' in my car for your gear. If you have other things, you need to get them on a truck before I come get you.
d. Do not bring any drugs into my car. This includes marijuana. This is my only hard, fast rule. You could cause me to lose my job over this, so please be considerate.
e. I need to know where all fuels are stored in my car. Please only bring fuel in new, unopened cans (Coleman Camp Fuel) and sealed containers (Gasoline). If we’re going with a caravan or a big art project, I may opt to load the fuel onto the back of a truck so we do not have to smell it and that requires advance planning.

2. Buckle your seat belt.

3. Share the costs.
Gas: The tank will be full when we leave. You will have the first fuel up and every other fill up. If the tank is low when we’re approaching your house and it’s your fill up, we’re fueling up.
a. Round Trip Estimate:
i. Black Rock City: $300 / Total
ii. Joshua Tree: $75 / Total

4. Navigate.
a. GPS navigation might not work in remote areas.
b. If it’s winter and we’re passing the Sierra Nevada, one of us had better look at Caltrans before we go.


These should be done by either / both of us:

Entertainment: These are some things I like:
a. Music – I like circus rock, I like swing and pop. I like emotional stuff. I like Survivor and Imagine Dragons and U2 and the Vitamin String Quartet and Passion Pit. I like cheesy shit I can sing to and country. I dislike metal and opera and you may end up buried in the desert if you think I will listen to some sort of techno all the way back from Burning Man.
b. Short stories on an MP3 player - I like sci-fi, ghost stories, action / adventure, classics, and romances. I like complex stories with a twist. If you bring something, please stick to short stories and podcasts. I don’t want to be wondering what happened to Joe and Suzy when I’m finally where I was going and spend hours at the event listening to the audiobook in my car, because I get hooked.
c. Read up on some current event or book and teach me about it as we drive. I like world news and I really like health / science.

Food: There are very few decent diners off the 395. Be prepared for a long stretch of no good places to stop.
a. I like fresh fruit, junior mints and fine chocolate. I like Gatorade and I like water and sprite, silver red bull and lemonade. And I like Boston crème donuts. I like my nuts roasted but please, unsalted. I like pumpkin seeds too. I dislike chips, jelly anything and cola. I’m allergic to artificial grape flavoring and seafood. The smell of either will make me nauseated, so please, no canned tuna or grape bubble gum.
b. If we’re going somewhere that involves camping in the middle of the desert, prep me by feeding me watermelon as we drive. Bring one that has been cut up.

Keep the car comfortable:
a. Dump all the trash out when we pull into a gas station.
b. Bring two small sheets for the drive after the hotel, back from Burning Man.


The final approach:
When we make it to an event, several things need to happen before we go out and play. Please understand that I will be tired and I’m ready for a break, but I’m not taking a break or going out and playing until my infrastructure is up.
1. Help me find a good site, be prepared to navigate within the event.
2. Unloading the car.
a. Your gear will be on the top, so please pull it out first thing.
b. I always appreciate help getting the hexiyurt up, and I would be happy to help you as well.

Some other guiding lessons for the road:
Road Head: As a female, I find this a fascinating goal to investigate. I must refrain and define it as a non-essential because I get very engaged during sexual activities and it is best to keep me focused on the road. While I am the only individual who gets to wreck my car, I feel that road head on the 395 would be a premature source of destruction.

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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by gaminwench » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:10 am

Runs;

I really like the Ranch House (?) in Olancha.

Not for the food 8) , for the shift in perspective. :idea:


(it's been my experience that pre-cut watermelon at the end of the burn is just nasty;
and the 395 has some really loooooooong straight stretches with great visibility; optimal for . :shock: :roll: :lol: ..)

Enjoy your adventure!
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by Elderberry » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:30 am

You need to grow a set of balls. End of story.
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by lemur » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:30 am

this all just seems really silly to me.

2 pages of stuff?

are you making a joke?

Runs; With Scissors wrote: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot.

Rule 1: We’re a team. I am the driver. You are the co-pilot.

This is what I am going to provide:

1. A Vehicle.
a. In good working condition, with insurance and registration up to date.

2. I will be the primary driver.

3. I will come to your place to get you.

4. I will provide a space that is 1 x 1 x 5’.


This is what I am expecting from you:
1. Be ready to go at time of pick-up.

d. Do not bring any drugs into my car.


3. Share the costs.

a. Dump all the trash out when we pull into a gas station.


The final approach:

a. Your gear will be on the top, so please pull it out first thing.

this is a lot better.. i cut out all of the silly demands/requests and superfluous crap ..
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Re: The Standard Doctrine for the Co-Pilot

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:34 am

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
jkisha wrote:Any person with common sense and good manners shouldn't need that list.
I disagree. The rules that govern social interaction vary greatly from culture to culture, and (in this case, perhaps more pertinently) from subculture to subculture. This list isn't going to be as natural to a Russian, an Indian (Asian or American), or someone Chinese. Even within those groups there's going to be different responses. Add in class, possibly gender, age, "race"... Which is why I think a list like this could be a good thing. Lets people know upfront what the parameters are.
I wasn't really thinking that deeply when I replied. Reading his "doctrine" was just like reading about what John and I do when we drive up. We've never even discussed it, it just sort of happens. So I just assumed it was manners and trying to keep the needs of your traveling companion in mind at least as much as your own.
My guess is that you and John have worked all this out in other fora and know each other pretty well.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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