Burner express tickets

[Kairielise]

How much do tickets on the burner express bus usually?

[BBadger]

It's called fucking google it.

[FossaFerox]

This link should prove useful.

http://bit.ly/1btK7Ve

[Kairielise]

Thank you very much!!!!

......or fuck you ....Whichever you feel better applies.

[TT120]

[BBadger]

[Kairielise]

It's cool, I get it. I'm gonna get my ass kicked to break me in, until I'm no longer a NooB and earn my place.

Or maybe you're just a giant douchecanoe who's mean to everyone. I think I'll ask Google.

[Elliot]

You are doing pretty well, understanding the snark and learning from it. There are a couple of ways you can find such information yourself. One is to search ePlaya by googling ePlaya Burner Express. (Using Google works better than the built-in search feature.)

The other is to go to the main web site and either use the search box there, or -- better -- finding stuff yourself, because you will learn so much along the way. In this case you would poke around until you find Preparation at the top of the home page, then Transportation in the column on the right, and finally Burner Express Shuttle. Go thru this exercise, and you will learn how to find pretty much anything.

[Kairielise]

I love you Elliot! Ya big sweetheart!

I believe I've read almost the entire burning man main site, however due to all the in-text links I do keep finding new pages that I hadn't found before. For example, I had read what I thought was the only page dedicated to the Burner Express. It didn't mention any ticket prices, only that all the 2013 tickets were sold out. I figured the 2014 prices hadn't been set yet, and any mention of the previous years prices were removed when the webmaster updated to the "sold out" page. Not noticing any link to further information, such as an "FAQ" page,I thought rather than waiting around for them to email me back, I'd turn to the helpful bevy of information that the eplayans have been thus far, to get a feel for the general ticket price over the past years. Instead I got an education on snarkiness. Not what I was looking for, but useful nonetheless.

I found the Burner Express FAQ page and the information I was seeking....sort of.

[TT120]

You'll do just fine around here Kairielise.

That Burner Express page has not been updated with 2014 info yet so those prices may not be accurate.

[Elliot]

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The way you are going thru the main web site, you are faaaar ahead of our average victims birgins. Keep after it!

[Elderberry]

It's cool, I get it. I'm gonna get my ass kicked to break me in, until I'm no longer a NooB and earn my place.

Or maybe you're just a giant douchecanoe who's mean to everyone. I think I'll ask Google.

LOL Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Elderberry]

So, let me see if I got this right. If I have a burning man related question, I can ask it here or I can ask it on Google?

If I use Google (a cold and impersonal search engine) for all my questions I would get answers without being insulted.

If I join eplaya, (a community of people that come together on a site run by BMORG in support of burninging man) to ask my questions I will be insulted and humiliated and may or may not get an answer.

What is wrong with this picture?

Does asking Google make a person any more radically self reliant than asking eplaya!

[FossaFerox]

Asking the question here vs asking it on Google is roughly the same amount of work for the person with the question. Heck, I would even argue that using Google is easier and you get results instantly. If you ask here, you're relying on other people and creating work for them.

More to the point, you're filling the forum with threads that are effectively "lower value" and edging out threads discussing topics or asking questions that can't be resolved via Google. Admittedly this is less of a problem this time of year when things are slow, but as things kick into high gear it can actually be damaging to have a group of people asking super simple questions and drawing people's time and attention away from topics that CAN'T be answered on Google.

In the end, the forum is really for discussion, not to get answers that are EASILY available if you do your own leg work.

Beyond even that, the spoon feeding argument is extremely valid. I love helping people who have shown that they're willing to put in some amount of effort, but I don't want to plan someone else's burn for them. To draw a bizarre yet fitting analogy, if you twist your ankle in deep playa I will carry you the three miles back to your camp on my fucking shoulders. If you ask to borrow my bike because you couldn't be bothered to bring one, you can fuck right off.

[Elderberry]

If you ask here, you're relying on other people and creating work for them.

So, that would assume that 1) people that come here are forced to answer every post asking a question; and 2) that it is easier to post snark than it is to post the answer.

More to the point, you're filling the forum with threads that are effectively "lower value" and edging out threads discussing topics or asking questions that can't be resolved via Google. ... In the end, the forum is really for discussion, not to get answers that are EASILY available if you do your own leg work.

LOL "lower value" Hahahahahahahaha Obviously you haven't read the majority of posts made on eplaya by the regulars, especially off season.

Beyond even that, the spoon feeding argument is extremely valid.

You have the choice to help or not. Still doesn't excuse being rude. Better to say nothing than to offend, and allow those more benevolent to provide an answer.

I've noticed on some of your threads you have done some spoon feeding of information as well. So, I guess it really depends on what you consider spoon feeding, or possibly who is asking the question to begin with. (Based on my definition of spoon feeding.)

[GreyCoyote]

JK: You sang it true. Major props to you.

[FossaFerox]

So, that would assume that 1) people that come here are forced to answer every post asking a question; and 2) that it is easier to post snark than it is to post the answer.

We're not forced, no, but active sections and threads do draw the eye. And while posting snark is no easier than posting an answer, you'll notice that I did both while encouraging them to do their own legwork in the future. Please keep in mind that I did send them to the information they were looking for, just in a snarky way. You seem more upset by my response than they were.

LOL "lower value" Hahahahahahahaha Obviously you haven't read the majority of posts made on eplaya by the regulars, especially off season.

Even the off-topic threads that foster a sense of connection and community are more significant than someone asking for basic information that literally shows up as the top Google result. This is, after all, a forum not a FAQ. It's about community not about giving out easy answers.

You have the choice to help or not. Still doesn't excuse being rude. Better to say nothing than to offend, and allow those more benevolent to provide an answer.

I respectfully disagree. How we conduct ourselves and the behaviors we accept or encourage will shape the community down the line. Rudeness isn't the end of the world. I'd rather risk offending someone with a snarky (yet helpful) joke than encourage people to clutter the forums with impersonal, empty questions.

I've noticed on some of your threads you have done some spoon feeding of information as well. So, I guess it really depends on what you consider spoon feeding, or possibly who is asking the question to begin with. (Based on my definition of spoon feeding.)

I'll gladly throw out additional info for anyone who I feel has made an effort. If I see someone who legitimately needs help I will go to the ends of the earth for them. The thing is, I don't like being taken advantage of. Over the years I've learned to be wary of people who don't need help, but are just not willing to put in the basic effort to help themselves in the hopes that someone will do it for them. While I'm not accusing the OP of that, that kind of request for overly basic, highly searchable information is going in that direction, so yes, I was snarky.

[Ratty]

JK, You Rock.

FF, If it's too daunting a task, go outside and work in the garden. We'll answer the rhetorical and silly questions for you. Once the new eplayans get their 'legs' you can knock em down.

[Kairielise]

Beyond even that, the spoon feeding argument is extremely valid. I love helping people who have shown that they're willing to put in some amount of effort, but I don't want to plan someone else's burn for them. To draw a bizarre yet fitting analogy, if you twist your ankle in deep playa I will carry you the three miles back to your camp on my fucking shoulders. If you ask to borrow my bike because you couldn't be bothered to bring one, you can fuck right off.

Hold the phone. I have three excel spreadsheets running three different possible plans to get to BM. I've spent hours pricing out every piece of equipment I may need. I even came up with the box truck camping idea on my own before I even discovered eplaya. The Burner Express idea is a contingency plan just in case the box truck plan falls through. You don't know Jack about me. I've spent 14 years working with tourists. I know how stupid it is to show up at a THEME PARK without a rational plan and thorough research, let alone the most remote harsh desert in the continental US. I've asked a FEW lousy questions on here, because I value the advice I can get from those who've burned before. I didn't realize it would be so much work for someone who rode that bus a few short months ago to drop the price they paid in a reply box. I didn't ask for a market analysis. If you didn't ride the bus, don't answer, simple as that. And yes I know the price will be different in 2014, I just wanted a ballpark.

It seems one is a sparklepony until proven otherwise in your eyes.

[Ratty]

Kairielise, You rock too!

[BBadger]

The thing with this particular case is that it literally is one Google search away. This is not some topic with particular nuances or something that needs to be explained, it's just a number in a FAQ on the website for the service itself. It is literally in the first link you see when you type in the topic as the search query. Plus, with questions like these, what is exactly the point of asking a question like that in here? Unless someone has that value memorized, the number will be found using the same process the questioning party should have gone through in the first place.

You have the choice to help or not. Still doesn't excuse being rude. Better to say nothing than to offend, and allow those more benevolent to provide an answer.

Puh-leeze. This isn't a Bambi movie. We're not required, obligated, or even encouraged to tip-toe around peoples' sensibilities. This isn't "rudeness" just to offend, or for laughs for that matter.

The "rudeness" is a purposely created negative incentive meant to discourage the asking of stupid questions. Stupid questions, as in those that should not be asked because they're out of laziness or because they're in appropriate at that expertise level (e.g. don't go asking about the basics you should already know in an advance course). Maybe next time the person will stop and think "shucks, I got called out on my laziness and I didn't like that, next time I'll actually see if I can find the result myself." If not, expect to be deservedly derided again. It seems to already be working too.

[Elliot]

.
Children, children! Play nice!

[Eric]

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Children, children! Play nice!

So far this has actually been one of the politest discussions about snark I've seen, even with the snark used. There are always going to disagreements about it, but the reasons laid out explain the two sides pretty damn clearly. And that's with my moderator hat on.

[theCryptofishist]

The thing with this particular case is that it literally is one Google search away. This is not some topic with particular nuances or something that needs to be explained, it's just a number in a FAQ on the website for the service itself. It is literally in the first link you see when you type in the topic as the search query. Plus, with questions like these, what is exactly the point of asking a question like that in here? Unless someone has that value memorized, the number will be found using the same process the questioning party should have gone through in the first place.

Depending on your values, of course, you could promote the google it yourself approach as greener--one step to the answer, instead of two.

And, then you don't have this thread cropping up...

[Elderberry]

The "rudeness" is a purposely created negative incentive meant to discourage the asking of stupid questions. Stupid questions, as in those that should not be asked because they're out of laziness or because they're in appropriate at that expertise level (e.g. don't go asking about the basics you should already know in an advance course). Maybe next time the person will stop and think "shucks, I got called out on my laziness and I didn't like that, next time I'll actually see if I can find the result myself." If not, expect to be deservedly derided again. It seems to already be working too.

You are deluding yourself. Would you want your mother to read what you wrote above? Purposeful rudeness? As a training tool? Are you kidding me. Maybe you should be answering questions on the ASPCA forum. At least there your argument might have more validity, assuming you don't get booted off for being cruel to the animals.

People signing onto eplaya deserve better.

[Elderberry]

Even the off-topic threads that foster a sense of connection and community are more significant than someone asking for basic information that literally shows up as the top Google result. This is, after all, a forum not a FAQ. It's about community not about giving out easy answers.

I think that being polite to new members of the forum, even when they ask questions that you personally feel are too stupid to deserve a helpful answer, will foster a sense of connection and community far better than being rude and off putting to new members; which will only serve to drive them away-- not from the event, but from eplaya. So, you would have accomplished exactly nothing but hurt feelings and a terrible impression of burners and eplaya.

This is about community, and community to me means giving out answers to easy questions if they are asked by a member of that community. Often giving answers to easy questions helps encourage people to seek out answers to the more difficult questions on their own, rather than discouraging them completely.

I think that when an eplayan feels compelled to give a snarky answer to a new member, it should be considered an indication that it might be time to take a break from eplaya.

[FossaFerox]

Often giving answers to easy questions helps encourage people to seek out answers to the more difficult questions on their own.

I'm sorry but I have NEVER known that to be the case.

And if LMGTFY is too much snark for someone to the point where it hurts their feelings so badly that they leave and never come back, all we did is save them time. Imagine their breakdown the first time Simon asks to see their tits?

More to the point, we didn't scare them off. Question asked. Snarky but helpful answer given. Friendly snark returned. This was a positive and finished thread before you decided to don your white armor and mount your mighty steed.

Thank you very much!!!!

......or fuck you ....Whichever you feel better applies.

Clearly I wounded them to their very core. I laughed and smiled at their response. Everything was fine. They don't need you defending them.

[Elderberry]

Justify and make all of the excuses you want to make. The fact still remains. Bullying is bullying and you are all being eplaya bullies.

Here, this will teach you to ask any more dumb questions. Take that!
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/11/16/pa ... d-his-neck

[goathead]

JK, You Rock.

FF, If it's too daunting a task, go outside and work in the garden. We'll answer the rhetorical and silly questions for you. Once the new eplayans get their 'legs' you can knock em down.

Why do they need legs?

[GreyCoyote]

Dear Noob:

Of course we insult you and call you an idiot for asking a perfectly legit question. You should have known that an external search engine is REQUIRED to find your answer. This is basic stuff. Duh. Google it. Let me help:

Google query: "How Do I Search Eplaya".
Answer: http://eplaya.burningman.org/faq.php
Text:
How can I search a forum or forums?
Enter a search term in the search box located on the index, forum or topic pages. Advanced search can be accessed by clicking the “Advance Search” link which is available on all pages on the forum. How to access the search may depend on the style used.

(Irony. You're soaking in it).

So there you have it. Don't use the search box (everybody knows that. duh). Instead use Google to find your answer. Which in this case is a Official Burning Man FAQ telling you to use the Search box.

Thank you for playing. See you in the dust.

(Trilo: This isn't a swipe at you. Nobody expects you to rewrite the search engine packaged with the board).