gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:34 am

i think i read it is 20 gal max to be used in red cans for any vehicle unless you go to 55 gal drums which i cannot carry.

so 4 5 gal cans is the max extra gas i could store on my rv and where is the best place to store it, any ideas. roof pod maybe.

must be metal or is plastic ok? and trilo thanks for all your help with the info. best regards

Unit.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:59 am

Under the RV in the shade.

What do you need all that fuel for?

Fill up in Fernley and bring a siphon hose.

Post by **trilobyte** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:30 pm

I'm giving this a nudge over to the Transportation board, since that's a better fit. The share resources board is mostly for gifting and posts about ride/rv-shares.

+1 to what FIGJAM said. Get a small pond liner from your local home/garden joint or online purveyor to put under your gas cans to prevent drips/spills from hitting the playa, they're made of fuel-resistant materials (and usually cost a lot less than fuel resistant tarps).

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:13 pm

Having that pool for spill containment greatly reduces your chance of a fine, or of attracting negative attention.

Not sure where your need for a lot fuel is, but you can take a look at:
eplaya thread "Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules" viewtopic.php?f=278&t=64554

Technically, fuel must be stored according to the rules in the Fire Safety Agreement: Fuel And Hazardous Materials Storage http://www.burningman.com/installations ... orage.html, which specifically states:
All participants using combustible fuels in an art installation (or for other purposes) at Burning Man must educate themselves about and comply with appropriate practices for storing and handling these materials.

Note that part of the requirements is that fuel spills of more than 1 gallon are to be reported to Black Rock Rangers or Emergency Services. Reports should include specific location and contact person at that location. In addition to a fire risk, I've heard of an environmental cleanup crew that will respond to cleanup to limit damage to the playa. Do not delay; you could be fined by the BLM, or even evicted from BRC.

That said, I've been informed that if we have under 20 gallons (over 20 gallons is the trigger for requiring Secondary Containment within the rules), we would likely be left alone from the letter of the rules – provided our fuel is stored safely and in approved-for-fuel containers. With the strong caution that BLM WILL issue tickets to those found spilling or that they consider are storing fuel improperly.

If you want confirmation on the requirements for your specific fuel situation, at the time of this writing (2012) there are two email addresses published: firesafety (at) burningman (dot) com and fuel (at) burningman (dot) com. I'm assured they want to hear from you before you get to the playa.

Cautions about pouring fuel into a running or hot generator are particularly relevant on-playa as the fuel can be hot too and the generator will be running hotter than usual (and more so if it's running within a baffle-box). Same for dry & windy conditions increasing static discharge which can ignite fuel. What you got away with elsewhere may not work on-playa; check your generator's instructions and take care.

Note: info is based on the rules for prior years. Check the official links, or use those email addresses.

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:19 pm

thank you - my reason for the exrta design for time for fuel is this:

fuel for the 160 mile plus 60 trip in and out to the fuel station..

If you figure in a long exit line and the 160 mile station is out of gas (happened )you better have enough..

this statement makes me feel like when i get there i use this:

http://www.bunnings.com.au/syphon-hose- ... 0_p3110056

$10, put it in the rv as soon as i get there to make sure i have an extra 40 miles or time in line to stay away from lines at a station. Logical?

THis way the cans will be empty stored. Thank you every one.

i am very interested in not causing any offense of any kind including sound and safety. All your ideas are a great help.

I plan to live in this rv anyway a lot and surf malibu for the winter and this allows me to get use to the practice of doing so. First moon shot.

put gray water or black water in the cans when i empty them. My main interest is the maximum 5 gallon cans i can take on the playa in my 1977 palm beach gmc rv?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:21 pm

We fill up in Fernley before driving the last 90 miles to the playa.

My niece drives her van all week at the burn. (disabled)

Drive back to Fernley to fill up at the end of the week and still had half a tank left.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:18 pm

We need more self reliant participants doing their research ahead of time. Good for you!

BM is obviously a fuel festival. The concern is an uncontrolled wind-driven fire in the camping areas of the city. It probably will happen someday and it will be the end of the FITD to say nothing of the human cost. If you can minimize your stored fuel you are reducing the risk.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:45 pm

whatever you do, do not overload that rv. Those are ancient Oldsmobile 455 car engines and transmissions designed for the olds toronado front wheel drive cars. They may be rated at 400 hp but in a car you only use that for 10 seconds then throttle back to cruise at about 50hp. Fully overloaded rv pulling up Donner Pass at full throttle is extremely hard on those engines. They were only produced for 8 years and blocks are hard to find if you toast one. No other engine fits the transmission.

Watch where you store gasoline so that is not heated by exhaust, or fumes build up in a storage compartment

Drive safe.

edit to add: some 77-78 motorhomes used Oldsmobile 403 with Siamese cylinder walls with no coolant flow between them. guaranteed overheating issues

BigInSeattle · Post by **BigInSeattle** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:52 pm

I'm an newb here too with an RV and this is what I was thinking.

2 of these http://www.discountramps.com/metal-gas-can.htm

1 of these for the bikes + fuel http://www.discountramps.com/hitch-carg ... e-rack.htm

I don't think I will necessarily need the extra fuel but it would nice to have an extra 10 gallons just in case we go mental with the generator.

Or maybe go old school Jerry Can with a couple of these http://www.4wd.com/Jerry-Gas-Can-Holder ... fgodsYUARQ

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:30 am

expresso dude and all thank you for the help. it is a rebuilt engine and trans, very well taken care of the gmc.

I just want to stay our of gas lines and make sure using the line to get in and out is not going to burn all the gas out to get in trouble.

an extra 20 gallons should make it easy i get 8 to 10 miles a gallon. the generator is .5 gal per hour. that would be 40 hours os that if needed.

i would need to watch the sound not to disturb anyone of course. but i learned a lot from all of you thanks, very best regards.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:46 am

part of the reason I caution so much about that particular vehicle, I have a burner buddy that bought one of those, had the engine rebuilt, but did not make it over Donner Pass before it failed.

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:06 pm

i agree, i am a wizard gmc owner - it is a very fragile engine to rebuild, it has 60,000 miles on it. the break in period is the most dangerous and

if only parts are done new they blow more. I love the old doll and it is so much fun to own it. Thank you so much, if your friend lives up by the burn

i would like to know where he got his worked on in case i need to on the way. i still am not sure the maximum amount of gas that you can take in red cans.

it is 20 gallons i suppose. is there a limit on lpg gas that you can have? thanks best regards.

dragonpilot · Post by **dragonpilot** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:42 pm

I come in from Cedarville, CA...about 110 miles from the playa Gate...in a 31 foot Class C, that gets about 8-10 mpg. I have always carried 3 5-gallon plastic jerry cans that I filled in Cedarville. That has always been plenty to get me thru the long waits in line, run the generator as much as I wanted, and get me back to Cedarville. I secure the cans to the rear bumper of the rig...and I mean SECURE, as in SECURELY! When I get to my playa camp, I pour the fuel into the tank ASAP...no full fuel cans sitting around.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:21 pm

Remember that during peak hours, namely Monday and Sunday, the gate "pulses" the vehicle line, meaning that the gate permits only one large group of vehicles to move through the gate at a time, while the remainder to kept back. Then after that block has been completed the line moves forward in a "pulse." This saves a lot of gas, as you can turn off your engines between each pulse -- which are occur once every 15 minutes to an hour.

You can also leave on "off" times to not have to wait much at all. Sunday morning is a great time to leave if you don't have other obligations like watching the temple burn.

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Tue May 20, 2014 12:32 am

If i drive from L.A. which route is the flat route to save my engine from climbing hills and blowing up as well as save gas?

high minded question?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue May 20, 2014 5:15 am

I don't really like the idea of storing fuel in cans under the RV. There's a possible worst case scenario of burning the thing up in grand fashion. Obviously some of you are familiar with the front wheel drive '73-'78 GMC motorhome but for those who aren't, these sit pretty low and I'm not sure a 5 gallon gas can will sit under one.
I keep my fuel under a shade but I don't put it under my rig. Who knows what the fuck might start a fire at Burning Man.
I made it to BM 2000 from Seattle in a Chevy pickup with a camper & trailer running an Olds 403. I barely had enough power to climb the hills in and out of Black Rock Desert, as in foot-on-floor doing walking speed, but it held together.
Next year I put in a 455 Olds and if you ever rebuild your engine - don't! Replace it with a 455! GMC only put those weak small-block 403s in the last couple years because they weren't making 455s anymore. If you look at the windowed out main bearing webs of a 403 you'll wonder how the crank ever stayed in!

Token · Post by **Token** » Tue May 20, 2014 7:04 am

What the cap'n said.

Never ever store any fuel under your stinking bed. Ever!

Put it in a bin or a mortar mixing tray 20' away from your bed, cover it with something for shade, place orange cones and fuel sign, and have a big fire extinguisher right next to your RV, not next to the fuel.

fernley1 · Post by **fernley1** » Tue May 20, 2014 7:58 am

When offroad racing on BLM land here in northern Nevada, we had to have containment in case of fuel spills.
We would put our fuel cans in to a cheap plastic kiddie pools.
Worked good.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue May 20, 2014 9:06 am

And the kids get really clean that way too!!

2WheelGuy · Post by **2WheelGuy** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:06 am

I use a Rotopax and mount it on the ladder of my truck camper

Available on web or many dealers in US

Also the mount can be adapted to fit in vertical or horizontal position on motorcycles

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:16 am

I would have left it alone but since so much detail came up about the GMC motorhome with the Olds transaxle..
I must take issue with the statement that no other engine will fit. That transaxle has a standard B-O-P pattern and any Buick, Olds, Pontiac, or Cadillac V8 will bolt up. The factory put Cadillac 500s on that transaxle in the Eldorados.
You just have to get the right oil pan to clear the axle shaft.

Chevys will go right on it too, with a simple adapter to relocate the top two bolt holes. That's how I put a 455 Olds and then a 500 Cadillac in my old Chevy dually that went to BM several times weighing 22,000 pounds, twice the weight of a GMC Palm Beach. Those engines are plenty stout, it's all about the cooling system.

Your biggest concern in an automatic-transmission heavy vehicle is overheating the trans or engine going over the hills. Regardless of what it looks like, take the radiator out and go to a good radiator shop and tell them you need it gone through to be as good as it gets. You can't tell by looking at the outside of it how well it is flowing water. The tiny tubes inside get clogged up and to really make sure it's right it has to come apart. Add an electric fan or two. Sometimes on the uphill climbs to BRC you aren't going fast enough to have enough airflow, right when you are making the most heat.
Add a good aftermarket cooler to the transmission.
This stuff is important if you want to minimize your chance of being on the side of the road, missing Burning Man.

I could bore everyone to tears with other important things to do on an old rig going to BM but those are Number One.
Tires, worst case you can fix a flat... pretty much anything else you can fix somehow. If you cook your motor or trans you're screwed. I've done all this stuff. In 2008 I had such a failure (even with new parts!!) and if I hadn't had a spare truck & camper back home I'd have missed the whole event. (Ok that's extreme, but hey, it turned out to save the day.)

2WheelGuy · Post by **2WheelGuy** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:16 pm

I've had great success using Tank Renu company to rehab my radiators and fuel tanks

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:31 pm

capt. thanx for the update on the gmc/olds transaxle. My info was dated from '70s gm training on that transaxle. Corporate probably didn't want to spell out all the possible work arounds. They ain't gonna say you can put a cad motor in your olds.! or that you can put a small block 327/350/400 in a 1966 Corvair!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:47 pm

A GMC Palm Beach holds the title of World's Fastest Motorhome (although a Class B Sprinter conversion is claiming that title now even though it's not a real Motorhome), and it has a big-block Chevy on it's Toronado transaxle.
I don't see why a lot more people don't put Chevys in these things. It's not that hard. They are cool as hell and people spend a lot of money on them. There are even companies in business restoring and refitting them. The Toro transaxle is the weak link but if you don't abuse it they work. I'd love to have one but I have a 10,000 pound trailer to pull, so I gotta stick with the GMC dually/camper setup.

unitivity · Post by **unitivity** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:39 am

from L.A. area do i have to go over cannibal pass that high, donner. what is the flat way to go, this would help a lot on the heating problem.

destiny calls and i can't hear it. best regards. did you hear that? I thought i heard someting, a putty cat.

dragonpilot · Post by **dragonpilot** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:19 pm

I had the honor of riding to a KISS/Def Leppard concert last week in a 1976 GMC RV with the owner and 5 others. That rig got huge amounts of attention in the parking lot before and after. The exterior is still kinda rough, but everything else works just fine.

kowtow · Post by **kowtow** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:57 pm

unitivity wrote:i think i read it is 20 gal max to be used in red cans for any vehicle unless you go to 55 gal drums which i cannot carry.
so 4 5 gal cans is the max extra gas i could store on my rv and where is the best place to store it, any ideas. roof pod maybe.
must be metal or is plastic ok? and trilo thanks for all your help with the info. best regards
Unit.

You can carry more than 20 gallons max in red cans with the caveat you need SECONDARY CONTAINMENT. Per the link: http://www.burningman.com/installations ... orage.html

"Collections of small tanks or containers, in total quantities exceeding 20 gallons, also need secondary containment. For collections of small fuel cans, this can be as simple a fuel-resistant tarp with a raised frame placed beneath to create a containment area.

Secondary Containment. A secondary containment device or structure capable of holding 110% of all stored fuel inside the containment device is required. Fuel containment example."

I'm carrying 30 gallons of extra gasoline (in 5 gallon containers). That means I need secondary containment that holds a minimum 33 gallons, so I bought 2 Ultra-Tech 18 gallon containment trays. 3 gas cans per tray and bam!!! "Bob's your uncle!"

Don't forget the overlooked safety requirement:
"Safety and Security. At least one hand held portable extinguisher with a 40-B rating is required for any fuel storage area per 55 gallon fuel quantity. Extinguishers rated as ABC, AB, or B will have a separate value for the B rating, this number should be at least 40; which indicates the square footage of a class-B fire it is designed to be used on. The fire extinguisher must be placed 8′ – 10′ from the fuel storage area and be easily visible. Note: Proper signage of “NO SMOKING-FLAMMABLE” shall be visible from all 4 directions. Tanks and barrels should be secured to prevent tampering."

Not to advertise for Costco, but for $35 I got rechargeable 40-B rated extinguisher.

tommythefool · Post by **tommythefool** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:01 pm

Had an Olds 403 in a 77 Revcon chassis, Dana transaxle. Oversized radiator, tranny and oil cooler. My weak link? The starter. Imagine crawling underneath that beast in a parking lot in SLC and changing it. Not fun.

It made the trip 2x from Indy to BRC without another problem at 12-14mpg, all 26'. I wish I still had it. This year: an older Chevy with a 400/400.

Yes, I changed the oil and fluids. Yes I made sure the wheelbearings were re-greased. Yes I didn't push it over 65mph. And yes, it was a super-treat to ride in. The 403 is a nice block if indeed you DO cool everything.

TTF

mooserider · Post by **mooserider** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:00 pm

I presume yellow cans are OK? I drive a diesel motor home, and it appears the fuel cans labelled for diesel are yellow instead of red.

Since I'm taking the moose in for routine maintenance and state inspection in the next few weeks, I'll ask them specifically to check the radiator and transmission cooler.

Any really big rig drivers with advice for the high passes (besides the truck-driving school advice I already know about pre-downshifting for the downgrades to match the upgrades)? The RV I'm driving has a 600HP Cummins diesel and Allison automatic on a Freightliner chassis. I'm hoping that with that kind of big chassis, it will handle the big upgrades, but I've already noticed it has sub-desirable performance on uphill grades (as in right-lane hazard flashers slow). The jake brakes don't seem to make a difference; do they really do anything with an automatic?

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:38 pm

Please do not transport gasoline inside your RV living area. Every year I respond to incidents of people passing out from fumes, or car wrecks with fuel inside that has gotten everywhere. Sometimes it burns, most times were lucky. If your not using your trailer hitch build or get a platform for it. Under house storage is made for this sort of stuff.

Onplaya put it in a basin or a kiddie pool - something to catch it. Be careful opening your ans during the day as well - gas can spray everywhere.

Game on.

gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.

Re: gas on rv - storage and amount extra is it 20 gal. max.