RV Rental

[Styliko]

Hello Burners

I have a few questions about hiring an RV for the first time. I am travelling from the UK.

When RV rental companies quote for "deposit" and sometimes the additional "Burning Man surcharge", are these costs actually taken from your credit card account before the rental begins and then reimbursed upon a satisfactory return? Or are these charges simply pre-authorised (to confirm you have the necessary funds) and are then only charged to your credit card account on the actual day you return the RV should there be any damage?

The reason I ask, is because I know for sure I will be returning the RV in an immaculate condition; as good, if not better than they will be handing it over to me. I am fastidious in keeping things sparkling clean and well cared for. So barring any road traffic accidents, any RV rental company I choose to use will have absolutely no valid cause to retain my deposit.

However, I have learned through bitter experience never to entrust another person to keep hold of a sum of my money; be it a loan, a deposit, whatever. Subconsciously they will instantly think of it as their own money and will then try every trick in the book to refuse to return it to its rightful owner. I would kick myself if I were to get caught out like this again.

I am a diligently honest person. I treat other people in the way I would expect to be treated myself. Sadly, most others do not reciprocate. The majority of humankind do not live by this mantra; especially where cash is concerned.

So, the crux of my question is, could I cancel my credit card as lost / stolen on the day before I return the RV? Thereby protecting my finances from any nefarious behaviour from the RV rental company.

It is worth noting, I would gladly pay for any damage to the vehicle in the highly unlikely event that this should occur. This is not any kind of devious plan to screw anyone over. It is an attempt to protect myself from the unscrupulous machinations of rogue RV rental businesses.

Thank you

[GreyCoyote]

I am a diligently honest person. I treat other people in the way I would expect to be treated myself.

[-snip-]

So, the crux of my question is, could I cancel my credit card as lost / stolen on the day before I return the RV? Thereby protecting my finances from any nefarious behaviour from the RV rental company.

A diligently honest person would recognize that all major credit card companies have dispute resolution departments who are empowered to deal with this sort of thing.

(shaking head sadly)

[chuckularone]

Actually, if they have prenoted the account prior to the "loss" of the card, they will still be able to process the charge. At least that's the way it works with Visa/MC/Amex in the states. You being international, there might be different rules.

[EspressoDude]

here you are claiming to a scrupulously honest, fastidious person; and yet you are proposing a totally dishonest act.

SHAME ON YOU.

The rv company is protecting their $40,000 to $75,000 investment and you are worried about $300 to $500

I would not trust you either.

[Canoe]

> When RV rental companies quote for "deposit" and sometimes the additional "Burning Man surcharge",

There can be an exaggerated "cleaning fee" for cleaning up after Burning Man, even if returned clean. With some, knowing how often they get poorly cleaned RVs (sometimes trashed) returned from Burning Man, and how difficult/costly it can be to clean one from the playa, their cleaning fee deposit is raised accordingly. In 2010 I returned mine and got the deposit back. YRMV

> are these costs actually taken from your credit card account before the rental begins and then reimbursed upon a satisfactory return? Or are these charges simply pre-authorised (to confirm you have the necessary funds) and are then only charged to your credit card account on the actual day you return the RV should there be any damage?

Depends on the rental company.

> I know for sure I will be returning the RV in an immaculate condition; as good, if not better than they will be handing it over to me. I am fastidious in keeping things sparkling clean and well cared for. So barring any road traffic accidents, any RV rental company I choose to use will have absolutely no valid cause to retain my deposit.

I admire your enthusiasm, but you need to go read the Survival Guide and the preparation materials (linked to in my signature). And then the various RV threads on eplaya, on preventing damage, keeping clean on the playa and how to clean it afterwards. Note that the winds are regularly 25 mph, often 45 mph and can be 75 mph or above, with a record of 110 mph. And even during low winds, there can be whirlwinds or micro-bursts with very high very localized winds (as in, the camp three down is utterly decimated while you sat there and got some dust in your drink).

> could I cancel my credit card as lost / stolen on the day before I return the RV, hereby protecting my finances from any nefarious behaviour from the RV rental company.

You could, but it would only delay, not prevent. You've already preauthorized the charge - by contract - through your card, to your account.

> It is worth noting, I would gladly pay for any damage to the vehicle in the highly unlikely event that this should occur.

There is insurance, with a deductible. At least there had better be.
But, your rental RV can be hit by wind blown debris from poorly secured camps. You're technically "off road", so will the insurance apply...

> It is an attempt to protect myself from the unscrupulous machinations of rogue RV rental businesses.

Good luck with that.
Document with photos/video, the condition you received it in (inside and out) and just before you return it. Even if damaged while you had it, to show the specific damage and its degree.
If you end up with unscrupulous, don't be surprised if you're stuck paying up front and then have to resort to a lawyer or the courts.

Will they "determine" that your taking it to Burning Man "broke" the engine, generator or air conditioning and charge you $4,000 to "fix" it. These, and other, problems have occurred when renting from: private individuals, brokers, small rental companies, large rental companies. Very difficult to know who has been reliable in the past, and will they continue to be so in the future. Although the bad ones usually stay bad. Every year we see posts of previously reliable sources going bad.

You do what due diligence you can, then you decide if, where and with who you take your chances.

[Styliko]

I think some people replying here have misinterpreted my sentiments. As evidenced by replies such as "shaking head sadly", "proposing a totally dishonest act", "SHAME ON YOU" and "I would not trust you either". Not only are these comments misinformed, they are also deeply hurtful.

The reason I asked the question in my original post was because I have been thoroughly researching the entire Burning Man & RV situation. In doing so, I have read countless anecdotes from previous Burners of them returning RVs in the same condition they were originally picked up, only to be charged exorbitant fees for preexisting damage they failed to spot on collection. Let's face it, it would take in excess of 5 hours to properly assess & document every working component / aesthetic of one of these RVs.
What person would take it upon themselves to strip out engine parts to inspect them (I'm thinking air filters, air mass meters, air-con filters, in fact any part that could become damaged by the dusty environment of BRC). People renting RVs just want to get away on their journeys. Who would actually spend that much time and effort? - and I'm sure most rental companies know this. Some of the less trustworthy companies will undoubtedly exploit this fact for their own gain.

Coming from the UK, for me to have to take legal action to rectify any company's malpractice would be very difficult. Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to face hassle and potential added costs anyway. I would rather avoid getting myself into this quandary in the fist place.

If, as suggested above, it was only a case of $300 to $500 dollars, then I wouldn't have a problem with that. Yet all the RV companies I am seeing online are quoting a deposit of $1,000 with an additional $700 Burning Man surcharge.

Perhaps the unjust loss of $1,700 merely represents insignificant pocket change to many of you reading this. To me, it is a meaningful sum that I can ill afford to lose.

I have waited 8 long years to be able to attend Burning Man. I am traveling six thousand miles to get there, and yet the largest cost is the RV rental. The headline rental charges appear fair value to me, it's just that I fear being swindled by the small print in the contracts. How else can I guard myself against this mischief other than cancelling my credit card towards the end of the rental?.... Although I'm not sure the banking procedures would make that a viable option anyway.

It is stories like the following that have sparked my desire for extreme diligence before booking an RV. Now, admittedly we only have his side of the story here, but what if he is telling the truth? >>>>

viewtopic.php?t=26301
His is not the only tale of Burners being gouged. The internet is inundated with many, many similar sad stories.

And (scroll down to BM reviewers) >>>>
http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/moturis-inc-san-leandro

The same glowing / terrible reviews occur with nearly all the companies I have researched.

This is why I am wary of falling foul of this malpractice.

I have no way of differentiating the honest RV companies from the rogues. Some Burners will give a company the thumbs up, while others will issue warnings to avoid the very same company like the plague. Who to believe?

I came here searching for friendly advice. Instead, from some posters, all I got was insults. All I am attempting to do is avoid being unfairly ripped off. I was hoping this community could offer some useful suggestions.

I do hope this sort of negativity is absent out on The Playa; instead to be replaced with open-minded tolerance.

Peace, love, life....

[Jackass]

Get a tent and a rental car....Done.

Less whining, more sack. You sound as though you'd be a real PITA to rent to anyhow

[GreyCoyote]

If the entire eplaya crew has misinterpreted your writings, then I suggest the issue may not lie with us.

I think your question has been basically answered, so there isn't any need to dwell on this much further. If your intentions are honorable, you will not take the proposed path (not that it would have worked anyway). If your intentions are not honorable, then you're going to find a way to stack the deck in your favor and make a mess of things in the process. Burn as you will. It matters not to me

All I can suggest is this: Report back to us after your burn. Add your voice to those who graded their rental companies. Tell your story. We will thank you for that.

Remember that Burning Man carries NO "risk-free / money-back" guarantee. If you want to burn, and you choose to burn with an RV as your home base, then you're going to have to stick your toe into the financial and legal waters and either sink or swim. Yes, there are sharks in those waters. Get over it. If you're too timid to take that risk, then there are other options (including tents, monkey huts, etc) or joining a camp where you can negotiate someone local to bring something for you. And, there is the Final Option: don't go.

Final point: read the stickie about Snark. If you are prone to shooting the messenger because you feel you have been "misunderstood", then I doubt you will find your maximum enjoyment at BM. Alternative activities (museums, fishing, and watching reality TV) may be more appropriate.

BTW, if you can read this post, laugh a bit, and then go "Fuck yer day, GreyCoyote!", then you're Getting It. Welcome home, ring the bell, and speak my name at the base of The Man.

[theCryptofishist]

To offer up an attempt to understand why companies gouge and forbid going to the event:
*An rv is an expensive piece of equipment, with many possible failures (generator, fridge, toilet)...
*An rv has to make money in order to pay for itself and things like saleries (sales staff, computer people, mechanics), parts, real estate
*An rv cannot make money if it's too dirty or dusty or it's been trashed by idiots or whatever
*The labor day weekend is a big money maker, with customers all over the country who would love to be driving one.

So, respect that the companies have to make a living. Some of the "gouging" may be (and i have not confirmed this) simply letting the price go so high that we wont rent, and they wont have had to deny us.

It seems to come down to too many assholes (and the event is full of assholes, don't get all starry-eyed about how wondeful and enlightened the participants are), not returning the rvs in good condition, meaning the money made doesn't make up for the loss. And be polite,
oh fuck, you've read all this...
(I must learn to pay attention...)