Electric tricycle motor

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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bm_cricket
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:36 am

And it has a rear differential!
IMG_20140608_070313803.jpg
Someone loved this machine.
IMG_20140315_134529009.jpg
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by unjonharley » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:38 am

bm_cricket wrote:And it has a rear differential!
IMG_20140608_070313803.jpg
Someone loved this machine.
IMG_20140315_134529009.jpg
OH! YA!
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:41 am

unjonharley wrote:
bm_cricket wrote:And it has a rear differential!
IMG_20140608_070313803.jpg
Someone loved this machine.
IMG_20140315_134529009.jpg
OH! YA!

I know, I know.... Build your burn, don't buy it. But this thing practically threw itself at me... and for this price I had to... And I've got a little bit of engineering left to do before it's ready for the playa. Also, it was clearly made by an artist who didn't know quite as much about engineering as they needed to. The machine is a great frame but I don't think the drive train saw much action. At least not with that gas powered scooter motor...
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:07 am

bm_cricket wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:I tried it with 12v and 24v with the 350 watt model.

Just didn't have the torque to get started or maintain a decent speed.
$40 and I aquired a complete wheel chair with two motors, a charger, a controller, and 1.5 working batteries. It's a 24v system and after charging it I made the motors spin for a while. I'll track down some replacement batteries and make a fitting for the gear. And a fitting to mount the motors. Weee! I know what I'm doing tomorrow!
[tangent]This frustrates me so much. The economics of wheelchairs is so skewed... Repair is done by having your doctor fill out a "prescription" and having your insurance company involved. I really don't know what I'm trying to say here, so, Good deal, cricket![/tangent]
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Joeln » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:18 am

Nice ride Cricket!
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:20 am

theCryptofishist wrote: [tangent]This frustrates me so much. The economics of wheelchairs is so skewed... Repair is done by having your doctor fill out a "prescription" and having your insurance company involved. I really don't know what I'm trying to say here, so, Good deal, cricket![/tangent]
I think I appreciate your frustration. I purchased this from a good will store and I actually tested that it was broken before I got it. I was able to diagnose an apparent bad cell in one of the batteries. I know that these things cost thousands of dollars to buy new and that a fully functioning wheel chair has more value to someone who can't walk than I have for it as a piece of my "art tricycle"... Anyway. If it had worked perfectly I honestly wouldn't have purchased it. I just know that a partially functioning wheel chair won't do anybody any good unless they know how to fix it. :?
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:22 am

I have no issue with your purchase. I just hate the system.
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Joeln » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:23 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I have no issue with your purchase. I just hate the system.
It's a very hate-able system.
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:24 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I have no issue with your purchase. I just hate the system.
I hate the system and I had issue with my purchase but I keep reminding myself that just because I know how to make practically anything work doesn't mean other people are as capable of tinkering/repairing the same thing...
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:29 am

bm_cricket wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I have no issue with your purchase. I just hate the system.
I hate the system and I had issue with my purchase but I keep reminding myself that just because I know how to make practically anything work doesn't mean other people are able to tinker/repair as well...
I can't. And it's hard to get the people who can to stop their busy lives to help. The drive wheels on my main chair have no tread left. I have to get a "prescription" from my doctor (who knows nothing about wheelchairs) in order to get them changed out. Seriously, wtf? Or, I can find someone in the underground wheelchair economy--possibly risking my relationship with the people who sold me my chair.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:37 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
bm_cricket wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I have no issue with your purchase. I just hate the system.
I hate the system and I had issue with my purchase but I keep reminding myself that just because I know how to make practically anything work doesn't mean other people are able to tinker/repair as well...
I can't. And it's hard to get the people who can to stop their busy lives to help. The drive wheels on my main chair have no tread left. I have to get a "prescription" from my doctor (who knows nothing about wheelchairs) in order to get them changed out. Seriously, wtf? Or, I can find someone in the underground wheelchair economy--possibly risking my relationship with the people who sold me my chair.
Please PM me. I'm happy to share what I have.
It was better next year. -Burners

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Joeln » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:43 am

Yeah, what Cricket said.
If you happen to be located near N Colo, I'd be happy to help too.
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Popeye » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:34 pm

Very nice!! I'm envious.
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:05 pm

Ulisse wrote:Very nice!! I'm envious.
It's sitting in my garage and I AM TOO. I can't believe the lucky fool who has this thing....

[media]
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:08 pm

BTW, as I am picking this thing up 7th or 8th hand I would love to know who made it. It's beautiful! .... What are the odds that I will actually find the first owner?
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Popeye » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:45 pm

Who know? When you take it to the burn someone might recognize it!!
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by daft » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:40 pm

Hope you already applied with DMV

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Joeln » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:45 pm

I get bikes aren't mutant vehicles, so where do trikes fall?
Does it matter if they are pedal or electric?

Never thought of this...
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:18 pm

Before I purchased and electrified my tricycle last fall, I contacted BMO DMV regarding electric tricycles.

Below is a copy of the information that they sent to me.

_____________________________________________________________________


So, depending on the exact configuration of your tricycle, it may not
need any licensing from the Burning Man DMV.

In terms of powered bicycles, we follow Nevada state law on what is
classified as an electric bicycle (and hence entitled to be treated as
a standard bicycle in terms of state traffic regulations)

*********************************************

(NRS 482.0287)
ELECTRIC BICYCLES
Electric bicycles as defined by Nevada state law may operate during
the event without any sort of license. That definition is as follows:
"Electric bicycle" means a device upon which a person may ride, having
two or three wheels, or every such device generally recognized as a
bicycle that has fully operable pedals and is propelled by a small
electric engine which produces not more than 1 gross brake horsepower
and which produces not more than 750 watts final output, and:
Is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with
the ground but is not a tractor; and Powered solely by such a small electric engine, is capable of a maximum speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on a flat surface
while carrying an operator who weighs 170 pounds. The term does not include a moped.
*********************************************

If your bicycle meets the above requirements, then it is allowed
without a Burning Man DMV License
Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,

-Chef Juke for the DMV Hotties
Specializing in Calibrating Windsocks -- Any where, Any Time, and Any elevation.

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:55 pm

I've been reading that again and again, very very closely and I'm pretty sure that as long as I put a small motor on this rig and nice big, fully functioning pedals, I'll be in the clear and fast on my way to playa heaven.
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:24 am

What a wonderful past few days! I've been chatting with FIGJAM about motor details and I'm in a great place right now with the wheel chair motor. Elliot was just in the neighborhood last night so over dinner and homebrew we spent plenty of time talking about pedals. I'm glad I took the old gas motor off the frame. I don't think Elliot even liked having little electric motors mocked up! He did have some great ideas for setting this up as pedal power and I'll have my work cut out for the next few days.

Elliot also pointed me toward some great sources for pre-engineered keyed drive shaft to bicycle chain sprocket sources. Does anyone know if there is some standard keyed drive shaft that gets used on wheel chair motors? This wheel chair has a drive shaft that measures 16.6mm in diameter... which is almost 2/3 inch diameter.. Almost isn't really good enough because almost won't make the wrong size part fit on my motor. :?
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14 pm

My first small scale electric trial of a single wheel chair motor worked! I mocked it up using 2x4 and metal brackets and a hacked together gear cog assembly for the motor shaft and it worked! I rode around inside my garage for a few feet!! The downsides I've come up with are: I was mounting it on something that was clearly designed as a battery rack. I will attempt to mount the motor on to a structural beam (a 1.5" diameter steel beam that runs parallel and about 5 inches above the main drive shaft.

God... who built this thing? It's a work of art. I hope I can do it justice.

A valuable lesson to anybody out there who wants to work on something that has bicycle parts: Ask Elliot! He knows all sorts of great resources for bicycle related parts and he pointed me toward Staton Inc. (Staton-inc.com). After sleuthing I came across this thing that I just purchased (It will be here in a few days). I think it will fit the drive shaft on my electric motor and give me a nice standard bicycle gear option! http://www.staton-inc.com/store/product ... 08-27.html

My motor seems to work differently than other electric motors in that I am not sure how to disconnect the built-in electronic break. :-( But if I put a free wheel on the motor then it shouldn't matter. I can't figure out how or where the break is wired in. Maybe somebody could show me a picture?

And a lesson for everyone: Wheel chair motors are amazing! Even at the lowest settings the controller could produce I was still able to move very comfortably once I mounted the motor in a reasonably solid mock-up. I am confident that once I get this mounted in a better position that it's not going to have any trouble moving me or the 1,000 lbs (rough estimate) of empty frame. Or the 2,000lbs of frame, LEDs, and guests. Wheel chair motors are AMAZING!
It was better next year. -Burners

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:50 pm

I just clipped the wires, but this guy went further. 8)

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:59 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I just clipped the wires, but this guy went further. 8)

[media]
So, my motors don't seem to have any useful markings on them but I did find someone who has the same motor and.... it's backwards. You need to energize the "break" to disable it. Weird?! Here is a link to it. I'll probably try it tomorrow.

[media]
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:34 am

After this discussion, I went out and looked at mine again.

Clipping the wires did what I wanted, but there was still a lever that could be bumped an simi-engage the break.

Looked like this.

Image

Pulled the end cap and removed 3 allen screws that held the break assembly.

Now it's just an electric motor with gear reduction, and no way to accidently engage the break.

Took 5 minutes!!! 8)

Image

Image
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by EspressoDude » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:21 am

I use wheelchair motors for a lot of my projects. The brake is spring applied, electrically released. The easiest way I have found to treat these is to remove coupling from the end of the shaft that holds the disc. 2 screws and a setscrew. The brass looking nut in the picture above on the shaft is the brake coupler. The motor is worm gear drive into a couple of regular cog gear reduction to the axle. The worm gear makes a reasonable brake when power is removed from the motor

The shafts are usually an odd metric size and sometimes wheelchair wheels have salvageable hubs that can be used or make them from scratch, bored to size
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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by rmc50 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:38 pm

I have read through all these posts a few times and I am confused:

BM_cricket: Can you describe the tricycle that you are trying to power?

Are we talking some sort of mutant vehicle, or just a simple three wheeled bike that you want some assist in pedaling around?

If you want to put an electric motor on a bike, be it a two wheeled or three wheeled version, the easiest thing to do is to buy a kit that includes a new front wheel with a motor hub installed. Here is a link of a place that sells such kits:

http://www.ampedbikes.com/kits.html

Installation is really simple; You unbolt your existing front wheel, bolt the new in its place, run some wires, mount the controller some place and you're done.

You can buy cheaper kits from China but the delivery times can be a month or more. The Amped Bike kits are a bit more deluxe and will ship quickly.

Last year I used a cheap China kit to power my "pedicab". My wife has knee issues, can't walk much and can't pedal a bike very well so I bought the pedicab so I could get her around. I put the motor on so I wouldn't be exhausted at the end of the day. I powered it with three 18 Amp-hour batteries (36 volt). With the wife in the back and me providing some pedal assist we could cruise at 12 MPH easily at about 1/2 power nn the hard packed playa. On some of the roads where the dirt got soft I would need to stand and pedal to through a few spots. There were a couple of deep soft spots on the playa where I had to get the wife out and I had to push,

I put 90 miles on the pedicab last year at Burning Man. The batteries lasted for two days of heavy use. Unfortunately, my main charger was DOA and I had a hard time recharging the batteries.

This year I have bought my wife a tricycle which I have installed the Amped Bike kit on.

Like someone else mentioned, I checked with the Burning Man organization ahead of time and was told the same thing: that if it qualifies for a no-license bike in the State of Nevada it is Okay at Burning Man. The key requirements was that it be 750 watts or less and capable of being pedaled.

While I was at Burning Man I stopped and talked to the BLM rangers and Sheriff regarding open contained laws, as I didn't want to run afoul of the law. They told me I was fine, it didn't count as a motor vehicle so open container didn't apply. DUI could still be applied, but not open container.

Rod

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Re: Electric tricycle motor

Post by bm_cricket » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:48 pm

rmc50 wrote:I have read through all these posts a few times and I am confused:

BM_cricket: Can you describe the tricycle that you are trying to power?

Are we talking some sort of mutant vehicle, or just a simple three wheeled bike that you want some assist in pedaling around?
This has 3 bicycle wheels on a frame but it is otherwise entirely custom. It's about the size of a TukTuk and it's built largely using bicycle components that have been re-engineered or re-designed. It's a tricycle and it will run with pedal power and electric assist. Most of the weight is in the rear end so I want it to be rear-wheel-drive. Having the power in the back will get better traction.

If we were working with a bicycle or an off-the-shelf tricycle frame then I would go with an off-the-shelf motor option but as this is so extremely custom already I'm stuck with custom solutions..... For better or for worse.... :lol:
It was better next year. -Burners

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Re: Electric tricycle motor how about a Segway?

Post by jimstamper » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:26 pm

Now that I think about it I have only seen two Segways at burning man Are they allowed? Thanks
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Re: Electric tricycle motor how about a Segway?

Post by AntiM » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:28 am

jimstamper wrote:Now that I think about it I have only seen two Segways at burning man Are they allowed? Thanks
They are. If I could afford one, I might have one. I know they can be rented specifically for the event, but am horrified by how much that option costs. I'm cheap (says the owner of a rhoadescar).

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