making a regular bike electric

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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tatonka
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making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:03 pm

Any source of info reguarding electric motors you can add to a bike? Was wondering whats best 250watt or 500 or 1000 , ans 24 or 36 or 48 volt. ?
want to contruct it and not just bolt it on.
thks
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tatonka
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:04 pm

found this site , but any help from fellow eplayers is welcome :)


http://www.motoredbikes.com/forum.php?s ... 6e978ef250
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by sadie » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Hi Tatonka.
I am working on a similar project. From what I have researched online, and learned from campmates with experience, the Razor scooter motors seem to be well suited.
I'm not much help with the best size motor to use. I am planning to build a 24volt system to keep the battery weight down.
We'll see how it all works out!
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:17 pm

thks Sadie Ive seen a couple of razors 4 sale , they are the least cost of them.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Lonesomebri » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:32 pm

Look Tatonka, from my perspective, any bike you sit on is going to be *electrified*
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:47 pm

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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Elorrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:57 pm

"V is for voltage"was a good forum when I electrified a bike years ago. Hub motors already built into wheels are easiest. I used a motor made by cyone which mounts right behind the pedals. More voltage means more batteries.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Elliot » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm

.
Yeah, lots of info on ePlaya already. Keep in mind that you are limited to 750 Watts = 1 HP. (1 HP = 746 W, for the nitpickers.)

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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:34 pm

thanks all , i typed in electric bike in the search function in upper corner and results wernt that great as Figjams google search .
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by unjonharley » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:26 am

I'm going with 380 watts.. That is the limit on streets of Salem.. Test runs will be to the store and back.. The motor is out of a Mongoose M-500 scooter.. Make sure to use a brake lever with a (electric) cut off switch..
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by trilobyte » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:37 am

I'm moving this over to the Transportation board, since that's a better fit.

To answer the question, there are several companies out there that sell e-bike motor kits to add electric assist to a bike or trike. I've got a hub motor kit made by this place on my trike, and it works well for both on-playa and when I ride the trike in town. Just before my third trip to the playa my battery failed, but that was a combination of age and user error (sealed lead acid batteries don't like being drained below a certain point, and I did that a few times...d'oh!).

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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Meat Hunter » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:42 am

As did Trilo, I purchased the kit for my tricycle from the company that he mentioned.

However, I opted for the 20a 36v lithium ion battery.

I purchased my kit in August of 2013 and used it every single day on the farm until I brought it to the playa 2014. Both on the farm and on the playa, I averaged 21-27 miles between charges. Even though I usually had 1/4 to 1/3 power remaining at the end of the day, on the playa, I charged the battery every night while I slept.

It was 2.25 miles from the airport to the Temple and I had enough juice to last me all day and as far into the night as I wished.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:13 pm

thks all , the 250watt motors say 12 miles flat surface and about 40min time b4 recharge , the 500watt said 17-20 miles flat service , and the 1000 watt said 45 miles . Cant do the 1000watt , and flat service we have on the playa , but Im thinking they are saying paved road. The sand will lugg it down a bit , will try to find a 750 watt. :)
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Meat Hunter » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:36 pm

The 750w motor should do nicely, that is what I have on my Schwinn tricycle.

The maximum load that I have carried was: trike. two baskets, & 20a 36v lithium ion battery 120 lbs, + myself 185 lb., + small ice chest in the back basket 35lbs. + an occasional passenger 120 - 150 lbs. sitting on the small ice chest in my back basket.

Although I could feel my motor staining a bit under the that maximum load, my 750w motor trucked along with no problem.

If you have a choice and can fit it into your budget, I highly recommend that you purchase at least a 20a lithium ion battery and not a lead acid battery. I know that they are expensive, but you will thank yourself later.

If I am not mistaken, Nevada law limits motorized trikes to 750w maximum.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:56 pm

thks , yes Elliot said above 750watt was max . Your set up is what I want , but im making a sidecar instead of the trike. Will still be stable when I come to a stop.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by unjonharley » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:06 pm

The speed limit in Black Rock City is 5 mph.. Well under 300 watts carried me right along.. Flat out it run about 8 mph.. Myself, batteries, pusher trailer and MV trike 300 plus pounds.. This year it will be near 400 watts.. Myself and new designed bike will weigh much less.

If we start building high powered bikes, the DMV is going be looking us up..

There are different (math) ways of coming up with watts, volts and battery distance. Depends if your the buyer or seller..
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:08 pm

PM unjon about his "pusher".

Very compact, doesn't add weight to the bike, and can use the cheaper 12 volt batteries! 8)
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by SnowBlind » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:33 pm

tatonka wrote:thks all , the 250watt motors say 12 miles flat surface and about 40min time b4 recharge , the 500watt said 17-20 miles flat service , and the 1000 watt said 45 miles .
The range you get is really dependent on the capacity of your battery, not the wattage of the motor. If anything, a more powerful motor will get *less* range, given an identical battery.

The reason they quote longer ranges for the more powerful motor is likely that those come with larger batteries. A lot of kits come without a battery though, which allows you to mix and max. That has the advantage that you can pick the battery size that's right for you.

In other words, pick the motor based on how much power you need, not on those ranges they quoted. (Then pick the battery based on how much range you need and how powerful a motor you chose)

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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:23 pm

learnin alot , thank you all :)
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Canoe » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:55 pm

SnowBlind wrote:...In other words, pick the motor based on how much power you need, not on those ranges they quoted. (Then pick the battery based on how much range you need and how powerful a motor you chose)
+100 on the above.

Now, did I miss this or where do you want to use this e-setup other than Burning Man?

How much weight will you be moving?

As discussed on eplaya before, if this will only be used at BRC, the 5mph speed limit means you can go a long way on the same deep cycle Costco batteries recommended for swamp coolers. With the battery weight, that is limited to three wheels or on a trailer, but a 105 ah or 120 ah (current models?) is a lot more capacity than 10ah to 20ah packs, and the 12 VDC limit is fine for 5 mph with the right motor.

If you're not buying a kit, but collecting your own parts, watch out for matching the voltages of the motor, controller and battery pack.

Remember, on the playa, you're limited to the e-bike definition under Nevada Law if you want to drive as an e-bike, so check what their motor power limits are.

Also covered before on eplaya (search) with lithium ion packs there's a big difference in safe use, long use (fry the pack - over or under voltage, shorts, etc.) and usable capacity, depending on the type/quality of BMS (battery management system) in the battery pack.

If the motor is going to move you around by itself, you'll have a significantly less range than if you're pedalling and the motor is just helping you.

You have three types of throttle: manual assist (twist or thumb throttle on the bars), an RPM sensor for motor assist, or a pedalling force torque measurement that drives the motor assist. The cost is the same order, cheap through expensive. Same for the controller that works with each.
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:13 pm

picked up a mx500 dirt bike , it has a 500 watt motor , but no batts. It is a 36 volt bike , and I go to their site and all they have is a 24 volt charger?

It was only 50.00 , also got for free a bike trailer :)


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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by unjonharley » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:21 pm

The volts and watts are printed on the motor..

Looked it up... 36 volts for the dirt rocket.. Sears has the charger for $100,00
Last edited by unjonharley on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tatonka
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:32 pm

yep its 36 volts and 500 watts , guess the 24 volt charger is for the smaller mx350
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by unjonharley » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:01 pm

My battery man said you charge these batteries at a rate of 1 tenth of the amp hours
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by unjonharley » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:08 pm

Amazon has 36 volt chargers for $15-16
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:06 pm

What's the top speed?

24 volt will be 2/3rds that speed.

12 volt will be 1/3 that speed. 8)
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tatonka
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by tatonka » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:24 pm

here's the site with all the info on it

http://www.thesuperkids.com/ramxdiroelbi1.html
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Meat Hunter » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:23 pm

Before I built my electric tricycle last year, I ask BM DMV about the legalities and this is what they sent me:

--------

So, depending on the exact configuration of your tricycle, it may not
need any licensing from the Burning Man DMV.

In terms of powered bicycles, we follow Nevada state law on what is
classified as an electric bicycle (and hence entitled to be treated as
a standard bicycle in terms of state traffic regulations)

*********************************************
(NRS 482.0287)
ELECTRIC BICYCLES
Electric bicycles as defined by Nevada state law may operate during
the event without any sort of license. That definition is as follows:
"Electric bicycle" means a device upon which a person may ride, having
two or three wheels, or every such device generally recognized as a
bicycle that has fully operable pedals and is propelled by a small
electric engine which produces not more than 1 gross brake horsepower
and which produces not more than 750 watts final output, and:
Is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with
the ground but is not a tractor; and
Powered solely by such a small electric engine, is capable of a
maximum speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on a flat surface
while carrying an operator who weighs 170 pounds.
The term does not include a moped.
*********************************************

If your bicycle meets the above requirements, then it is allowed
without a Burning Man DMV License
Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,

-Chef Juke for the DMV Hotties
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Martiansky » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:50 am

Tatonka
Im so glad you started a thread on this topic because I would like to have an electric trike myself.
I started looking on Craigslist for a razor and I havent found the one you got but instead the pink scooter version.
Im not sure if the motor is the same or not.
I did find a link to motorbicycling.com that may help you with your build along with all the wonderful knowledge of many on this board!
I wish I had had more time and a pencil and paper with me when Figjam and I were talking about electric trikes the night my sister and I found him at his camp!
All I can say is WOW and BRILLIANT!
So much food for thought!
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Re: making a regular bike electric

Post by Elorrum » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:12 pm

"Ask again later." - Magic 8-Ball

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