Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by trilobyte » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:25 pm

This post is intended as a resource guide for new burners, camp leaders, and campmates alike - basically anybody who is planning to arrive after the Burning Man gates open and/or arriving in multiple vehicles. It doesn't matter whether you're a camp that completed a questionnaire who was not able to be placed, you missed a registration deadline, had a big camp shakeup and are starting over, or don't even have any kind of theme. You're coming to Burning Man and it's going to be awesome!

Gate Day
Everyone should be reading this. The BLM has given Burning Man permission to open the gates at 12:01AM on Sunday August 28th (that is, just after midnight on Saturday). This is fantastic news! The idea is that this will move even more of the heaviest traffic periods to off-peak hours. That makes the highway a little safer, and has the added side effect of giving people a few more hours on the playa to get their camps set up. This means you!

If your group is traveling in several different vehicles, you will want to have a plan. Agree on a target neighborhood, and agree on a specific intersection (for example, 4:05 and H) to meet back up at. Click here to check out the 2016 BRC city map, print a copy for each vehicle with your target area clearly marked. Even if you rock the convoy on the way from Reno to BRC, by the time you get through the gate and greeters, your vehicles will probably get separated. Having a plan means less stress. There is a Burning Man Traffic newsfeed on Twitter, if you've got a smartphone you should follow it and check it while you're still in an area that has service.

Do NOT plan to arrive before 12:01AM. What will happen is that the early arriving cars will wind up being parked in a staging area, and won't get into the city until the people who turned up at 12:01AM get in ahead of you. Ouch. Don't be that guy or girl, who goes through all that effort and puts in all that time, only to wind up in traffic limbo for several hours because you showed up too early. Figure that it takes around 2 hours from Reno to Gerlach with no traffic and will probably take around 3 hours once the gates have opened, so plan to leave Reno between 9-10PM (after making sure you've topped off the tanks and iced up all the coolers). Check the Burning Man Traffic feed on Twitter on the day (it might be nice in Reno but raging dust storms...or raining in BRC)! Veterans already know this, but for the benefit of the new folks, WATCH YOUR SPEED LIMIT! Basically, it goes like this: in between the little towns, the speed limit goes up and you can make great time, but when you approach one of those little towns the speed limit will quickly drop from 65+ down to 35 or even 25mph. And of course, there will be police officers on the lookout for people who don't slow down as they approach the tiny little town. Pay attention! It's not that they're jerks trying to get you, it's that they're sleepy little towns with tiny populations that include families with little kids, and the idea of thousands of fully loaded vehicles blasting down their main street at 75mph freaks them out.

Once you get past Gerlach and turn off the paved road and onto the gate road... you're almost there. Turn off the aircon or set it to recycled air so it doesn't suck up a bunch of playa dust. Stick to the posted speed limits! They're important for three very important reasons: first, the usual road safety junk; second, because driving faster contributes to tearing up the road and digging deep nasty ruts (veterans, you know how much they can suck); and third, because the dust you kick up will blow through the traffic ahead of you and also into the city.

With a 12:01AM gate, that means the first to arrive will be getting there in the dead of night... and deserts can get cold at night! Have something warm to wear - layers of clothing are idea. Make sure you've got headlamps and clear goggles handy. But as the day progresses and the sun starts to rise, the temperature will start to rise and you'll be roasting in no time. Holy crap, hydrate! It's worth noting that there are porta-potties on the gate road (several banks, over 100 in all),/i], but be sure that when *you* need to use one your vehicle won't be close. Make sure you have a backup driver who can take over and let the driver high-tail it to the porta-potties. It does not matter what lane you are in - as you approach the gate, let them know if someone in your vehicle has a will call ticket - the gate staff will get you where you need to go safely. These people are awesome, and working hard to make sure people can get in quickly and safely - feel free to tell them you appreciate their hard work.

At the next step, they'll check your tickets and inspect your vehicle - YES, they have to inspect your vehicle! Know that someone is going to have to check through it, so leave some space when packing that cargo van or truck - the easier you make it for the gate crew, the easier you make it for yourself... and everybody else in the line. The best pro-tip I can share about this part is make sure your vehicle is easy to inspect. If it takes 20 minutes to dig through a big load, that's everybody in that line waiting 20 more minutes. If you pack like a champ and gate staff can get through it in 5 minutes, you just got everyone into Burning Man 15 minutes sooner :D The veterans already know this, but for the sake of the newbies, know that if a vehicle is found to be carrying a stowaway, tickets for everyone in that vehicle will be confiscated, the vehicle pass canceled (and denied any re-entry to BRC), and the entire vehicle will be turned around and sent back to Reno. Nobody wants that, make sure everyone getting into your vehicle has either a physical ticket or printouts of the info they'll need for will call.

Next will come Greeter's, which is another group of awesome people. If you've got a new person in your group (and I hope that you do), make sure they get the full court treatment (whatever that may entail). Holy crap, now you've gotten through greeters let's get to camp as fast as we can! Well, not quite. 5mph, folks! It's MUCH more important here, you are right on top of the city at this point. Leaving greeters is simple, left to go to the 9 side, right to go to the 3 side. If you're aiming for 6, pick either one and then turn back in as you get to the city streets.

You are now in Black Rock City!
Once you've picked a side, stay on the outermost street and keep it at or under 5mph until you get to the time on the dial you're looking for. Remember, keeping it at/under 5 keeps the dust and the ruts down. Do not dive into the inner streets hoping to save a few precious minutes. Rolling a bunch of fully loaded trucks on the inner streets will help tear up the playa and make for more ruts as we get through the week - nobody wants to pedal through ruts or big dust dunes, so avoid that if you can.

Get to that intersection you and your campmates agreed to meet at. If you've appointed someone as your "Glorious Leader And Decider Of Things" have the vehicle that person is in scout the neighborhood and find an open spot. Once they find a suitable spot for the camp, pull in! If there are immediate neighbors, go say hi and check to make sure your camp boundaries are fine. This is important! Being neighborly here sets yourself up for having awesome neighbors all week, instead of some kind of playafied Hatfields/McCoys thing where people are grumbling about being in each other's space.

Once that spot's sorted, HOLY CRAP YOU'RE HERE! Send someone back to that intersection other vehicles will be going to and have them let your campmates know exactly where to find you. Pro tip - in addition to whatever camp signage you were thinking of having out in front of your camp, make a smaller sign with a space for you to write the location specifics in - and then put that sign up at the agreed-upon intersection.

Get 'er Done!
If you have campmates traveling with you who are not heavy lifters, send them to Playa Info (near Center Camp) to enter your camp's info into their computer. That way, anyone who might be looking for your awesome camp will know exactly where you landed. Depending on how the timing works out, and how quickly you get through the line, you may find yourselves at your camp site either in the dead of night or right as the day is starting to get hot. Be really careful here - unless you have work lights it's really easy to drop and lose things forever (especially if the wind kicks up), and during peak daytime hours it can be easy to get overheated, dehydrated, and find yourselves with heatstroke. If it's super dark, walk around and stretch your legs, jump around excitedly, or just take a nap in your vehicle until the sky starts to lighten. If the sun's already up, take it easy during peak hours. If you've got a few people in your group who aren't heavy lifters, assign at least one of them to make sure your team is hydrated and taking in electralytes (whether that's through gatorade, pedialyte, emerg-n-c, or electralyte tablets doesn't matter). Everyone in your camp is a rock star.

If you planned things right, you've got a map showing the layout of your camp's key structures. Everybody work together to get the first structure put together and secured, and from there you have a base of operations on the playa. Depending on how the size of your crew and what your plans are, you can either all move to the next thing, or split into smaller groups working on various parts of unpacking and unloading.

Weather and energy permitting, those pre-dawn hours as well as late afternoon and into the evening is a great time to set up your camp. If your budget allows for it and your camp has a generator, consider getting something like this:
Image

Remember, if it's windy/dusty, don't attempt building at night - dropped bolts/screws/bits/whatever will be lost, and you'll fight a losing battle. If the weather's agreeable, evening and night setups are pretty great - the temps are much less oppressive. If you've got to hold off on setup (because of weather, night, etc), use the time wisely. Rest, hydrate, eat, explore the immediate area and meet the neighbors.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Ratty » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:20 pm

I bring a very small, cheap, beat up dome tent. This is used for unloading the van. It goes up in a jif and once you put a couple of heavy things in it, it won't blow away. Sometimes I leave it up all week with the stuff I'll 'maybe need. Extra bike tire, tools, extra rope, straps, batteries, lights, rebar, hammers and things I'll need later in the week. A couple of rebar and straps keeps it in place.

I love the auxiliary tent because I don't want to be tripping over un-needed stuff all week. Plus it lets me unload quickly and not lose things in the dust storm. I sleep in my van so I can't store the extra stuff there.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by LowePro » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:38 pm

Anyone with Gate in inside knowledge have any further considerations to share for the Will-Call line this year?
Same as before or any changes? Thanks!

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by trilobyte » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:53 pm

Box office should work very much like 2015 from a line and management stand point - the team did a really excellent job. I would also expect that because of the Ticket Transfer Tool and the ability to split up ticket orders this year, the line should progress more smoothly than in the past (since there isn't really a need to leave the other ticket in the order for another person - it can be done electronically at any point before arriving at the gates).

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by yeezy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:15 pm

Hey all,

It looks like our estimated arrival time is 3am Tuesday. Is there a place inside the gate that we can just park and sleep in the car, so we don't end up trying to setup camp in the dark and disturb our neighbors or run over ppl stumbling back to camp? Or is there a place just outside the gates where we can just crash for a couple hours and enter after dawn? Or should we just go for it in the dark?

Thanks for your help see you soon!

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Token » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:53 pm

Yeezy, you can park in any open camping areas marked on your map that are unoccupied. You will get a map when you enter the event.

In general, temporary parking on the last ring for your nap would be good.

Now how in the world you pull off sleeping with all the excitement of actually getting there ... Now that is a magic trick you gotta teach.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by yeezy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:14 pm

"Now how in the world you pull off sleeping with all the excitement of actually getting there the next six days ... " ftfy :)

Thanks Token. We'll play it by ear of course, expecting the unexpected, but it's great to have a plan so we can abandon it upon arrival. Thanks for your help!

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Eric » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:43 pm

And just to clarify Tokens comment a little: there really isn't anywhere between Reno & BRC to nap. Either take your nap in the parking lot of one of the grocery stores in Reno, or do as he suggest and do it on the outer road of BRC, which is well inside Gate (3:00 side is usually easier to find a place to camp). Just make sure your driver is well rested for the final push from Reno to Burning Man, because it can take anywhere from 6 hours on.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by ChicoTerri » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:28 pm

If we have a designated camp location, is it feasible to leave a camp mate, (a strong young man), with his bike at Will Call to pick up his ticket while we go ahead to start setting up camp? How far is it from Will Call to BRC and is it safe for a cyclist to be on the road? It would be great to get busy setting up, but I don't want to put anyone at duress or in danger. Thanks!
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Eric » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:36 pm

ChicoTerri wrote:If we have a designated camp location, is it feasible to leave a camp mate, (a strong young man), with his bike at Will Call to pick up his ticket while we go ahead to start setting up camp?
Absolutely under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is that allowed. Period. If he's seen trying to bike into BRC from Will Call his ass will get pulled over - if he doesn't just get stopped at Gate; and when they find out which camp dumped him there (because that's what you're doing), they'll come to visit you. If you're lucky the "they" will be people from Gate or Burning Man. If you're unlucky it will be the BLM, because it's not considered BRC until you're past Greeters.

Burners wait for their friends, even if it takes 8 hours at Will Call (and I speak from experience).
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by ChicoTerri » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:54 pm

Thank you Eric. I wasn't trying to start anything, I just didn't know. We will certainly wait with him.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by ChicoTerri » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:29 pm

Also, note to self: Do not ask what seems to you to be an innocent question on eplaya, evincing concern for others and a desire to do the right thing, unless you are willing to be lambasted.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Sham » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:37 pm

Chico, the gate is emphatic about not having people walk in or ride their bikes. Your question was a good one and Eric's strong answer was meant for others to hear.
Further, everyone is a smidge testy as we are all doing are final packing to head off to the playa. It starts to get really crazy around this time.

Hang in there my dear! :D

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by ChicoTerri » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:53 pm

Thank you, Sham. It's getting crazy around here too, but it will all be worth it soon. :D
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by 666isMONEY » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:06 am

I arrived early, shortly after sundown because I didn't want to wait outside in the dark, alone, along the highway somewhere or drive at night. Ended up in the staging area and was very happy with the experience. Got through the gate at approximately 1 am (Hate starting/stopping the car, breathing other ppl's exhaust etc. too.)

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by mamaliga » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:49 am

Thanks for the info. I am an Australian virgin burner planning for my first Burning Man and would love some advice about the best strategy for meeting up with our friends on the Playa. (Not sure if I should post in this 2016 thread but found this to be the most relevant thread to the info I'm seeking - maybe I should start a new post in Q&A?).

We are a group of six in two vehicles. Two of us will be arriving from the Pacific North-West in the van, and the other four (in the RV) will be coming from San Francisco.

After reading about the craziness at Gerlach and the restrictions in terms of stopping on the road anywhere in the area, I thought meeting up in Gerlach didn't sound viable.

I also read about the long wait times to get into the Playa, and thought the suggested idea of entering on the Tuesday might be a good one. Our friends, on the other hand, are keen to get there as close to opening as possible.

So my questions are:
1. Is this a sensible decision; and
2. Will we be able to meet up with our friends on the Playa using the directory?

For the two of us coming from the north, the current plan is to stay overnight (maybe Cedarville or south-east of Klamath Falls) and get up super early on the Tuesday morning (like 3am) and head to BRC with the aim of getting there to set up at the break of day, avoiding the heat. I'm hoping to track down our friends' location using the directory (although this service might not be open at 6/7am?).

We could pick some coordinates and our early-arriving friends could try to set up camp there, but I worry this might be a flawed plan as you never know whether those spots will be available when you get there, or they might feel the vibe towards another area on the Playa and head elsewhere.

I've just re-read your post and think your suggestion: make a smaller sign with a space for you to write the location specifics in - and then put that sign up at the agreed-upon intersection might then be the best option?, as I suspect we won't be able to get to Centre Camp where the directory is anyway, without having set-up?

Any tips/thoughts?
Last edited by mamaliga on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by burner von braun » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:24 am

Tuesday will likely have a somewhat shorter line, but you will have lost a day in the process. Not sure that's a good tradeoff.

And thanks for choosing not to stop and linger in Gerlach, the way I see it, that area is already a serious traffic choke point.

Regarding meeting up with campmates, I wouldn't count on the directory exclusively, nor a sign on a street post, I'd have a fall back plan too, as Trilo stated above. Plan to meet on foot at some predesignated location (near where you hope to set up your camp) at predetermined times, until you do finally meet up. Who knows, they might get delayed on the road, so I'd have a failsafe contingency plan like this in place.

Of course the easiest thing would be to use your cell phone. Coverage seems to be improving from what I understand. I never use mine out there, and personally think it's better to leave them off, but this is perhaps an example of a scenario where I see it as beneficial, if you can get a signal.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by mamaliga » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:01 am

Thanks Mr Von Braun. Yes, I was thinking a similiar thing - that we might end up spending too much time looking for our mates, after already arriving 'late', so am reconsidering our Tuesday arrival option. Any suggestions on a good way to meet up on the road when coming from such different directions?

Yes I didn't even think there would be cell phone coverage. I hate these things at the best of times, but they sure can be handy. Good to know that this might be another fall-back option.

When you say "Plan to meet on foot at some predesignated location (near where you hope to set up your camp) Do you mean something like intersection G-6 o'clock? Not knowing the Playa makes it hard to imagine what these locations might be. At gatherings I know well, it's easy to say 'in front of the falafel van' or 'left of the mixing desk', but when you don't know the lay of the land, it makes it a bit harder.

And any tips re: good coordinates to camp? We probably won't be able to work this out until the map comes out with the designated campsites (is that right)? but given none of us know the Playa, would be good having some recommended coordinates as a starting point.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:41 am

If you and your friends plan to meet up on the same day, once you get past gate and greeters, agree to meet near one of the outer most ring road intersections.

If you can get in Sunday or Monday there will be plenty of open space out there, so it will be easy to spot each other.

After greeters, the road splits to the left and right. (10:00 side left 2:00 side right)

The spokes are the "o'clock" streets and the circular streets are the "lettered".

The outer ring lettered street should be L. (unless they expanded again)

Example: We'll meet at 5 and L, then all look for our camp spot.

Zoom in and play with this, then decide where you will first meet up.

6:00 spoke runs from greeters right through the middle of center camp and out to the The Man and The Temple. :D

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by burner von braun » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:43 pm

In addition to FIGJAM's very cool aerial map, which is great fun to explore, here is an another map to look at, from last year. The purple areas are reserved camping. The white areas inside the city are open to all on a first come, first served basis, so to speak. So yes, determine an intersection to meet at, preferably on the outskirts as FJ suggested, then go inward (or not) to choose your camp spot. Be sure to hop out and talk to your neighbors a bit before you begin setting up.

Image

When you go through 'greeters', they'll give you several things, including the 2017 version of this map, which more than likely will be similar to this version.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by mamaliga » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:18 am

Sounds good. Thanks for the maps and detailed info and guidance Mr V and FIGJAM. You've answered all my questions very kindly and comprehensively :)

I am still wondering, if we choose to change our plans and arrive/convoy with our friends coming from SF earlier in the week, do you have any tips on a place to meet up? Gerlach seems to be the first stop that our two routes meet, but sounds like it's not okay to wait there. How about Empire - is that a better/acceptable/safe option? I promise to buy something at the shops!

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by AntiM » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:33 am

Empire is very small, which would make spotting each other very easy. You can pull off the road on the west side, get far over, out of the way. There is also some open area at the north end. You still have cell signal there, so that makes it simpler. It is not ideal, but not impossible. Empire can get very crowded, with people walking/dashing across the highway. Proceed carefully, please and thank you!

Once you get into the gate road mix, do not worry if a vehicle or two gets in between you, it will all sort out. Everyone is eager and anxious.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by mamaliga » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:30 am

Thanks AntiM. That sounds good and doable. And yes, expect the convoy to be broken. Just be good to attempt to arrive at around the same time (if that's what we decide to do). We will follow trilobytes/FIGJAM's excellent advice by meeting up on the outer rings of the Playa at a predetermined 'o'clock/spoke position' if we lose each other on the way in.

If we arrive at totally different times/days, we'll use the pre-designated coordinates/intersections and times and/or the directory and/or the cell phone. Fantastic! What could go wrong ;)

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by FlyingMonkey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:37 pm

I know every year is different but in general how long does it typically take to get from Fernley to Greeters. I have always tried to pay attention to how long it takes but usually get distracted by shiny objects & lose focus. Fernley is always a nice place to stop & stock up on last minute items. I would actually like to try & time it so we are going through greeters around sunrise Sunday. I know the Maths are more of an art than a science when it comes to this.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by trilobyte » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:51 am

You're absolutely right - every year is different. Further, it can vary greatly by day. Stay tuned to the BRC traffic info via twitter or on BMIR (in the iHeartRadio app) during your approach, and you'll get a much clearer picture.

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by FlyingMonkey » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:29 pm

trilobyte wrote:You're absolutely right - every year is different. Further, it can vary greatly by day. Stay tuned to the BRC traffic info via twitter or on BMIR (in the iHeartRadio app) during your approach, and you'll get a much clearer picture.
Thanks Trilo.

That was pretty much the plan anyway.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by JaimeGrant » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:50 pm

Hi,

I've searched available info and can't find an answer to this query. I am picking up a ticket, which is a gift, for my father on the playa that I must get to my dad before he gets to the gate the following day. Can I ride my bike back to Will Call and leave it? Can I ride my bike to meet his car in line? Do I need to drive my car out to Will Call?

I'm sure there must be a protocol, I just can't find it. Any help please.

Thanks,

Jaime

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Savannah
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Savannah » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:12 pm

JaimeGrant wrote:Hi,

I've searched available info and can't find an answer to this query. I am picking up a ticket, which is a gift, for my father on the playa that I must get to my dad before he gets to the gate the following day. Can I ride my bike back to Will Call and leave it? Can I ride my bike to meet his car in line? Do I need to drive my car out to Will Call?

I'm sure there must be a protocol, I just can't find it. Any help please.

Thanks,

Jaime
I will steer some Gate/Perimeter/Exodus people to this post; they'll know. [edit: I have just asked Ygmir, a Perimeter God, to chime in on this matter].

Note: there is virtually no way in heck you can meet his car in line. It'd be hard to find him even if you had a cell signal, which you probably won't.

Other concerns include: proving you have already been inside the event. Make sure you don't just go recklessly out of the event without proof you were already inside and have paid. I'm not sure if a ticket stub is enough. For example, when people have temporarily left the city in the past, on a bus, they not only had to have their ticket, but also a chit issued to them at the bus stop.

Could the person selling or giving the ticket to you be asked to leave that ticket at Will Call, in your Dad's legal name? He could then pick it up with state-issued ID/passport.
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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by ygmir » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:38 pm

JaimeGrant wrote:Hi,

I've searched available info and can't find an answer to this query. I am picking up a ticket, which is a gift, for my father on the playa that I must get to my dad before he gets to the gate the following day. Can I ride my bike back to Will Call and leave it? Can I ride my bike to meet his car in line? Do I need to drive my car out to Will Call?

I'm sure there must be a protocol, I just can't find it. Any help please.

Thanks,

Jaime
hi jaime,
is this ticket, an actual ticket? IE: paper.
That will matter to an answer.

You can ride out, to gate, but you must ride right next to the flag line, outside the traffic lanes, and you must have your ticket stub. You can do this only for official purposes, like a ticketing thing.
If you do this, be prepared to be stopped and asked for your stub.
When you get to gate, seek out a lead and explain what you are doing. Do not just wander around. It'll make life much easier.
If found outside the trash fence, with no proof, you could be asked to leave, directly. Not saying it will happen, but it could.
you may not ride out to the gate lanes/line.
you may not drive your car, unless you are leaving, or, have approval in the form of one of several stickers, once the event starts.
I'm more Perimeter than Gate, so someone may have more accurate info, but this is the best of my knowledge to your situation.
YGMIR

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Re: Planning Arrival After The Gates Open 2016

Post by Dr. Pyro » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:23 pm

Oh great Yggy, now you're just encouraging him.

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