Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
Post Reply
User avatar
MitchellJThomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2016

Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by MitchellJThomas » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:09 am

I adore BRC for its bike culture. But boy what a challenge BRC presents when parking a bike. Last year (my BRC maiden voyage) I had the common playa kickstand problem, my bike fell over in high winds despite the tennis ball solution. So finding a "playa ready" kick stand has been on my mind.

Fast forward 10 months. I've got a new playa bike in the works and my whiz kid neighbor offered to design and fabricate something to help me out.

Here I present to you good people "The Playa Bike Foot": https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2445338

His design includes a photo of the 3D-printed version mounted on a "Steel Double Leg Kickstand" I purchased online. Its in the prototype stage since I have yet to test it in playa-like conditions. Your mileage may vary. Check it out, try it out, report back here if it worked for you. I'll do the same.

*****Moderator note: This 3-D printed device is a free download.

User avatar
MitchellJThomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2016

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by MitchellJThomas » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:54 pm

Update! One of the two feet has warped during its exposure to the sun presumably due to the pressure of the bike.

I am working with my neighbor on solutions to the problem, starting with a lighter color (than black), perhaps thicken the foot material and maybe a protective coating (silver spray paint?)

User avatar
Molotov
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:03 am
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: ESD Camp "The 'Burbs" 3:07 and D
Location: Lone Star, Texas

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by Molotov » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:07 am

Back in the day I rode a motorcycle and lived in a small town with soft asphalt streets. After several instances of my kickstand sinking into the asphalt and the bike falling over, I started carrying a flattened, washed steel soup or vegetable can that I would put under the kickstand. That gave it enough surface area to prevent sinking. I was always diligent about picking it up, but spares were cheap. If you went that route on the playa, don't make it into a moop problem.

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 2808
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:13 pm

I'm confused over an ePlayan commodifying a first world solution to just laying a bike down. Post history? These posts are unwelcome.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14486
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by Elderberry » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:43 pm

some seeing eye wrote:I'm confused over an ePlayan commodifying a first world solution to just laying a bike down. Post history? These posts are unwelcome.
I'm confused. Is he selling this or just making it available to the community? If he's selling it, where are you finding a price?
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 19969
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West
Contact:

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by AntiM » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:02 am

Molotov wrote:Back in the day I rode a motorcycle and lived in a small town with soft asphalt streets. After several instances of my kickstand sinking into the asphalt and the bike falling over, I started carrying a flattened, washed steel soup or vegetable can that I would put under the kickstand. That gave it enough surface area to prevent sinking. I was always diligent about picking it up, but spares were cheap. If you went that route on the playa, don't make it into a moop problem.
Yeah, MyLarry just welded a big washer to the foot, or we did the tennis ball thing. I have a spare MOOP tennis ball if anyone needs one. Although I guess if you had a 3-d printer, designing one would be more fun.

User avatar
spacetime
Posts: 459
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:12 am
Burning Since: 2014

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by spacetime » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:12 am

Ya this is a free little thing this person came up with. I was going to respond earlier but I thought it was a nice enough idea. Though I don't think that many people know how or where to 3d print stuff yet. Probably a "how to use this" note needs to go with any 3D printed design guides at this point.

I installed a new kickstand installed on my '38 colson this year. This one is a "center mount double leg" so rather than that side swing one which falls in the ground and needs a foot or a golf ball, it centers the bike.

User avatar
MitchellJThomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2016

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by MitchellJThomas » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:55 pm

Apologies for the confusion.

This is free for anyone to use or modify. I don't want your money, but appreciate your feedback (ideally positive in tone/nature). Perhaps some of the confusion is me trying to come up with a catchy name... ignore the name, use the idea if it suits you.

I really like the low-tech approaches too. So far I've heard "squashed soup can" and "small square of plywood".

As to the "use or modify" part. Or put another way "How the hell am I supposed to use this?". You need access to a 3d printer. However now that I type this answer, I don't see any reason you couldn't fabricate it yourself with metal working tools too e.g. grinder, metal band saw, tin snips, files, etc. , using the dimensions as a guideline.

As for 3d printing, there are services/shops online or in your town. For example I live in Portland, Oregon and know of a few of them. These services/shops will print things for you if you provide the designs, which in this case are free to download from www.thingverse.com, which you do without an account. BTW, I don't work for nor am invested in any way in www.thingverse.com... they just provide a free way to share designs.

asr9754
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by asr9754 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:01 pm

I've been experimenting with this style kickstand per a tip from Elliot (Thanks! :) ) and will see how it runs this year
Delete.jpg
I had to hacksaw off a bit of the bracket because it wouldn't fit onto my bike's rear fork, so it turned out to be a bit of a project, but seems very sturdy so far. The dust will tell.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
MitchellJThomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2016

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by MitchellJThomas » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:04 pm

As for laying your bike down. That works for me in small settings with few bikes, however doesn't work in a sea of 100s of bikes (which I absolutely love). In those situations, I try to make my bike easy to locate with unique flags and lights etc. which requires it to stay (mostly) upright. Of course the playa is the great equalizer and has laid my bike low more than once... so it goes.

So this is my project (again which I wish to share with you for free) for my bike to have a wider, stable stance on the playa hard pack.

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16750
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by trilobyte » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:15 pm

The problem, of course, with doing a 3D printed thing at the bottom of the kickstand is that unless you're using a material that can withstand extremely high temps, it's not going to work during the day in the desert. High temperatures, plus much hotter under direct sunlight, and of course the convection effect of playa being baked in the sun all day. We've got a 3D printer, and we've used it for all sorts of projects on and off the playa, and based on our experience you'd be wasting time and money.

Tennis balls generally work, unless of course you're doing it wrong™ , and someone looking to over-engineer a solution can probably come up with something far more effective with simple and inexpensive materials found at a local hardware store.

Your mileage may vary, and remember PLA/ABS is MOOP.

maladroit
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:20 pm

I have a few 3D printers, some nylon filament, live near Portland, and it's a great week to do some thermal stability testing. But...I also have a tennis ball.

maladroit
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:29 pm

Here is a piece of playa-tested 3D printed PLA that was mounted to the front of a bike. It remained stable the whole time last year, but it's not under heavy load.

I have other playa-tested gear that is under heavier load and has survived a few burns, but I used nylon filament for that. Way, way stronger and will not shatter or soften on the playa.
File Aug 03, 2 24 47 PM.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5798
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by BBadger » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:47 pm

The problem I have with consumer-grade 3D printing is that the PLA and other materials seem so flimsy and cheap that I don't trust them for anything more than desk ornaments. I think it is possible to bake the PLA to make it stronger and more rigid, but I still want stuff made of metal or other stronger materials.

For a "kickstand," I think I'd probably just get a cheap folding bike stand and mount it to the bike somehow... or just lay the thing on the ground.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

maladroit
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:44 pm

I have a lot of functional PLA and ABS parts. In fact, I only print decorative objects while testing a printer...most of what I print is functional. You just have to design the part for the application and materials you have. Sometimes a material is ruled out...for example, PLA will soften in hot water from the tap. Not ideal if it lives in a car and is under load.

Nylon is a higher temperature material and extremely tough. I have printed test bars of it at the same infill as PLA and ABS. I could snap the PLA and ABS like a biscotti, but the nylon I could not destroy.

I do also have a small CNC machine and some aircraft grade aluminum, but I'll design a custom machined bike foot when literally every other dream project happens. I have enough to last me a few decades.

User avatar
TORD
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:17 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Camp Name: CAMP NOT FOR PROPHETS
Location: TACOMA / PORT ORCA

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by TORD » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:49 pm

And if your bike falls over anyway may as well leave it down. I run 2 leged kick stand and it mostly works. A tennis ball takes up too much space that my big ass boots need to pedal.
TODD/TORD/TUNA/TORKA/TORID/THOR ROYALL CASPELL

User avatar
spacetime
Posts: 459
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:12 am
Burning Since: 2014

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by spacetime » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:58 pm

How did this work out, btw?

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8226
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:47 am

Is your bike falling over, or is the playa turning sideways?
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
Canoe
Posts: 3271
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by Canoe » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:46 pm

trilobyte wrote:... unless you're using a material that can withstand extremely high temps,...
And the chemical composition of the various particulate that makes up playa soil.
BBadger wrote:...or just lay the thing on the ground.
But it'll get dusty! (said the sparkle pony)
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

User avatar
MitchellJThomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2016

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by MitchellJThomas » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:21 am

Hey @spacetime to answer your "How did it work out?" question.

Well... as folks here indicated the foot ended up warping slightly even after revision 2 (thicker footing, more supports). Also as folks mentioned, the typical PLA material didn't cut it in this application. So if I try it again (big maybe) I'll try metal. My whiz-bang neighbor found a cold-casting technique which would be fun to play with... but still had some kind of epoxy involved... which makes me slightly suspicious of the ability to cope with the heat under a load.

On a brighter note, what did work well was a heavy duty cargo bike kick stand I picked up at one of my favorite local bike shops. See the attached image. I had to make a small mod. I installed set screws to keep the legs slightly pitched outward due to the width of the wheels.
wide-kick-stand.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Elliot
Posts: 7706
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:41 pm
Burning Since: 2006

Re: Bike kickstand design: The Playa Bike Foot

Post by Elliot » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:52 pm

Looks to me like this thread got off on the wrong foot.
The link in the original post takes us to a photo of the 3-d printed gadget installed on a TWO-LEGGED STAND.
The two-legged stand is by far the more relevant feature here.

Image

These are the two basic types of two-legged stands.
A variation on the center-mounted one is that the legs splay outward for increased stability as the stand is lowered. This is the kind the OP has -- see the post above this one.

And as for 3-D printing a fancy shape and color?!

Image

Criminy. Any old arc welding box will stick a washer or whatever onto a steel stand.

Oh... aluminum stand?
Replace it with a steel one. Most of the aluminum stands I see on PLaya are broken.

For parking stability... how you load the bike matters.
No basket on the handlebar.
Instead, install a rear luggage rack, and a basket on the right-hand side of that -- the side stand is on the left side. Avoid carrying anything on the rack itself.

And make sure the side-stand fits the bike correctly, so the bike does not lean too much, or too little.

Enough for one day! :mrgreen:

Post Reply

Return to “Bikes & Transportation”