eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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unjonharley
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by unjonharley » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:56 am

Itripper wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
Itripper wrote:I had my Ebike at Burning Man, best idea ever. Helped my cargo bike transport up to 3 people (besides myself) at a time. I use the largest size Kryptonite New York U lock, actually locks up fast and ez with it, and takes a battery powered cut off wheel about 10 minutes to cut through, with a lot of sparks, I am sure it would be noticed if someone was cutting it. I had 1200 watts of solar that I used to charge the bike lights deep cycle battery and the motor battery, that worked well. Dust got everywhere, just hosed off the bike when I got home and it still runs fine. Worst case would have been needing to replace the hub motor, but direct drive hub motors a fairly robust and mine lived just fine. I really cant tell you how awesome it was having an ebike this year, and needed for hauling many peeps around. I picked up many stragglers lost in the deep playa late at night and also several people who arrived on the burner express and needed lifts to their camp, really not doable on a standard bike, especially in the heat we had.

https://i.imgur.com/EtMNGVO.jpg
Image
Were you one of the ass-hats, speeding on the streets with your fancy$$$ bike??
Nice assumption making, wouldn't expect that from a fellow burner. I never speed on the streets, in fact normally use the electric only when taking off or if I'm carrying several people. My " fancy bike" is my poor mans art car, it looks cool at night. I hope you contemplate the negative energy you are putting out here, and turn it into a positive discussion.
Just asked a question .. Didn't mean to hit a sore spot ..
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spacetime
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by spacetime » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:29 pm

maladroit wrote:I think that there will be no response or reaction to ebikes next year. As one person who spent the least amount of time out of camp ever this year, I still saw multiple gas-powered mopeds speeding down city streets. If they can fart around with impunity I have a hard time imagining that ebikes will be identified and targeted in any way.
I am hopeful. I saw at least 2, maybe 3 gas-powered moped bicycles on our street throughout the week. You can't miss them, but somehow they were still puttering around.

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Itripper
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Itripper » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:54 am

unjonharley wrote:
Itripper wrote:
unjonharley wrote: Were you one of the ass-hats, speeding on the streets with your fancy$$$ bike??
Nice assumption making, wouldn't expect that from a fellow burner. I never speed on the streets, in fact normally use the electric only when taking off or if I'm carrying several people. My " fancy bike" is my poor mans art car, it looks cool at night. I hope you contemplate the negative energy you are putting out here, and turn it into a positive discussion.
Just asked a question .. Didn't mean to hit a sore spot ..
Its all good man! I'll have to look you up next year and take you for a cruise!
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tatonka
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:15 am

Here is one I am building for BM , next time I come out. Still has no brakes yet . It weighs 100lbs , the motor came off a mc bike that weighed 125lbs and could hold a rider 176lbs. So im good at 142lbs :) It goes about 15mph tops , still alot of work to do yet , and if I want to paint it I have to take it all apart :(

started out like this

Image


Image
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unjonharley
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by unjonharley » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:14 am

tatonka wrote:Here is one I am building for BM , next time I come out. Still has no brakes yet . It weighs 100lbs , the motor came off a mc bike that weighed 125lbs and could hold a rider 176lbs. So im good at 142lbs :) It goes about 15mph tops , still alot of work to do yet , and if I want to paint it I have to take it all apart :(

started out like this

Image


Image
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spacetime
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by spacetime » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:06 pm

tatonka wrote:Here is one I am building for BM , next time I come out. Still has no brakes yet . It weighs 100lbs , the motor came off a mc bike that weighed 125lbs and could hold a rider 176lbs. So im good at 142lbs :) It goes about 15mph tops , still alot of work to do yet , and if I want to paint it I have to take it all apart :(
Thanks for sharing! Can you tell us a bit more about the motor? I didn't pick up what you meant by MC bike.

Is this your first ebike? How are you powering it / what battery type and voltage?

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:21 pm

It was a razor electric dirt bike 36 volt 350-600 watt bikes , I think mine is the 500 watt . 1st bike , so lots of trial and error ,
still have to hook up chargeing port.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:25 pm

Love it!! That's cool.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Sham » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:36 am

These electric bikes are buzzing around all over the place. This guy ran into the back of the truck.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/30/p ... st-killed/

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by spacetime » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Sham wrote:These electric bikes are buzzing around all over the place. This guy ran into the back of the truck.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/30/p ... st-killed/
Yes, this is an helpful and relevant anecdote, sham. I’m curious how this furthers the discussion in this thread about ebikes at burning man.

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Sham » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:44 pm

Having seen several electric bikes scream past me on the playa at the speed of a motorcycle, I think it's extremely relevant to point this out. We have virtually allowed motorcycles as a mode of transportation on the playa, and they are going to hurt a pedestrian or kill themselves.

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Molotov » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:01 pm

If people want e-bike speeds regulated, let's regulate the speed of everything with wheels regardless of human or other powered: stand up scooters, trikes, bikes, golf carts with staff or handicap stickers, hell, even unicycles. I saw quite a few non-electric bikes hauling ass too.

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by BBadger » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:41 am

Make it so, and especially those BLM trucks. 20mph should be the maximum limit except in an emergency. Maybe even 15mph,
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by unjonharley » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 am

The step of "how to regulate " is next.. ????
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:49 am

Sham wrote:There is no question on my mind, that those bikes will be cracked down on hard this coming year. They were zooming and zipping in every direction. My guess is there will be a ban on them.
It's always been kinda cool to see the LEO's doing 80mph out beyond the trash fence...they must love it and their dust is no issue for us. They have clear visuals that nothing is in their way, so they gun it.

The trouble with the speeders on electric bikes is not that they do it where there is no danger to others, but they take their new habit of going as fast as possible in areas with LOTS of people around....THINKING they have control. Idiots. Anything can and will happen at some point speeding around where one should not.

Of course e-bike speeders should be prime targets for LEO's who are always ready to go for the low hanging fruit. I suppose eventually LEO's won't have any enforceable weed laws (one can hope) to get money and just fuck up peoples burns, and actually go after bike thieves, camp thieves, vandals, and yeah, those awful skateboard type things with gas engines, which I still see (and hear) every year.

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by bigbluedoggy » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:13 am

I will admit to being a rather sedentary (lazy) individual when it comes to physical exercise. Three years ago I bought one of the first Sondors electric bikes when the offer came up on GoFundMe (or whatever site it was). Pedaling a regular bicycle on the playa was never an easy endeavour for me, especially when I would find myself at odds with the wind. This severely limited me on the duration and extent of my explorations of the city. I had hoped that the use of the e-bike would improve my ability to get out and see more stuff, but more importantly, feel comfortable getting out to see more stuff.

The e-bike has been a game changer for me. I am now comfortable just hopping on and joining in with other campers when we want to go out and explore, or when I just want to go and do some solo exploration, especially out in deep playa. My Sondors is setup with pedal assist, which means that as long as I am peddling, it adds additional power to the drive.

The theoretical top speed of my unmodified Sondors is supposed to be about 20mph. One time while way out in deep playa in clear space, I opened it up and got up to 18mph for a stretch, but for the most part, I cruise around in tune with other bicycles around me. It's not about speed for me. It's about comfort and confidence. I'm able to go out and visit lots of deep playa art and wander the back streets of the far side of the city, which previously I would not have done.

On the cost side, my Sondors was $399 (initial offering) but I think they are now about $599 and up. There were some hidden freight fees that came up along the way as the startup venture got going. I've added the pedal assist controller, lights, a different seat, basket and some other minor things to it, so I have probably $1000 or so in it. I have a heavy cable lock and a huge Ubolt lock I rarely use.

I'd hate to see new rules appear that curtail my use of the bike. I'm not one of those people jetting down the streets at unsafe speeds. I am just a happier camper being able to more comfortably explore our city on those occasions when I actually manage to escape from our theme camp!
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Canoe » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:14 pm

People on bikes don't seem to realize how much more severe the injuries are to pedestrians (and themselves) when they collide at 10 mph vs. 5 mph. Too many bikes - all bike types - are moving above the 5 mph limit, many around at the 10 mph mark and some above - and in congested areas.
For an e-bike, that is so easy to do. But the added issue for e-bikes is the added weight, which results in a greater impact force, hence more severe injuries. And if you're running a cargo e-bike, with like three, four people underway, then mass x velocity does a more more damage. Crucial to not exceed that 5 mph.

There's no need for extra restrictions, just enforce the 5 mph rule.
Rigorously if necessary.

And the "it's only 5 mph, so one working brake is fine". It's not. In congested areas you need both brakes to ensure pedestrian safety.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Sham » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:55 pm

The sit down motorized bike rule was relaxed a few years back and it seemed to be working out fine. Then the abuses started and the overpowered ones showed up and people we screaming along on them to get where they were going fast. Like everything else, now a good thing is in jeopardy. :roll:

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by BBadger » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:45 pm

Some well publicized arrests and publicized fines, some warnings at the gate/greeter station... people will start to get the message. I'd rather have the cops watching for those people anyway.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by maladroit » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:14 am

I'm pretty sure the 5mph speed limit doesn't apply to human powered bikes on the playa. I wonder if it might apply to eBikes though. Maybe not, if Nevada code isn't fine-grained enough to understand the distinction.

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by unjonharley » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:55 pm

maladroit wrote:I'm pretty sure the 5mph speed limit doesn't apply to human powered bikes on the playa. I wonder if it might apply to eBikes though. Maybe not, if Nevada code isn't fine-grained enough to understand the distinction.
Electric assist bikes are limited to eight MPH in Salem Or.. That is about the top speed on mobility devices ..
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Meat Hunter » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:54 pm

Below is a copy of the Nevada law governing electric bike & trikes that BM DMV sent me in 2013.

I am not sure of this but I suspect that since the event is held on Federal property that BLM can set whatever speed limit for any type of vehicle that they wish and they can prohibit any type of vehicle that they wish.

Case in point; The Natchez Trace Parkway that runs through Mississippi is Federal property which is administered by the National Park Service. The speed limit from Natchez, MS to Nashville, TN is 50 mph for all of the 444 miles and trucks are not allowed.

The speed limit on the same type of MS State highway is generally 65 mph.

--------------------------

(NRS 482.0287)
ELECTRIC BICYCLES
Electric bicycles as defined by Nevada state law may operate during
the event without any sort of license. That definition is as follows:
"Electric bicycle" means a device upon which a person may ride, having
two or three wheels, or every such device generally recognized as a
bicycle that has fully operable pedals and is propelled by a small
electric engine which produces not more than 1 gross brake horsepower
and which produces not more than 750 watts final output, and:
Is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with
the ground but is not a tractor; and
Powered solely by such a small electric engine, is capable of a
maximum speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on a flat surface
while carrying an operator who weighs 170 pounds.
The term does not include a moped.

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tatonka
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:55 pm

thks all , now thanks to my Dad's old huffy , I have brakes :)


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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:57 am

I tested the bike a bit today , went 4 miles around town and the voltage only dropped to 12.25 volts per batt ( 36 volt system )
weird thing is the throttle has a power light and a low power light. The low power light comes on right away ? Not sure why , but the bike works great so far :)
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by BBadger » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:11 pm

What voltage are the batteries when the low battery light immediately turns on? After the 4 miles, I think that 12.25V would mean it's nearly 50% discharged so it should be recharged again. Not too bad riding around for 4 miles though.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:30 pm

recharged it and the batt go up to 14.00 volts but settle down to 13.25 volts and stay steady there. I next drove 10 miles and the low light came on right away. By the time I was almost at 10 miles I could tell if felt weaker in power. So got it home and checked batt. each one was at 11.25 ? Maybe its my harbor freight volt meter?
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Token » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:56 pm

What kind of batteries? pB Ni or Li ?

Spec on nominal voltage expected?

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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by BBadger » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:06 pm

Your voltmeter is probably fine, but if you're using lead-acid batteries you're over discharging them. You ought to recharge them when they reach about 12.25V, which means 50% discharge. Any more and you're reducing the life expectancy of your batteries. They shouldn't be taken below 12V if you can help it, because then it's nearly depleted.
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 pm

Absolutely true, but impractical on the playa. In reality you're gonna be out doing whatever, and you're gonna go until they die, battery life expectancy be damned.
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tatonka
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Re: eBikes and Burners who Ride them

Post by tatonka » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:47 pm

BBadger wrote:Your voltmeter is probably fine, but if you're using lead-acid batteries you're over discharging them. You ought to recharge them when they reach about 12.25V, which means 50% discharge. Any more and you're reducing the life expectancy of your batteries. They shouldn't be taken below 12V if you can help it, because then it's nearly depleted.

wow below 12v , ok I will have to get another set to charge while Im gone . They are 12 volt 15 amp , I need 3 of these and they weight about 8 lbs each. You cant put water in them , they are sealed.
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