Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

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Canoe
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Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:32 am

This off road wheel chair goes 20 miles per hour, and should have a range of 20-30 miles. It cost me about $3,000usd (mostly the price of the bikes). About 50 dollars worth of metal for the seat, and about 3 full days to design and assemble the whole wheelchair.





Needs an easier way to get in and out of the seat.
Way too much air in the tires.
Otherwise, what a place to start from.
For playa speeds, and likely for use in most areas, one e-bike is likely fine. But apart from the extra weight, having two batteries, controlers, motors should give more range while providing redundancy for getting home - more independance.

Other thoughts?
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AntiM
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by AntiM » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:01 am

Once you go from three wheels to four, you involve DMV, either as a handicap vehicle or a mutant vehicle. Both require registration. Three wheels? Have at it. Handicap registration is not terribly difficult if you have a placard from your state.

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Canoe
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:10 am

Could depend.
  • E-bike is defined at max three wheels.
  • Wheelchairs have four wheels.
  • Is this a four-wheeled e-bike (a vehicle), or a wheelchair with large wheels made from e-bike parts?
  • If someone who needs a wheelchair is in it, under the law I'd expect it to be treated as a wheelchair.
  • If I was in it, I'd expect it to be invalid as an e-bike.
But as the ATV riders knows, quads are a lot more stable & safe than the three-wheeled ATVs were.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by AntiM » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:22 am

But if you lose the argument with the DMV or the BLM, the person who needs it will be left without transport. If they need a wheelchair, they just register it as a handicap vehicle because they;d have the placard. Why make it difficult?

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Canoe
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:38 am

Because laws, in this case disability laws, usually take precedence?
Does DMV or BLM say that wheelchairs need to be registered in BRC?
If that is someone's wheelchair, what does Nevada law say. What does Federal law say.


But with those large & fat tires, that should be able to handle anything on the playa.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Ratty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:31 am

Canoe. It really is to everyones advantage at the event to play by the rules. Its not complicated. If you are genuinely disabled, get your vehicle permit. If not, make it art and apply for the license. Able bodied participants can create a pleasing 4 wheeler.
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by lucky420 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:33 pm

Canoe wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:38 am
Because laws, in this case disability laws, usually take precedence?
Does DMV or BLM say that wheelchairs need to be registered in BRC?
If that is someone's wheelchair, what does Nevada law say. What does Federal law say.


But with those large & fat tires, that should be able to handle anything on the playa.
You do not need to register a wheelchair nor a power chair with Nevada DMV
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:10 pm

Ratty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:31 am
Canoe. It really is to everyones advantage at the event to play by the rules. Its not complicated. If you are genuinely disabled, get your vehicle permit. If not, make it art and apply for the license. Able bodied participants can create a pleasing 4 wheeler.
I agree for able bodied participants. As I stated, that's exactly what I'd expect as it's clearly not an e-bike under Nevada law. The usual more-than-three-wheels kicks in.

But if you're disabled and its your mobility device, what takes precedence, law or a rule.
Someone doesn't want to be restricted to paved surfaces, and has a wheelchair with large tires allowing them to go on non-paved surfaces like non-disabled people can, under the law can you legally impede its use?
Do all wheelchairs, powered chair or mobility devices need to be registered at BRC?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Ratty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:32 pm

Canoe, I'm surprised at you. Why are you asking instead of looking it up? the DMV, (department of mutant vehicles), isn't hidden. The short answer is YES. If it is a motorized 4 wheel vehicle You need to apply for a permit for the event. If you are disabled and have adequate proof, you get to use it. It can be a wheel chair, golf cart or your private vehicle. The DMV will work with anyone that needs transportation. The only exception I know of is the length. Don't try to license a limo for your personal use. This rule keeps all the douchebags from running golf carts everywhere.

I'm sorry but Nevada and federal laws have little meaning at TTITD. There is no reason not to comply when lenient licensing is available for the disabled .

Try riding down main street in Reno naked on a bike drinking a 5th of Jack. You may meet with some resistance. Burning Man makes the rules and I'm glad they do.

Wait a darn minute. I just figured it out. If you don't require the disabled persons wheelchairs, golf carts and motorized bikes to be licensed, everyone would just bring a golf cart and say they had a broken wing. That would be horrible. Licensing is necessary. Let's keep everyone on bikes or walking.
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by lucky420 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Canoe wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:10 pm
Ratty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:31 am
Canoe. It really is to everyones advantage at the event to play by the rules. Its not complicated. If you are genuinely disabled, get your vehicle permit. If not, make it art and apply for the license. Able bodied participants can create a pleasing 4 wheeler.
I agree for able bodied participants. As I stated, that's exactly what I'd expect as it's clearly not an e-bike under Nevada law. The usual more-than-three-wheels kicks in.

But if you're disabled and its your mobility device, what takes precedence, law or a rule.
Someone doesn't want to be restricted to paved surfaces, and has a wheelchair with large tires allowing them to go on non-paved surfaces like non-disabled people can, under the law can you legally impede its use?
Do all wheelchairs, powered chair or mobility devices need to be registered at BRC?
I don’t believe youcan be legally impeded by using your wheelchair/power hair from non paved surfaces. If the mobility device fits and people w/out disabilities can go on those unpaved surfaces, no I don’t think you can be impeded. There could be weight restrictions and that may prevent a powerchair from entering a location, those chairs are heavy.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Ratty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Ok. So here is what is on my mind. We have the perfect camp. Next to us this year was a crapfest. She did everything wrong to the campmates. Then, to top it off she brought her own personal vehicle. A ugly modified motorized wheelchair. I told her its illegal she thumbed her nose. She claimed to be a veteran burner that didnt care about any silly dmv. Thats ok? So she can just toodle around and if she gets stopped she says shes disabled? The rule is there to prevent her. Im not trying to hamper any person's necessary transport. If you read the dmv rules you'll see that they work with any disabled person to get them a flag.
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:54 am

Ratty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:32 pm
Canoe, I'm surprised at you. Why are you asking instead of looking it up? the DMV, (department of mutant vehicles), isn't hidden. The short answer is YES. If it is a motorized 4 wheel vehicle You need to apply for a permit for the event. If you are disabled and have adequate proof, you get to use it. It can be a wheel chair, golf cart or your private vehicle....
I asked to see if anyone was aware of such a need, or was mentally lumping wheelchairs with vehicles. I'm surprised you didn't bother to look it up, then incorrectly bunched wheelchair in with Vehicle. Most are familiar with the need to register personal Vehicles for disability mobility use. Although I didn't expect to find there to be a need to register a wheelchair, I went and looked it up as you suggested.
https://burningman.org/event/art-performance/mutant-vehicles/vehicle-rules-and-protocols/
NOTE: Mobility Scooters and Electric Wheelchairs are allowed without licensing for persons with disabilities.

https://burningman.org/event/art-performance/mutant-vehicles/disabled-persons-vehicles/
The following vehicles do not require licensing to be used as Disabled Person’s Vehicles :
- Electric Wheelchairs
- 3 & 4 wheeled Mobility Scooters
  • The wheelchair in the OP was specifically built for that person combining fabrication with fatbike parts.
  • The person in the video clearly needs a wheelchair.
  • To that person, it is clearly a wheelchair that is much more capable than others she has had, and allows her significantly more access to what a non-disabled person has access to.
  • I know of no restriction on the size of allowable wheels for wheelchairs.
  • I know of no jurisdiction that requires a Disability Parking Permit to be able to use a wheelchair.
The issue is: what is that thing under the law?
Given the points above, I would expect it to be and be treated as a wheelchair.
Perhaps there's a maximum speed capability limit for wheelchairs?
Ratty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:32 pm
... I'm sorry but Nevada and federal laws have little meaning at TTITD. There is no reason not to comply when lenient licensing is available for the disabled . ...
Like AntiM's advice, that may be what's best.
But, ... is it aligned with applicable law(s)?


However, ...
Last edited by Canoe on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:57 am

... what I'm really curious about, is how people think a disabled person would get along with one of those on the playa.

It's stable.
Has the range, and redundancy to get about & explore BRC, and then get back to camp.
In an extreme case, an umbrella or roof may catch wind and blow it over?
Could it have a swivelling seat, for easy access to the seat from the back?

p.s.
I think an e-bike fatbike with a sidecar would be a lot more fun. Should be stable at playa speeds (5 mph), but that would depend on one's capabilities.
Super easy with an appropriate side care design to use by a rider to take someone else around.
Possibly even load a wheelchair onto an appropraitely designed sidecar? Ramp to drive right on?
Self-drive with a tiller to the handle bars? Joystick?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Canoe » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:12 am

Ratty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 pm
... Then, to top it off she brought her own personal vehicle. A ugly modified motorized wheelchair. I told her its illegal she thumbed her nose. She claimed to be a veteran burner that didnt care about any silly dmv. Thats ok? So she can just toodle around and if she gets stopped she says shes disabled? The rule is there to prevent her....
Except the rule doesn't apply to wheelchairs.
Is she disabled? Are you her doctor and know that she is NOT disabled? Are you going to confront her on the specifics of her disability? Careful there...
Authorities can be between a rock and a hard place in determining 'on the street', if someone is or isn't disabled. Hence - for vehicle parking - the need for official Disablity Parking Permits as verified by each jurisdiction.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by Ratty » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:55 am

Canoe, The woman was a self proclaimed rebel. Her reasoning for being allowed to ride it was the recent popularity of kids turtle cars. They have 4 wheels and so does she. Therefore she gets to ride. The turtles may or may not be legal. But a kid riding slowly down the street accompanied by an adult won't get in too much trouble.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
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Re: Electric Quad-wheel Fatbike wheelchair

Post by lucky420 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:23 pm

Ratty wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:55 am
Canoe, The woman was a self proclaimed rebel. Her reasoning for being allowed to ride it was the recent popularity of kids turtle cars. They have 4 wheels and so does she. Therefore she gets to ride. The turtles may or may not be legal. But a kid riding slowly down the street accompanied by an adult won't get in too much trouble.
I’m fixin on making me a turtle car this year.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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