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Post by Dustdevil » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:14 pm

The vendor pass was relatively expensive. If I remember correctly it was around $1100. Below is a partial list of what it gives you and why it was created. Naturally it gave you early entry as many vendors, including the multiple RV and trailer vendors need their vehicles and generator in place before the event opens.

GREATER, FASTER ACCESS WITH USING NEW VENDOR PASSES:

• Does not require receiver to be a registered, placed theme camp or
artist.
• Access to expedited vendor access at special vendor Gate.
• Access to Pre-placed dropoff/pickup points for on-playa deliveries/
presence
• Unlimited in and outs for services making multiple deliveries—the
pass is designed for vendors that have a need for frequent access to
the “outside worldâ€
Those who think they can and those who think they can't are both right.

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Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:30 pm

Other Moderator note:... :roll: .
sacramentogames wrote: As for comments of stepping on Larrys toes (I had someone call me on this via phone), I think Larry would embrace the idea of bringing in newbees with my intent of embracing culture. In fact I wecome his office to contact me. I will gladly drive out to meet with them. I would love to go out to BM early and donate my time and be a bigger part of the BM experience. I welcome the advise from his office or any suggestions they may have...
I was telling you this so maybe you could make the inroad to the org, so as not to get in hot water. It's up to you what you do with that gift or not... this is one of those times when "asking for forgiveness after is better than asking for blessings beforehand" isn't such a wise idea. Because waiting for his office to come to you post event may well come from his lawyers, not him. Maybe not, but I've seen far smaller fry than what you're planning get hit - hard.

As to your idea - I've been giving it some thought. I'm not necessarily opposed to it (esp. if you turned all $$$ above total costs over to someone like the local Payutes, or maybe to Gerlach/Empire to make up for the plant closing - THAT would be an extraordinary gift!), because maybe they will get the idea, and burn next year.

My only real issue (other than the profit thing, but forget that for now) is that you're giving people a false sense of the burn. Have your clients go out there and walk a moop line. Serious. That's a huge part of our **leave no trace** event, and actually connects one to the playa. Once you've done it, you know.

If you're really here to get ideas to make it real, and not just promote your thing (and/or stir up crap on this board) then listen to the ideas people throw at you. Know what I'd do? I'd run my "millionare's burn club" like a theme camp. Really. One person cooks. One person moops. One person greets. One person does security. The rest do the theme thing or not. Rotate it daily. Sure, you can have people there to wait on them hand and foot, but unless they do things that are considered "normal" by burner standards, they'll go away with some false sense of doing something, only to feel empty for the experience as they really didn't experience it.

Think back to the Bohemian Grove. This was THE rich and powerful back a century ago. They had enough money to buy small countries, and spit them out as olive seeds. But they ROUGHED it - other than the cabins (like the provided RV's, tho way not as opulent) , and the 1 meal a day provided, they were in the rough, camping. I've read accounts from Firestone, Ford, Edison, and a few others who say it had a huge impact on them - because the experience of being just like you and I, well, brought them back into reality that sometimes they forgot about.

That's what made it popular. Because it was like Burning Man to them. Dig?

You can either insulate your clients or immerse them. You insulate them they will walk away like, well, that was cute, but nothing spectacular, what was the point? and all of us look like idjits. You immerse them, MAKE them BE burners (and I don't care if they spend $900 or $90K) you will make burners of them. That's a good thing.

And yeah, they are welcome at the kantina for good vodka shots and cheap Sovietski schlock. Hell, they might even get interrogated. Just don't expect for them to be treated special - they are burners, like anyone else. Id they can't handle that, then, hell, they shouldn't be out there in the first place.

As someone once said, We are Equal-Opportunity Destroyers...

bbs


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i know this first hand.

Post by H.G.Crosby » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:36 pm

"do you know who you just had a cocktail with?"

"who, those two guys? they're really cool."

"thats Larry & Serge"

"who?"




you never know who you'll run into out on the playa, i myself have a raw kodak negative of the playa chicken, stashed away in a safe deposit box as proof. :wink:
Once I noticed I was on fire, I decided to relax and enjoy the fall™

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Post by sacramentogames » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:30 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Other Moderator note:... :roll: .
sacramentogames wrote: As for comments of stepping on Larrys toes (I had someone call me on this via phone), I think Larry would embrace the idea of bringing in newbees with my intent of embracing culture. In fact I wecome his office to contact me. I will gladly drive out to meet with them. I would love to go out to BM early and donate my time and be a bigger part of the BM experience. I welcome the advise from his office or any suggestions they may have...
I was telling you this so maybe you could make the inroad to the org, so as not to get in hot water. It's up to you what you do with that gift or not... this is one of those times when "asking for forgiveness after is better than asking for blessings beforehand" isn't such a wise idea. Because waiting for his office to come to you post event may well come from his lawyers, not him. Maybe not, but I've seen far smaller fry than what you're planning get hit - hard.

As to your idea - I've been giving it some thought. I'm not necessarily opposed to it (esp. if you turned all $$$ above total costs over to someone like the local Payutes, or maybe to Gerlach/Empire to make up for the plant closing - THAT would be an extraordinary gift!), because maybe they will get the idea, and burn next year.

My only real issue (other than the profit thing, but forget that for now) is that you're giving people a false sense of the burn. Have your clients go out there and walk a moop line. Serious. That's a huge part of our **leave no trace** event, and actually connects one to the playa. Once you've done it, you know.

If you're really here to get ideas to make it real, and not just promote your thing (and/or stir up crap on this board) then listen to the ideas people throw at you. Know what I'd do? I'd run my "millionare's burn club" like a theme camp. Really. One person cooks. One person moops. One person greets. One person does security. The rest do the theme thing or not. Rotate it daily. Sure, you can have people there to wait on them hand and foot, but unless they do things that are considered "normal" by burner standards, they'll go away with some false sense of doing something, only to feel empty for the experience as they really didn't experience it.

Think back to the Bohemian Grove. This was THE rich and powerful back a century ago. They had enough money to buy small countries, and spit them out as olive seeds. But they ROUGHED it - other than the cabins (like the provided RV's, tho way not as opulent) , and the 1 meal a day provided, they were in the rough, camping. I've read accounts from Firestone, Ford, Edison, and a few others who say it had a huge impact on them - because the experience of being just like you and I, well, brought them back into reality that sometimes they forgot about.

That's what made it popular. Because it was like Burning Man to them. Dig?

You can either insulate your clients or immerse them. You insulate them they will walk away like, well, that was cute, but nothing spectacular, what was the point? and all of us look like idjits. You immerse them, MAKE them BE burners (and I don't care if they spend $900 or $90K) you will make burners of them. That's a good thing.

And yeah, they are welcome at the kantina for good vodka shots and cheap Sovietski schlock. Hell, they might even get interrogated. Just don't expect for them to be treated special - they are burners, like anyone else. Id they can't handle that, then, hell, they shouldn't be out there in the first place.

As someone once said, We are Equal-Opportunity Destroyers...

bbs

Thank you for your comment. You bring up a great suggestion and I will be changing in my ad. Even though my clients may leave early, there is no reason why I can't take them out on the playa and clean MOOP for a while. This should be part of the experience and culture that I bring to newbees.

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Post by lucky420 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:47 pm

my daughter and I enjoyed going out fairly early in the mornings on moop patrol with our bikes. Sometimes you even find treasures...

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Post by unjonharley » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:31 pm

lucky420 wrote:my daughter and I enjoyed going out fairly early in the mornings on moop patrol with our bikes. Sometimes you even find treasures...
I was out early one morning mooping.. This poor hangover spoke to me.. So I stopped to talk.. Talked extra loud, smiled and laughed loudy.. He took it for a while.. Then said.." Could you try not to be so happy? "

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Post by sacramentogames » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:36 pm

I just want you all to know that I did not purchase 60 tickets. I am only willing to sell one of the packages on Ebay. When one sells, I will remove the other two auctions. I do have up to 30 tickets and if I have any left over I will sell them to others for what I paid for them without profit. I also want to throw out there I paid the $320 for each ticket. I knew that if I bought from any of the other tiers (even for myself), it would have created a huge uproar. (not that what I am doing hasn't already created an uproar)

Last, I am hoping to sell the shuttle service over the helicopter service. If the shuttle has space left, we will welcome any leftover seats free to any burners who will need a ride from Reno, NV. It would be nice to have fellow burners give their input while we educate our newbies behind the culture and history of Burning Man.

I hope that with this new experience that I am providing, if there was ever a time that this could be pulled off right, this will be the year. If this adventure fails to instill into the newbies culture and history, then this failure should be plastered all over this site as a learning experience for anyone else who tries to do this again in the future.

I will also be exposing others who provide some of the same services who can care less about the history and culture of BM. I think they need to step it up and keep the Burning Man Spirit alive. I understand everyone's interpretations are different from person to person and I expect to change and grow with the festival.

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Post by sacramentogames » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:30 pm

Once again I am giving everyone a stick to swing at the pinata.

I keep getting challenged about whether I have ever been to burning man and have been told I am a liar. I have decided to reveal a picture of myself. I put my picture up on one of my auctions and yes, I will wear the same outfit again on the first day of BM so you all know who I am. I will have a case of warm Paps Blue Ribbon if anyone would like to have a drink.

I have also removed a couple pictures that a fellow burner asked me to remove.

Feel free to voice your comments.

I am thinking of adding this to my ad and I want your opinion before I add it.

Our company is only interested in working with clients that are prepared to learn the history and culture of Burning Man. There will be requirements that everyone in your party needs to understand before you consider our services. We will require every person to join in on traditions on the playa. This will include a minimum of two hours (per person) helping others build their camps. They must be willing to get dirty and help others. This is a part of the Burning Man experience. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTTS! Second they must have outfits. The weirder the better! Another requirement is every person will be asked the 10 principles and what it means to them. They must be willing to submit this in writing. Every person in the group will also be required to read the first timers guide on burningman.com. Towards the end of your stay at Burning Man, each member in your party will be required to do 2 hours of MOOP patrol. These requirements are non-negotiable. As part of the agreement, an additional deposit of $200 per person will be required to make sure everyone participates in these requirements. If your group fully participates, this deposit will be returned. If your group does not participate and this is just a frat party, I will donate your deposit to one of the themed camps or art projects who will love to use the money for next years event. We are here to provide an "experience" with history and culture.

Your thoughts?

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Post by AntiM » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:47 pm

I like the concept, the write up is a but rough. Let me think about it and I'll do a suggested write up for you.

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Post by sacramentogames » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:53 pm

AntiM wrote:I like the concept, the write up is a but rough. Let me think about it and I'll do a suggested write up for you.
Thank you. I appreciate it

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Post by Major Krash » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:45 pm

sacramentogames wrote:...Last, I am hoping to sell the shuttle service over the helicopter service. If the shuttle has space left, we will welcome any leftover seats free to any burners who will need a ride from Reno, NV
one idea might be find out where the International Burners (who fly in, and do not have a vehicle) meet to hopefully find rides in. This is a universally appreciated gift by all, even those that do not need it....a good way to give back to the Community.

edit; also, perhaps start a new thread, for positive suggestions for your effort...that way, this thread will live or die on it's own merits, without having new suggestions opening up the old thread...unless you want that.

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Post by Sic Pup » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:49 pm

sacramentogames wrote: As part of the agreement, an additional deposit of $200 per person will be required to make sure everyone participates in these requirements.

Your thoughts?
Someone shelling out $9.5k per head who might be disinclined to play well with others is not going to bat an eyelash at $200 to buy their way out.

I'd be surprised if you did not hear from Borg (or those they may have on retainer) about using those photos to promote a commercial endeavor.

Frankly, you're repeated request for info under the guise of making your scheme more palatable to those outraged is growing tiresome. To be honest, your lack of homework on the very basics of BM and the playa does not bode well for whatever logistical arrangements you're contemplating/already made.
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Post by JStep » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:38 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
I am thinking of adding this to my ad and I want your opinion before I add it.

Our company is only interested in working with clients that are prepared to learn the history and culture of Burning Man. There will be requirements that everyone in your party needs to understand before you consider our services. We will require every person to join in on traditions on the playa. This will include a minimum of two hours (per person) helping others build their camps. They must be willing to get dirty and help others. This is a part of the Burning Man experience. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTTS! Second they must have outfits. The weirder the better! Another requirement is every person will be asked the 10 principles and what it means to them. They must be willing to submit this in writing. Every person in the group will also be required to read the first timers guide on burningman.com. Towards the end of your stay at Burning Man, each member in your party will be required to do 2 hours of MOOP patrol. These requirements are non-negotiable. As part of the agreement, an additional deposit of $200 per person will be required to make sure everyone participates in these requirements. If your group fully participates, this deposit will be returned. If your group does not participate and this is just a frat party, I will donate your deposit to one of the themed camps or art projects who will love to use the money for next years event. We are here to provide an "experience" with history and culture.

Your thoughts?
Okay, hear me out, but... I'm not even sure where I'm going with this as I start it so I will be hearing me out as well...

I initially thought you must be full of BS based on "forgetting" the MOOP thing even though you say you've been to BM several years, not to even mention how completely outside of the spirit of BM (as I and apparently many others see it) your plan is.

So, Eric vouches for your sincerity, and others point out that (however weird it seems to me) it is apparently not that uncommon that someone could go to BM "several" times and still be clueless about the basic nomenclature (and again, not even delving into the whole idea behind the principles and spirit of the thing.)

So at the start of this whole weird debate, I see a dichotomy between the perceived spirit of the event, as described by the ten principles VS what appears to be your pre-packaged commercial spectator event for purchase.

I'm having a really bizarre time reconciling these into the compromise you describe, wherein customers will pay $95,000+ to go to Burning Man and then be contractually obligated to perform MOOP patrols, mandatory costumes and giving the gift of their time to their fellow burners a la camp set up duties.

It sounds to me like you're taking a very bad idea (bad idea from the perspective of BM, good idea if you're only considering the potential to make money off of other peoples efforts) and making it even worse. Now you've got a situation where your private company is going to exploit BM culture for profit (whitewashed with a lot of feel-good PR about exposing privileged execs to BM culture) while making a contractual effort to commodify the gifting culture, self-expression and community service.

I'm really not trying to be harsh, I know this sounds very condemning. Fellow ePlayans: have I brainwashed myself with BM propaganda regarding the spirit of the event? Am I way off base here? I really want to know... But, the thought occurs to me that I will not really know the answers to these questions until after my first burn. (This is what makes me so undecided about my interpretation/opinion of this issue; I'm a virgin but I also know that I'm pretty keen on picking up the essence of what BM is about given my past immersion in counter cultural movements.)
~JStep
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Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:07 pm

JStep wrote:So, Eric vouches for your sincerity, and others point out that (however weird it seems to me) it is apparently not that uncommon that someone could go to BM "several" times and still be clueless about the basic nomenclature (and again, not even delving into the whole idea behind the principles and spirit of the thing.)

(extraction)

I'm really not trying to be harsh, I know this sounds very condemning. Fellow ePlayans: have I brainwashed myself with BM propaganda regarding the spirit of the event? Am I way off base here? I really want to know... But, the thought occurs to me that I will not really know the answers to these questions until after my first burn. (This is what makes me so undecided about my interpretation/opinion of this issue; I'm a virgin but I also know that I'm pretty keen on picking up the essence of what BM is about given my past immersion in counter cultural movements.)
This board is a sub-culture within burningman culture. So are the various tribes on tribe.net. There are people who've been going longer than I have and have never read the main site. (Although, I think the net drove the initial growth--or maybe secondary--once it moved to the BRP.) What this particular slice of the culture promotes is reading the survival guide, the virgin's guide, participating, doing something past simply raves, and being snarky on-line. Once you get out there spend an hour or two doing a very informal (i.e. no actual data collected, just questions asked) sociological survey. Have they read the site, the survival guide, why are they here, how long have they been coming, we can think up plenty. I don't think it's an accident that people on this board come back from the event and tell us that they were a "stealth virgin." In comparison to a lot of people who go they are positively steeped in advice, knowledge and ideas.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by Eric » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:48 pm

If you walk up to a hundred random Burners on the playa & ask them what the 10 Principles are, I bet you get less than 10% who know them all*

They're a guide, an ideal- they are not rules or commandments (other than Leave No Trace, but not everyone even follows that, sadly). You can have a great time at the event without even knowing they exist, but having them is that it gives a common base for the community to grow on, even if most people don't know much more than gifting, radical self-reliance (however they interpret that), wear costumes and don't sell stuff on the playa.







*random statistic just made up to emphasize a point
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Post by JStep » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:24 pm

Thanks Eric and Fishy, I'm getting a sort of culturally analogous idea of BM being sort of like Grateful Dead lot VS Rainbow land. (I bet that analogy makes a lot of people nauseous, which could be partly my point!)

So, the conclusion I come to based on these replies is that I am not off base, I am right on, but the reality of TTITD is such that my being pretty accurate in my assessment is pragmatically moot. The commodification of the event, and even the principles of the event, are inevitable and it is up to us to try to ameliorate this exploitation as much as possible so as to preserve some semblance of the spirit of BM.

Thus, Kevin is a cynical profiteer seeking to create a serviceable justification for his profit driven exploitation of the spirit of the event, but he's not unique and we need to be ready to try to out-incorporate those like him into the culture. I can live with that.

My worry that the momentum will be with the Kevins of the world is idealistic and unneeded. If BM becomes the tourist destination of the privileged and I never see the true spirit of the event due to my late-arrival to the "party"... well, c'est la vie.

I may be going to hell in a bucket babe, but at least I'm enjoying the ride.
~JStep
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http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

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Post by Eric » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:38 pm

JStep wrote:Thus, Kevin is a cynical profiteer seeking to create a serviceable justification for his profit driven exploitation of the spirit of the event, but he's not unique and we need to be ready to try to out-incorporate those like him into the culture. I can live with that.
That also sums up why I may be working with him. At least he's trying to introduce his clients to the culture, I would hazard a guess that not everyone does.
I never see the true spirit of the event due to my late-arrival to the "party"... well, c'est la vie.
When I started going in 2003 I was told "the best years were past" by some people. I know people who stopped going when the population crossed 10,000- they wanted to get away, not have the "crowds".

I also have a close friend who went for the first time last year, and he's talked about non-stop since & is already making his plans for this year.

If you have fun you saw the "true spirit". All the rest is interpretation.
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

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Post by Elorrum » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:01 pm

oh well, here goes:
I don't like this. This is a plan for profiting off of Burning Man in the most spectacular way. $95,000.00. and then, really? ask them to pick up moop? You are trying to sell what is free to all attendees, and that is the spirit of the thing. You think someone who paid 95,000 for a vacation is someone willing to accept "requirements" that qualify easily as services they have super over paid for already. spirit of the thing or not.
This is about visiting a freak show, or a circus, have a ball, see it all, all from the comforts of your own special bubble. Cirque de Vampires comes to mind.
IF every other person driving a real nice rented R.V. goes over and tells them what they spent in comparison for the experience, don't you think these suckers will be pissed off? and not want to monitor the trampoline?

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Post by curiousgnate » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:52 pm

I am seriously in awe that people are helping this guy. He says he is taking into account all that we have said and applying that to HIS EBAY POST TO CHARGE PEOPLE $95,000 TO SPECTATE AT BURNINGMAN! There is really nothing that he can say that should get your help. Eric I know you are considering helping him I hope you don't. I know I said you would be doing a good thing, but the more I think about it I don't. This really is ridiculous. He has three different EBAY POSTS to capture some rich motha fuckers money and give them an experience that is not going to be what I and yes I know that this is me think will bring them a good burningman experience. ohhhhhhh one offers a trampoline. Kevin needs to burn again and think about what he is experiencing after all of this and then get back next year and see if this is something he really wants to do. wowzers. I know I have been eating the popcorn and just sitting back but fuck that. why help in this situation. to save the burn for 10 rich mothafuckers? really? to encourage this kind of bullshit that while avoidable is going to increase over the years? I know burningman is changing and I am all good with that. My first burn was in 97, then 2003 and then the last 3 years. It has changed it's ok. but this is not something we should help with, this is something we should shut the fuck down!
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Post by Stickygreen » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:58 am

JStep wrote: My worry that the momentum will be with the Kevins of the world is idealistic and unneeded. If BM becomes the tourist destination of the privileged and I never see the true spirit of the event due to my late-arrival to the "party"... well, c'est la vie.
BM is already a major tourist destination, why do you think there is about a dozen movies on the place, most major news agencies have covered the event, even CNN was there last year... BM was even in American RV magazine as one of the top ten destinations in America a few years ago.

The flood gates of tourists were opened long ago, and the Kevins of the world have not entered en mass, cause BM isn't all glitz and glamour, it's hot dirty and rude. Most rich people don't want to shell out $100,000 for that. Some do, and I've camped with them in the past, there burn is WAY different than mine, but hey whatever makes he party go thump thump thump......
)'(

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Re: bruningman

Post by flipit » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:08 am

I know online postings aren't held to the same standard but..
sacramentogames wrote: I have listened to many analize the costs and its funny to see how far off people actually are.
Very different meaning than analyze. Very different. :wink:

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Post by JStep » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:27 am

Stickygreen wrote:
JStep wrote: My worry that the momentum will be with the Kevins of the world is idealistic and unneeded. If BM becomes the tourist destination of the privileged and I never see the true spirit of the event due to my late-arrival to the "party"... well, c'est la vie.
BM is already a major tourist destination, why do you think there is about a dozen movies on the place, most major news agencies have covered the event, even CNN was there last year... BM was even in American RV magazine as one of the top ten destinations in America a few years ago.

The flood gates of tourists were opened long ago, and the Kevins of the world have not entered en mass, cause BM isn't all glitz and glamour, it's hot dirty and rude. Most rich people don't want to shell out $100,000 for that. Some do, and I've camped with them in the past, there burn is WAY different than mine, but hey whatever makes he party go thump thump thump......
By tourist destination I don't meant tourist destination, I mean tourist destination.
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

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gyre
Posts: 15457
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Post by gyre » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:42 am

Costumes are not required.
Wearing them except for special projects is a new concept.
It is useful for those not wanting to be recognized, a rare convenience for those well known.
Personally, most of the "famous" people I see on tv, I have no clue about at all.
I still can't figure out what a 'schnookie' is.
Should I know?

And no one asked me to sign on to the ten principles.
New people should be exposed to them though, so they can make their own decisions about the inherent contradictions.

And yes, people can attend and miss the way it all works, by chance or poor planning, even if they have heard about it for years.


And the tour doesn't make the tourist.
The curious will still be curious.

These packets only get offensive when a fake theme and event is all canned for a group, and that has been done.

Frankly, a planner will do better if people have a chance at the real thing.
They should be warned of the stress and bad turns that can happen even with the best plans.
It is simply a stressful event.
Stress and choices are part of the psychology creating the experience, a known phenomenon.
But that can be done even with a cushy camp, if you get out and explore, at least the way I do it.


I suppose I should get around to reading the survival guide.

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unjonharley
Posts: 10382
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:58 am

Hey wait a sec,

Who that can afford a 100 grand is going to be poking around on Ebay..

Who among that don't already own there own 3/4 mill RV..

Just add one helper/butler and they have there own..

This fucking troll has Eplaya jumping through some big hoops.

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AntiM
Moderator
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West
Contact:

Post by AntiM » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:34 am

I am a firm believer in education, so if this is going to happen, may as well turn it into a learning experience. Plenty of folks pay good money to go on working vacations, but holding a deposit ransom probably wouldn't make a difference.

So, while I feel somewhat like I am selling out, I feel strongly that a difference can be made. I mean, I have stood in the sidelines at Critical Tits and explained to a rude guy what the ride was all about. He thought for a moment, put his camera away, and began shouting "You're all beautiful! Go Goddesses, go!" rather than "sexy mama" type stuff. Every little bit helps. Paid for camps have been around for a long time, may as well pitch in and make burners of them.

I recommend having copies of Gifting It or Beyond Black Rock, or other great films to share with your clients. Heck, throw in a Gifting It DVD as part of the package.
Burning Man is a fully participatory event; one does not simply go to Burning Man, one goes and makes Burning Man happen. No spectators is the motto.
This experience is intended to provide a platform for you to participate in Burning Man, to shed your role as an audience member. "Frat boy" party types are not welcome, this is not the adventure for you.


Our company is only interested in working with clients that are prepared to learn the history and culture of Burning Man. There will be requirements that everyone in your party needs to understand before you consider our services. We will require every person to join in on traditions on the playa.
This will include a minimum of two hours (per person) helping others build their camps or art project. They must be willing to get dirty and help others. Or they may sign up for volunteer shifts; these opportunities are varied and are found at Playa Info Volunteer resource Desk.
The second requirement is every person will go over the 10 principles and discuss what each means to them. This will be a group discussion, to be scheduled early in the experience, or during the ride out.
Every person in the group will also be required to read the first timers guide on burningman.com and the Survival Guide.
Towards the end of your stay at Burning Man, each member in your party will be required to do 2 hours of MOOP patrol. This is asked of every participant.

Costumes are not required, but can make the experience much more interesting. Feel free to bring interesting and fun outfits to wear or to share. No feathers or glitter please, as they shed and you will have to pick up every tiny piece you drop.

sacramentogames
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:17 am

Post by sacramentogames » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:39 am

First, I want to thank everyone for feedback both positive and negative. I can only learn and grow from this experience from your feedback.

For those of you who think I am making a killing with my prices, you really need to put batteries in your calculator. Do you really think I am making $50,000? . Let me sit back and chuckle at your figures. To do this "right" is very costly and you have no idea the hidden costs. I'm going to throw you a bone on hidden costs; Ebay ad "Based on your Buy It Now price, you will be charged a Final Value Fee of $1,943.00 if your item sells", also it is around another $1,000 for Paypal. Costs of getting me and my staff in $2560. Vendor pass, I think is about $1000. Lodging, payroll, and travel need to be figured in for both our staff and clients. Just some hidden costs for you to think about.

I did sit down this week and meet with one of your fellow burners and I did open my books. I will withhold his name for now so you don't bombard him with emails. Funny that he was very skeptical of my ideas but by the and of dinner he had a good idea of what I was doing and is now welcoming it with open arms.

I will make time to meet with Eric soon and yes, my books and business plan will be exposed to him and his thoughts. If you think that Eric is moving over to the dark side, let me sit back and chuckle some more. I have done my research on Eric and I think he is perfect for this venture. Eric will not be persuaded and he will not candy coat it for you. If you look back at our conversations he and I do not see eye to eye. I want him to be honest in all his observation and report to everyone on eplaya for thoughts. Do you really think if he sees me driving a train over the cliff, he won't be here to point it out and expose it all over eplaya? A true burner that is a good writer will look at me like I'm nuts but be open to see what happens. He brings history, culture and excellent writing skills to the table.

I am arranging to be there with my team a week early to put our time in to help with setup with other main camps. I would like to put our time in to build BRC. If you have a camp and need a set of arms, please contact me.

If you still question my integrity or intent, lets wait until after I meet with Eric before you make your final conclusion. This topic should have come up many years ago and exposing others with these same concepts.

I want to point out a few other things you have come accustom to but these companies SERIOUSLY profit from:

Toilets (and related costs): $661,000
Rental Equipment (heavy machinery, portable buildings, staff radio gear, cars and trucks) $694,000
Materials and Supplies (shade structures, signage, lighting, décor, cleaning supplies, photography, archiving) $104,000
Cost of Goods for Ice, Café and Merch sales $273,000
Watering for dust abatement (equipment rental, contractor services) $214,000
Ticket sales/processing/printing fees paid to outside ticketing firm $349,000
Payroll $2,858,000 (You mean they get paid to put on Burning Man; wait.....thats right, this is a FESTIVAL!)
Meals and Food (meetings, playa commissary, non travel) $639,000

I can sit here all day and point out the profiteers. A lot of these employees listed above work 14 plus hours a day to make some cash to provide for their families. They are so exhausted at the end of the day of work they do not have the time to enjoy burning man.

Like I said before I am here to learn from you and make this better for everyone. So far, it seems to me through all of your hate, there is only one way to burn, YOUR WAY. I hope you all will welcome all burners and newbies with open arms.

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CapSmashy
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0

Post by CapSmashy » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:22 pm

HEY hey hey....

I demand a 10% royalty. I had this idea last year. :lol:

sacramentogames
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:17 am

Post by sacramentogames » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:40 pm

unjonharley wrote:Hey wait a sec,

Who that can afford a 100 grand is going to be poking around on Ebay..

Who among that don't already own there own 3/4 mill RV..

Just add one helper/butler and they have there own..

This fucking troll has Eplaya jumping through some big hoops.

Im glad I keep things interesting here on the eplaya. What you say is very plausible and you are right, there are some people who have RVs and yes they have drivers bring them into BRC but this is not my clientele. Sounds like you have a beef with anyone who is not pitching a tent.

My clients will be flying in from afar. They can't bring an RV on their flight.

As for the continued name calling. Name calling derives from an uneducated person who cannot articulate his frustration then resorts to hateful words. Lets try to act like grownups and be respectful to one another. There are better means of communication.

Rilopie
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:18 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Location: Sacramento

Post by Rilopie » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:18 pm

I know this is straying form the point, but I'm still wondering how the hell Elk Grove School district could afford this... When I was in high school in sac teachers were being left go left and right and our art department had to start a recycling program to afford art supplies.

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unjonharley
Posts: 10382
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:24 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Hey wait a sec,

Who that can afford a 100 grand is going to be poking around on Ebay..

Who among that don't already own there own 3/4 mill RV..

Just add one helper/butler and they have there own..

This fucking troll has Eplaya jumping through some big hoops.

Im glad I keep things interesting here on the eplaya. What you say is very plausible and you are right, there are some people who have RVs and yes they have drivers bring them into BRC but this is not my clientele. Sounds like you have a beef with anyone who is not pitching a tent.

My clients will be flying in from afar. They can't bring an RV on their flight.

As for the continued name calling. Name calling derives from an uneducated person who cannot articulate his frustration then resorts to hateful words. Lets try to act like grownups and be respectful to one another. There are better means of communication.
I have no problem how anyone injoys Burning Man..

Having work for the very well to do.. I say Attracting anyone in that stat on Ebay (fuck this makes me laugh)

How abut you Pm me when you catch a sucker in your pipe dreamm..

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