New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Cheyenne
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Cheyenne » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:29 pm

W -T -F ????? Good job I retrieved my copy of JRS from the spam folder...

David booked the RV from Road Bear 2 weeks ago for 2012 and paid a $335 deposit...

I think we will be registering for the Christmas tickets.... coming from UK again requires mucho pennies so I want to make sure we can get started and then book the flights in the January sales...

I suspect we will be pretty much gauranteed a ticket if we apply early.... I hope...

That member of the org that was interviewed sounded like she was coming accross as a bit laize Fair about it all... as if the major issues people have brought to bear wouldn't happen
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Sola Gangsta
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:30 pm

I seriously doubt that there is a ticket problem at all and that anyone who wants one will be able to get one.

I strongly suspect that this is about generating hysteria which will be great for ticket sales.

Nevada loves the influx of cash into the desert and after paying homage to the environmental gods will try to get as many sales of tickets as possible. This is the land of the casino's folks. Is it any wonder there is a lottery?

It's like clicking on the banner ad in your web browser saying you've won and thinking you're the only one who succeeded.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by storkinsj1 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:32 pm

@paloma8 Holy shit yeah - forgot to mention what a BAD idea keeping all the credit cards is! Just issue back Identifiers so that we can use them to make the purchases..

That's if we move forward with this crazy lottery deal.
-G

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:38 pm

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sandgoddess
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by sandgoddess » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:41 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:@trilobyte...My god man, how do you keep all that shit straight?
ps...i know for a fact that someone who is sleeping with larry's cat surmised through tea leaves that this is all a big ploy to increase eplaya readership...
First 10,000 to post on eplaya are automatically declared winners in the lottery.
** Just for shit's and giggle's. I think I'll go post that on Facebook. :twisted:
Everything's going to be ok. Maybe. Pass it on.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:44 pm

Cheyenne wrote:
I suspect we will be pretty much gauranteed a ticket if we apply early.... I hope...
No.. No first come first serve.. Your name/number go's in a basket. You say which basket by the tier you are willing to pay on. Then,, If your number is drawn.. Your credit card is billed.. You are then sent a conformation that you have bought a ticket. Your ticket will be sent to you later in the year.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by sandgoddess » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:47 pm

storkinsj1 wrote: That's if we move forward with this crazy lottery deal.
-G
Who's "we "??
Burning Man is not a Democracy.
Really. :shock:
Everything's going to be ok. Maybe. Pass it on.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:48 pm

First 10,000 to post on eplaya are automatically declared winners in the lottery.
** Just for shit's and giggle's. I think I'll go post that on Facebook. :twisted:

you are fucking brilliant...

so it is written...
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by sandgoddess » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:08 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
First 10,000 to post on eplaya are automatically declared winners in the lottery.
** Just for shit's and giggle's. I think I'll go post that on Facebook. :twisted:
you are fucking brilliant...
so it is written...
*curtsy* Why, thank you, kind Sir. It's my job to keep shit storms stirred up.
Everything's going to be ok. Maybe. Pass it on.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Jwen » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:20 pm

My camp is so fucked if I do not get a ticket. Mama James will not be there to control the hippies. So fucked. Failed

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by sandfly » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:23 pm

I expect there will appear to be a massively increased market for the tickets this year. I've only bought one ticket in the past, but cannot see why I (and everyone else) would not buy the maximum, for the two obvious reasons:
#1 -- If others of my group don't win the lottery, I can sell them tickets.
#2 -- Tickets will re-sell for a profit, so there's no reason not to buy all I can.

For those same reasons, I assume scalpers will now be using their networks to buy as many tickets as they can. And, using networks and being purely profit motivated, they are likely to pick up a big percentage of the lowest price tickets.

I really like the idea of people who bought this year getting priority to buy next year. This would substantially reduce the number of tickets available for gaming (scalpers, etc.). At least one of the ice skating tours has used this successfully for years. This should not be particularly difficult for BMC,

My preferred solution would actually be free-market, with the profit going to BMC (which I like more than I like scalpers). There's a price point at which the tickets won't sell out. I'd like BMC to set up a pricing system that would result in them never running out of tickets. They should stop selling tickets at the bargain basement prices, and use some of that extra money to empower their low-income reduced price option. The actual low-priced tickets under the current system will largely be wasted on people who can easily afford whatever the top price is. The way it has sorta worked in the past, with the servers crashing every year, is that only low income people have the incentive to put up with the hassle, so most of the low income tickets went to people who benefited from them.

I feel that the soul of Burning Man is enhanced much more by the people who haven't much money than by the people [a] with massive RV's (owned, or rented for thousands of dollars) cordoning off their areas and running their generators 24/7, or coming in for a day or overnight on buses then leaving. The "no spectators" idea has never really been true, but these luxury spectators do really add a sense of our being in a zoo.

I am also hereby publicly complaining (because ...? Just because.) about the uncertainty in the announcement, as to how the bidding will work. If I agree to pay the highest price, does that mean I'm only included in the lottery at the highest price, or will this be more like an eBay auction, where my bid will go in at each tier until my limit is reached? The latter would seem to create a risk that I won't be able to get a ticket, so I'll want to enter (via friends, etc.) multiple times. On the other hand, if those who agree to pay higher prices get to share in a chance to get low-priced tickets, doesn't that defeat the purpose of low-priced tickets? If BMC really doesn't know what they're planning to do about this, they shouldn't have made any announcement. If they do know what they are planning, they should have told us.

In the immortal words of Hans Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this."

:?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:26 pm

Jwen wrote:My camp is so fucked if I do not get a ticket. Mama James will not be there to control the hippies. So fucked. Failed
This is just a technique to generate ticket sales. You probably have a 98% chance of winning based upon the fact that ticket sales sold out July 25th last year for the first time. The other 2% will have to find scalped tickets.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by uncle sticky » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:29 pm

50,000 plus tickets. More than have ever attended the event, up to last year. Ignoring the panic over sell out, how many people really wanted to go but couldn't? Let's review: 50,000 plus tickets. Never sold out before. How big is the real demand? How many people really want to go, year after year, if you weed out the clowns who thought this would be the last year and "needed" to finally go? There might be a few hundred, maybe 1000, who actually can't get tickets. Did you follow the ticket pricing curve this year? I did. I saw tickets go up to over $1000 per immediately following the sell out, then drop all the way down to $100 by the time the event started. Quit whining, quit spinning around in circles like a fucking chicken, quit acting like a stupid fucker who doesn't understand the most basic laws of economics. There are plenty of tickets for those who have a little patience and a little sense. High priced tickets for spinning around sparkly ponies, which is good.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by simoneski » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:42 pm

As mentioned in previous posts: Scalpers are organized and will probably end up with more tickets than ever with this lame lottery idea. For that matter, anyone wanting to stack the lottery in their favor could ask friends and family not planning to go to BRC to enter the lottery for them,to increase their odds of getting a ticket. I might just try that, or save myself the hassle and just buy early from a scalper.
Organizers get with the program, it is not rocket science! Sell tickets like the airlines: Name on the ticket, non-transferrable, ID required for entrance!!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by miracle.thunderbolt » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:42 pm

I believe the lottery system should apply to ANYONE WHO HAD NEVER BEEN TO BURNING MAN. Or at least to ANYONE WHO HASN'T BEEN TO BURNING MAN IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. That is what I feel is fair. I am new to the lottery system, and I know it's been the case for concerts (e.g. Madonna) with high demand. I can't say that it would be the case for Burning Man. Does BMORG keep a database of people who have attended before? :mrgreen:

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:43 pm

c'mon baby, papa needs a new utilikilt...
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by burntjburn » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:44 pm

I wonder if thought has been given to doing the usual online rush for the first tier or two and then holding several reverse auctions for remaining tickets. The reverse auction has the benefit from a money/scalper standpoint of allocating more to BM and less to scalpers. Google did this quite well for its IPO. A reverse auction also has the effect of encouraging people to pay what they can afford rather than seeking the cheapest ticket possible. I understand this has been a thought behind the pricing tiers of years past.

The other concern I have is for multi-person camps that aren't official theme camps. A lottery will almost certainly cut into the numbers who are able to participate in a given year.

I can see the concern with scalpers now that the number wanting to go will almost certainly exceed again the number of slots available. Given that anyone who wanted to go in years past had to pay the price asked by BM, a reverse auction seems the way to go in my mind. Until the final auction, scalpers will have to consider the cost of having to tie up funds and possible discounting versus bid size so I think (not being a mathemetician) they will bid less. For the final auction I imagine the clearing bid might be quite high.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by eddieperu » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:48 pm

doesnt sound like a good idea, why not all tickets are the same price, (besides the low income ones), to avoid everyone going online a the same time...?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by EspressoDude » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:51 pm

wow 150 new members on eplaya since JRS came out with the 'news'......

lots of new thoughts or new people saying the same thing...it's like..
























OCCUPY EPLAYA
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by milkyway87 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:53 pm

let's wait to hear what the rest of the details are.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:54 pm

burntjburn wrote:I wonder if thought has been given to doing the usual online rush for the first tier or two and then holding several reverse auctions for remaining tickets. The reverse auction has the benefit from a money/scalper standpoint of allocating more to BM and less to scalpers. Google did this quite well for its IPO. A reverse auction also has the effect of encouraging people to pay what they can afford rather than seeking the cheapest ticket possible. I understand this has been a thought behind the pricing tiers of years past.

The other concern I have is for multi-person camps that aren't official theme camps. A lottery will almost certainly cut into the numbers who are able to participate in a given year.

I can see the concern with scalpers now that the number wanting to go will almost certainly exceed again the number of slots available. Given that anyone who wanted to go in years past had to pay the price asked by BM, a reverse auction seems the way to go in my mind. Until the final auction, scalpers will have to consider the cost of having to tie up funds and possible discounting versus bid size so I think (not being a mathemetician) they will bid less. For the final auction I imagine the clearing bid might be quite high.
I think we will all get tickets.. It will require people in big camps to mostly buy there own ticket.. Some will fall short and end up buying from a scalper.. I think I would skip going if a scalper was the only way.. The rush on the lottery is going to be ...........

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:57 pm

EspressoDude wrote:wow 150 new members on eplaya since JRS came out with the 'news'......

lots of new thoughts or new people saying the same thing...it's like..

FRESH MEAT.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by jazure » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:01 pm

In order for the tickets to be non-xferable, they must also then be refundable. My 2 cents

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:10 pm

BTW anybody thinking through the logic of only getting to bid on 1 tier...

If everyone bids on the lowest tier and large numbers get excluded, BMOrg stands to lose a huge amount of money in not letting these folks come in at a higher tier. The same would go for the upper tiers. They're obviously not doing that because that would screw with profits in a major way. More likely this means that if you miss one of the tiers on the way to selling out they will go up to the amount you are willing to spend and if you are willing to spend top dollar, they will keep you in their pool until tickets run out.

Imagine BMOrg throwing out 40,000 ticket applicants because they bid on the lowest tier and them not getting to go for another and because of this they won't allow these 40,000 to try for a higher tier (of course if 40,000 say they will only plop down $210 then they would have to exclude those from other tiers due to credit card regulations). The lower ticket prices don't cover the cost of paying for the event. BMOrg stands to lose a considerable amount of money if people only bid on the lowest tier because they just threw away 40,000 potential sales and will have to find 40,000 replacements which is not easy to do. Logic suggests they aren't doing that so I doubt that a reading of the tier structure means that. What it probably means is that they will keep you in their ticket application lottery up to the tier that you are willing to bid and then they have to throw you out if either:

A: the tier you are currently selected for exceeds the amount you are willing to spend.
B: tickets have run out.

Just bid top dollar if you want to be sure to have chances at the higher tiers as the lower tiers sell out during the lottery process. You might get in on the lottery at the lower tier, but if you miss they will most likely keep you in the pool up to the amount you are willing to spend. I'm pretty sure that is what that means because from a business point of view BMOrg stands to lose a lot of money by throwing you out of the pool and not allowing you into the higher tiers should the higher tiers not even have any applicants.

Don't worry. Even if you miss the burn in the desert, the spirit of the burn has already begun to take over defaultia and you will find it in the Occupy#s happening all over the place.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Even if you miss the burn in the desert, the spirit of the burn has already begun to take over defaultia and you will find it in Polka Palaces happening all over Ohio

damn straight.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:29 pm

Sola Gangsta wrote:BTW anybody thinking through the logic of only getting to bid on 1 tier...

If everyone bids on the lowest tier and large numbers get excluded, BMOrg stands to lose a huge amount of money in not letting these folks come in at a higher tier. The same would go for the upper tiers. They're obviously not doing that because that would screw with profits in a major way. More likely this means that if you miss one of the tiers on the way to selling out they will go up to the amount you are willing to spend and if you are willing to spend top dollar, they will keep you in their pool until tickets run out.

Imagine BMOrg throwing out 40,000 ticket applicants because they bid on the lowest tier and them not getting to go for another and because of this they won't allow these 40,000 to try for a higher tier (of course if 40,000 say they will only plop down $210 then they would have to exclude those from other tiers due to credit card regulations). The lower ticket prices don't cover the cost of paying for the event. BMOrg stands to lose a considerable amount of money if people only bid on the lowest tier because they just threw away 40,000 potential sales and will have to find 40,000 replacements which is not easy to do. Logic suggests they aren't doing that so I doubt that a reading of the tier structure means that. What it probably means is that they will keep you in their ticket application lottery up to the tier that you are willing to bid and then they have to throw you out if either:

A: the tier you are currently selected for exceeds the amount you are willing to spend.
B: tickets have run out.

Just bid top dollar if you want to be sure to have chances at the higher tiers as the lower tiers sell out during the lottery process. You might get in on the lottery at the lower tier, but if you miss they will most likely keep you in the pool up to the amount you are willing to spend. I'm pretty sure that is what that means because from a business point of view BMOrg stands to lose a lot of money by throwing you out of the pool and not allowing you into the higher tiers should the higher tiers not even have any applicants.

Don't worry. Even if you miss the burn in the desert, the spirit of the burn has already begun to take over defaultia and you will find it in the Occupy#s happening all over the place.

I read it as... If I bid 360 my number will be put in the 360 tier... each tier being a lottery.. Don't know "what" if the tier is sold before my number comes up.. This is the sticky thing.. How do I come back in on another level that has not been sold out? I'm pretty sure there are enough ticket for this year.. I'll say the third tier for me.. This is betting there will be enough tickets to cover all the people in this tier.. People buying for there family will increase the odds of a sell out before all get a ticket in any one tier.. The system will have to adjust,, If this is done after the draw, It will make it unfair to the first round buyers..

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by xaviermacx » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:33 pm

Just two quick points, for whatever it's worth.

1) The spirit, as I interpret it, behind the pricing tiers in the first place is a sort of non-exclusion, which this lottery seems to contradict.

2) If I am to make it next year, I will only be a sophomore burner. I definitely want to go because 2011 was such a wonderful experience and I can't wait to contribute even more of myself and my talents next year. However, why isn't there any regard for experienced burners? (I'm not including myself in this idea). I mean... I know everyone should be more or less equal when arriving at BRC, but experienced burners *often* (not always) bring more to the table than virgins. This is not to say we should exclude new burners AT ALL. My idea though, would be to split up the ticket sales half and half (so approx. 25,000 and 25,000)... so that those who have burned in previous years get a priority sale on the first 25,000 (with scaling priority based on seniority), for say, three days, and then the second 25,000 goes into lottery. I don't know... some configuration with that idea. I know it's not perfect, but someone could come up with a variation on that that works and would show more respect for more experienced burners.

That's all.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by MrNobodyWTB » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:34 pm

I barely read or post on this forum. But reading about the new lottery process, I felt forced to come voice my opinion that it really is rather stupid that Burning Man LLC is doing this. I don't know if they are trying to "level the playing field" per say and give everyone and equal chance to get a ticket. I feel it's unfair to people who are responsible and are able to get their tickets when they go on sale. Ticket sales for anything should not be more complicated than releasing them for sale, and people purchasing tickets, if they want to and are capable of doing so.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Arcticcircle » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:42 pm

Last year we had a minor scarcity issue with tickets. Now we DEFINITELY are I'd be surprised if the scalping market doesn't get out of control immediately after the first auction. They aren't avoiding scarcity, they're creating it when they can't offer a guaranteed path to a ticket. And cue the legions of hoarders and scalpers...

How big of a fricking problem was scalping last year, with the old way? So a small handful of scalpers made some money off of the people who SLACKED FOR 6 MONTHS ON BUYING TICKETS THE REGULAR WAY. Who cares! Most of the post-sellout ticket sales seemed to be burner-to-burner and were face value.

There are a huge amount of people who KNOW they want to go to Burning Man, and given the insecurity of the lottery system, I'm guessing most people will say that they are willing to pay any tier to go, hoping that ups their chances. If we can only compete in one tier, I'm wondering if the top tier is going to be absolutely jammed. Might be easier to win a ticket in a lower bracket. Which now turns this whole thing into a total headgame clusterf*ck. I REALLY DON'T CARE HOW MUCH I PAY FOR MY TICKET, BURNING MAN ORG, I just want to know that I HAVE A TICKET (which I was able to obtain without using the services of scalper parasites), THAT MY FRIENDS HAVE TICKETS and THAT WE CAN MOVE ON WITH GETTING EXCITED ABOUT BRC. The price difference between ticket tiers is not really all that substantial when you consider the overall cost of going to Burning Man. Fine, for some, that 100-150 dollar savings is the critical thing that makes the difference between being able to attend or not, but overall I think we'd love to pay less but will happily pay more if we have to, in order to go. I just want a ticket, and I don't want to have to leave it up to some stupid lottery, but if I do have to play this game, I certainly don't give a damn what tier I'm in. Put me in whatever tier lands me my ticket. Get it done with, give me a break. So fricking dumb.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by maryanimal » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:43 pm

milkyway87 wrote:let's wait to hear what the rest of the details are.
I agree! But reading everyone's opinions, thoughts and ideas is thought provoking!
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.

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