New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:51 pm

How many other threads do you plan to paste this into?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby A Jester » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:53 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:"this years drama is WAY better than last years drama."...

i smell a meme...kinda like patchouli mixed with garbage, on fire...


And then suddenly I realized why I read threads like this!

Well played, sir.
ZaphodBurner wrote:
The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby MrMullen » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:How many other threads do you plan to paste this into?


All that it takes.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:56 pm

So, flitz is your sock?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby A Jester » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:58 pm

danibel wrote:My questions:

How many lotteries will there be?

How many tickets are offered in each draw?


Two great questions!
No one knows!

Who is validating the draw? An outside authority to make sure it's legit and not just a list of people that are part of large theme camps or A listers?

Two stupid questions!

If I enter a lottery for say - up to the 3rd tier, will I be entered for the drawings that are in lower tiers? And if my name is not drawn in the first lottery, will it stay in the second, third, fourth, ect - if there are any more? Or will I have to re-register? Can I re-register?

You have to re-register.

If I win in an early lottery, can I sign up for another one to get more tickets for my camp mates?

NO.
How many tickets can I sign up for in each lottery? In the past I could buy two tickets at a time, will that be increased to say, four?

Good question! (My money is on "two")
What happens if my entry is drawn and my CC is declined that day (for a reason out of my control)? Will I get a chance to give another card number or am I shit out of luck?

Hell if anyone knows, but I'm guessing you won't get the ticket. Also, it doesn't really matter, but it's probably not for a reason out of your control.




Bottom line, you either trust that the people who bring us Burning Man spent some time thinking this through and have a good and fair solution where we all get our tickets if we are prepared, or you don't. Seems like most of the "don't" crowd assume that the lottery will totally suck, encourage scalpers, and ruin theme camps. Heck, maybe the "don't" crowd shouldn't go! That way there will definitely be plenty of tickets left over for the rest of us.
(yeah yeah, just kidding about the "then don't go" stuff. I get it, you care and are trying to "save" something you care about. The problem is you don't know what you're saving if from, or if it needs saving.)
ZaphodBurner wrote:
The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby alt12 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:16 pm

dangerpuss wrote:Another problem is that this creates uncertainty for those of us planning art installations, theme camps, mutant vehicles, etc. I must now ask myself whether or not I should I go ahead with the time-consuming, labor intensive (a labor of love, mind you) plans I have for our theme camp. It would break my heart to put so much into it only to find out in the early summer that all of my work was for nothing because I wasn't selected in the lottery. I'm sure that everyone who starts their builds early in order to bring something wonderful to share is now asking themselves the same question. I worry that the on-playa experience may suffer because people won't start building until they know with certainty that they have a ticket, and thus will have less time to put something truly amazing together.


this is exactly the problem. Now all of a sudden there is no guarantee that I can even get a ticket (never had that problem in 9 years!) and I won't know for months whether I even have one. Someone really fucked-up here if you ask me. But you know, maybe this is a good year to skip. I'm sure many organizers of theme camps and art projects and art cars are considering the same thing...

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby alt12 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:23 pm

A Jester wrote:
danibel wrote:My questions:

Bottom line, you either trust that the people who bring us Burning Man spent some time thinking this through and have a good and fair solution where we all get our tickets if we are prepared, or you don't. Seems like most of the "don't" crowd assume that the lottery will totally suck, encourage scalpers, and ruin theme camps. Heck, maybe the "don't" crowd shouldn't go! That way there will definitely be plenty of tickets left over for the rest of us.
(yeah yeah, just kidding about the "then don't go" stuff. I get it, you care and are trying to "save" something you care about. The problem is you don't know what you're saving if from, or if it needs saving.)



Well considering they monstrously fucked-up already in the unveiling process (i.e. announcing a radical change with huge effect on many people with providing the specifics and leaving everyone to freak out about what the hell is going on), I would say I think they thought this through poorly. To just trust in the enlightened altruism of the BMORG seems quite naive. How long have you been going to this event? Jesus.

A) I don't see how this will have any effect on scalpers. This won't stop scalping one bit. Zero impact. So there will obviously be significantly more scalping this year given the sell-out from last year and the oodles of money people made selling tickets for $500-$1000.

B) Given the reasonable expectation of a huge increase in scalping there is a very good chance that some people won't get their tickets in the lottery at all.


THis reminds me of the Netflix debacle actually. It may not be much money in the end but such inconsideration for the community at large really squanders good will.

C) Those of us who are so highly involved in the event don't want to commit to another year of back-breaking non-stopid labor without even knowing if we can get a ticket

D) There are not enough details in the announcement to know for sure. Personally I find this more frustrating than anything. Its as if the IRS said "Oh we're completely revamping the tax code for 2011. But we're know going to tell you yet. You'll just be paying more thats all." Makes it really hard to plan with such limited information.
Last edited by alt12 on Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby HippyLabRat » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:24 pm

I'm not a fan of the lottery system either! It could potentially short a LOT of theme camps that need critical tickets for crew (lighting, sound engineers, and so on could all get shorted and ruin a camp), or smaller camps that need all the help they can muster.

Suggestion:
A good solution would be a first come-first serve policy with a return ticket clause, and make the tickets non-transferrable. The only place you can sell your ticket is BACK TO BMORG. 5 days before the event should be the cut-off for returned tickets. All tickets would be done on a will-call basis. Bring your ID and credit card you purchased with. No tickets at the gate. Either you are radically self-reliant, and get your ticket ahead of schedule, or you don't get one.
Apparently Amazon.com has a really good back-end for just this sort of thing.

The lottery policy DEFINITELY caters to the scalpers; they can load up with toadies to help their cause. People who scrape all year are more easily left out in the cold. PLEASE do something more intelligent than a lottery. I know a lot of traditional burners that are considering not going at all because of the ludicrous lottery policy.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby pink » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:29 pm

I'm a real estate addict....I totally went and looked at ALL of the listings under 50K...it took me awhile to realize 10k wasn't the bottom limit.

One even has a cargo unit on it already. Shit, it would be cheaper than putting out for 14 pairs of BM tickets up front! Who's in this with me? :D
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Ranger Ryan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:38 pm

HippyLabRat wrote:I'm not a fan of the lottery system either! It could potentially short a LOT of theme camps that need critical tickets for crew (lighting, sound engineers, and so on could all get shorted and ruin a camp), or smaller camps that need all the help they can muster.

Suggestion:
A good solution would be a first come-first serve policy with a return ticket clause, and make the tickets non-transferrable. The only place you can sell your ticket is BACK TO BMORG. 5 days before the event should be the cut-off for returned tickets. All tickets would be done on a will-call basis. Bring your ID and credit card you purchased with. No tickets at the gate. Either you are radically self-reliant, and get your ticket ahead of schedule, or you don't get one.
Apparently Amazon.com has a really good back-end for just this sort of thing.

The lottery policy DEFINITELY caters to the scalpers; they can load up with toadies to help their cause. People who scrape all year are more easily left out in the cold. PLEASE do something more intelligent than a lottery. I know a lot of traditional burners that are considering not going at all because of the ludicrous lottery policy.


I love your ideas-- but having all tickets be will-call only sounds like it would cause a nightmare of an entry line.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby jmarc78 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:40 pm

There is not much I can say that hasn't already been voiced by several in our Community but I'll attempt to do so in a constructive and respectful way.

It goes without saying that BLM probably put A LOT of pressure on those charged with organizing Burning Man 2012 to either make significant changes or scrap the event entirely in the aftermath of Rites of Passage selling out and that event exceeding the permitted 50,000 attendees. Tough decisions had to be made if the Burn and the Playa itself were to be preserved for the future; I will give BMORG some degree of leeway on that front.

However, the final decision reached by BMORG to institute a lottery, I'm sad to say, is not the right approach.

Just as we among the Burning Man Community must show respect for the Playa each year and LEAVE NO TRACE, the BMORG must demonstrate its respect for US by observing another of the 10 Principles - RADICAL INCLUSION. This has now, in effect, been gutted.

A lottery is nothing more than a mere gamble. It is done in secret and at random. Moreover it is completely based on possessing a commodity (a credit card) if people want to take a chance. There has been no word given as to how long one will have to wait to find out if they are a "selected burner." This will destroy the ability of many in the Community to plan in advance which is an essential part of the experience for many of us.

There will be no transparency given to ensure the selection process will be fair and those who opt to pay for more tickets in the higher priced tiers will not be given preferential treatment. What about those in the Community who "know people" that are part of BMORG? Will they be given a more favored chance of securing a ticket?

There can be no argument that 2011's ticket purchasing process was for lack of a better word, chaotic. Things needed to be changed. There were other options the BMORG could have chosen to improve this process from this past year:

1.) Upgrade their servers to handle a heavy amount of traffic or choose a ticket vendor technologically advanced enough to handle this process.

2.) Switch to a single priced system (leaving the low cost tickets/scholarships intact and separate from that) thereby eliminating the "rush" to secure a ticket .

3.) Issue the confirmation numbers at time of purchase (with non-transferable status unless they are sold back to the BMORG) but not ship the tickets to the recipient until 1 month before the event (this will cut down on scalpers and their schemes).

Are these proposals a silver bullet? Of course not. But they are rooted in common sense and have already been echoed by many in the Community. The lottery will encourage MORE people to try and game the system and have the opposite effect of its intentions. Scalpers and con artists love a new challenge and this will do nothing to discourage their unethical behavior.

To the BMORG, you have heard from us - the overall reaction is loud and clear. PLEASE, take a step back and rethink your strategy.

)'(

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby The CO » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:47 pm

alt12 wrote:Well considering they monstrously fucked-up already in the unveiling process (i.e. announcing a radical change with huge effect on many people with providing the specifics and leaving everyone to freak out about what the hell is going on), I would say I think they thought this through poorly. To just trust in the enlightened altruism of the BMORG seems quite naive. How long have you been going to this event? Jesus.


This is the most valid complaint about the lottery announcement.

alt12 wrote:A) I don't see how this will have any effect on scalpers.


It won't.
Read the reposting of old news I had in this thread.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby gyre » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:50 pm

alt12 wrote:this is exactly the problem. Now all of a sudden there is no guarantee that I can even get a ticket (never had that problem in 9 years!) and I won't know for months whether I even have one. Someone really fucked-up here if you ask me. But you know, maybe this is a good year to skip. I'm sure many organizers of theme camps and art projects and art cars are considering the same thing...

Burning man needs spectators too.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby curiousgnate » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:51 pm

oh good loooooooooooooooooooord! when i looked at this thread after the jrs it was only 6 pages. I guarantee that i am not reading all of the rest of the posts! JRS should not have published the new ticketing system without all of the details. PERIOD/ EXCLAMATION POINT.! Shame on them. although a part of me wonders if they like all of this drama. If you are ready to act early then you will get tickets! If you have a project keep planning it! don't worry unless the only way you could go is by getting the lowest tier ticket, but then again you would have already been worrying. Wait until all the details are given to us to freak out. I think the lottery could go either way, in any eventuality it is unnecessary and quite frankly your own problem, if you are freaking out. i swear they must love to read this mess! YOU WILL GET TICKETS! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO BURN! CHILL THE FUCK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Steel Kitty » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Perhaps it's been said on here but Glastonbury (175,000 participants) has a very nice way of preventing scalpers. Here's the text:

Full information about how to buy tickets for Glastonbury Festival 2013 will be posted here during the course of 2012. For the moment, please refer to the basic information below. You may also wish to read the full ticket information relating to the 2011 Festival, which is archived here.

2013 BASIC TICKET INFORMATION

Every person who will be aged 13 or over on Wed 26th June 2013 who intends to purchase a ticket for Glastonbury Festival must have a valid registration number. Children aged 12 and under do not require tickets and do not need to register.

Each ticket for the Festival features the photograph of the registered ticket holder and is non-transferable. Security checks will be carried out to ensure that only the person in the photograph will be admitted to the Festival.

Seetickets are the only company permitted to sell tickets for Glastonbury Festival. No other site or agency will be allocated tickets. Any other company or individual claiming to sell Glastonbury Festival tickets is bogus. 
 


You can register online at www.glastonburyregistration.co.uk or visit www.seetickets.com/see/getglas.asp, to check whether you have an existing valid registration.
 


Seetickets aim to respond to all registrations within 24 hours during the working week. If you have not had a response from them within in that time frame we would suggest the following 3 courses of action:

1) Check your spam/junk email folder, in case your email has been rejected by your service provider
2) Check online at www.seetickets.com/see/getglas.asp to see if your registration has been approved
3) Re-register at www.glastonburyregistration.co.uk

INFORMATION FOR NEW REGISTRANTS:

Online registration only takes a few minutes, but needs to be completed at least 48 hours before you intend to buy a ticket. You will need to provide basic contact details and to upload a passport-standard photo, which should be of portrait orientation and in jpeg format. You will receive an email when your registration is received, and once your photo has been approved, you will receive a second email with your unique registration number that you will need to quote to book your ticket. At peak times Seetickets aim to process registrations within 24 hours during the working week, however during the Festival’s fallow year registrations may take longer to process. If you have not received a confirmation email within 48 hours (Monday-Friday) of having made an online application, please check your spam folder. If your registration is rejected or you do not receive a registration number, please re-register.


Once registered you will be eligible to buy a ticket for the Festival when they go on sale. Please note that registration does not guarantee you a ticket. If you plan to buy tickets for other people, they all need to be registered. When tickets go on sale you will need the registration number and registered postcode for each person for whom you are booking a ticket.

Your chance of buying tickets is not influenced in any way by the number of times you register, or the information you provide during registration.


There is no editing facility for registrations, so please ensure all your details are correct, and that your photo is of a suitable size, of portrait orientation and passport standard before submitting your details.

Registration will be temporarily suspended before and during the main ticket sales periods so make sure you register at least 48 hours before you intend to purchase tickets. Please allow time for your photo to be approved.


If you are unable to register online please send an SAE to: Glastonbury Festival Registration, Worthy Farm, Pilton, Shepton Mallet, Somerset, BA4 4BY to receive a postal registration form. Postal registrations will be confirmed within 14 working days of receipt.

INFORMATION FOR PREVIOUS REGISTRANTS:

Anyone who registered prior to the 2007 Festival will need to submit a new registration.

If you registered for the 2008 or 2009 Festival and opted to save your details, or registered for the 2011 Festival and opted not to save your details, you will have received an email in July 2011 giving you the option to extend your registration. If you did not receive this email, or did not opt to extend your registration, you will need to re-register.

If you registered for the 2010 or 2011 Festival and opted to save your details, your registration is still valid. You will receive an email from Seetickets during 2012 giving you the option to save or delete your current registration.

To check what your registration number is, or whether your registration is still valid please visit www.seetickets.com/see/getglas.asp? or call Seetickets on 0844 412 4626. You will need the surname and postcode you used when you registered in order to retrieve your registration information. 


If your address/name has changed since you registered, you can either register again or choose a different delivery address when booking tickets.

If in any doubt, please re-register well in advance of when you intend to book tickets.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby gyre » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:36 pm

curiousgnate wrote: YOU WILL GET TICKETS! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO BURN! CHILL THE FUCK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who are you to be reasonable?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby capjbadger » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:23 pm

junglesmacks wrote:I admitted earlier that I misworded. It was early and my brain was not properly caffienated at the time. :D

That's what I get for replying before reading the next 3 pages. ;)

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Paloma8 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:04 am

curiousgnate wrote: YOU WILL GET TICKETS! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO BURN! CHILL THE FUCK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Or.... YOU'LL give us YOURS??? It's a LOTTERY for heavens sake. There is NO WAY everyone wanting tickets is gonna get them.....

You go ahead and chill brother...... you're not my boss. A bit of peaceful resistance is no harm done. If they're having a good laugh about it, shame on them.

I agreed with the post back there a bit comparing the poorly timed and scantily worded JRS notification about this lottery..... that it was like saying we're changing the entire 2012 tax code... we'll announce the particulars in August...... you go ahead and plan your economic life the best you can and HOPE it all fits together for you.

I've kinda calmed down about it all... maybe this is the year to go around the freaking WORLD instead of working on another camp. Much easier to pack a suitcase and lots less time involved AND I can just go on-line, buy my ticket, plan my hotels and CLICK - it's done. No lottery. I GET TO GO.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Sophia » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:18 am

Are there going to be any retail stores that are selling hard copies of tix? this whole lottery thing seems very complicated.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Paloma8 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:29 am

Sophia wrote:Are there going to be any retail stores that are selling hard copies of tix? this whole lottery thing seems very complicated.


I think we will be able to buy them at 7-11 and most grocery stores..... they'll come on rolls and the winners will be announced every Tuesday. They might also be available in Las Vegas and Reno at select gambling casinos.

Tongue-in-cheek

So far, that has not been announced, nor if there will be any mail-in lotto applications.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby DJB » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:18 am

If you really want to stop scalpers, give the last 1000 tickets to Black Rock Arts/Burner without Borders to auction on eBay. That way those who what to pay over the odds, have a way of doing so that keeps the money in the BM community and everyone else can plan ahead and buy early.

Combined with non transferable photo tickets this should solve the problem.

If you really want a lottery, limit it to a 1,000 tickets to be released at the same time as the auction. To make it fair, anyone who bids on eBay can be removed from the lottery.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby PookieGirl » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:22 am

Crassly commercial gambling to get into BM? This lottery for ticket sales is a horrible idea! What about all the people who are crucial to setting up a theme camp, who have the experience from going to BM for years? What if they don't get a ticket via lottery? What about the artists who bring their work, the people who build the Temple, they all have to resort to the lottery? If you insist on a lottery, set aside a SMALL number of tickets for it, but not all possible tickets. This is such a bad idea and so counter to BM culture, I am appalled. The excuses for resorting to a lottery are lame and immature! The ticket sale site was overloaded? PULEEZE! Go back to first come first served.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:52 am

And who, I might ask, made this decision? Was it BORG (the owners) or was it the Non-profit staff. I would sure like to know. I am wondering how this whole non-profit thingy is going to work out.

We knew the owners and even met some on the playa, but does anybody know who will be (is) running the non-profit? Names? Have you met them? As a supposed "community" it would be nice to be able to know our leaders, even if we don't get to pick them.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:06 am

NAMES! I WANT NAMES! I DEMAND THE NAMES!!!

Somebody posted a link to all the names of the new board members in another thread.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby BurningDaylight » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:07 am

So, after reading through a lot of this, I think Trilobyte has won me over. First we just need to chill out and wait for the details, the world is not ending, I'll probably get my ticket, and the bmorg will probably go through with their idea, certainly at least for the December pre sale. There are lots of really bad ideas on this list, some good suggestions and a good dose of ranting, but Trilobyte, you have been the calming voice of reason for me at least.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:57 am

[quote="DJB"To make it fair, anyone who bids on eBay can be removed from the lottery.[/quote]
How the fuck is this even possible? Not only are eBay names completely assumed, but you don't even see the names of bidders any more. And if those weren't considerations, how much person power would it take to monitor eBay for 8 months? This is several orders of magnitude stupider than a lottery.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:57 am

(((mfpb)))
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby danibel » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:06 am

I just wanted to point out that I was misquoted:
A Jester wrote:

danibel wrote:My questions:

Bottom line, you either trust that the people who bring us Burning Man spent some time thinking this through and have a good and fair solution where we all get our tickets if we are prepared, or you don't. Seems like most of the "don't" crowd assume that the lottery will totally suck, encourage scalpers, and ruin theme camps. Heck, maybe the "don't" crowd shouldn't go! That way there will definitely be plenty of tickets left over for the rest of us.
(yeah yeah, just kidding about the "then don't go" stuff. I get it, you care and are trying to "save" something you care about. The problem is you don't know what you're saving if from, or if it needs saving.)


I didn't write that. But yes, I do care. And the Org could speak up and answer all the unknowns but instead continues to remain quiet and let us all wallow in fear.
In dust we trust.

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illy dilly
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby illy dilly » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:34 am

mfpb wrote:So, after reading through a lot of this, I think Trilobyte has won me over. First we just need to chill out and wait for the details, the world is not ending, I'll probably get my ticket, and the bmorg will probably go through with their idea, certainly at least for the December pre sale. There are lots of really bad ideas on this list, some good suggestions and a good dose of ranting, but Trilobyte, you have been the calming voice of reason for me at least.

Here here!!!

Though, I also freaked out and ranted right after reading the JRS. It was about 68 seconds from finishing the JRS to make my first rant. Thank god for high speed internet connections and quick fingers.
I have a feeling that after a lot of these folks stop and think it through, it will still be a little disconcerting until we have more details (or ticket in hand), but they will relax.
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

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lucky420
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lucky420 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:42 am

Then we can point our fingers and laugh at them!
Oh my god, it's HUGE!


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