New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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illy dilly
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby illy dilly » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:44 am

lucky420 wrote:Then we can point our fingers and laugh at them!

Ha ha!!!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:54 am

danibel wrote:I didn't write that. But yes, I do care. And the Org could speak up and answer all the unknowns but instead continues to remain quiet and let us all wallow in fear.

The llc will post a FAQ. We do have the choice to wait for that instead of wallowing in fear.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:08 am

Maybe BM has turned in a cult.

Should we all wear one color and chant?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby The CO » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:13 am

The only color is dust.

Join us......
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:17 am

chanting.................. burn it, burn it, more fire, less rules.............. burn it....
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Jenn_Ladybug » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:59 am

As an 8 year burner I don't like the lotto idea. I don't care if I get 1st or 4th tier tickets, but I want to be able to get my ticket in January for planning reasons. I think the lotto will encourge scapling!

My sugestion is to combine tier 1-3 into one price and make the tickets nontransferable. This would fix the first day rush and stop scalping.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:04 pm

As has been pointed out several times in this forum, is that a healthy number of tickets (was it 25%?) tickets are sold, at face value, usually, between burners. Having tickets non-transferable would me that you couldn't sell a ticket to a friend when you learn you can't go, for instance. Plus, there would a huge slow-down at gate, while tickets are checked against id. This would have to happen electronically, which means that the dust working its magic on those devises would mean it would slow down more. Plus, they'd have to have enough working scanners or whatever to keep that line moving.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Ruleryak » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:35 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:As has been pointed out several times in this forum, is that a healthy number of tickets (was it 25%?) tickets are sold, at face value, usually, between burners. Having tickets non-transferable would me that you couldn't sell a ticket to a friend when you learn you can't go, for instance. Plus, there would a huge slow-down at gate, while tickets are checked against id. This would have to happen electronically, which means that the dust working its magic on those devises would mean it would slow down more. Plus, they'd have to have enough working scanners or whatever to keep that line moving.


You're just jumping to the conclusion that it would have to be scanned - I'm sure a simple name check would be more than enough. As for the non-transferable factor, they would need a means of providing a partial refund up to a certain date of course but that's really all they'd need to do. The figure of 25% is made up - sorry but there's no way that many tickets change hands due to people changing their minds. Airline tickets are non transferable and non refundable yet we deal with those all the time without massive problems.

Personally I think this whole thing is BS. Use ticketmaster like everyone else and wave goodbye to ticket system crashes. Scalpers can't and wont buy all the tickets available and anyone that gets off their ass and buys early will be fine.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby trilobyte » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:08 pm

The estimate of up to 25% of tickets changing hands is not just people who decided they can't go. It includes any kind of indirect purchase, which includes buying from someone who can't go, ticket as reward for participation in project, won through fundraiser/raffle, and gifting. Participant Services saw between 300-500 requests per day from the time tickets sold out on July 24th and when they shut down their operations to head to the playa a month later (and had received a fair number of requests in the six months before), and they weren't even involved in every transaction.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Finnegan » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:42 pm

Well that was a fun read! You people are so cute, with your rantings and ravings. And the helpful suggestions! Those are my favorite. I'm certain the powers that be are up late at night reading your suggestions and taking notes. No, they are on their balcony drinking champagne and laughing their asses off.

Working within the system has proven to be a failed strategy. Want to change things? Show up at the gate without a ticket and Occupy the Gate.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Nipple » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:49 pm

That'll show 'em! Give 'em heck, Finnegan!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby capjbadger » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:25 pm

We're right behind yo.. oh wait... I'm already inside the gate for 2 weeks building so you have something to go to. Hmm... :?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby eastcoastpat » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:34 pm

One of the critisisms of Burning Man is that the "expiremental community" is a failed experiment because it encourages people to gift whatever they can to benefit each other- thus the gift economy. A gift economy, according to the critics, could never exist because of SCARCITY.
REALLY, we should not put a cap on the event, the playa is large enough to accomodate 100k+ ppl, and if its the infrastucture than cannot handle the influx then spend the additional money from ticket sales to hire/recruit more volunteers or brainstorm about ways to accomodate more people. If a football stadium can sit 75-100k ppl then it seems silly that the largest flat expanse in North American cannot. it is It seems like this idea of lottery being more "fair" than other methods its just introducing scarcity into the community where is should not exist. "fairness" should allow for those individuals that spend their resources and time on bringing their art and participation to the greatest number of people.

One note to contradict myself: If the lottery will eliminate people being able to purchase blocks of tickets so the event sells out faster (which is ridiculous bc it should not sell out), then so be it. Those people that are morally bankrupt probably shit a brick when they realized BM sold out for the first time I can just imagine the $$ signs in the place of their eyeballs..

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:39 pm

The roads are already strained. A larger population would make it worse. That's the bottle neck, not the size of the desert.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby trilobyte » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:48 pm

To be fair, some of us are up late at night anyway. And not all of us have balconies.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby MrMullen » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:49 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:The roads are already strained. A larger population would make it worse. That's the bottle neck, not the size of the desert.


Agreed. It's not the size of the desert that is the issue, it's getting out of it that is the issue.

If Burning Man had a 100K people at it, you would need to hold a lottery just to assign times for people to leave.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby incubus_pantomime » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:08 pm

jmarc78 wrote:There is not much I can say that hasn't already been voiced by several in our Community but I'll attempt to do so in a constructive and respectful way.

It goes without saying that BLM probably put A LOT of pressure on those charged with organizing Burning Man 2012 to either make significant changes or scrap the event entirely in the aftermath of Rites of Passage selling out and that event exceeding the permitted 50,000 attendees. Tough decisions had to be made if the Burn and the Playa itself were to be preserved for the future; I will give BMORG some degree of leeway on that front.

However, the final decision reached by BMORG to institute a lottery, I'm sad to say, is not the right approach.

Just as we among the Burning Man Community must show respect for the Playa each year and LEAVE NO TRACE, the BMORG must demonstrate its respect for US by observing another of the 10 Principles - RADICAL INCLUSION. This has now, in effect, been gutted.

A lottery is nothing more than a mere gamble. It is done in secret and at random. Moreover it is completely based on possessing a commodity (a credit card) if people want to take a chance. There has been no word given as to how long one will have to wait to find out if they are a "selected burner." This will destroy the ability of many in the Community to plan in advance which is an essential part of the experience for many of us.

There will be no transparency given to ensure the selection process will be fair and those who opt to pay for more tickets in the higher priced tiers will not be given preferential treatment. What about those in the Community who "know people" that are part of BMORG? Will they be given a more favored chance of securing a ticket?

There can be no argument that 2011's ticket purchasing process was for lack of a better word, chaotic. Things needed to be changed. There were other options the BMORG could have chosen to improve this process from this past year:

1.) Upgrade their servers to handle a heavy amount of traffic or choose a ticket vendor technologically advanced enough to handle this process.

2.) Switch to a single priced system (leaving the low cost tickets/scholarships intact and separate from that) thereby eliminating the "rush" to secure a ticket .

3.) Issue the confirmation numbers at time of purchase (with non-transferable status unless they are sold back to the BMORG) but not ship the tickets to the recipient until 1 month before the event (this will cut down on scalpers and their schemes).

Are these proposals a silver bullet? Of course not. But they are rooted in common sense and have already been echoed by many in the Community. The lottery will encourage MORE people to try and game the system and have the opposite effect of its intentions. Scalpers and con artists love a new challenge and this will do nothing to discourage their unethical behavior.

To the BMORG, you have heard from us - the overall reaction is loud and clear. PLEASE, take a step back and rethink your strategy.

)'(


THIS sounds like a much, much more reasonable way of approaching what I am sure is one helluva tangled-up mess that last year's ticket sellout created.


Seriously, BMORG. I know many people think they don't give a shit, but I like to think that they've got at least one peon who has been assigned the task of reading ePlaya for any serious questions/solutions. PLEASE reconsider this idea, and the next time you want to implement a major policy change, don't announce it unless you're willing to give the hungry masses full disclosure.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby gyre » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:35 pm

eastcoastpat wrote:One of the criticisms of Burning Man is that the "experimental community" is a failed experiment because it encourages people to gift whatever they can to benefit each other- thus the gift economy. A gift economy, according to the critics, could never exist because of SCARCITY.

What critics?

A gift economy, more accurately called universal reciprocity, is a very common economy, primarily in hardship or subsistence communities.

Doing it with wealth is a very different twist.

It is even practiced among many groups in the usa to one degree or another.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby urbanmonk » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:59 pm

One of the goals of the tiered ticketing process is to allow those who can pay more for the ticket to do so and essentially fund those who need to pay less. This is an admirable goal. However, a lottery system creates economic classes within the community (as in those who are into Burning Man, not just those going) since the number of people willing or able to pay for the top tier ticket is probably fewer. If the number of tickets for each tier is equal, that means that the top tier ticket buyers have a higher probability of going, thus creating a haves vs have-nots social dilemma - and I use "dilemma" because this is antithesis to what Burning Man is supposed to be, in my opinion and I think most others. Taking Burning Man as a social experiment, the result is the same as what happens around the world - it is becoming capitalistic.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Jenifersteppat » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:52 pm

I am a virgin burner who has scrimped and saved to be ready to buy tickets. I have hoarded my vacation time. All I can say is I hope I hope I hope I get tickets! I just have to trust that if I plan to the best of my ability for what is in my control it will all work out. I am sure everything people are worried about has been considered by the powers that be. Hoping to see you all on the playa 2012 :)
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Jenifersteppat » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:00 pm

I agree with having tiers if it is based on paying less if you buy your ticket early and are prepared - the tiers in a lottery system don't make any sense. I will "play" for the highest tier because I believe it will increase my chances - which you are right - is not very democratic. It is hard to get past the basic logic of first come first served IS fair, if you are going to keep tiers it should be based on reward for preparedness and early purchasing wich is radical self reliance. Keepin my fingers crossed....
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby BBadger » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:06 pm

eastcoastpat wrote:One of the critisisms of Burning Man is that the "expiremental community" is a failed experiment because it encourages people to gift whatever they can to benefit each other- thus the gift economy.


I don't think that term means what you think it means.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Sham » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

I hate to repeat the same thing again, but this past event took 7 months to sell out. If you want to attend in 2012, you can easily attend this event. There are also oodles of tickets on Craigslist from people who bought tickets, but then found out that their dear Aunt Sophie is having her 90th birthday party during Burning Man, and if they miss it, they will be cut out of her will.
In short, don't fret!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Nipple » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:28 pm

But it's a lottery!

It's possible only 5 or 6 of us will win tickets!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby vangran » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:56 pm

Ticket scalpers are allready aware that BM sold out last year. Sold out events are what draw them out. With or without the lottery, scalpers will be active in this years ticket sales and unfortunately a lot of tickets will be sold for a lot more than face value. The only problem with a lottery system that I see is that it increases the PERCEPTION of scarcity and increases the PANIC surrounding the whole ticket sale process.
As I see it, if you are the type who normally plans ahead and orders your ticket early, then get registered for the lottery as soon as you can and you will almost certainly get your ticket. make sure your friends know about the lottery in time so they don't get left behind. Order for your friends as necessary but DON'T panic and have everyone in your group order the max amount just to be sure. The sad fact is, because of BLM policies, there is not enough space for eveyone who wants to go. I'm sure tho that there is enough space for everyone who REALLY wants to go.(or really needs to)
It is up to us as a community to be calm, plan ahead and not behave in a manner that contributes to the panic. I would like to hear more people worrying about "How will this affect my favorite camps" rather than "how will it affect MY camp". Hang in there, I think we'll be allright.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby curiousgnate » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:04 pm

where does it say that the blm is pissed off about the attendance of this years event. it did no go over the cap that was put on it! second, who knows what the system will look like. maybe only a lottery of the first through third tiers, and then general tickets for the rest. we have no fucking clue. as i said before wait until the system has been made public. SHAME ON THE JRS FOR PUBLISHING WISHY WASH INFO TO CAUSE DRAMA WHICH THEY DEFINITELY KNEW IT WOULD!!! AND ANOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAS IT REALLY COME DOWN TO LETS SEE WHAT DRAMA WE CAN CREATE?! AND IF AND WHEN THEY TELL US THAT THEY DIDN'T MEAN TO CAUSE SAID DRAMA THEY ARE LYING! 100%!!!! BECAUSE ANYONE WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE PUTTING OUT THERE KNEW THE DRAMA IT WOULD CREATE! don't feed into the craziness until they have released how it will work. we don't know time frames, we don't know specifics, we don't know shit except that it is a lottery for at least part of the ticketing process! CHILL THE FUCK OUT AND YELL AT JRS, AND WHOMEVER TOLD THEM TO RELEASE THIS INFORMATION!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby vargaso » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:33 pm

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Last edited by vargaso on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby illy dilly » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:38 pm

Jenifersteppat wrote:I am a virgin burner who has scrimped and saved to be ready to buy tickets. I have hoarded my vacation time. All I can say is I hope I hope I hope I get tickets! I just have to trust that if I plan to the best of my ability for what is in my control it will all work out. I am sure everything people are worried about has been considered by the powers that be. Hoping to see you all on the playa 2012 :)

Ya know what I think!
Jenifersteppat, is awesome!
Burner Virgin, that is simply saying "I've saved my cash. I'm prepared. I hope I get a ticket" No ranting or bitching and complaining.

I hope Jenifersteppat gets a ticket too!
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby xorian » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:00 pm

I have been wanting to go to BM for years but just this year have a real chance of being able to. I really hope I get a ticket. Acctually just made this account to ask how to get in a camp and how to know what the different camps are. This discusion has kinda put a damper on my high spirets of being able to go and be appart of what looks to be the most wounderful event in the world.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Savannah » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:08 pm

Hey xorian. Don't worry yet. No point. :) You have as much information about buying a ticket right now as the rest of us.

Here's a forum called 2012 Theme Camps. At the top of the forum there's a helpful sticky thread called "How to Join a Theme Camp".
viewforum.php?f=283

Please note that joining a theme camp is optional. (If you apply to one, make sure you love their theme, because you will probably sing for your supper a little bit.) You can also travel alone, you could attend with a friend or two, or you could meet a local group in the "Regionals" link at the top right of the main Burning Man site.


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