New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:03 am

@didjital - the changes to the system have nothing whatsoever to do with helping those who did not plan. The changes have to do with ensuring that those who *do* plan have a fair chance at getting a ticket. The price breaks are higher because of a reduction in the number of available tiers. As they say, 'fewer steps make a steeper climb' and all that.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:45 am

Good Advice.

I would also add "pay yourself first". (i.e. put something into savings)
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by NellieX » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:36 am

Do we know if cards will be charged before jan 22nd? Im guessing no, but I'm neurotic so I have to ask.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:09 pm

I don't think so. They do (based on reported behavior in the early sale) send in a charge of about a dollar through to make sure that the larger charge will go through. (Not it a "is there enough money" sense, but in a "does this card exist" sense.) But January 22 is too early for their to be the "scrubbing" which must be gone through before they start drawing tickets. It's certainly too early for them to get to the end of the list; it seemed to take a couple of days for the 3000 in the previous sale.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Eric » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:28 pm

NellieX wrote:Do we know if cards will be charged before jan 22nd? Im guessing no, but I'm neurotic so I have to ask.
Official answer, from the Burning Man ticket page:
Burning Man TIcket Page wrote:On or before February 1, a random selection will be conducted to award 40,000 tickets as follows:

$240: 10,000 tickets
$320: 15,000 tickets
$390: 15,000 tickets

If you are awarded tickets, your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your tickets at that time.
All sales at all Tiers for the Main Sale are limit 2 per person.
If you bought tickets in the Pre-Sale you are not eligible to buy tickets in the Main Sale.
Those who are awarded tickets will receive notification on or by February 1 via email that their credit cards have been charged for their tickets and at which pricing tier.
Registration ends the 22nd, so no charges before then. Main Sale closes Feb 1, so there shouldn't be charges after then. You need to have the money ready between 12:01am (PST) Monday the 23rd through (I'm assuming) 11:59 pm (PST) Weds, Feb 1. I'm assuming the last one because I'm not sure if the drawing end on the 31st or the 1st, so better safe than sorry.

Basically, your card is charged when you are awarded tickets & an email is sent out telling you that. From the pre-sale lessons, it seems the email may take a day or two to go out for some people, but once your card has been charged you should be all good.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by brcprincess » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:53 pm

Unfortunately many people opt to buy lower tier tickets, even if they can afford the higher ones. This largely invalidates the tier system. Then there's the scalpers to consider.

It would be best if all the tickets were one price. It would solve a lot of problems and be a lot fairer.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by NellieX » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Thank you for clarifying, erik.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Eric » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:05 pm

brcprincess wrote:It would be best if all the tickets were one price. It would solve a lot of problems and be a lot fairer.
While I partially agree with this, can you imagine the howls of complaints when there were no more lower tiers? All the conspiracy theories about how "they" are trying to rip "us" off, and how the single pricing is just a way to line the LLC's pockets? I've been on this board 8 years- any change the LLC makes is questioned, sometimes for the better, usually just because it's change.

(the reason my agreement is only partial- I'm one of those poorer Burners who would love to save some money on tickets to use for other expenses, but I also have enough set aside so I can pay up to the 3rd tier price...)
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sham » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:15 pm

If tickets were sold at one price, the math comes out to $326.25 per ticket, based number of tickets and the tier prices. This might be something to be considered for next year.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by gyre » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:27 pm

They have always said that cheaper tiers cost less than "at cost" entrance, and were subsidized by higher priced tickets.
I recall them stating actual "at cost" for each person too.


Why not give first tier to those who volunteered the year before, and didn't get a volunteer discount ticket?

Rough when you didn't get to attend last year, but always is anyway.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:38 pm

I don't know. Under the old system (as well as under the current one), those who can only afford the lowest tier still have a chance to participate, going back to a flat rate for all tickets eliminates that chance. If anything, the newer system gives an even better chance, since those who have less means are less likely to be able to take a day from work to camp in front of the computer for that chance at getting a cheaper ticket. It's really easy for those who can afford more to suggest doing away with the bottom tier.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by gyre » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:51 pm

Until they quit selling them by mail, I always bought my ticket that way.

It is a big pain in the ass, and I figure that gave you a better chance at first tier.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by alt12 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:02 pm

Eric wrote:
brcprincess wrote:It would be best if all the tickets were one price. It would solve a lot of problems and be a lot fairer.
While I partially agree with this, can you imagine the howls of complaints when there were no more lower tiers? All the conspiracy theories about how "they" are trying to rip "us" off, and how the single pricing is just a way to line the LLC's pockets? I've been on this board 8 years- any change the LLC makes is questioned, sometimes for the better, usually just because it's change.
Yes heaven forbid people question the motivations of a private business with millions of dollars in yearly revenues. You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to be skeptical of BM LLC. In fact all you really need is to have been a former staff member or long-term volunteer with any level of responsibility... But I guess we should all just drink the kool-aid and assume its for the best of all possible worlds.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BBadger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:32 am

There is really no harm in having the tiers. However, if there are very few people who specified only the cheapest tier, it may be easier and better for more people to just have two tiers: one for the main sale which is the averaged price of those tickets, and the open-sale, which is at the higher price. For this year, the average price of the main sale is $326, so it would essentially mean everyone would get Tier 2 prices at the expense of those who can only afford Tier 1 and without the chance that you'll get a Tier 1 ticket too.

Really though, it doesn't make a huge difference.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Cheyenne » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:09 am

It would be best if all the tickets were one price. It would solve a lot of problems and be a lot fairer.
I absolutely agree with this. I'm not of the opinion that such a practice would constitute a 'conspiracy of value' - Glastonbury has always sold its tickets at one price and it is an event that shuns corporate sponsorship.

Maybe there are people out there that are just too bloody sensitive to ever accept a single price ticket policy....
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:20 am

I'm not too sensitive to accept it, I just see enough people posting that are indicating they couldn't afford tickets at a higher flat price to think that there's still a reason to offer tiered ticket pricing. I've been in a position where higher tiers were out of my reach in years past and am thankful for having had the chance to get a more affordable ticket, so I can certainly sympathize with that position.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by remi » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:35 am

Cheyenne wrote:Glastonbury has always sold its tickets at one price and it is an event that shuns corporate sponsorship.
Why do people always compare BM's new ticket process to Glastonbury's ticket process? There are many different festivals with many different ticket selling precedures.. Is Glastonbury known for its impeccable ticket selling process that never has any issues? I think BMOrg has done an pretty awesome job so far.. and until we have data to review, nobody is in the position to bash it.

Glastonbury's single tier, picture on a ticket thing may work for them.. but I can see (and have read) many reasons' why it would not be right for BM.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by A Jester » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:53 am

brcprincess wrote:Unfortunately many people opt to buy lower tier tickets, even if they can afford the higher ones. This largely invalidates the tier system. Then there's the scalpers to consider.

It would be best if all the tickets were one price. It would solve a lot of problems and be a lot fairer.
What problems would is solve? How would it be fairer?

right now, everyone has a chance at a lower price ticket. Since everyone has the same chance, it seems fair to me.

I don't understand how giving people a chance to buy a cheaper ticket invalidates the tier system.

Btw, if you want to criticize the system, you'd be better off mentioning that you can't opt out of the lower tiers.

I also don't see how considering scalpers has any effect on the tier system.

Personally, I think it's kinda cool. A group of random burners are subsidizing a group of other random burners. If you end up with a lower tier ticket and don't need it, feel free to take the difference and donate it to someone who does need it (or BWB, or the Red Cross, etc).
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BBadger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:25 am

trilobyte wrote:I'm not too sensitive to accept it, I just see enough people posting that are indicating they couldn't afford tickets at a higher flat price to think that there's still a reason to offer tiered ticket pricing. I've been in a position where higher tiers were out of my reach in years past and am thankful for having had the chance to get a more affordable ticket, so I can certainly sympathize with that position.
I think it is exactly that: while it makes absolute no difference to the Org's bottom line, the tiers provide some mechanism for people with reduced means of obtaining a ticket.

By design, everyone has equal opportunity to obtain those cheaper tickets as well. The only effect the choice people are given has on the tickets they receive is increasing the odds of getting a ticket at all by accepting a higher priced ticket, but that is no less "fair" than it ever has been.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Poproxy » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:22 am

I just needed to get this out, I think this new ticket purchasing system is bullshit. Some of us have jobs where we get a lot of money and then have none etc... Every ear I wait until I have the cash, buy my tickets and dont worry about it. It is impossible for me to just keep 840.00 in my account all the time in case I end up "winning" the most expensive tickets. I have gone for 6 years in a row now and I think this year will be my first since I began that I will not go. Just needed to vent! :evil:

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by A Jester » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:53 am

Poproxy wrote:I just needed to get this out, I think this new ticket purchasing system is bullshit. Some of us have jobs where we get a lot of money and then have none etc... Every ear I wait until I have the cash, buy my tickets and dont worry about it. It is impossible for me to just keep 840.00 in my account all the time in case I end up "winning" the most expensive tickets. I have gone for 6 years in a row now and I think this year will be my first since I began that I will not go. Just needed to vent! :evil:
You can't leave the money in your account for 11 days?

Also, I don't really understand the difference between having spent $800 and just leaving $800 in your account. Just a thought, if you're constantly spending money and then finding out you didn't have it (and then being charged with overdrafts or interest) maybe you should work on not doing that, and next year you'll have an extra $800 for BM tickets.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:58 am

alt12 wrote:Yes heaven forbid people question the motivations of a private business with millions of dollars in yearly revenues. You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to be skeptical of BM LLC. In fact all you really need is to have been a former staff member or long-term volunteer with any level of responsibility... But I guess we should all just drink the kool-aid and assume its for the best of all possible worlds.
I have been struggling with this vague cloudy set of charges against the llc. I tend to look askance at them myself, but the complaints are pretty off-putting as well. They are unspecific and so often seem to come from people who volunteered long after they were burning out--which makes me less sympathetic. And this "private business" thing--I take it you mean something like "privately owned and operated". I don't know what to say, but that at some point the event was going to end unless permit applications, including Environmental Assessments, were going to be needed, and so, for good or ill, the running of the event was going to have to go to people who could somehow get that done, or the thing was going to end.
And that damn kool-ade--fuck you. I'm tired of having that thrown at me. We do not spend the week in a compound, listening to Larry rant over the loudspeakers, and when he's asleep tapes of Larry ranting, if we eat a diet too low in protein it's our own damn fault, and a really ugly tragedy to be tossed around so lightly is a real insult to its victims, both living and dead.
So yes, there might be a real value in the llc being more open. But the tactics of the people who want this are so immature that you only end up looking like spoiled children.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:02 pm

@Poproxy - it's not a question of whether you're employed, or what kind of job you have, but on whether you've got the ability to manage your money. If you're able to do just a little bit of money management, then register for the main sale. You register for the highest tier you can afford, and the system will try to get you a ticket for the best price possible. If successful, the charge will hit your card between the 23rd and the 1st of February. If you're unable to plan that far ahead, then go to your local check-cashing joint and purchase a pre-paid card in the amount of your ticket purchase (plus fees), and then register (you've got 2 weeks to get that done). Now you don't have to worry about some other expense causing you to accidentally dip below the amount needed for the ticket purchase. You can also wait until the secondary sale in March, which will be handled as an open sale with transactions being processed immediately. Hope that helps!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by motskyroonmatick » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Sheesh! That was easy! It was nice to see a little browser lag from peak activity. In for 1 at any price. :P
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Giacamogio » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:18 pm

MrMullen wrote:If you have not read your JRS, I will save you the work and post the good part, the part about selling tickets:
IMPORTANT 2012 BURNING MAN TICKET INFORMATION

Changes and improvements are afoot for ticket sales to Burning Man 2012! Here's a first look at what to expect -- stand by for more complete information soon, but for now (we know, you're wondering!) here's a quick overview:

2011 provided two compelling reasons to change how tickets are sold: a challenging ticket launch day, and then, our first-ever sold-out event. Before the Man even fell in BRC, we got busy with a deep examination of our processes and technology - and of new ideas, some of them straight from your feedback - to figure out how to provide successful, smooth ticket sales in 2012.

The big news: tickets to Burning Man 2012 will be offered via a lottery system. This solution offers a two-fold benefit: it eliminates the annual ticket sales rush by spreading out registration over time (no more sitting in "line" all day, no more getting kicked out of the queue, no sudden unwieldy server demand!) -- and it begins to address the challenges of scarcity. We are also intent upon creating a balance of opportunity across a few months time.

I planned for it. I was on time. I had my credit card ready. Why the lottery? I think it is for two reasons:

1. Burning Man is giving a helping hand to those who can't get their act together and buy their tickets on time. Instead of being ready day one, now they have a window of time to act.
2. Burning Man is not willing to pull their online ticketing business from the dingbat who screwed us all over last year. This is a classic misunderstanding of who the customer is and who the business supplier is.

I just registered for my tickets and noticed that I could only select one ticket price level--so, to play into their scarcity mentality, I selected a tier I am not comfortable paying for but willing to do it when the alternative is to not go at all. This is a clear tactic Burning Man is using to scare us into purchasing more expensive tickets earlier in the process which gives them more money in their pockets sooner.

This is not a customer-focused idea and it tarnishes Burning Man's image in my mind, and from what I can tell on eplaya, in the minds of many others.

Boo-hiss!
We'll have more details coming very soon (including deadlines and prices) but here's a summary of the major changes to how tickets will be obtained:

- You'll first register for the ticket lottery during a 2-week open registration period. At that time, you'll declare which of the pricing tiers you'd be willing to pay, and provide a valid credit card number.
- After the registration period, we will run separate lotteries for each ticket tier. If your name is selected, at this point your credit card will be billed, and you'll receive a ticket confirmation.
- There will be several consecutive lottery rounds.
- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person
- Ticket fulfillment will be held until early summer.

And YOU, JRS subscriber, will be the first to receive information and get a chance to register! Coming up soon, we will be announcing full details, pricing tiers, dates of the registration period and lottery round announcements, and of course a big fat FAQ.

PRE-SALES: We also announce the return of a limited Pre-Sale, timed around the holidays. These "pre-sale" tickets will be offered at a significantly higher price than the very lowest tier of tickets; they'll also be sold via a lottery system. (This also affords a chance for us all to experience the lottery program with a smaller subset of ticket buyers before the main rollout begins.)

REDUCED PRICE PROGRAMS: We continue to welcome and support attendance for lower-income participants, so we will be overhauling the Low Income and Scholarship ticket programs in 2012. The two similar programs are being merged into one, to create a hybrid that will retain the best features of each -- and serve more people, since we're also increasing the number of these tickets that will be available.

The JRS and http://tickets.burningman.com should be your primary source of information over any Facebook page, twitter feed, locker room or water cooler chatter". The first registration will start before the end of November. Read your JRS regularly to be informed.

Got questions now? We know you do!...but please wait until the full details are released before you send us your questions - all will be revealed shortly. DO NOT EMAIL us, we will not answer questions about the ticket process on any of our aliases until all the info is out.

Visit the ePlaya ticket threads at http://bit.ly/BM2012Tickets and discuss and ask questions openly so we can answer in a way that benefits more people.
I am going to be the first to say: STUPIDEST IDEA EVER!!!!

Let me get this straight, I have my shit together, buy two tickets (My wife and I) and have for the last eight YEARS and now BMORG wants to punish me? Now, I have enter a lottery and take my chances? Are the people who have their shit together getting punished because a handful of people could not decide to go to Burningman or could not get their shit together to buy a ticket between the month of January and July? Give me a break. A lot of things are not fair in this world, and not getting ticket because you could not be bothered to buy a ticket in a 6 month time span just means you should not go to Burningman. Seriously, not to be a drama cry baby, but I might not make it a 9th year.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Giacamogio » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:20 pm

MrMullen wrote:If you have not read your JRS, I will save you the work and post the good part, the part about selling tickets:
IMPORTANT 2012 BURNING MAN TICKET INFORMATION

Changes and improvements are afoot for ticket sales to Burning Man 2012! Here's a first look at what to expect -- stand by for more complete information soon, but for now (we know, you're wondering!) here's a quick overview:

2011 provided two compelling reasons to change how tickets are sold: a challenging ticket launch day, and then, our first-ever sold-out event. Before the Man even fell in BRC, we got busy with a deep examination of our processes and technology - and of new ideas, some of them straight from your feedback - to figure out how to provide successful, smooth ticket sales in 2012.

The big news: tickets to Burning Man 2012 will be offered via a lottery system. This solution offers a two-fold benefit: it eliminates the annual ticket sales rush by spreading out registration over time (no more sitting in "line" all day, no more getting kicked out of the queue, no sudden unwieldy server demand!) -- and it begins to address the challenges of scarcity. We are also intent upon creating a balance of opportunity across a few months time.

I planned for it. I was on time. I had my credit card ready. Why the lottery? I think it is for two reasons:

1. Burning Man is giving a helping hand to those who can't get their act together and buy their tickets on time. Instead of being ready day one, now they have a window of time to act.
2. Burning Man is not willing to pull their online ticketing business from the dingbat who screwed us all over last year. This is a classic misunderstanding of who the customer is and who the business supplier is.

I just registered for my tickets and noticed that I could only select one ticket price level--so, to play into their scarcity mentality, I selected a tier I am not comfortable paying for but willing to do it when the alternative is to not go at all. This is a clear tactic Burning Man is using to scare us into purchasing more expensive tickets earlier in the process which gives them more money in their pockets sooner.

This is not a customer-focused idea and it tarnishes Burning Man's image in my mind, and from what I can tell on eplaya, in the minds of many others.

Boo-hiss!
We'll have more details coming very soon (including deadlines and prices) but here's a summary of the major changes to how tickets will be obtained:

- You'll first register for the ticket lottery during a 2-week open registration period. At that time, you'll declare which of the pricing tiers you'd be willing to pay, and provide a valid credit card number.
- After the registration period, we will run separate lotteries for each ticket tier. If your name is selected, at this point your credit card will be billed, and you'll receive a ticket confirmation.
- There will be several consecutive lottery rounds.
- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person
- Ticket fulfillment will be held until early summer.

And YOU, JRS subscriber, will be the first to receive information and get a chance to register! Coming up soon, we will be announcing full details, pricing tiers, dates of the registration period and lottery round announcements, and of course a big fat FAQ.

PRE-SALES: We also announce the return of a limited Pre-Sale, timed around the holidays. These "pre-sale" tickets will be offered at a significantly higher price than the very lowest tier of tickets; they'll also be sold via a lottery system. (This also affords a chance for us all to experience the lottery program with a smaller subset of ticket buyers before the main rollout begins.)

REDUCED PRICE PROGRAMS: We continue to welcome and support attendance for lower-income participants, so we will be overhauling the Low Income and Scholarship ticket programs in 2012. The two similar programs are being merged into one, to create a hybrid that will retain the best features of each -- and serve more people, since we're also increasing the number of these tickets that will be available.

The JRS and http://tickets.burningman.com should be your primary source of information over any Facebook page, twitter feed, locker room or water cooler chatter". The first registration will start before the end of November. Read your JRS regularly to be informed.

Got questions now? We know you do!...but please wait until the full details are released before you send us your questions - all will be revealed shortly. DO NOT EMAIL us, we will not answer questions about the ticket process on any of our aliases until all the info is out.

Visit the ePlaya ticket threads at http://bit.ly/BM2012Tickets and discuss and ask questions openly so we can answer in a way that benefits more people.
I am going to be the first to say: STUPIDEST IDEA EVER!!!!

Let me get this straight, I have my shit together, buy two tickets (My wife and I) and have for the last eight YEARS and now BMORG wants to punish me? Now, I have enter a lottery and take my chances? Are the people who have their shit together getting punished because a handful of people could not decide to go to Burningman or could not get their shit together to buy a ticket between the month of January and July? Give me a break. A lot of things are not fair in this world, and not getting ticket because you could not be bothered to buy a ticket in a 6 month time span just means you should not go to Burningman. Seriously, not to be a drama cry baby, but I might not make it a 9th year.
I just participated in this process and I am highly dissatisfied. Poor job Burning Man

Giacamogio
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:51 am

Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Giacamogio » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:26 pm

I just participated and I am highly dissatisfied with the tier system. It is for the benefit of Burning Man--and their IT vendor. It is not for the benefit of Burning Man's customers. This will not endure. It is our NetFlix moment.

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alt12
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:58 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Location: San Francisco

Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by alt12 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:30 pm

Giacamogio wrote:I just participated and I am highly dissatisfied with the tier system. It is for the benefit of Burning Man--and their IT vendor. It is not for the benefit of Burning Man's customers. This will not endure. It is our NetFlix moment.
Are you referring to the $7 processing fee or the $12 fee to delivery a piece of paper with USPS confirmation (go to the post-office, and almost anywhere in the US its like $2.80 for delivery confirmation).

So the ticket price is really $259, $359 and $409. Yowsers....

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TT120
Posts: 1777
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Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Orphans TOO!
Location: Sacramento, CA.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by TT120 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:38 pm

I just registered for 1 ticket at any price. Got a confirmation within minutes. Good to go, now the wait begins. I'm confident I'll get it.
Life's a bitch, then you go to Burning Man - Unjonharley
We welcome the stranger, but that doesn't mean we have to like them, nor they us, and that's alright. - AntiM

W6BJD

findmarc
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by findmarc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:08 pm

It would be interesting to see how many people register on Day One or Two, or by the end of the first week. Any chance of that info being shared with us by the Borg?????

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