New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Savannah » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:10 pm

findmarc wrote:It would be interesting to see how many people register on Day One or Two, or by the end of the first week. Any chance of that info being shared with us by the Borg?????
Findmarc, there is no need to cross-post before anyone has a chance to answer you. :) Welcome to the board, by the way!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by A Jester » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:11 pm

Giacamogio wrote:
MrMullen wrote:If you have not read your JRS, I will save you the work and post the good part, the part about selling tickets:
IMPORTANT 2012 BURNING MAN TICKET INFORMATION

Changes and improvements are afoot for ticket sales to Burning Man 2012! Here's a first look at what to expect -- stand by for more complete information soon, but for now (we know, you're wondering!) here's a quick overview:

2011 provided two compelling reasons to change how tickets are sold: a challenging ticket launch day, and then, our first-ever sold-out event. Before the Man even fell in BRC, we got busy with a deep examination of our processes and technology - and of new ideas, some of them straight from your feedback - to figure out how to provide successful, smooth ticket sales in 2012.

The big news: tickets to Burning Man 2012 will be offered via a lottery system. This solution offers a two-fold benefit: it eliminates the annual ticket sales rush by spreading out registration over time (no more sitting in "line" all day, no more getting kicked out of the queue, no sudden unwieldy server demand!) -- and it begins to address the challenges of scarcity. We are also intent upon creating a balance of opportunity across a few months time.

I planned for it. I was on time. I had my credit card ready. Why the lottery? I think it is for two reasons:

1. Burning Man is giving a helping hand to those who can't get their act together and buy their tickets on time. Instead of being ready day one, now they have a window of time to act.
2. Burning Man is not willing to pull their online ticketing business from the dingbat who screwed us all over last year. This is a classic misunderstanding of who the customer is and who the business supplier is.

I just registered for my tickets and noticed that I could only select one ticket price level--so, to play into their scarcity mentality, I selected a tier I am not comfortable paying for but willing to do it when the alternative is to not go at all. This is a clear tactic Burning Man is using to scare us into purchasing more expensive tickets earlier in the process which gives them more money in their pockets sooner.

This is not a customer-focused idea and it tarnishes Burning Man's image in my mind, and from what I can tell on eplaya, in the minds of many others.

Boo-hiss!
We'll have more details coming very soon (including deadlines and prices) but here's a summary of the major changes to how tickets will be obtained:

- You'll first register for the ticket lottery during a 2-week open registration period. At that time, you'll declare which of the pricing tiers you'd be willing to pay, and provide a valid credit card number.
- After the registration period, we will run separate lotteries for each ticket tier. If your name is selected, at this point your credit card will be billed, and you'll receive a ticket confirmation.
- There will be several consecutive lottery rounds.
- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person
- Ticket fulfillment will be held until early summer.

And YOU, JRS subscriber, will be the first to receive information and get a chance to register! Coming up soon, we will be announcing full details, pricing tiers, dates of the registration period and lottery round announcements, and of course a big fat FAQ.

PRE-SALES: We also announce the return of a limited Pre-Sale, timed around the holidays. These "pre-sale" tickets will be offered at a significantly higher price than the very lowest tier of tickets; they'll also be sold via a lottery system. (This also affords a chance for us all to experience the lottery program with a smaller subset of ticket buyers before the main rollout begins.)

REDUCED PRICE PROGRAMS: We continue to welcome and support attendance for lower-income participants, so we will be overhauling the Low Income and Scholarship ticket programs in 2012. The two similar programs are being merged into one, to create a hybrid that will retain the best features of each -- and serve more people, since we're also increasing the number of these tickets that will be available.

The JRS and http://tickets.burningman.com should be your primary source of information over any Facebook page, twitter feed, locker room or water cooler chatter". The first registration will start before the end of November. Read your JRS regularly to be informed.

Got questions now? We know you do!...but please wait until the full details are released before you send us your questions - all will be revealed shortly. DO NOT EMAIL us, we will not answer questions about the ticket process on any of our aliases until all the info is out.

Visit the ePlaya ticket threads at http://bit.ly/BM2012Tickets and discuss and ask questions openly so we can answer in a way that benefits more people.
I am going to be the first to say: STUPIDEST IDEA EVER!!!!

Let me get this straight, I have my shit together, buy two tickets (My wife and I) and have for the last eight YEARS and now BMORG wants to punish me? Now, I have enter a lottery and take my chances? Are the people who have their shit together getting punished because a handful of people could not decide to go to Burningman or could not get their shit together to buy a ticket between the month of January and July? Give me a break. A lot of things are not fair in this world, and not getting ticket because you could not be bothered to buy a ticket in a 6 month time span just means you should not go to Burningman. Seriously, not to be a drama cry baby, but I might not make it a 9th year.
I just participated in this process and I am highly dissatisfied. Poor job Burning Man

I just read these posts and I am highly dissatisfied with them. Poor formatting, walls of text, negative attitude, vagueness, an egocentric view on the universe (or at least the Org), and a lack of understanding about the reasons for this system all leave me wanting more.

I hope that in the future these posters will endeavor to provide better posts, or I will have to take my internetting elsewhere.
ZaphodBurner wrote:
The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BBadger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:52 pm

A Jester wrote:I just read these posts and I am highly dissatisfied with them. Poor formatting, walls of text, negative attitude, vagueness, an egocentric view on the universe (or at least the Org), and a lack of understanding about the reasons for this system all leave me wanting more.
I'm also quite dissatisfied (if that's the word) that people choose to quote entire messages when there is only a line or two of relevant context, or just to reply to some generality in the post, in a forum that already displays all prior messages. I'm not referring to yours, since it traces a history of dysfunctional replies.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by alt12 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:06 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
alt12 wrote:Yes heaven forbid people question the motivations of a private business with millions of dollars in yearly revenues. You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to be skeptical of BM LLC. In fact all you really need is to have been a former staff member or long-term volunteer with any level of responsibility... But I guess we should all just drink the kool-aid and assume its for the best of all possible worlds.
I have been struggling with this vague cloudy set of charges against the llc. I tend to look askance at them myself, but the complaints are pretty off-putting as well. They are unspecific and so often seem to come from people who volunteered long after they were burning out--which makes me less sympathetic. And this "private business" thing--I take it you mean something like "privately owned and operated". I don't know what to say, but that at some point the event was going to end unless permit applications, including Environmental Assessments, were going to be needed, and so, for good or ill, the running of the event was going to have to go to people who could somehow get that done, or the thing was going to end.
And that damn kool-ade--fuck you. I'm tired of having that thrown at me. We do not spend the week in a compound, listening to Larry rant over the loudspeakers, and when he's asleep tapes of Larry ranting, if we eat a diet too low in protein it's our own damn fault, and a really ugly tragedy to be tossed around so lightly is a real insult to its victims, both living and dead.
So yes, there might be a real value in the llc being more open. But the tactics of the people who want this are so immature that you only end up looking like spoiled children.

I find it equally off-putting the total dismissal of any concerns about BM LLC a priori because it is burning man. If you look at the post I was replying to, it was in response to the commenter's contemptuous statement about the "conspiracy theorists" regarding the ticket structure etc. as if any concerns about money as relates to burning man are by definition ludicrous and we should all just shut our mouths.

My point is only that burning man is indeed on planet earth and all the same rules apply. It is not Shangrila and it is not a fantasy land. There is power. There is concentration of power. And there is abuse of power. If you have any doubts about that I suggest you look closely at the 100 or so Friends of Larry who are in the circle inside the burn perimeter of the man burn every year. There are CEOs wealthy donors to BRAF etc. in there, some for their first burn ever. Just a very visual reminder that it is not a classless egalitarian utopia. Or you can ask why the same group of people year after year get the art money when the applications for art funding increase year after year diverse and worthy projects etc. Its all connections and who you know. The nepotism is rather overpowering at the org. Again, no different than any other organization in the world. But again that is my point. People are people and this kind of stuff will always occur (really, not so different from Washington is it?).

And I would just like to add, that personally I don't really care about any of this crap as none of that has impacted my experience at BM. But these are legitimate concerns. That is all I am saying and I challenge anyone that denies legitimacy or tries to ridicule them.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BBadger » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 am

alt12 wrote:I find it equally off-putting the total dismissal of any concerns about BM LLC a priori because it is burning man. If you look at the post I was replying to, it was in response to the commenter's contemptuous statement about the "conspiracy theorists" regarding the ticket structure etc. as if any concerns about money as relates to burning man are by definition ludicrous and we should all just shut our mouths.

...

And I would just like to add, that personally I don't really care about any of this crap as none of that has impacted my experience at BM. But these are legitimate concerns. That is all I am saying and I challenge anyone that denies legitimacy or tries to ridicule them.
Well what do you really expect? This isn't a customer service department. Even the mods address specific complaints only because it's their prerogative. Most of the people here are regular forum people. If we don't find these issues concerning, why are we going to treat them as anything more than an angry rant by someone who doesn't like change? Plus, with most of these complaints being the person's first--and often last--post, there is little incentive in actually trying to explain to people the full story.

People come to ePlaya all the time with these delusions that people here are really any different than anywhere else. That somehow because it is related to "burning man" that we all share their world-view, and will embrace their ideas, manifestos, rants, diatribes, complaints, or whatever. Then people get their panties in a knot when somebody challenges their idea, or dismisses it out of hand, or even gives them an answer they just don't like. People forget that "radical inclusion," just like "tolerance," doesn't mean you agree with the person's ideas, only that you're not going to kick them out because of them.

Honestly, grow a little spine. If your ideas are being challenged, that's simply how it is. If some of us think you're out in left-field making rants about how the (Burning) Man is fucking over the little man, then we are going to tell you. If you find that way off-putting, kindly don't let the door hit you on the way out. We're not going to force you out, but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 am

@alt12 - Just because someone dismisses a concern (or a number of concerns) doesn't mean that they dismiss all concerns without giving them any consideration. Just because you thought of something at the time you posted it doesn't mean that others haven't already given it hours of thought and discussion. I don't harbor any notions that Burning Man is perfect, nor are it's organizers. I've had great experiences working for and along with members of the Org over the last 8 or so years, but they're still human beings. But I just don't buy into or agree with the conspiracy theory vilification thing.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:12 am

trilobyte wrote:But I just don't buy into or agree with the conspiracy theory vilification thing.
Precisely. If the burn is like the big wide world in the possibility of cronyism, etc, it is also like the big wide world in the number of wild-eyed crackpots who don't really want to change things in any real way, but still expect reality to conform to their specifications.

I was thinking about my post last night, and about the cost of openness. Would I pay five dollars more a year in order to have it? At what point do wide signals of honesty become a drag in the system? Do I really want to spend more that a dozen hours a year auditing my vacation? Do I even want to spend that much?

And I don't even go to the big burns, so no one's taking my seat in the inner circle.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by finnster » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:47 pm

Hi, really sorry if this matter has already been discussed, but for you international customers, did your lottery entry confirmation email not state the country you're from in the address? Mine didn't and thinking if that needs to be fixed..

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by alt12 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 pm

BBadger wrote:

People come to ePlaya all the time with these delusions that people here are really any different than anywhere else. That somehow because it is related to "burning man" that we all share their world-view, and will embrace their ideas, manifestos, rants, diatribes, complaints, or whatever. Then people get their panties in a knot when somebody challenges their idea, or dismisses it out of hand, or even gives them an answer they just don't like. People forget that "radical inclusion," just like "tolerance," doesn't mean you agree with the person's ideas, only that you're not going to kick them out because of them.

Honestly, grow a little spine. If your ideas are being challenged, that's simply how it is. If some of us think you're out in left-field making rants about how the (Burning) Man is fucking over the little man, then we are going to tell you. If you find that way off-putting, kindly don't let the door hit you on the way out. We're not going to force you out, but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire.

It wasn't my personal idea being challenged, it was the general idea of people with criticisms of or doubts about the org's decisions and the motivations thereof . Good luck finding any comment of mine espousing said doutbs or criticisms in all my years on here. But I stand by what I said. Its not a personal axe of mine to grind but I think they are very real and very legitimate concerns.

PS - Definitely agree that there is a tremendous diversity of points of view on ePlaya, political, economic, social, and otherwise

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:26 pm

Is the main sale a ticket pool where all credit cards are in the same pool where random selection is done on up to 40,000? Or will there be 3 pools (one for each tier) and you will only be considered for the tier you are in?

By the first method selecting a higher price would give greater probability because you have 40,000 chances to get a ticket. In this case selecting $390, if you are selected in the first tier you would be charged $240? This does not seem to fit with the intent of the idea of having a tier system for the poor.

By the latter method, you only have 10,000 or 15,000 chances depending upon whether you opted for 1st tier or the latter two. By this option, Burning man would run the risk of many opting for the $240 tier and not being allowed to legally charge your card for a higher price and leaving the ORG in a lurch with a large number of tickets still being unsold.

So which one is it? No official statement that I have seen makes this clear which which process is being used.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:24 pm

Never mind... The FAQ seems to suggest a single pool random selection process where the tier you select determines the number of chances because it says:

Q: How does this year's ticket purchase system work?
A: During the registration period you will register for an opportunity to purchase tickets, choosing the highest level you can afford - you will automatically be entered in to the tiers below that. At the end of the registration period, a computerized random selection will be conducted to award tickets to participants. The Open Sale will work like a typical ticket purchase where you can purchase tickets immediately.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BBadger » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:27 pm

The former. Everybody signed up for a higher priced tier is also signed up for a lower priced tier. Tickets are drawn from cheapest to most expensive until the tickets run out or there are no more people who want that specific tier. The tiers still have a purpose: people who can only afford cheaper tiers can sign up to be eligible for only those tiers.

The tier system was only intended for the poor to the extent that it is a means for them to limit the maximum amount they can be charged. It isn't--and never was--intended to be a mechanism to favor the poor with cheaper tickets despite the lip-service posted about "take the highest priced tier you can afford." That mechanism is the domain of the low-income/scholarship tickets program.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by jorgebongo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:15 pm

Just Registered! Hope to see everyone out there. Good Vibes
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by anami » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:16 pm

So when to we decide to pick a new week where we go to the playa with no infrastructure, total self reliance and LNT enforced by everyone else there and leave all of the parts of BM that are reminiscent of the regular society that we go there to avoid?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:18 pm

anami wrote:So when to we decide to pick a new week where we go to the playa with no infrastructure, total self reliance and LNT enforced by everyone else there and leave all of the parts of BM that are reminiscent of the regular society that we go there to avoid?
It's there already, just look around a little.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by tahobob » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:46 pm

[b]FAIL!!![/b]

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Zardoz » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:52 am

So half of our camp did not get tickets for BM 2012. This is one of the reason I hate this whole ticket deal this year. Also I am pretty sure that they just pick the highest price you put on the registration as I have talked to a bunch of people and they all were charged the highest price they selected on the registration.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by kurimja » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:58 pm

No worries. There are already tickets available in the aftermarket as planned:
http://www.ticketright.com/resultsticke ... hwodQFWQ5Q

Blocks of up to 8 tickets at a very reasonable max of $1824 per ticket.

The joy of the new ticketing system.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by LittleJack » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:26 am

My favorites are on another, unnamed site (one owned by a very large auction and online payment site):

Two people have blocks of 8 tickets - one is selling them for $1,500 each, the other for $825 each.

However, they don't hold a candle to the person selling one VIP ticket for $6,6666.66 for a seat in Row 1. The seller's comments: Actual front row of section | Alcohol-free seating | Artist meet and greet | Includes unlimited food & drinks (beer, wine and liquor) | Parking Pass
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by AntiM » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:33 am

LittleJack wrote:My favorites are on another, unnamed site (one owned by a very large auction and online payment site):

Two people have blocks of 8 tickets - one is selling them for $1,500 each, the other for $825 each.

However, they don't hold a candle to the person selling one VIP ticket for $6,6666.66 for a seat in Row 1. The seller's comments: Actual front row of section | Alcohol-free seating | Artist meet and greet | Includes unlimited food & drinks (beer, wine and liquor) | Parking Pass

Damn, I didn't get a Parking Pass.
Or a shower valet.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Donna Matrix » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:13 am

[img]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3500/fogobarramenorbz2.gif[/img]

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:15 am

lol.

a class action lawsuit because you didnt get tickets to a sold out event ?

thats surely better than the petition !!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Donna Matrix » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:19 am

I just found it..... silly you.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:30 pm

FIGJAM wrote:First day of ticket sales in 2011 and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the people cried "This suck's, take this burden from us!"

And the Gods said "We hear you."

Then the tickets sold out and a darkness decended and the people cried "This suck's, take this burden from us!"

And the Gods said "We hear you."

So the Gods proclaimed "We heard you and lo there will hencforth be a lottery!"

And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth and the people cried "THIS SUCK'S, TAKE THIS BURDEN FROM US!!!!!!"

Such is the nature of Gods and men. 8)
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