New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by gyre » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:05 am

Klondon wrote:Normally I go on line and purchase two tickets for my wife and I. Now, as insurance, I'm going to ask x amount of friends to join the lottery as well, knowing that I can always sell any additional tickets that were won using this approach.
Just like the scalpers?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by GustSomeJuy » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:16 am

I just made an account to tell lemur something:

Will you just listen to yourself?

Whether or not you are right about your arguments, you come across like a self-absorbed troll like ass hole.

That is all.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:28 am

GustSomeJuy wrote:I just made an account to tell lemur something:

Will you just listen to yourself?

Whether or not you are right about your arguments, you come across like a self-absorbed troll like ass hole.

That is all.
hey!!
i never claimed i wasnt an asshole..

in fact, it takes one to know.. thats how i knew about the impending storm of assholes..
Don't link to anything here!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by 10538 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:32 am

It seems to me that a lottery could work fine so long as there is clarity about the order in which various tiers get put on sale. In all likelihood, the process will be one of two logical alternatives: either do the lowest tier first and then do other tiers in increasing order of price or do the highest price tier first and then do the remaining tiers in decreasing order of price.

Let's say they do the first method. People will probably do one of two things: they'll either sign up for as many tiers as they can afford starting at the lowest tier or sign up for the upper tiers if they can afford those to leave the lower tiers open for those who can't afford the upper tiers. I can see that natural human instinct to get the lowest price for everything would lead people to sign up for all tiers of the lowest tiers, but burner spirit might lead to some altruism and those who could afford the more expensive tickets would refrain from entering the lottery for the cheaper tickets. In either case, tickets at the lowest tier would go first, and then you'd do lotteries for the rest in increasing order of price until all tickets were gone. That would, it seems to me, create one big problem: people who couldn't afford the most expensive tier could get shut out while people who could afford to pay more might get tickets for less than their limit. But this is the way that I think it will go. Interestingly, if they did things this way, you almost wouldn't need a lottery for the highest tier because you could just have a price for those that goes up as time goes by so that you just have to pay more as you get closer to the date of the event. This method seems somewhat fair (and is consistent with economic reality where goods go up in price as they get scarcer), and would be completely fair if you could solve the bargain-hunting problem of people joining the lottery at a tier lower than what they can afford and are willing to pay.

But they could do the second method -- put up tickets at the highest price first. They could, perhaps, put up as many tickets as sold in 2011 for the highest tier in the first lottery, which would mean that everyone for whom the certainty of getting a ticket was more important than the price would join the lottery at the highest tier, but there would be tickets left for those who could only afford the lower tier. This would work for everything except for the fact that some people who could pay the highest price could lose in that lottery, join a lower tier lottery and win shutting out someone who could not afford the higher price tier.

There is a third alternative they could use that doesn't even require a lottery: a silent auction. Basically all they have to do is to forget about tiers and just ask everyone to register and say how many tickets they want (subject to whatever limits they want to set) and what price per ticket they are willing to pay. Then you rank all registered buyers in order of their bid and fill the orders highest price first. Then everyone pays exactly what they are willing and able to pay, and, presumably there are enough tickets go go around.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by cpart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:34 am

Klondon wrote: Now, as insurance, I'm going to ask x amount of friends to join the lottery as well, knowing that I can always sell any additional tickets that were won using this approach.

You're just as good as the scalpers. This totally voids the lottery system. Good job on wrecking the new system before it even starts.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Bob » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:39 am

Really, maybe we're just suffering from a mathematical jargon issue -- how do we know last year's ticket sales didn't involve probabilistic algorithms?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:42 am

well, and this all presupposes there will be more applicants, than tickets..........
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:02 am

Nerdling wrote:
cpart wrote: DEY TOOK OUR JERBS!
DERP A DERR...

But seriously though, this whole mess is just putting a negative spin on the whole experience and I don't like it. It's even worse because this would have been my first BM and it was supposed to be a wonderful, possibly life altering experience. But now all this lottery bullshit is really bringing me down.

Rationalize it all you want, be it "If you want a ticket, you'll get a ticket" or "Everything will be okay, pass it on." or "The forces that be will guide us" or whatever, the facts are the facts: there is a chance (however slim) that some of us won't get tickets based purely on the luck of the draw, and frankly I don't like those odds.

So unless they have more details to smoothe this whole thing over (which if they did, they'd have done it long before now just to calm everyone the fuck down) , this situation just blows.
Ding ding ding ding! You hit the nail on the head. Still a work in progress. Isn't that reassuring? NOT!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:04 am

ygmir wrote:well, and this all presupposes there will be more applicants, than tickets..........
Yes, but if you read the announcement, that presupposition is anticipated already figured into the equation. (maybe not for this year, but for subsequent years.)
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Killbuck » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:05 am

Well, I figured I might as well get on the band wagon!!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by unjonharley » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:07 am

ygmir wrote:well, and this all presupposes there will be more applicants, than tickets..........

I see lower attendance this year... "The next big thing crowd"" that jump on last year will have moved on.. A lot of the Burning generation are getting older and staying home.. There seems to be a lot of big theme camp burn out this year also..

As fucked up as it sounds,, The lottery can work.. The part that wont work is....One tier selling out and another not.. With no way to move from tier to tier when a sell out happens..

Say I bid on the top tier.. All those tickets sell before my number comes up.. If there are tickets in the third tier, I have no way of knowing or rebidding to the third tier.. To clean up this mess will take time.. By then I'm off the build a Tractor for the Garden Tractor Pull this year..

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Jewel Man » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:09 am

Ok, here is the ticket. We start a movement where we don't enter the fucked up Lotto to buy tickets but instead we start a movement (but not a bowel movement). The movement is called Occupy Black Rock City. We go out to the Playa and build an illegal squatter camp before the BMORG starts to build the city and we start to protest against organizations that start overly complicated mandated ticket processes that will result in only a lucky few getting privileged tickets. These organizations refuse to recognize and reward Burners who plan for an event 9-12 months in advance and who are willing to voluntarily give their money to the bankers at BMORG interest free for nine months. We truly will be the 1%'ers, the 1%'ers at BM that refused to enter the Lotto and bow down to the BMORG. The org that refused to listen to the people on ePlaya!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Bob » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:09 am

Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:15 am

Kernul Killbuck wrote:Well, I figured I might as well get on the band wagon!!

.

I see a theme........

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:17 am

Which brings up another issue. How are they going to generate the names? Computer generated? Pieces of paper in a fish bowl? Will the drawings be public? Etc.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:18 am

Kernul Killbuck wrote:Well, I figured I might as well get on the band wagon!!

.
Wish I could read the small print!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by unjonharley » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:20 am

jkisha wrote: Will the drawings be public? Etc.

Shirily, you josh

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lavender_green » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:21 am

Jewel Man wrote:We go out to the Playa and build an illegal squatter camp before the BMORG starts to build the city and we start to protest against organizations that start overly complicated mandated ticket processes that will result in only a lucky few getting privileged tickets. These organizations refuse to recognize and reward Burners who plan for an event 9-12 months in advance and who are willing to voluntarily give their money to the bankers at BMORG interest free for nine months. We truly will be the 1%'ers, the 1%'ers at BM that refused to enter the Lotto and bow down to the BMORG. The org that refused to listen to the people on ePlaya!
1) Good luck dealing with the Bureau of Land Management, it's federal land. Why don't you go try it first and see how it goes. I'll be back here waiting for the gates to open with the other 50,000 people who get tickets (in your parlance: "only the lucky few").

2) Yes, I can completely see how your righteous anger and comparison to the Occupy movement is valid. Because, of course, buying a ticket for a vacation in the desert, a luxury item, is pretty much the same thing as the things the Occupy movement is trying to speak up against. Kudos!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:23 am

unjonharley wrote:
jkisha wrote: Will the drawings be public? Etc.

Shirily, you josh
Yes, I was. And don't call me Shirily. :wink:
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Joshy Neurotic » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:26 am

Shpilkus - then you should take it apon yourself to make your campmates aware, and kick there ass into gear.

cpart - i live in canada, i got a tier 1 ticket last year ( i was #26 in line woohoo ;) ) which is what, 260 or 280 right … now … after rthe currency conversion, importing it to canada, it was just over 350. for the cheapest ticket…. i used to get the pre-sale and that was over 400 after everything was said and done.

10538 - i like the second idea. start the lottery at the highest price range and work your way down to the lowest. makes the most sense.

Jewel Man- and anyone else who thinks a occupy black rock is a good idea. This would destroy the event. Black Rock City is not a city that runs on casinos, mcdonalds, starbucks, etc. to run. it runs SPECIFICLY on the will of the people attending, the will of the BMORG, and the will of the people willing to go out, weeks before and after the event to setup, tear down, clean up, and make the playa natural again. Thereis a lot of insurance involved, there are a lot of government stipulations BMORG has to meet to be able to create black rock year after year. If you were to go and set up a random occupy encampment in front of the bmorg camp, or say inside center camp, or near the BMIR station , or where ever that isn't a designated camping area, it could possibly violate how BMORG gets PERMISSION to create this city we all love.
Personally, if any one does create a occupy movement and sets up camp where they shouldn't, i would hope the bunnys, the santas, the nuns, the dust storms, dpw, and myself, would come and destroy ur camp and make you go to where you are suppose to camp.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Jewel Man » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:28 am

lavender_green wrote:
Jewel Man wrote:We go out to the Playa and build an illegal squatter camp before the BMORG starts to build the city and we start to protest against organizations that start overly complicated mandated ticket processes that will result in only a lucky few getting privileged tickets. These organizations refuse to recognize and reward Burners who plan for an event 9-12 months in advance and who are willing to voluntarily give their money to the bankers at BMORG interest free for nine months. We truly will be the 1%'ers, the 1%'ers at BM that refused to enter the Lotto and bow down to the BMORG. The org that refused to listen to the people on ePlaya!
1) Good luck dealing with the Bureau of Land Management, it's federal land. Why don't you go try it first and see how it goes. I'll be back here waiting for the gates to open with the other 50,000 people who get tickets (in your parlance: "only the lucky few").

2) Yes, I can completely see how your righteous anger and comparison to the Occupy movement is valid. Because, of course, buying a ticket for a vacation in the desert, a luxury item, is pretty much the same thing as the things the Occupy movement is trying to speak up against. Kudos!

C'mon now. Don't have that condescending negative attitude. BM is not a vacation, it is a job. I have to work 24x7 out there on the playa to have a good time and I am pissed that the BMORG is trying to take that right away from me just so the ticket process can be more communistic. Reward people who work hard, plan ahead and actually contribute to the experience as opposed to the people who at the last minute show up at the door empty handed and ask where can I get a drink.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Canoe » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:42 am

lemur wrote:
Canoe wrote: A very material difference.
i didnt say it wasnt factually different.
That isn't what material difference means.
If you don't understand the difference between material and factual, that is a material difference.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Joshy Neurotic » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:42 am

jewel man - i can understand your anger, as i am annoyed at the new system. but i am willing to wait and see what they have up there sleeves.. im still drooling over what the possible theme may be, and all the great art i will see. i can also see some of the parody humour in your first post. but the occupy movement doesnt belong in brc. simply put. brc, is a vacation. unless you are under contract by bmorg, or apart of bmorg, you chose to attend, you chose to build, you chose to work, or you dont and chose to be a spectator. either way, you chose to do this.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:44 am

Canoe wrote:
lemur wrote:
Canoe wrote: A very material difference.
i didnt say it wasnt factually different.
That isn't what material difference means.
If you don't understand the difference between material and factual, that is a material difference.
the hair splitters convention is in the other forum
Don't link to anything here!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Canoe » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:55 am

cpart wrote:
Minxy wrote: No.
The highest price was $320. People keep saying $360, so maybe they upped the price after I bought mine (mid July)?
Excerpt from: Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks, Volume 15, Issue #20, July 8, 2011
TICKET UPDATE: NO MORE $320's, WALK-IN OUTLETS SOLD OUT, NO SALES AT GATE
All Burning Man tickets at the $320 level have been sold. A limited number of tickets are still available at the $360 level, and we anticipate these will sell out as well. Members of our community interested in attending Burning Man 2011 are encouraged to purchase their tickets now. There will be no ticket sales at the Burning Man Gate this year, and tickets are no longer available at our Walk-In Ticket Outlets.
4.669
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That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Canoe » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:58 am

lemur wrote:
Canoe wrote:
lemur wrote: i didnt say it wasnt factually different.
That isn't what material difference means.
If you don't understand the difference between material and factual, that is a material difference.
the hair splitters convention is in the other forum
Not hair splitting, a very material difference.
Hint: go back and read the related post. You might eventually get the difference.
4.669
.
That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by CapnJoe45 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:59 am

Hey Lemur! Isn't this the stupid animal that runs over the cliff to his death. Fitting name for you. :D

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Canoe » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:01 am

CapnJoe45 wrote:Hey Lemur! Isn't this the stupid animal that runs over the cliff to his death. Fitting name for you. :D
Better: it was a machine (built by Disney?) that threw them over the cliff for the cameras. Only it was lemmings... :cry:
4.669
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That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sham » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:07 am

Do I have to gently remind everyone to not be doing personal attacks?
I have a gun and I know how to use it!
Sham....

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Nerdling » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:10 am

gyre wrote:
Klondon wrote:Normally I go on line and purchase two tickets for my wife and I. Now, as insurance, I'm going to ask x amount of friends to join the lottery as well, knowing that I can always sell any additional tickets that were won using this approach.
Just like the scalpers?
He doesn't really have much of a choice now does he? He did say he planned to resell (no where did he say for profit) so any extra tickets he got (if at all) would be going to burners who want them. So unless he plans to profit, which it sounds like he doesn't, he's leaps and bounds better than the scalpers.

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