New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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cpart
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by cpart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:44 pm

Sola Gangsta wrote:I think it's more logical to raise ticket prices than to have a lottery and use the money to make the burn better while keeping away the uncommitted.


Now we have to have a lot of money to be committed to Burning Man? Screw that, they should make the price however high they need to, to completely cover the cost. Raising the cost should be out of necessity only. Not to weed people out.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Quaneshia Honeycooch » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:46 pm

[quote]Is this the beginning of the end? If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it is a turd. The Lotto is a turd and will go down in history as the biggest disaster since bottled water.[/quote]

You obviously didn't attend the year that they had the medallions.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:47 pm

If one wants to set aside a certain number of tickets for the poor coming to the burn, let them first show that they are not burning man virgins. I think they do have an essay as a requirement for low income? Let them show pics of their prior burns and how they have contributed to the event. FIrst timers are usually spectators and are often the least prepared.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:49 pm

cpart wrote:
Sola Gangsta wrote:I think it's more logical to raise ticket prices than to have a lottery and use the money to make the burn better while keeping away the uncommitted.


Now we have to have a lot of money to be committed to Burning Man? Screw that, they should make the price however high they need to, to completely cover the cost. Raising the cost should be out of necessity only. Not to weed people out.
If the BLM only permits 50,000 people raising costs would have many advantages; and I think it could be considered necessary.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lavender_green » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:56 pm

Jewel Man wrote:BM is not a vacation, it is a job. I have to work 24x7 out there on the playa to have a good time and I am pissed that the BMORG is trying to take that right away from me just so the ticket process can be more communistic.
It's not a JOB unless you work for the BMORG or are otherwise paid to be out there. You have to "work 24/7 to have a good time"? Ha ha. Sounds like a first world problem to me! You have to work hard at your vacation to have a good time, and somehow think you're entitled ("have a right") to attend a private festival?

Where's that "stop practicing radical self-entitlement" button when you need it?

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by A Jester » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:59 pm

Every ten pages or so I'm going to come in here and remind us all that they haven't told us exactly how the lottery system works. So, to criticize it, or say you're not going to attend because of it...

wait, is the whole internet trolling me? I shouldn't really have to finish my above thought, right?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:00 pm

A Jester wrote:Every ten pages or so I'm going to come in here and remind us all that they haven't told us exactly how the lottery system works. So, to criticize it, or say you're not going to attend because of it...

wait, is the whole internet trolling me? I shouldn't really have to finish my above thought, right?
Hey, I don't care. I already know I won't like it even when I do understand it. :shock:
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:05 pm

you'd think the Beatles we're playing or something....
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BABSTA » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:11 pm

As an overseas burner I have to say that this really makes things difficult. Our planning is already well underway and January ticket sales have always given us enough time to book reasonable flights, raise money for the camp/art etc. and re-organise default work comitments. Not to mention letting us remain safe in the knowledge that if we are organised and save our money we will ghet a ticket and the money we spend on gear/vehicle storage in the US annually has not gone to waste because we will indeed be riding the dust again... as planned...

The basis for my argument is that the lottery winners are not to be announced until (USA) summer. If so, why? Why not the lottery system with the winners announced by late January?? If not all tickets are "sold" before the firts lottery then have a second or third lottery later in the year... but don't punish the early bird. Please.

This puts a massive amount of doubt as to how much money we can and will put on the line each year in the hope that we may win a lottery. These things take time and effort and cash. And now with a seed of doubt lingering over the planning and money spending for an additional 3 or 4 months (or whatever - TBC) it will really take some of the fun and possibilities out of the build up...

Its a fact that if people have spent $$$ prior to the lottery winners being announced then they would be stupid not to get non-burner friends to enter the lottery on there behalf. Its not scalping. Its protecting your investment. To ensure our investment is protected and we get to burn with all our long lost friend whome we see annually at best. And this practise can and will not be regulated and as people have said will make a mockery of the lottery in many respects as well. Scalpers join the fun... guaranteed profit to be made come August 2012. Just win the lottery.

I guess it is too late this year to change tact but this definitely has the scope to ruin things for a lot of well meaning, organised international burners who will have to wait until a few months before the burn to make the commitment and sort their shit. This will surely have an impact on what we are able to bring to the party... the tangible stuff anyway...

So good luck everyone. By any means we will get there - we have to - as the wheels were in motion for my global counterparts to attend the next burn long before the last burn sold out. And I doubt we'll be refunded our investment by offer of the excuse well "we didnt win the lottery".

To all those that are also incumbered with the feeling that its too late to turn back now... we can only hope that a little playa love visits early this time round.

Charge on!!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by bradtem » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:29 pm

When you have more demand than supply on tickets, you have to exclude somebody. That's hard to do for an event that claims it is radically inclusive.

There are many ways to do the exclusion. Many are already in place. For example, holding the event in a harsh remote environment excludes people who can't handle that environment, or even those who don't like it. The remoteness excludes those without the time or the money to get there. The self-reliance also excludes those without the resources or dedication to overcome this. Truth is, the city and org have both been quite deliberate about these sorts of exclusions and they have kept the population down.

Beyond that, the following methods are available:
  • Money -- just make tickets more expensive, ideally by uniform price auction, util demand matches supply
  • Aftermarkets -- let an active resale market figure out who gets a ticket, with a combination of money (scalpers and ebay sales) and luck & connections (finding somebody selling at face value)
  • Time -- give tickets to those who are in line first, no more tickets after cap is reached
  • Lottery -- assign tickets by luck
  • Invitation -- judge ticket buyers, select the most desired
  • Impediments -- reduce demand for tickets by making them non-transferable, or only good for entry on some days, etc.
Which do you prefer? Or are their combinations that work? In the past, Time and first-come-first-serviced affected how much you paid but not if you got a ticket. Last year, after time ran out, aftermarkets took over.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by trilobyte » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:37 pm

@mgb327 - sorry to hear about the personal situation with your wife, but I think this is different. For a start, the BMOrg is doing what they can to be up-front about it. If anything, they're being too up-front and have told us about their being a change to the program before all the details could be announced. On the other, they're giving us more lead-time on the change than if they waited a few more weeks to spill it. If they only do a single round drawing and everybody who wants to go has money in the bank and is registered, that still puts the odds of 'winning' at about 85%. With multiple rounds, your odds get better. It's also worth pointing out that the full details are not yet available, it's entirely possible that the new process offers 'sure thing' opportunities for people (at whatever tier/price).

@mydearfriend - my creativity comes from a part of me that thinks a lot more positively than yours, I think. It's absurd, optimistic, emotional (and slightly squishy) and believes just about anything is possible. I wish we had complete details and information available now, but it is what it is, and we'll get that information soon enough (most likely a full 9 months ahead of the event). Don't let your emotions be ruled by fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

@jkisha - we do not yet know the full details of the lottery. While it does imply chance, for all we know there may be some 'sure thing' opportunities for those willing to pay one of the higher tiers. If you think about it, 2011 event tickets implied chance for a lot of people. Somewhere in the vicinity of 20K tickets sold in the first day, more than half of them didn't get the lowest tier that they wanted, and a significant number of people didn't get either first or second tier tickets that they were hoping to get. As for your work in progress comment, I don't believe that to be entirely true. I understand that the plan has been determined, it's the documentation and finalizing of dates that likely need to be ironed out before they can be officially announced.

@cpart - $320 was the highest regular tier, but $360 was the walk-in price. When retail tickets were recalled from walk-in outlets (at the end of the walk-in sales period), those tickets were sold online at the $360 price.

@BMG - good plan (reserving judgment).

@Malicious - Remember that BMOrg is not looking for suggestions or alternative plans on how to handle ticket sales for next year - they've already got one. The best thing that people could do is to post their questions and concerns on ePlaya about the ticket lottery system, so that those questions and concerns may be addressed in some way.

@Siouxanne - there will be changes to the low-income and scholarship ticket programs this year, offering more low-income ticket opportunities than last year. Details to follow.

@10538 - expect details on the ticket lottery to be posted in the near future.

@Kernul Killbuck - brilliant! I'll take $10 in scratchers, a slurpee, and whatever it comes to on pump #7…

@unjonharley - a decrease in population is entirely possible (it's happened before). But yeah, a lottery could work. I'm waiting for the particulars before I see what tier we're betting on.

@Jewel Man - wow, where do I begin? My guess is that if you went out to the site in mid to late July (and actually got the right location, since the event site moves between a couple specific locations), the Bureau Of Land Management would have no trouble whatsoever in removing you from the premises prior to BMOrg and DPW getting started. The "lucky few" comment seems inappropriate as there will likely be something in the neighborhood of 55,000 tickets. With demand likely in the range of 60-65K, the lucky few would actually be the vast majority. I'm not even going to comment on the whole 'occupy' angle to it.

@maxrenn - the old system already had plenty of possibilities for people to abuse it, a ticket lottery doesn't 'open up' any new opportunities. If anything, it potentially closes the loop. Keep in mind, you're on the hook financially for the tickets you're registering for. On the old system, I could just get a few friends to jump on the site and get in the queue and whoever got in used my cc info (or theirs, with me paying them back) to get tickets. On a registration based lottery, I'm making the commitment to purchase all those tickets should I and my friends win. Unless you've got plenty of disposable income and can afford to potentially tie up a couple grand in extra tickets (which you wouldn't receive until early summer), that's probably not a strategy you can afford.

@macstarr - I appreciate your taking the time to register and voice your concerns. While the particulars of the program have not yet been made available, I'd say that the odds are very much in favor of you and your friends. Approximately 55K tickets (just a guess, not official) and 60-65K demand means that even if there was only a single drawing, there's an 85% chance everything will work out just fine. With multiple drawings, the odds go up. Yes, there's a possibility of disappointment, but there's also a much larger possibility of success. ANY situation where there is more demand than supply guarantees exclusion no matter how tickets are sold (and that's unfortunate). Let's see what the actual plan is before calling for it to be abandoned.

@bradtem - I disagree, I think non-transferrable tickets is a horrible idea. As you describe, would require significant additional cost to administrate and process participants' ability to return tickets at any time up to the end of the event (so long as there was 'demand' in the queue). The irony here is that you're also the person who's posted quite extensively on the need to streamline the process at the gate, yet name verification on non-transferrable tickets would likely slow things down.

@Kykyri - my understanding is it was something developed by a number of the folks within the BMOrg, discussed extensively, and ultimately approved by the board. Hard to really say whether it's a bad idea yet, until details of the plan are posted we don't know enough to make an intelligent, informed decision. Welcome to ePlaya, btw. :)

@Presto - Remember that BMOrg is not looking for suggestions or alternative plans on how to handle ticket sales for next year - they've already got one (and they've been thinking about it for months). The best thing that people could do is to post their questions and concerns on ePlaya about the ticket lottery system, so that those questions and concerns may be addressed in some way.

@Shambala - it's the FUDdites…

@capjbadger - Pah. How about waiting until you've actually got the details of the plan before passing judgment on it? It could totally suck. But it might work.

@Franklin1948 - no, it's not. More than a third of the 2011 event tickets were sold in the first few hours, and I understand it passed the halfway mark within a few weeks. It doesn't appear to be about the money, or about nickeling and diming a few extra bucks on interest income, or trying to scam people into paying more for tickets. As for the 'new people running things' comment, the 2012 event is being planned by the same BMOrg (and individuals within the org) that were involved in previous years' events.

@meaghanq - a lottery system has the potential to punish those who plan, but the particulars have not yet been posted. It's very likely that there will be some behind-the-scenes effort to weed out registrations from known scalpers, we'll see.

@Rumbler - looking at just the estimated supply/demand side of it, the odds of getting a ticket are probably not worse than 85%. The odds get better if there are multiple drawings (as they've stated), and if campmates are informed. We'll all have a much better idea as soon as the additional details and FAQ info gets posted. Fingers crossed, I'm hoping that happens soon. And hopefully everything works out for you and your campmates :)

@A Jester - very well said.

@Babsta - winners would be notified after the drawing, but ticket fulfillment would not happen until summer. International orders were always will-call though, so unless something changes I'm not sure the last bit would even apply for you. We should have details soon, hopefully it works out for your camp's planning.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:44 pm

trilobyte wrote:
@jkisha - we do not yet know the full details of the lottery. While it does imply chance, for all we know there may be some 'sure thing' opportunities for those willing to pay one of the higher tiers. If you think about it, 2011 event tickets implied chance for a lot of people. Somewhere in the vicinity of 20K tickets sold in the first day, more than half of them didn't get the lowest tier that they wanted, and a significant number of people didn't get either first or second tier tickets that they were hoping to get. As for your work in progress comment, I don't believe that to be entirely true. I understand that the plan has been determined, it's the documentation and finalizing of dates that likely need to be ironed out before they can be officially announced.
*wining and pounding cane* But I don't want to pay a higher price, I want to pay a LOWER PRICE! I'm old and poor.
Hey I really don't care what they do as long as I get a ticket; but it would be nice if you had a chance at a lower price ticket without excluding yourself from any ticket what so ever.
Time will tell; but until then, can't a grouchy old man just enjoy being grouchy? :shock:
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by bradtem » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:07 pm

I do believe in a streamlined gate, trilobyte. That's why I would not design a non-transferable ticket system with the problems you describe. And I would definitely not want people showing ID as a matter of course to get in, as that's both slow and privacy-invading. Done well -- and of course that is something that costs money -- such a system would be 99.9% online and have low administrative overhead, and cancellation of a ticket for refund would definitely be something you want to almost entirely do online.

Note that cancellation ability might have a negative revenue effect. I have not seen information on how many tickets go never used. This year I don't know if that went down (due to the eager aftermarket) or up (due to speculators who did not manage to sell.)

However, while the technical issues of how to do non-transferable tickets are interesting, this is not the forum for it. Of more interest to me in this forum is the effect they might have on the BM community. In the past it's been reasonably common to know of people who had "extra" tickets (because they deliberately got extra or got some for somebody who decided to bail out) who then came in as a white knight for another friend, or even for a stranger. No-xfer tickets would eliminate most of that. You could only return your ticket and rescue the first person on the waiting list, whom you might never meet. (I also envision "with you" tickets where one person buys N tickets and N-1 people can enter the event with her. Such tickets can be "sold" but under a pretty heavy constraint, one not likely to be used by serious scalpers. It does allow you to get a ticket for somebody who is going to come with you, and then switch who that is at the last minute, but it also means if somebody decides not to go with you at the last minute they are SOL, you can't give them "their" ticket. (Though you could have permanently allocated the ticket to them the month it was purchased, allowing them to come with you, or on their own, or to cancel the ticket for refund.)


This is a change in how it works. It has several large benefits. Almost no scalping. All sales at face value -- or the org can elect to raise face value high as sellout approaches and capture all the value normally lost to scalpers. No ticket hoarding, unused tickets are returned and given to those who signed up first, or lottery winners, or whatever. No will call. The elimination of scalping and extra ticket purchases might be quite dramatic -- it might cause the event to avoid a false sell-out. Many music events have false sell-outs, where scalpers buy a lot of tickets, causing the event to be sold out far sooner than it would due to real demand, or even when it would not have sold out at all. I don't know if BM is in that category, but certainly eliminating scalpers reduces the overdemand a fair bit.

But it has costs. Not just the development and implementation costs which can be discussed in other fora if you wish, but the changes to community dynamic.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by tamarakay » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:15 pm

I thought the easiest fix would have been for the ticketing agency to update and "man up" their equipment, or BMORG hire a ticketing company who could actually handle the load.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by capjbadger » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:16 pm

trilobyte wrote: @capjbadger - Pah. How about waiting until you've actually got the details of the plan before passing judgment on it? It could totally suck. But it might work.
What part of repeated posts of "Wait for the details" wasn't clear? :lol:

The part that is already clear and a pile of crap is the replacement of rewarding those that have their shit together and replacing it with luck. As a poker player, I know all too well luck is a fickle bitch. It's amazing how often that 1 in 10 card comes on the river to beat you. ;)

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by sandgoddess » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:29 pm

:twisted:
Remember that BMOrg is not looking for suggestions or alternative plans on how to handle ticket sales for next year -
Literal Translation from English to Burner English:
BMOrg is not looking for suggestions or alternative plans. BMOrg is NOT looking for suggestions. BMOrg is not only not looking for suggestions, BMOrg is not taking suggestions. The Lottery option is not an option. It is not negotiable. It's a done deal. This is NOT a joke. BMOrg has no intentions of, nor is BMORG open to, changing this decision. Eplaya is a semi-safe place for you to vent your frustration, however it is not a suggestion box. The suggestion box is located at Center Camp every year, and is called a Census. If you did not fill out a Census, you missed on your chance for your comment to be effective and included in any future decision making. If you did fill out a Census, chances are, your comments may or may not have been read, and taken into consideration. Comments on Radical Inclusion are now closed. Case Closed. Meeting was adjourned in September.

Remember That.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:37 pm

Well on a hopeful note...Does the company Netflicks ring any bells? They didn't want any feedback either. But the got it, and the totally reversed their strategy.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by BeachBum » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:37 pm

I'm also one of the hundreds who just registered for ePlaya just to say how stupid is this lottery idea.
Six time burner, planning a significant art installation at our camp for 2012.

In 2011 there were two problems:
1) a challenging ticket launch day, and 2) the first-ever sold-out event, with a demand of like 60,000 for 50,000 tickets

So, the lottery will get everybody double ordering and get the scalpers in the picture, leading to an early attempted
demand of 100,000+. Great solution to ameliorate problem #2 :-(

How about a more commonsense solution to these two problems:

1) The reason it was a challenging ticket launch day was that the lower price tickets were put on sale first.
Solution: Don't do that. Duh. If you want to have tiered prices, have everyone who wants a slight discount on
the price pay in full up front, send in a request for a discount on paper with the reasons, and hold a lottery of
requested discounts. Make the process difficult so only those willing to spend the time on it can qualify for
the discount refund lottery to weed out those who aren't serious about needing a discount. Heck, give extra
chances in the requested discount lottery for verifiable sob stories.

2) Solution: Like most of other few hundred new ePlaya registrants said, match a ticket to a name.
Gets the %$%^ scalpers out of the picture. Please get them out of the picture! Charge a return fee to
pay for the extra office work. The gate is a two step process already, the search and then taking tickets.
Have the search, which takes the time, and then have the cars move up 20 yards for the ticket match to
happen. Not hard. Many technical ways for this ticket match to happen, a restricted Android app over
secure local WiFi is one way that would work.

Please don't subject us to this lottery system.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Minxy » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:48 pm

tamarakay wrote:I thought the easiest fix would have been for the ticketing agency to update and "man up" their equipment, or BMORG hire a ticketing company who could actually handle the load.

Ding, ding, WINNER!!! WINNER!!! :D
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by bradtem » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:52 pm

Well, strictly speaking the lottery will still reward those who have their shit together, in that it will reward those who take appropriate steps to game the lottery and assure they have enough tickets for their group, and then sell the remaining tickets in the aftermarket either at face value or at profit. The luck will only apply to people less organized about buying tickets; some of them will get tickets and some will not, based on luck. Others will get tickets based on wealth, via the auction aftermarket, or based on luck, via the face-value aftermarket.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by lucky420 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:17 pm

oh for fucks sake!! I've heard less whining in a room full of 5 year olds...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Lassen Forge » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:17 pm

this thing has grown faster than a crowd in Ogawa plaza!!!

last year my sig line DID say "Those who plan... burn. See you in the dust!"

Now... I want you to walk up to a dollar slot machine and tell me how you plan on that thing hitting? Serious - tell me how you can base reality on a gaming bet? You have enough money lying loose to drop $5000-$20000+ on a camp this year and not know you're gonna get to go?

I've always said this is the Org's private party and they can decide who they want to be there or not... but to require you to gamble to show up, um... the old way I KNEW I had a ticket, even if I had to pay 3rd tier to get it... this way, you're asking me to put my camp's hard-earned bucks on the line on a gamble? Or to dig into my pocket to cover what they paid because they lost the gamble to get a ticket?

This is becoming ridiculous in a fashion I never thought of before. I get to gamble that all my crew gets tix because we spent the camp dues on infra, then I get to spend my money out of my pocket to cover 4 members who got screwed on the lotto... or even worse, I get to cover all the crews money because I don't get one... and we don't put up our camp this year...

Sorry... I want to gamble I walk into a casino, not buy tickets for a gig I plan my ass off to pull off. Even if the odds are 95% in my favor, you want to bet 6 months of work and a few grand that I don't hit that 5%? Id rather pay the top tiermthan have a chance I'll take a massive bite like that.

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theCryptofishist
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:24 pm

nothing to see here...Sorry
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:26 pm

Hey, moderators are supposed to walk the company line, no? :? :shock: :shock:

But I'm right there with ya.
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:this thing has grown faster than a crowd in Ogawa plaza!!!

last year my sig line DID say "Those who plan... burn. See you in the dust!"

Now... I want you to walk up to a dollar slot machine and tell me how you plan on that thing hitting? Serious - tell me how you can base reality on a gaming bet? You have enough money lying loose to drop $5000-$20000+ on a camp this year and not know you're gonna get to go?

I've always said this is the Org's private party and they can decide who they want to be there or not... but to require you to gamble to show up, um... the old way I KNEW I had a ticket, even if I had to pay 3rd tier to get it... this way, you're asking me to put my camp's hard-earned bucks on the line on a gamble? Or to dig into my pocket to cover what they paid because they lost the gamble to get a ticket?

This is becoming ridiculous in a fashion I never thought of before. I get to gamble that all my crew gets tix because we spent the camp dues on infra, then I get to spend my money out of my pocket to cover 4 members who got screwed on the lotto... or even worse, I get to cover all the crews money because I don't get one... and we don't put up our camp this year...

Sorry... I want to gamble I walk into a casino, not buy tickets for a gig I plan my ass off to pull off. Even if the odds are 95% in my favor, you want to bet 6 months of work and a few grand that I don't hit that 5%? Id rather pay the top tiermthan have a chance I'll take a massive bite like that.
JK
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by junglesmacks » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:32 pm

Hey.. uhhh.. Sue? I've got a secret to tell you. Shhhh..


Come here.


No.. closer.


Little closer.







Are you listening?
































Those that plan... burn. I will see you in the dust.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Ugly Dougly » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 pm

I would prefer a big roulette wheel.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:38 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:I would prefer a big roulette wheel.

Image
Yeah, you say that now, but as someone who's spun that wheel, I just going to say you have no idea what you're asking for.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Ranger Ryan » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:07 pm

Hi all. I have to voice my opinion here-- in the hopes that someone in the Org will hear it. I realize we are being told that a decision had been made and there is nothing that we can do about it-- but I would like to think that "citizens" of BRC have a voice, and hopefully a voice that is respected and valued by the powers that be. So here his mine:

A lottery for tickets is a terrible idea. It punishes people who plan. It punishes the core that has made BRC what it is. I think it will tear apart the ability for groups to come together to plan and build theme camps and art. If there is more demand for tickets than tickets available-- then people who have their act together and get their tickets early should be the ones who are rewarded. They KNOW they want to be in BRC. They KNOW that self-reliance means that you have to get your ticket early. I don't know why the Org is making a huge mess out of this just to accommodate people who later in the year decide they want to go. You snooze, you loose. Early bird gets the worm. Get your tickets early.

The technology exists out there to handle the spike in demand when tickets first go on sale- and I would suggest that BM gets their act together and partner with companies that have experience in that type of thing. I also think that getting rid of the different pricing tiers will help alleviate the strain. Just set the price for a ticket and sell them until they run out.

This is sounding more and more like a Netflix blunder!

In short: partner with an experienced ticketing company, set one ticket price, and sell them until they sell out.

Ranger Ryan

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:18 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:this thing has grown faster than a crowd in Ogawa plaza!!!
last year my sig line DID say "Those who plan... burn. See you in the dust!"
Now... I want you to walk up to a dollar slot machine and tell me how you plan on that thing hitting? Serious - tell me how you can base reality on a gaming bet? You have enough money lying loose to drop $5000-$20000+ on a camp this year and not know you're gonna get to go?
I've always said this is the Org's private party and they can decide who they want to be there or not... but to require you to gamble to show up, um... the old way I KNEW I had a ticket, even if I had to pay 3rd tier to get it... this way, you're asking me to put my camp's hard-earned bucks on the line on a gamble? Or to dig into my pocket to cover what they paid because they lost the gamble to get a ticket?
This is becoming ridiculous in a fashion I never thought of before. I get to gamble that all my crew gets tix because we spent the camp dues on infra, then I get to spend my money out of my pocket to cover 4 members who got screwed on the lotto... or even worse, I get to cover all the crews money because I don't get one... and we don't put up our camp this year...
Sorry... I want to gamble I walk into a casino, not buy tickets for a gig I plan my ass off to pull off. Even if the odds are 95% in my favor, you want to bet 6 months of work and a few grand that I don't hit that 5%? Id rather pay the top tiermthan have a chance I'll take a massive bite like that.
Welcome to Nevada!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Post by bradtem » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:21 pm

I will presume that BMOrg did some modeling of what would happen if they did the traditional sales model again (tiers, or even just a single price until they are gone.)

I presume that this model showed the risk of very rapid sell-out and some ticket hoarding, along with speculator purchase. While a lottery may not solve those problems and may even make them worse, it is one of a spectrum of possible solutions if they believed the old approach would no longer work.
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