Increased number of tickets available this year???

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Spanky D
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Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Spanky D » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:21 pm

Has anyone heard or know anything about the rumor of the 50k ticket limit set by the BLM in 2011 being increased to 70k in 2012?
I've heard this from multiple sources but have yet to read anything official.
Thanks for your input. We'll see you'all soon. Much love, Spanky & Jewalia. Camp Tow Jams.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Eric » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:24 pm

There is absolutely no official data on the population limit this year (the permit still hasn't been signed). Anything you are currently hearing is speculation and rumor, please treat it as such.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Rice » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:47 pm

Spanky D wrote:Has anyone heard or know anything about the rumor of the 50k ticket limit set by the BLM in 2011 being increased to 70k in 2012?
I've heard this from multiple sources but have yet to read anything official.
Thanks for your input. We'll see you'all soon. Much love, Spanky & Jewalia. Camp Tow Jams.


Historically the population increase was over a multiple year period, not one (based on previous multi-year lease details)

As Eric says, the lease has not been signed yet, so we do not have any real (ie accurate) details. To say anything else would be guessing or just making up stuff.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:13 pm

What Eric said. And no information on either the total number of tickets or the number of tickets in each tier for 2012 has yet been made available.

Most likely, the 70K number you're hearing is somebody passing along information without reading carefully. According to a couple reports, the BMOrg goal was to try and get to a 70K population cap by 2016 (not 2012). Population growth for the event has always been a gradual, evolutionary process that's based on performance at the previous year's event as well as what the infrastructure can support. My guess is that being able to accommodate 70K people would require widening the roads in some spots, as well as a number of additional infrastructure improvements made over the course of time.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby sandgoddess » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:30 pm

trilobyte wrote: And no information on either the total number of tickets or the number of tickets in each tier for 2012 has yet been made available.
Most likely, the 70K number you're hearing is somebody passing along information without reading carefully. According to a couple reports, the BMOrg goal was to try and get to a 70K population cap by 2016 (not 2012). Population growth for the event has always been a gradual, evolutionary process that's based on performance at the previous year's event as well as what the infrastructure can support. My guess is that being able to accommodate 70K people would require widening the roads in some spots, as well as a number of additional infrastructure improvements made over the course of time.


Oh Dear Heaven's...Do people really want BM to get bigger? Or just people who haven't been there yet? :? If it gets any bigger Borg needs to require, and make people prove, they stayed to help clean up for a week the previous year, before they can even purchase tickets.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:57 pm

sandgoddess wrote:Oh Dear Heaven's...Do people really want BM to get bigger? Or just people who haven't been there yet? :? If it gets any bigger Borg needs to require, and make people prove, they stayed to help clean up for a week the previous year, before they can even purchase tickets.

There's no way for the llc to do that, and even trying would be so oppressive that I'm about ready to run back to my history of the Russian Revolution at the mere thought.


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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Foxfur » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:17 pm

If it goes beyond 60,000 the org will build a food court. And mandate spouse swapping.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Eric » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:27 pm

sandgoddess wrote:If it gets any bigger Borg needs to require, and make people prove, they stayed to help clean up for a week the previous year, before they can even purchase tickets.


Can we see your proof of same?

More endless speculation & ways to only let people who've been continue to go; which would cut out some amazing new energy that keeps the event from turning into a bunch of cranky old piss-pants shouting "get off my lawn" to anyone without a resume. Talk about Elitist.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:51 pm

Eric wrote:
sandgoddess wrote:If it gets any bigger Borg needs to require, and make people prove, they stayed to help clean up for a week the previous year, before they can even purchase tickets.


Can we see your proof of same?

More endless speculation & ways to only let people who've been continue to go; which would cut out some amazing new energy that keeps the event from turning into a bunch of cranky old piss-pants shouting "get off my lawn" to anyone without a resume. Talk about Elitist.

so totally with ya Eric..........it's the new folks, that make it exciting, and add the zest........lovin on all the veteran burners, but, we gotta keep new folks in the mix. IMHO.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby lemur » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:13 pm

my burning man resume is better than your burning man resume!!!


i for one welcome our new 'only for true burners' burning man..


if you arent in the social register, you dont get to go.



burning man filled with all the workers and volunteers but nobody to attend any of the theme camps and nobody to work for.. sounds awesome to me.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby trilobyte » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:32 am

If the event is able to grow in a responsible manner, I'm all for it. It's a positive transformative experience for a large percentage of the people who participate, I think the world would be better off if more people got to experience something like that. I'm also curious to see the evolution of the experiment that is BRC.

As for cleanup requirements, things would be absolutely fine if people could manage to pick up after themselves during the period of time that they're out there. You know… leave no trace. The trend over the last several years has been that the city as a whole has been getting better, and I'm hopeful that 2012 will continue and be the greenest one yet. Additional post-even volunteers would be great, but should hardly be a requirement.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:29 am

Eric wrote:There is absolutely no official data on the population limit this year (the permit still hasn't been signed). Anything you are currently hearing is speculation and rumor, please treat it as such.

Yup, don't count on the numbers changing until the permit has been finalized.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:22 pm

The following is not speculation, but could clearly be out of date:

"Black Rock City LLC is proposing a permit for 2012-16 that would allow 50,000 people the first year and increase that number by 6 percent until reaching 70,000 when the permit terminates, said Bureau of Land Management spokeswoman Lisa Ross."
(http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-07-31/b ... aigslist/2)

Note, that article was written before BM 2011. Also, there is surely an error, since you would need 6 percent increases for five years to hit 70K, not 50K in 2012 and then four 6 percent increases.

So I would suggest that the BLM is examining a land use permit proposal that lists 53K for 2012. Whether that ends up being the final number is anyone's guess.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:23 pm

Is the desert getting bigger?

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Eric » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:33 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Is the desert getting bigger?


From a strictly geological viewpoint, yes; the whole Basin & Range area is pulling apart, which would mean the deserts are getting bigger.

Pedantic enough?
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Rice » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:36 pm

Eric wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Is the desert getting bigger?


From a strictly geological viewpoint, yes; the whole Basin & Range area is pulling apart, which would mean the deserts are getting bigger.

Pedantic enough?


Very good!! Made me laugh and I have a new word in my vocabulary ;)
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Sola Gangsta » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:52 pm

They could easily expand the event toward the north-east, but that's not the main problem. The problem is that the roads leading to the event aren't getting any wider which drastically limits how many people can get in over a reasonable amount of time. In 2011's burn, I had a 5.5 hour wait to get in and just over 8 hours to get out. It's like trying to thread all the camels hair through an eye of a needle. To widen the roads for nearly 80 miles of pavement is no small expenditure. I also saw tons of crap dumped on the sides of the road leaving the event and stranded RV'ers both coming and going. These are all considerations that the BLM and state officials have to deal with.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:17 pm

Eric wrote:From a strictly geological viewpoint, yes; the whole Basin & Range area is pulling apart, which would mean the deserts are getting bigger.


Burning Man 12,237 is going to be CRAAAZY!

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby JennyH » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:18 pm

Some of the rumors about an increase in the number of tickets could have started from a story on the local Reno TV news. A few days ago, a story aired that said that BMORG had requested an increase from BLM. I don't know if the got their info from BLM or BMORG or if it is true, but it made the news. Anyone watching would assume that the org is trying to get permission to sell more tickets.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:25 pm

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Rice » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:33 pm

JennyH wrote:Some of the rumors about an increase in the number of tickets could have started from a story on the local Reno TV news. A few days ago, a story aired that said that BMORG had requested an increase from BLM. I don't know if the got their info from BLM or BMORG or if it is true, but it made the news. Anyone watching would assume that the org is trying to get permission to sell more tickets.


The BLM lease is not signed yet. From what I can tell, no exact details have been released. In the past, the lease had been for a 5 year period. Within that time period there was some accommodation for population growth. The 2011 burn was on a temporary 1 year lease and did not allow for any population increases (therefore the ticket sell-out). We wait to see what is eventually signed.

What I am saying is: nothing official has been released. Rumours are just guesses.

Everything I am saying is either based on historic (published) records or my assumptions based on past history. Maybe my assumptions are wrong.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 pm

Well, as I listed above, there was a quote from someone at the BLM in a new report in July.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Canoe » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:20 pm

Foxfur wrote:If it goes beyond 60,000 the org will build a food court. And mandate spouse swapping.

Surely not at the food court!

And, naw.
Couldn't work.
Too many people to organize quickly.
They'd have to do something like have a lottery.
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:22 pm

MV Key Party
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Canoe » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:41 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:MV Key Party

Exodus = one month?
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:47 am

Eric wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Is the desert getting bigger?


From a strictly geological viewpoint, yes; the whole Basin & Range area is pulling apart, which would mean the deserts are getting bigger.

Pedantic enough?


Just fine, thank you! ;)

Of course, my true drift was that yesteryear's ticket cap was based on the bearing capacity of the desert in question. I doubt that's going to change anytime soon. :)

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby portaplaya » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:11 pm

I believe the idea behind raising the pop cap each year is because we don't know the bearing capacity of the desert yet. (Or more accurately, the volunteer cleaning crew we are able to muster.)

Slowly raising the limit supposedly allows us to gently reach whatever that limit is, rather than crashing through that wall at 70,000 miles (people?) per hour.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Isotopia » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:30 pm

The 'bearing capacity' you speak of has NOTHING at all to do with the limited numbers set forth in the BLM permit.

Bearing capacity is a geophysical term and related to a the ability of the ground to support a specific amount of weight. Bearing capacity is a moot point when you consider that there are multiple points on the Lahontan lake bed where the sediment depth is in excess of 7000 meters.

If you meant 'carrying capacity' that too is a moot point. Carrying capacity is a bio/ecological term that that defines the ability of ecological zone to sustain a certain number of members of a given species - if memory serves me.

In either case it isn't part of the calculus in issuing the permit.

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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby Canoe » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:47 pm

Hijack!
Isotopia wrote:...
Bearing capacity is a geophysical term and related to a the ability of the ground to support a specific amount of weight. Bearing capacity is a moot point when you consider that there are multiple points on the Lahontan lake bed where the sediment depth is in excess of 7000 meters...

I assume sediment depth would present as a self-strengthening self-stabilizing load?
Any chance the BRC load can present as multiple point loads that may fracture the packed surface, leading to a surface shuffling indent displacement?
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Re: Increased number of tickets available this year???

Postby lemur » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:40 am

awesome.

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