Additional Information

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trilobyte
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Additional Information

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:02 am

I've got some additional information to pass on.

BMOrg wrote:We ARE listening carefully to every proposed solution now or in the future. We discussed a lot of considered approaches to this, and will have full details soon. A lot of its validity depends on how it attends to the needs of a collaborative community.

Other regionals use lotteries & some other events. All will be revealed when it's ready. This is a bit of riding out for the day, while we compile an FAQ based on these concerns & those of the Regionals.

This is a problem of supply and demand more than it is just deterring scalpers -- that's not the whole point. One must reason from the basic premise that any Burning Man not available to everyone is inherently unfair, and solving fairness is impossible in a limited space.


I've relayed the concerns and questions raised on ePlaya, and will be doing whatever I can to help expedite getting the FAQ and additional details put together. Deep breaths, have patience, and please keep it civil.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:15 am

Hear my prayer, O LORD, listen to my cry for help; be not deaf to my weeping. Psalm 39:12
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Re: Additional Information

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:16 am

Thank you for all of the above, Tril. Stellar work as always. I have faith.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby CapSmashy » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:20 am

Comparing the amount of work that goes into the art built and the scale of the theme camps built for the big burn vs a 3 or 4 day regional is very short sighted on the part of BMORG.
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Re: Additional Information

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:21 am

You're very welcome, now quit leaving the o off my name. ;)

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Re: Additional Information

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:22 am

trilobyte wrote:You're very welcome, now quit leaving the o off my name. ;)



I'm fond of single syllable shortenings..
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:23 am

junglesmacks wrote:
trilobyte wrote:You're very welcome, now quit leaving the o off my name. ;)



I'm fond of single syllable shortenings..



ok gulls.
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Re: Additional Information

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:24 am

CapSmashy wrote:Comparing the amount of work that goes into the art built and the scale of the theme camps built for the big burn vs a 3 or 4 day regional is very short sighted on the part of BMORG.


At this point I think the BORG could offer gentle ball cuppings and foot rubs and you/people would still find a way to talk smack. It's best to sit down, relax and wait for more details. Feel free to help yourself to more kool-aid in the meantime.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:26 am

CapSmashy wrote:Comparing the amount of work that goes into the art built and the scale of the theme camps built for the big burn vs a 3 or 4 day regional is very short sighted on the part of BMORG.


I pasted the line "Other regionals use lotteries & some other events." exactly as it had been sent to me, but I read it as "Other regionals use lotteries & [so do] some other events." It is my understanding that those involved with the decision making are looking further and wider than just the regional events.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby AntiM » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:43 am

junglesmacks wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:Comparing the amount of work that goes into the art built and the scale of the theme camps built for the big burn vs a 3 or 4 day regional is very short sighted on the part of BMORG.


At this point I think the BORG could offer gentle ball cuppings and foot rubs and you/people would still find a way to talk smack. It's best to sit down, relax and wait for more details. Feel free to help yourself to more kool-aid in the meantime.



Yeah, I don't have balls to be gently cupped.

Paging Fishy ......
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Re: Additional Information

Postby oneeyeddick » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:48 am

Even with the moderator's request to keep it civil and the added sticky, this thread turned into a dick joke before 10 posts..I love you guys!
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:56 am

Dick jokes are civil as far as I'm concerned, it's the personal attacks I'd like to keep in check.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:00 am

trilobyte.. thats like those old fossils, right?
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Re: Additional Information

Postby LucyHosking » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:06 am

BMOrg wrote:... One must reason from the basic premise that any Burning Man not available to everyone is inherently unfair, and solving fairness is impossible in a limited space.


Lacking a more direct channel to the BMOrg, and with hope that our dear moderator might pass this on to them, here is an open letter that describes the feelings of the artists and all who support them that I have talked to over the course of the weekend:

Dear BMOrg:

Please do not get so lost in an inward, philosophical quest for "fairness" that you make it equally unfair to everyone.

We remind you that your lifeblood is every single artist that has dedicated their energy, their resources, and above all their love to the event. The proposed ticket policy gives no hint of respect for this community. You have hurt us by putting our participation in jeopardy, and so you have damaged the fundamental trust that we must have in you.

We have been loyal to you for years. We have delivered wonders to you out of love and respect.

How will you show your loyalty to us? How will you show your love and respect?

What can you tell the artist community now that will reassure them that their creations and the crews necessary to deliver them will be permitted into the event in 2012 and beyond?
Lucyfer

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:08 am

Lucy...

It'll be ok. I give you my word. You can have my shoes if it isn't.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:10 am

trilobyte wrote:I've got some additional information to pass on.

BMOrg wrote:One must reason from the basic premise that any Burning Man not available to everyone is inherently unfair, and solving fairness is impossible in a limited space.


I've relayed the concerns and questions raised on ePlaya, and will be doing whatever I can to help expedite getting the FAQ and additional details put together. Deep breaths, have patience, and please keep it civil.


Yes. And you know that I hate to agree with the llc, that I tend to suspect they are a bunch of clowns. (Sorry, Eric.) But what I see happening in this subforum, over and over is "I'm so special that the system should make sure I go." Well, this is what happens in a place where everyone's special...
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Re: Additional Information

Postby bigdane » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:12 am

trilobyte wrote:I've got some additional information to pass on.

BMOrg wrote:We ARE listening carefully to every proposed solution now or in the future. We discussed a lot of considered approaches to this, and will have full details soon. A lot of its validity depends on how it attends to the needs of a collaborative community.

Other regionals use lotteries & some other events. All will be revealed when it's ready. This is a bit of riding out for the day, while we compile an FAQ based on these concerns & those of the Regionals.

This is a problem of supply and demand more than it is just deterring scalpers -- that's not the whole point. One must reason from the basic premise that any Burning Man not available to everyone is inherently unfair, and solving fairness is impossible in a limited space.


I've relayed the concerns and questions raised on ePlaya, and will be doing whatever I can to help expedite getting the FAQ and additional details put together. Deep breaths, have patience, and please keep it civil.


thanks trilo, I wonder how many seconds till your post is dissected, scrutinized and misinterpreted by the poor me contingency? That was civil, right?
don't play with matches unless you intend to burn

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:14 am

theCryptofishist wrote:But what I see happening in this subforum, over and over is "I'm so special that the system should make sure I go."


That's what I was trying to put my finger on... thank you for putting words to it. This weird "Veteran Burners First" theme...and other's like it... this weird "Do whatever you want, just make sure I'm assured I get mine!" theme.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:37 am

AntiM wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:Comparing the amount of work that goes into the art built and the scale of the theme camps built for the big burn vs a 3 or 4 day regional is very short sighted on the part of BMORG.


At this point I think the BORG could offer gentle ball cuppings and foot rubs and you/people would still find a way to talk smack. It's best to sit down, relax and wait for more details. Feel free to help yourself to more kool-aid in the meantime.



Yeah, I don't have balls to be gently cupped.

Paging Fishy ......



But everyone has feet to be rubbed, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhooohhhhwhoops.
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Re: Additional Information

Postby Savannah » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:49 am

*rubs junglesmacks' conscience*

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Re: Additional Information

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:03 pm

Savannah wrote:*rubs junglesmacks' conscience*



We know what happened last time you did that..
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:08 pm

im still washing out the crunchie bits from the rug
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Re: Additional Information

Postby oneeyeddick » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:10 pm

At this point I find it much easier to smack him up beside the head with a dick joke.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:14 pm

They could have several burns a year. That would spread things out a bit.
Also a burn in southern California would also allow overall attendance to be high, yet keep the individual burns fairly small. That's what the CA Ren Faire did.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:28 pm

LucyHosking wrote:
BMOrg wrote:
Dear BMOrg:

Please do not get so lost in an inward, philosophical quest for "fairness" that you make it equally unfair to everyone.


Yes, this was recognized by them in that note when they said "solving fairness is impossible in a limited space." There is no such thing as fair for some while not fair to others in the same situation.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Elorrum » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:36 pm

Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo. - T.S. Elliot

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Elderberry » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:53 pm

portaplaya wrote:
LucyHosking wrote:
BMOrg wrote:
Dear BMOrg:

Please do not get so lost in an inward, philosophical quest for "fairness" that you make it equally unfair to everyone.


Yes, this was recognized by them in that note when they said "solving fairness is impossible in a limited space." There is no such thing as fair for some while not fair to others in the same situation.

I don't know...fair is first come, first served if you ask me.
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Re: Additional Information

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:10 pm

Even when you're talking about the weather, "fair" doesn't mean a thing.

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Re: Additional Information

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:37 pm

portaplaya wrote:
LucyHosking wrote:
BMOrg wrote:
Dear BMOrg:

Please do not get so lost in an inward, philosophical quest for "fairness" that you make it equally unfair to everyone.


Yes, this was recognized by them in that note when they said "solving fairness is impossible in a limited space." There is no such thing as fair for some while not fair to others in the same situation.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Additional Information

Postby Timezone LaFontaine » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:04 pm

portaplaya wrote:
LucyHosking wrote:
BMOrg wrote:
Dear BMOrg:

Please do not get so lost in an inward, philosophical quest for "fairness" that you make it equally unfair to everyone.


Yes, this was recognized by them in that note when they said "solving fairness is impossible in a limited space." There is no such thing as fair for some while not fair to others in the same situation.



Aw hell naw!!! Fair is fair!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClVGVsXyY-c


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