Dear BM LLC

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pinemom
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Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:13 am

Just a quick note to let you know that this new lottery is really going to effect the actual amount of regular attendee's coming home.
This has given alot of people to excuse to not go based on fear of not getting one.(BECAUSE 75% of us cant afford to bid on a ticket till we actually get our income tax back)!!(still 15-60 days away from TODAY!)

This has also hampered the building of new theme camps!
Why would anyone wanna throw down 4-6K on a theme camp not knowing if 15 of the 30 of your new members cant get a ticket.

You really should put a registration number on that postcard you send each of us every yr, and ask us if were going? We check the box and send it back.Then you would have full on numbers in advance.
Then everyone that has always gone, and will go every yr, would know their registration number was filed.

I dont know how to solve your tickets issues really, just trying to figure out a better way for the artists that pour their pocket book into a camp, know for sure that what they spent would be enjoyed by the playa people. And news flash, the spending on a theme camp is 365, not just in May when you think your going to go....

Im glad that we closed shop on the Booby bar. I would be scared as F**** to spend a red dime on it, with these odd's of not KNOWING if you can even afford the tier your going to be thrown into! Or of course having to wait till end of March to see if your taxes are back in enough time to grab the open ticket sales day against the spam bots buying them up faster the human fingers can hit the BUY button.

Perhaps you should have had the theme camp/village people put in their questionnaires first, so at least the members and financial backers of said camps could throw their wads in and know for sure it wasnt throwing cash into the wind.

Im just worried that with the insure status of tickets, is going to effect alot of art out there this yr.! what a drag. stupid spam bots screwing up even a damn art festival.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:18 am

Scarcity's a bitch. You'd have been 10 times more screwed if it was just done as a first come, first serve open sale like last year.

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:23 am

Yes and no.

In the 6 yrs Ive been in a theme camp, I had never been scared till this yr to spend money on the idea of going to Burningman like I always do.

Thats all.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:25 am

And really until last yrs spam buyout, we never worried.
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Dear pinemom

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:35 am

Just a quick note to let you know that this new post is really going to probably be ignored by the regular attendee's coming to eplaya.
This subject has given a lot of people an excuse to vent and fear. (But 75% of us got tired of it after everything had been said by mid november of 2011)!!(just over 60 days ago, from TODAY!)

These kind of threads also hampered discussion of new art and theme camps!
Why would anyone talk about art and theme camps when they might not get a chance to register their disgust at the ticket lottery before 30 other members say the same thing?

I don't know how to keep you from wanting to post this thread, really, just trying to figure out a better way to tell you that this discussion is kind of over in our community and that those who would enjoy alread have.
And news flash! theres about a dozen older threads you could have registered your distaste on!

Im glad that we are mostly done with these kind of threads. We would be screwed if we hadnt have moved on as a community, with the odds of not moving on and talking about art and theme camps many people might not be able to afford the time to help new people, or discuss art! Or of course having to wait until the end of March when everyone freaks out and realizes burning man is only a few months away and trying to post threads looking for help while all the humans are posting ticket threads faster than the human brain can READ them.

Perhaps you should have had a casual inspection of the 2012 Event Tickets forum first, so at least the members of eplaya could have avoided reading the same thing they read in November... rehashing memories that were gone with the wind.

Im just worried that with the status of the other ticket threads that this ticket thread is going to effect a lot of people out there. What a drag!! Stupid humans will take any chance they can get to rehash an old argument.. screwing up a damn online forum...




(this was made in jest and i do not really care about you posting this, and may even agree with some stuff...i was just interested to see how delayed it was, carry on!)
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:40 am

And it's certainly an understandable fear. But the culprit is not the drawing, it's the fact that the event sold out last year. Suddenly everyone who either got burned, had a close call, or knew someone who got burned or had a close call was thinking "holy crap, I need to get my tickets early next year!" And then there are the people who are thinking about getting extra tickets for campmates, or for their art project, and of course the profiteers and ticket fundraiser crowd. It also opened the doors up to the possibility of professional scalpers, who have automated ticket buying software that could not be stopped in a first-come, first-served open sale.

Last year didn't sell out until July, but half the tickets sold in 48 hours. Under the old system, the event would have been sold out long before you got your tax return back. Under this new thing, scalper-bots are held at bay and if there's a mad rush the January sales are capped at 40K, and the drawing gives everyone a shot (not just those who could take the day off or who have the best internet connections). 10K tickets are held until late March, which gives those waiting on tax refunds a fighting chance to get tickets. The only 'ideal situation' (in my book) is if there were enough tickets for the people who wanted to and were able to go, but unfortunately demand has outstripped supply.

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby Elderberry » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:43 am

I posted this in another thread, but I'm going to repost it here too:

You know--if you actually just realize that you have no control over whether you get a ticket or not, why not just let go of it. It's not worth the stress. I have moved into that area of -- well, it I get a ticket I'll go, if not, I won't. No biggy either way. It sure has removed all the stress for me. (along with a a big bit of the attachment I had with BM as well, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing either.)
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:46 am

Wow, Lemur...
I didnt know you cared?

What my attempt was is to possibly help give some ideas for next yrs ticket sales.....
And maybe its part of my fear, for family I know attempting to build a new theme camp, where ours once stood.
The fear of not having your name in that lottery, due to your ticket monies, are still in UNCLE SAMS pockets.(HELLO, ME!)

And what the hell, everyone was allowed to beat the dead horse for months before it happened and I start a thread because 99% of the posters in the lottery discussion are first time eplaya visitors and I dont see where to post that an actual constructive idea thread, if GOBS forbid it really does get all screwy?...Oh come on.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:51 am

Ya, I know dead horse. But, just saying we do have some alternatelive ways to ensure people who are trying to spend gobs of monies to gift the playa with, need some kind of insurance that everything they built, spent $ on, isnt just going to go into storage on August 17th. to wait yet another yr. to bring it all out.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:53 am

the fear is very real yep, lots of us care a lot about this thing in the desert.. and some of us may only get to see our friends once a year! at this thing in the desert..

all fear and worry and beating of the dead horse is surely acceptable, considering the amount of attachment and the amount of importance this has for many of us..

it isnt just a festival or a camping trip to many people..


its a big change for people used to quite a bit of consistency,.. ..people expect lotsa stuff occuring about this event in the ways they are used to..

this change wont make that any easier this year, or next year.. until people become used to it, and the demands it puts on people and camps.. and art..


change sucks.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby tamarakay » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:13 am

I'm not sure if the community moved on or the community just got tired of being ridiculed for expressing their distaste of, and fears about the new system.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:31 am

i think ridicule may not have only been for the persons fear (while that SURELY happened, 100% indeed!!) at some point ... the "ME TOO!" SURELY began to wear on some people..

while everyone voicing their personal objections or approval is awesome and the hallmark of a great community it kind of loses its charm when the same thing gets said the same way dozens upon dozens of times with slightly different wording but still containing all of the same feeling of fear and hurt of the others

we all know for many people it sucked to get that news and it sucks to have to live with the changes..

at some point, as many saw in 2011 after tickets were selling out, the message has been received and even the most heartfelt expression of ones beliefs and feelings may not only fall on deaf ears.. but ears who had developed tinnitus from the loud noise...
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:35 am

Ya I know deaf ears with tinnitus, EVEN , T'kay. But I think what my point was missed, just throwing some idea's for 2013 out there...as well as telling it like it is for what we are all going through trying this system out this yr.

Idea's, are what this festival even started out on, why would new idea's (some we try, some we dont) be a bad thing? Just think'n out loud, seems we could all give idea for a better more uncomplicated system for the wonderful people that handle the ticket sales to look over, do a experiment within the office, and maybe try if it seems do-able.

How 'bout just let people vent a bit too, seems eplaya is the best place I know for it! Geeze people can come in and put all kinds of Political crap on the board that I "Used" to run too, to get away from it all. Not the case anymore. Guess maybe I should just stay away from Eplaya all together. If my $0.02 is totally off base of attempting to just put out some more idea's if this yrs idea doesnt work out to good?
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby unjonharley » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:37 am

This thread has brought up a question..

Just how much will the survey have to do with the on going scrubbing?

I do not theme camp, no big art, small Mv art, single camper and other low output.

I am unable to commit to a timed volunteer.. There was not a space for what little I do..
Last edited by unjonharley on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:39 am

we have had tons of people suggest new ideas (some of which i think were actually adopted)

the ideas may not fall on deaf ears! but.. the distaste for the lottery may have reached its saturation point

(we can only give so much sympathy!)


trilobyte wrote:Scarcity's a bitch.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:56 am

Yup, and the fact that the whole of BM community FREAKED out over said lottery and when they posted the link to come back here to EPLAYA to discuss it, which for most just came in One post posters, and bitched about it, truly muddied the waters of reason. All I was trying to do was start a convo about if this doesnt work out, how can we attendee's help our wonderful ticket planners?

and p.s. any thread a person doesnt like, a person is not forced to read, consume or put weight in.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:01 pm

@pinemom - you did get to vent. And people got to respond. I still maintain that the drawing isn't the problem, the lack of tickets (scarcity) is. But make no mistake, the box office staff and powers that be within the BMOrg continue to look at options and possibilities for 2013 and beyond. They'll also have the opportunity to see how this new system plays out - some parts will work better than others, and I'm sure lessons will be learned. The 'one post wonders' aren't bad people so much, it's just a knee-jerk reaction to the general fear of change (just like people starting threads to suggest fixes for a system that hasn't even been used yet). It's a lot like the freakout people had when tickets sold out, but the good news is that a number of those people will come back and participate in a more meaningful way at some point down the road.

@unjonharley - the survey has zero to do with scrubbing the list for scammers/scalpers. Nothing you could choose on that survey would affect your chances one way or the other.

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pinemom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Trilo, ya I think most of my stuff was that there is so much stuff down below, that I couldnt try and read between the lines to see if idea's had been put forth, or even the NOW as of this date FEARS that are coming forth.

I just see that in talking with people who wanted to do a theme camp this yr, have pulled very far away from the idea based on this new system. Thats all. and Yes, my thread was very redundant.apologies to "those who must be kept"
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby knowmad » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 pm

tamarakay wrote:I'm not sure if the community moved on or the community just got tired of being ridiculed for expressing their distaste of, and fears about the new system.

DinngdigggiDidngisifnfsidnisdnisnnndidndddiiiinnnngggg!
Winner.

Every thread that critics the ticket process has the same folks hammerying away at you for sugesting that this years ticket sales are in shambles.

Some people have been saying since over a year ago that:
Inticketing is an inside scam job.
There are ways to make it fair.
They believe that the event and the comunity is suffering because the elatisim inside the LLC. A select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry more weight.


Thank you for Writing this open Letter to The LLC Piny.
Perhaps we all Should.
I don't care if the mods and the lakys are tired of seing threads like this.
I'm sory That Goups Like The Swish Embasy are having a hard time building somthing to replace The Boobie Bar because of the Way a few people chose to handle how a bunch of people Burn.
And Yes. Taxes is where I fund My Tickets too. Still planing to burn. but plan on hearing alot of crap about how this will all work out.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby moonrise » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:12 pm

IMHO, piney is just voicing concerns many are reluctant to voice. She's a "dyed in the wool" burner, and she knows what she hears, sees and feels holds a lot of truth.

Sorry to re-hash more ticket lottery BS, but in her defense this burner sure seems confident things could've been done better.
viewtopic.php?f=290&t=53444&p=784147#p784147

Thanks for The Booby Bar :) and we all hope the new theme camp (THE SWISH EMBASSAY) comes together and everyone gets tickets in time.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:34 pm

knowmad wrote:Every thread that critiques the ticket process has the same folks hammering away at you for suggesting that this years ticket sales are in shambles.

I don't care if the mods and the lackeys are tired of seeing threads like this.


perhaps we shouldn't allow people to disagree more than 1 time per subject on this forum to avoid the same folks voicing their opinion multiple times.

perhaps no one wants you to care about seeing threads like this or not, they just want to voice their opinion.. just as the ones who chose to start the threads did..

an online forum such as eplaya is a two way medium of communication ..only the moderation team can realistically put limits on the communication.



there exists places that are a one way form of communication..

Blogger.com, wordpress.com, typepad.com, just to name a few.. all allow one to post things they feel strongly about without having to deal with unwanted disagreement.. one could disable comments completely.

these services also allow the moderation of comments, so if one pleases, they could weed out any comment they feel is in disagreement or disagreeable with them.. and show only comments that show support or that pleases them..


While we do get lots of new people arriving in the community through a year, it shouldnt be any surprise for those who are active in this community, or any online community.. or any active community outside of the internet for that matter.. that a smaller subset of that community is likely to do the lions share of interaction....
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby unjonharley » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:55 pm

lemur wrote:

perhaps we shouldn't allow people to disagree more than 1 time per subject on this forum to avoid the same folks voicing their opinion multiple times.



Well, It would cut down on your posting

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby knowmad » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:58 pm

lemur wrote:
knowmad wrote:Every thread that critiques the ticket process has the same folks hammering away at you for suggesting that this years ticket sales are in shambles.

I don't care if the mods and the lackeys are tired of seeing threads like this.


perhaps we shouldn't allow people to disagree more than 1 time per subject on this forum to avoid the same folks voicing their opinion multiple times....


Do you think you could explain that sentence better? Because it is like a gramtical and silogistical trainwreck.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:17 pm

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby Elliot » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:38 pm

Question about scalpers:
Maybe it has been covered and I missed it, but I wonder if any significant number of tickets went un-used last year. That is, if scalpers got stuck with them?
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby knowmad » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Good Question Elliot.
I know there was a bunch of folks getting sold counterfits, pretty shure that is also a major reason to not ship tickets out till closer to the event.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby pink » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:53 pm

pinemom wrote:Wow, Lemur...
I didnt know you cared?

What my attempt was is to possibly help give some ideas for next yrs ticket sales.....
And maybe its part of my fear, for family I know attempting to build a new theme camp, where ours once stood.
The fear of not having your name in that lottery, due to your ticket monies, are still in UNCLE SAMS pockets.(HELLO, ME!)

And what the hell, everyone was allowed to beat the dead horse for months before it happened and I start a thread because 99% of the posters in the lottery discussion are first time eplaya visitors and I dont see where to post that an actual constructive idea thread, if GOBS forbid it really does get all screwy?...Oh come on.


Um, if you are dependent on getting a tax refund to buy your ticket (which means since the tix always went onsale in January, you wouldn't have your money for the cheap tix in time anyways), you still have the March open sale. And if you get big refunds, why not adjust your withholding and stop giving Uncle Sam an interest-free loan and just save the money over the year so you'll have the cash at ticket sale time? Oh and BTW, e-file is now open, has been open for a week now, and refunds are supposed to be coming in within 5 days with direct deposit.

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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:02 pm

Piney
I wish you'd taken this to the back room months ago. I signed up for one ticket, and I can pay for any level. I had considered, and I think even mentioned, getting an extra ticket for whomever, but with no specific whomever I just went for one. I'm sure that tc could have figured out a way to loan or otherwise cover people who wouldn't have the money in January.
It has been very hard for me to look at eplaya's board full of burners, whom I consider to be a tough and resourceful bunch, and see so many just sit in the middle of the road and start crying. The number who just declared this a failure, without even seeing how it played out over the next six months. Or eight months. I know that the proper response is compassion. Seeing someone cheat themselves out of what they want from fear or anger is sad. I don't have it in me right now. Just a frustration that a friend might not make it to the playa.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby tamarakay » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:21 pm

Am I the only person that works for a company that waits until the last possible day before giving you your tax statements? Oh sure, my accountant could probably fill the durn thing out himself, but still we have to wait for the official, signed copy from my employer. Which I will get January 31, or 30th when 31st falls on a Sunday.

I think the alienation that long time burners are feeling over this ticket fiasco isn't just about the ticket fiasco. Maybe a final straw, or something. I'm obviously not a long time burner, this will only be my second burn, but I was indeed hesitant to invest any money etc into planning my own little, small scale theme camp until I was guaranteed a ticket. I can only imagine those planning bigger investments and requiring bigger fiscal investments having a much more difficult time than I am.

I admire people like Lemur who can just go on faith (or logic, or whatever it is). Our brains are just wired different. It doesn't mean I'm stupid or he's an idiot, just that we are wired different and think and feel differently. Lemur invests ALOT into this community and into the burn and I have much respect for that. Probably some crazy project manager would team us up on things as we could come at problems with completely different perspectives. And we would totally annoy the hell out of each other, but man oh man that would be one well planned and executed project.
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Re: Dear BM LLC

Postby 7chix&me » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:48 pm

Wow! for a dead horse this topic is still getting quite a beating :wink:


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