well it looks like it failed.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by bigdane » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:30 pm

Nipple wrote:
jella wrote:now Nipple.....that's not helping :twisted: hehe
Sorry... how about this instead:
Image
I'm with Nipple...the panic-ees are the same people that have been screaming since the lottery was announced...stay positive...the dissent will be 40K voices quieter after the first!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by AntiM » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:32 pm

40K/1.7

For the math geeks.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by This Woman » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:33 pm

Jella wrote: wow ...lighten up peeps

And now the attempts to silence dissent.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:33 pm

vargaso wrote:BM lottery is turning out to be like the Iraq war. Everyone outside of those making the decisions knew exactly what would happen. Oh well, I'm still hopeful.

Except there seems to be WAY more civilian casualties as a result of the BM lottery than the Iraq War....

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by trilobyte » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:35 pm

We knew that there would be hoarding, that's primarily the result of last year's sellout. Knowing that last year there weren't enough to go around and this year would be at least the same situation (though probably running out MUCH more quickly), MANY burners made plans to buy earlier or register for more than they needed. That would have happened regardless of whether there was a drawing or whether tickets were all done via open sale. The registration/drawing put the brakes on scalperbots, but at the risk that some burners would further try to game the system with duplicate registrations. Personally, I would much rather some panic-stricken couple gets extra tickets that they then pass along to others in the community than some scalper is able to suck a ton of tickets out of the system that then get sold for top dollar. Actually, I'd rather that people had just not done the panic/hoard thing, but what can you do?

I also think that there was an unprecedented surge in demand connected with Teddy Saunders' amazing video. At the time registration closed, it had over 1.1 MILLION views. It would be foolish to say that only veteran burners saw it. The playa may be teeming with fresh faces this year.

The system wasn't designed to stop people from wanting to go to the event. The system was not designed to magically produce enough tickets so that there'd be plenty for all who registered. The system is doing what it was designed to do, which is do the random selection thing among those who registered. Will's post didn't declare anything a failure, it was intended as an update on the drawing, as well as an effort to remind people about the secure ticket exchange, the upcoming secondary sale, and to remind people to avoid the eBays, Craig's Lists, Stubhubs and the like). Deep breaths people, you have plenty of time to panic.

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YOUR COMMUNITY FAILED YOU, NOT THE LLC

Post by lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:38 pm

Image
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Savannah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:40 pm

Mofessor wrote:1. names on tickets wouldn't significantly slow things down
In your opinion. Have you worked in both Gate and the Org? (I honestly don't know; you could have). I know I haven't. But it seems highly likely that they have investigated the option in the time available (slightly less than a year) and found it prohibitive, and have decided to go with their best effort.
2. people forgetting their ID is about as likely as someone forgetting their ticket (maybe less so)
3. not any more of an invasion of privacy than the car search is now
I happen to agree with those, but I respect someone else's desire not to identify themselves just to get in. (To pick up Will Call, tickets, sure.)
4. Burning Man could set up a system to have any tickets sold back through them...
There will be a secure system to have burners Buy and Sell at face value without using eBay, Craigslist, etc.
4a) would this prevent people from gifting tickets to people they don't know? Yep. But it beats having thousands turned away.
Gifting is a guiding principle. So is radical inclusion, but there will not be quite enough tickets no matter what happens because there is a limit on the population set by the Bureau of Land Management, which is not controlled by Burning Man at all.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:40 pm

bigdane wrote:
Nipple wrote:
jella wrote:now Nipple.....that's not helping :twisted: hehe
Sorry... how about this instead:
Image
I'm with Nipple...the panic-ees are the same people that have been screaming since the lottery was announced...stay positive...the dissent will be 40K voices quieter after the first!
I'd even go so far as to argue that the "panic-ees" are hardly panicking. Merely voicing objections to what is perceived as an unfair, unbalanced system. I strongly disagree with the route that the ORG has taken, and will proudly declare so, however, I'd like to remind all the cool-headed non-panic-ees that I am in fact NOT PANICKING, as I feel most others are not panicking as well. Disagreement does NOT equal panic.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by jella » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:41 pm

This Woman wrote:Jella wrote: wow ...lighten up peeps

And now the attempts to silence dissent.
little ole meeee ..pssh
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Nipple » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:42 pm

This Woman wrote:Jella wrote: wow ...lighten up peeps

And now the attempts to silence dissent.
Look at how you attempt to silence her attempt to silence...

Where am I? I blacked out for a moment.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by bigdane » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:43 pm

tru enuf
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by matt_kicks » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:46 pm

The only solution that would be the most effective in weeding out the scalping rats and eliminate dupes would be to have an application process where you actually have to explain why you want to attend this event. Have it be a short, loose format that takes ~30 minutes. Few scalpers are going to take 30 minutes to fill out a form, whereas a ten year veteran could probably write a masters thesis on why he should get a ticket.

Because this year's lotto:

Image

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by This Woman » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:50 pm

Halcyon was waxing rhapsodic about all the new faces because of Saunder's video too. I don't believe that. Wasn't that video uploaded in early January? You can't really think that newly informed virgin masses will be able to secure tickets in time? All but a few would not be able to put aside that kinda money for an event in August right after the holiday season. Their best bet is the March sell, and don't forget all the reading, prepping and purchasing first timers have to do. But hey, I'm disagreeing with llc, so clearly I'm wrong.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by AntiM » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:51 pm

jella wrote:
This Woman wrote:Jella wrote: wow ...lighten up peeps

And now the attempts to silence dissent.
little ole meeee ..pssh
jella, you bad thing!

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Savannah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:52 pm

I think it's Jella's avatar. It makes her an irresistible scapegoat.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by LegendZero » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:54 pm

This is/was/may be my birgin year decided September last year but I know several people trying to go because of that video. That said my buddy and I going only put in for 2 tickets because that was all we needed, now for the first time I am feeling anxious instead of elated about the drawing.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Ruleryak » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:57 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:I'd even go so far as to argue that the "panic-ees" are hardly panicking. Merely voicing objections to what is perceived as an unfair, unbalanced system. I strongly disagree with the route that the ORG has taken, and will proudly declare so, however, I'd like to remind all the cool-headed non-panic-ees that I am in fact NOT PANICKING, as I feel most others are not panicking as well. Disagreement does NOT equal panic.
Christ on a god-damned stick thank you. We are not "panicking" we are not "whiners". We are reasonable people pointing out early on that this idea was poorly constructed. We are suggesting alternatives, explaining as best we can why logically this system is bound to fail.

And I see as a last minute response the org will now attempt to build a system for burners to resell extra tickets... I guess that's the best we can hope for at this point so that should hopefully calm down some of the folks that are actually in a panic. I want my ticket - sure - and I'll do my best to get one if I don't win the lottery, so a means of doing that safely at face value is appreciated. Score one for the powers that be for at least caving to that demand (you can't call it an idea when folks on this board have been suggesting exactly that for months and they're just now admitting it's needed). Hopefully most people will use that and hopefully that system wont be subject to scalping although I can't see how that would be possible. If a group leader needs to buy 40 tickets they will - so if he can any scalper can one way or another - and we absolutely don't want to be stopping larger groups from attending since that's how we get big name camps we all know and love.

Another thing I need to address - there aren't just 1.7x40,000 requests. The official word is that on average, each person requested 1.7 tickets. They still aren't releasing the number of persons that this equation involves. If 75,000 people signed up and wanted 1.7 tickets each that'd be 127,500 tickets. Just an example but as far as we know the system didn't stop people when 40,000 individuals had completed registration and there's been no hint of any stopping point like that so who knows where we stand right now. Our chance of winning is entirely dependent on yet another figure the org has but won't release. If this is the last we hear from them until the 2nd we'll just have to wait and see.

Fingers crossed, good luck to all burners out there new and old - here's hoping we see each other on the other side.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Ruleryak » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:58 pm

LegendZero wrote:This is/was/may be my birgin year decided September last year but I know several people trying to go because of that video. That said my buddy and I going only put in for 2 tickets because that was all we needed, now for the first time I am feeling anxious instead of elated about the drawing.
Me too - I put in for 2 - one for me and my friend. She did not register separately to double our chances. Being altruistic wasn't required but I'm sure we're not alone and here's hoping the universe rewards that :mrgreen:
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by jella » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:00 pm

Ok ok that's it ! GROUP HUG
Burning Man isn't about the stuff you see when you get there ....it's about the people that brought that stuff there

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by JaRail » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:27 pm

This was the obvious expected result.

Now, will the org please release the number of registrations so we know our odds? I'd like to know just how much of a clusterfuck really was caused here.

I can't wait to see the scalpers rape the STEP ticket exchange for face-value tickets the moment they're posted. *sigh*

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:33 pm

Nipple wrote:
This Woman wrote:Jella wrote: wow ...lighten up peeps

And now the attempts to silence dissent.
Look at how you attempt to silence her attempt to silence...
I hate this woman silenced until people started quoting her.

It hasn't changed my mind about the plonk.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Trigibb » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:38 pm

Ruleryak wrote:
A-RockLeFrench wrote:I'd even go so far as to argue that the "panic-ees" are hardly panicking. Merely voicing objections to what is perceived as an unfair, unbalanced system. I strongly disagree with the route that the ORG has taken, and will proudly declare so, however, I'd like to remind all the cool-headed non-panic-ees that I am in fact NOT PANICKING, as I feel most others are not panicking as well. Disagreement does NOT equal panic.
Christ on a god-damned stick thank you. We are not "panicking" we are not "whiners". We are reasonable people pointing out early on that this idea was poorly constructed. We are suggesting alternatives, explaining as best we can why logically this system is bound to fail.

And I see as a last minute response the org will now attempt to build a system for burners to resell extra tickets... I guess that's the best we can hope for at this point so that should hopefully calm down some of the folks that are actually in a panic. I want my ticket - sure - and I'll do my best to get one if I don't win the lottery, so a means of doing that safely at face value is appreciated. Score one for the powers that be for at least caving to that demand (you can't call it an idea when folks on this board have been suggesting exactly that for months and they're just now admitting it's needed). Hopefully most people will use that and hopefully that system wont be subject to scalping although I can't see how that would be possible. If a group leader needs to buy 40 tickets they will - so if he can any scalper can one way or another - and we absolutely don't want to be stopping larger groups from attending since that's how we get big name camps we all know and love.

Another thing I need to address - there aren't just 1.7x40,000 requests. The official word is that on average, each person requested 1.7 tickets. They still aren't releasing the number of persons that this equation involves. If 75,000 people signed up and wanted 1.7 tickets each that'd be 127,500 tickets. Just an example but as far as we know the system didn't stop people when 40,000 individuals had completed registration and there's been no hint of any stopping point like that so who knows where we stand right now. Our chance of winning is entirely dependent on yet another figure the org has but won't release. If this is the last we hear from them until the 2nd we'll just have to wait and see.

Fingers crossed, good luck to all burners out there new and old - here's hoping we see each other on the other side.
Lol finally A+

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:38 pm

i would never silence you crypto !!!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:41 pm

Ta, lemur!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by Katiebaby25 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:41 pm

Ruleryak wrote:
LegendZero wrote:This is/was/may be my birgin year decided September last year but I know several people trying to go because of that video. That said my buddy and I going only put in for 2 tickets because that was all we needed, now for the first time I am feeling anxious instead of elated about the drawing.
Me too - I put in for 2 - one for me and my friend. She did not register separately to double our chances. Being altruistic wasn't required but I'm sure we're not alone and here's hoping the universe rewards that :mrgreen:
I also only requested the 2 tickets that I need for my boyfriend and I and I'm also hoping that good karma rewards us for that. I totally agree with trilo that the main reason for the shortage is the hoarding and people getting others to enter the draw for them. Hopefully those people didn't ruin it for those of us who were honest.
*Sgnoflake*
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:48 pm

Because we all know that Karma is merely a rewards and punishments scheme for those who follow the rules or not...

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by karma_cat » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:50 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:Because we all know that Karma is merely a rewards and punishments scheme for those who follow the rules or not...
It's true ... I should know :)

But in cases like this it's my brother game_theory_dog who decides how things work. And he's had a field day with the lottery!!!

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by knowmad » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:52 pm

the fool that speaks about chance and knows nothing of statistical probability.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by remi » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:52 pm

The only way to determine if it was a fail/pass is to see how many people end up with tickets, compared to how many people obtained more then needed. Unfortunately, nobody here has the raw data (not even BMOrg) to determine that. Feb.2nd will be a good indicator though.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Post by lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Ruleryak wrote:

And I see as a last minute response the org will now attempt to build a system for burners to resell extra tickets...

Score one for the powers that be for at least caving to that demand (you can't call it an idea when folks on this board have been suggesting exactly that for months and they're just now admitting it's needed).
YOU KNOW.. youre totally right about this LAST MINUTE CAVING IN TO DEMAND that they JUST NOW realized was needed.. totally right bro

this is where i heard about their dramatic last minute concession..
Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks
Volume 16, Issue #5: 2012 TICKET INFORMATION
November 19, 2011

RESALE TICKETS: Burning Man plans to create a centralized online
system to facilitate the resale of unwanted/unneeded tickets. More
details will be announced soon.


DOOD, its like.. almost like they said this from only 1 week after they announced the lottery!! over 2 months ago!! holy moly.. this last minute concession is just jaw dropping!!!
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