Low Income Ticket Program

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Elliot » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:52 pm

trilobyte wrote:...database of known scammers.
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by KrisMuffin » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 pm

XnightmarekittenX wrote:
KrisMuffin wrote:Sorry, i was just Re-reading what you wrote and that might be tough. Think about it... I'm not sure just An essay will cut it to be honest. Not with the downfall on their heads about scalpers and all those will apply for this now the open sale is closed even if they don't need it. How Bout this: can you get an official notarized letter from the Any sort of official office? Unemploymeny? What about an old manager from a job? A Burner to write a letter of your behalf?
No unemployment, previous employer is no longer employed at the old job, could probably get a burner recommendation.

Some info!!!! This is the Response I got from my Facebook post about the low income tix situation from the Director of Communication and Reginal Burn Networks. I don't care what anyone says THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK :D !


Andie Grace "There will be an FAQ and details revealed, Kris. You're right more people are certainly likely to apply, but we've had a process for human review for a long time. Low Income tix are for those who really, honestly, couldn't afford the Main Sale prices anyway, and we are asking for verification of financial hardship, a consideration reviewed by humans and on several vectors. Watch the tickets page for more info prior to launch."
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by XnightmarekittenX » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:04 am

trilobyte wrote:I think it's been said before, but in addition to the documentation there will be a space where you can write an explanation of your situation. Be descriptive, and be honest - they're better at you think at catching sneaky people than you think, and it's probably not worth getting added to the dreaded database of known scammers.
Yeah I have read that before I just want to make sure what kind of documetation would be good in the case that you have no proof of your unemployment, in this case I am employed and I pay all expenses for my Bf and I so I have documentation while he does not even though we are in the low income situation together. I'm just not quite sure how to prove that (obviously we will have separate applications). That is why I asked about using a lease agreement as one of the documents for two separate people or something I really don't know what documents to use, obviously we can write a statement. I just do not want to be mistaken for a scammer of any kind.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by FeetOfClay » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:05 am

difficulty choosing between doing Low Income application, or doing STEP registration:

I am a college student, made 12k last year BEFORE taxes.

Not sure whether it would be wrong of me to apply for Low Income:
On one hand, I consider my income LOW and my life style frugal--
On the other hand, I DO have enough $$$ saved to afford even a $390 STEP ticket
(I opted into all pricing tiers for the lotto, got nuthin--as was true for many of us).

I emailed BMorg asking if there was any policy against applying to both STEP and LI at the same time.
They replied back that "LI is for those who cannot afford a ticket; you should not apply to both"...

So this leaves me feeling that I should NOT apply to LI--save it for those who truly NEED it.
But I fear that LI may be the only way for me to get tickets--who knows if anything but chirping crickets will be on STEP?

Also, I have a feeling that if I were to apply to both, BMorg would somehow track that and therefore disapprove my LI app. on the grounds that i can afford other tix.

Anyone else in this same boat? please advise...
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:18 am

Don't apply for low income. Of course the same ticketing team that advised you not to apply to both manages both the low income application process and STEP.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by FeetOfClay » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:33 am

Thank you Trilo--I know you're right :)
Guess the fears of not getting a ticket are warping my decision making skills a bit.

I need to just trust the process: STEP it is!
Keep your fingers crossed for me! :)
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by MyPlayaUserName » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:08 am

I don't understand how to show my lack of income. "here's a photo of nothing, see, no check from an employer"? Do I have to be legally labelled poor by the government in order to apply? Please help me comprehend this.

edit: read the faq. Sounds doable.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by tattoogoddess » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:31 am

trilobyte wrote:Don't apply for low income. Of course the same ticketing team that advised you not to apply to both manages both the low income application process and STEP.

So most likely they will check to see if they entered the lottery if they submit info in for the low income program?
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:59 am

@MPUN - wait til the 29th, then take a look at the application info/form.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by FeetOfClay » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:58 pm

[quote]So most likely they will check to see if they entered the lottery if they submit info in for the low income program?/quote]

TG: I have a feeling that is true, tho based on nothing but intuition. I speculate that, considering the LARGE numbers of frustrated, un-ticketed burners, BMorg will be FLOODED with LI ticket apps, more apps than they would have time to read in 6 weeks, or maybe six months! :) They'd need to find a way to quickly filter out any "bogus" apps.

Therefore, I would not be surprised (or even upset) if they did something like checking all the LI application names against the lotto database, and then eliminating anyone who has already "proven" they can afford another ticket (ie: by opting in to all tiers in lotto). Even if BMorg did not automatically disqualify them, maybe they'd just get put in a "maybe" pile, and only considered after those with greatest need are awarded LI tix?

Again, TOTAL SPECULATION HERE. Please do not allow this post to affect any decisions to apply, etc. Just offering a (barely) educated guess...
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by tattoogoddess » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:14 pm

I am hoping this will be the case. :(
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by mdmf007 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:52 pm

You do know that BMORG has some of the finest database and code writers available anywhere. They will certainly have the ability to track an app in LI and STEP, by name, IP, etc...

Hedging your bets is awesome, but may burn you here - this is my opinion and not based on any inside mod information.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by glitteranddust » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:05 am

I have someone I hope to have come with me and the original plan was to cross our fingers for her to get a low income ticket and for me to pay for most (if not all) of it. (I volunteer so I'm already settled for a ticket and did not go though any other sale.) However, I'm looking at the documentation thing now and wondering who should be filling that part out for honesty sake.

She is very low income as in she makes even less than me. (I'm ~$12k a year with 7/9 of my income going to rent.) I'm pretty sure that if you looked at her documents it'd be clear she cannot even afford a low income ticket (even if she were to go the sparkle pony route in regards to buying supplies) and so if she applied it might look like she was hiding something or like she simply wouldn't be able to pay enough to use it.

For transparency sake for determining income, does she apply?... Do I apply on her behalf and explain it's for her?.. Or do we apply together with her name as the ticket holder? Or....?

Also, while she's uber excited and I doubt this is going to happen... what happens if she doesn't make it? Do I just loose out on the $160 all together or is it refundable? (She's eager and has set the time aside... it's just that the idea of putting up so much money for someone whose plans are not really any bit in my control makes me ask such questions.)
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Elliot » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:21 am

Glitter, as I understand it, the Low Income tickets are to be paid for at the Will Call window on the Playa. So no risk whatsoever, and half a year to save up the 160.
I believe the application needs to be "hers", but there is no reason you cannot sit next to her at the computer and assist her.
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:46 am

What Elliot said. If it's to be her ticket, in her name, then she needs to fill that information out.

If the application is successful, then there will be a non-transferrable low income ticket in her name waiting for her at the box office. As the info on the ticket page states, no payment is taken at the time of application. If circumstances should change and she is unable to attend, she should send in an email to lowincome@burningman.com to cancel the ticket (also mentioned on the ticketing page).

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Victor Strong » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:15 am

Hallo everybody
My name is Victor, i'am 20 years old student from Russian Federation, Samara. This summer i want going to USA on student program "Work and Travel USA" and Burning man for me is one of important things why i'm going to USA. I don't have money at the time of main sale registration, and bank make my firs debt cart only 27 december this year, so i can't use the STEP system. Now on my cart near 250$ i sell my guitar and expected to take loan money from my friends and buy ticket in open sale on 28 march. But how we now open sale discontinued.
I'm full time student, not working and all document what i can show is my chek on debit card, cart of pension insurance, foreign passport and student id cart. All this documents except passport on russian language.I will give back 80% money from programm price to my parents, it's our pact. How you think have i chance to take ticket on Low Income Ticket Program?
Thanks and sorry if i made a few grammatical errors)

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:47 am

Only way to know is to apply :-)

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by maryanimal » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Ok, since the LI tickets will be paid for at the will call at the burn, is cash accepted? When you apply for the LI tickets, do they ask for a cc # and charge the ticket to it when you pick up your ticket?
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Marscrumbs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:23 pm

I would love to see some of the LI tickets offered like in the old Queen For a Day TV show format. With applause meters chosing worthy burners plus bonus prizes offered by big theme camps and art cars. I can see the happy tears now.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by perroquet » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:55 am

Hi there. First time poster. I'm a bit confused about the Low Income ticket program and I was hoping someone could give advice.

I'm a full time student, and I currently don't have an income. As such, I think that if anyone would technically be eligible for low income tickets, it would be someone with no income like me. I am living 100% on student loans and am at the end of a Ph.D. program. I don't work outside of school right now because I don't have time. However, I'm not living in abject poverty. As a student, I will one day have an income so I can potentially take on credit card debt or more loan debt.

I'm confused about whether to activate my STEP registration tomorrow, if doing so will ruin my chances in the low income program. I applied to the low income program within the first hour it was open. However, I'm not sure if a student would meet the criteria for low income. This is compared with someone who is truly living in poverty or or who is unemployed, or in a line of work where they will never have an income.

Any ideas?

Also.. special snowflake details for me...

The budget I submitted includes a high amount for personal expense, because of a medical situation in the past two years. If I do decide to forego STEP and just keep my low income application in there, I wonder if I should follow up with more documentation of my medical expenses. Otherwise they might wonder, "What are these other $6000 expenses?" I did state in the application that there were medical expenses but I didn't give details.

If someone could help me sort through what to do, that would be much appreciated!

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:04 am

Applying does not disqualify you, getting a ticket does. If you get a ticket through one program, you'll be disqualified from the other.

Document and explain what you can. Leaving out details on a significant chunk probably won't help you in any way.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by gyre » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:24 pm

maryanimal wrote:Ok, since the LI tickets will be paid for at the will call at the burn, is cash accepted? When you apply for the LI tickets, do they ask for a cc # and charge the ticket to it when you pick up your ticket?
Last time I picked up a will call ticket, cash was accepted.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Stephendragonfly » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:36 pm

I read and reread the Low Income Policy pretty carefully, Pick up ticket at will call, pay there. Not specified whether or not they can take credit/checks/etc. so if I get a LI ticket, I will have Cash on hand when I get to Will Call. Cash is King.

@Trilo,
Does this mean that many of the people who have been frustrated by the lottery program and didn't make it into STEP are now going to be entering the Low Income program with the same chances as someone like me, who knew that his only chance to get a ticket was Low Income and never entered the lotto?? That is frustrating, as I have already heard about people who are planning to fake W-2s to apply for LI tickets.

Of course it could just be another one of those silly rumors, real Burners, no matter how frustrated, wouldn't stoop to entering the Low Income Ticket Program dishonestly, would they??

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Savannah » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Stephendragonfly wrote:I read and reread the Low Income Policy pretty carefully, Pick up ticket at will call, pay there. Not specified whether or not they can take credit/checks/etc. so if I get a LI ticket, I will have Cash on hand when I get to Will Call. Cash is King.

@Trilo,
Does this mean that many of the people who have been frustrated by the lottery program and didn't make it into STEP are now going to be entering the Low Income program with the same chances as someone like me, who knew that his only chance to get a ticket was Low Income and never entered the lotto?? That is frustrating, as I have already heard about people who are planning to fake W-2s to apply for LI tickets.
I know you're talking to Trilo here, but I wanted to chat you up a bit. :)

Let the dishonest ones try their sorry, lying best. The low-income ticket folks will be looking at official forms all day, so when they see a forgery, it's probably going to stick out a little, just like fake tickets do at the Gate. The people processing this stuff will be looking for it; they may have screened these for years, and there will be some collected wisdom on how to spot liars. I'm sure there's a lot to it, and they're not going to say what they look for. But I'm certain they care greatly that people in genuinely low-income circumstances get the tickets, and not charlatans--otherwise there just wouldn't be low-income tickets at all. (The Org could make extra hundreds of dollars per few thousand tickets at regular price . . . but they don't). I know I would do my best, if it were up to me to choose the applicants. It would be fun to reward the honest, and equally fun to catch the liars. Wouldn't you be as eagle-eyed as possible, if you were screening apps? I'm guessing yes.

You can only control your own application. You can't control the asshat sitting alone at home making stuff up, though . . . so consider letting that go. Think of your health!
Of course it could just be another one of those silly rumors, real Burners, no matter how frustrated, wouldn't stoop to entering the Low Income Ticket Program dishonestly, would they??
Some will actually try. Other trollish sorts will claim they will try, because they're angry or like to be controversial, but will ultimately find it to be too much work.
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by probablyrustin » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:48 am

i'm in agreement with that - let the dishonest ones try. if they make it, cool - they just lied their way into burning man, and that's their loss. i don't think you should concern yourself too much with the poor morals of others when applying, cause it's going to happen no matter what, in any ticketing situation this year. don't think of it as a "competition" - just do your best to fill out the application and if it's meant to be, you'll get a ticket.

i sat out the lottery and waited for low income knowing it's what I could manage. did any of us know beforehand that the lottery would be such a clusterf**k and cause the program to have tons more entries? not really. but it doesn't really change the reality of what my plan was. i filled out the app to the best of my abilities, and if a ticket comes my way, then great - BM2012 is on. if not, then i'll start looking forward to 2013. it's as simple as that.

if at this stage in this ticket mess, you haven't prepared yourself for the possibility that you might not be able to get a ticket (and that that wouldn't be the end of the world), then i suggest starting to face facts.

(and if you seriously "know" of people planning on faking tax documents - stand up to them! "real burners" wouldn't do that, but real burners also wouldn't stand by and let people they know cheat a well-intentioned program at the potential cost of deserving, earnest applications. if that's really how they want to make it there, let them try, but i'd make it clear that if they got tickets on such terms, they could count me out of their burn group/camp/whatever)

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:11 am

@gyre - card only this year.

@Stephendragonfly - it's completely expected that there will be a ton of additional people submitting applications to the low income program because of the current situation with tickets. But the low income program is not a drawing, it's based on need. There's nothing wrong with an honest application, the worst that can happen is that the individual is not successful. The team reviews the applications pretty carefully, and anyone found to be dishonest in their application may not just get rejected, but very well find themselves on what I call the 'list of permanent doom' (the list of known scammers and scalpers).

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Marscrumbs » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:53 am

Be prepared. A new private low income program may occur in August when scalpers sitting on their horde of tickets will have to dump them. Free market forces in a default world. Have faith in Big Miracles.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by Marscrumbs » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:58 am

MyPlayaUserName wrote:I don't understand how to show my lack of income. "here's a photo of nothing, see, no check from an employer"? Do I have to be legally labelled poor by the government in order to apply? Please help me comprehend this.

edit: read the faq. Sounds doable.
A really low income persons could prove their worthiness by having to pan handle at Willcall to pay for their ticket. I remember seeing people like that in years past. But this is far from radical self reliance unless they are also selling NDN tacos.

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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by The Hustler » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:15 pm

I almost forgot about the low income thing.

How silly of me. I assume all of the tickets are gone, but it's worth a try. I'm now waiting for the link to begin the application process. I wonder if it helps that half of my 2011 income of $27k was unemployment or that my 1040 shows I owe taxes.

Maybe if I can go thing year, I can apply to volunteer at Media Mecca again.
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Re: Low Income Ticket Program

Post by trilobyte » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:43 am

DEFINITELY worth a try. They're awarded based on need, not first-come, first-serve.

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