Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Kimo » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:41 am

Fuck tickets – make it a FREE event. The ultimate playa gift!

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by domitron » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:54 am

Colonel Kurtz wrote:Did The Borg not see this train wreck coming based on last year's sellout?
I think they DID see this coming, but the problem was that the "solution" actually made things worse. Let's say they had kept the old system. What would have happened? I think they would have definitely sold out in the first day or two, maybe even sooner. But the old system at least increased the chance that one who had their shit together and was on the terminal the minute they started selling tickets had a high chance of getting a ticket before they sold out. And that would have included the many people who are in the major theme camps that get placement and pour tens of thousands of dollars into gifting the community. There still wouldn't have been enough tickets under the old system, but the shortage wouldn't have destroyed the continuity of camps that have attended for a long time and really make the event very special through their efforts.

I hear a lot of people saying that this is all good because it's like spring cleaning or something. I don't know how you clean your place, but I don't take a random selection of what is lying around and just throw it out. I am selective, and the old process was inherently selective too. And besides why is pure dumb luck a better criteria to determine who will get tickets than being on the terminal when ticket sales start? It isn't.

We see that Burning Man has released a statement that many major theme camps have less than 25% tickets now. This is bad because, like it or not, those camps do contribute enormously to the community in countless ways and shape the event. In their place we're likely to have a bunch of virgins who were just lucky enough to win the lottery. Now don't get me wrong, I like virgins, and like everyone here I was one too (in 2004). But the question isn't about liking and disliking anyone. It is about taking a limited resource and increasing the odds of someone who really contributes a lot to the community and has their shit together of being able to attend. The lottery totally failed that objective, and if there isn't something done, the event this year isn't going to be as artistic or interesting as it has been in years past.

Regardless of what approach we take next year to handle this, the underlying problem of such a low population limit will have to be addressed or it'll ruin the spirit of the event. That might mean switching locations or addressing the limited access ways to the event, etc. And I am sure there are other problems I have not heard about besides the highways that will have to be ironed out.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:29 am

Colonel Kurtz wrote:This year's ticket lottery is the Abu Ghraib of BM. Taints the whole legitimacy of the operation. BM now has a credibility issue.
Abu Ghraib might be a bit much, but the lack of credibility is dead on.
Colonel Kurtz wrote: I am optimistic that the broader Burner community will prevail and find the solution to community growth to keep the dream alive.
If Black Rock City wants to grow unhindered, the solution lies in abolishment of the population ceiling. This choice seems to always bring about the most challenges, though such endeavors are the hallmark of what makes our community great. Everything we see on the playa, from tesla coils to flame throwers to pirate ships, all were once a challenge existing only in a mind's eye. Should one be fearful of the permits to build a bonfire, only to light a candle instead?

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:45 am

Kimo wrote:Fuck tickets – make it a FREE event. The ultimate playa gift!
Isn't that how this whole thing got started? Didn't it already outgrow it's location and go out into the middle of nowhere. Wasn't an agreement made to trade money for permits? Isn't that why we buy tickets?

On a side note, for those of us lucky enough to live close to the playa, can't you just go? Pack up those speaker cabinets and head out there! No one is stopping you, open up a bar and dish out the spirits for a week. Any week! Tell your friends!

If all the burners can't go once a year. Is it a better choice for some of the burners to go many times a year?

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by teal1960 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:53 pm

Hi, I created this petition with a possible solution, as the only solution to this is the one we create as a community. Please read and if it inspires you SIGN IT!


http://www.change.org/petitions/the-bur ... ok_friends

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Dustdevil » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:14 pm

I cannot sign a petition that begins with an assumption rather than a fact. There is no conclusive evidence that scalpers are the cause of the ticket situation. With only 78 of the 40,000 plus tickets sold have made it to StubHub I would like to see cites of where your information comes from if it is not your own speculation. Four weeks ago the Youtube video "Oh the places you'll go at Burning Man" went viral with close to 1.3M views. It would seem just as likely, if not more so, that this video could have caused a spike in ticket demand.

"With the introduction of the lottery system there is an inequality in the distribution of tickets. The scalpers have succeeded in procuring tickets, but theme camps are finding that in some cases only a handful of members have been awarded tickets."
Those who think they can and those who think they can't are both right.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by dunkk » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:30 pm

Wrath wrote:
Colonel Kurtz wrote:This year's ticket lottery is the Abu Ghraib of BM. Taints the whole legitimacy of the operation. BM now has a credibility issue.
Abu Ghraib might be a bit much, but the lack of credibility is dead on.
Colonel Kurtz wrote: I am optimistic that the broader Burner community will prevail and find the solution to community growth to keep the dream alive.
If Black Rock City wants to grow unhindered, the solution lies in abolishment of the population ceiling. This choice seems to always bring about the most challenges, though such endeavors are the hallmark of what makes our community great. Everything we see on the playa, from tesla coils to flame throwers to pirate ships, all were once a challenge existing only in a mind's eye. Should one be fearful of the permits to build a bonfire, only to light a candle instead?
The population ceiling is for good reason. There is only one highway in and out. It can handle only a limited number of vehicles.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Isotopia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:31 pm

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by ZaphodBurner » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:35 pm

Dustdevil wrote: Four weeks ago the Youtube video "Oh the places you'll go at Burning Man" went viral with close to 1.3M views. It would seem just as likely, if not more so, that this video could have caused a spike in ticket demand.
Wow, I'd completely forgot about that. I bet you're right.

I was visiting my dad and he had it up on his computer. He said "Jeez, if I'd have known THAT'S what Burning Man was all about I'd have gone every year."

Seemed like time was, there weren't "documentary crews" running around everywhere and you could ride your bike around center camp without getting in the way of somebody's photograph. Now, everybody films everything so they can show all their friends, and the easiest way to do that is on YouTube.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by BEASTMASTERBURNS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:09 pm

TICKET PROBLEM = SOLVED! HEAR ME OUT!

There are 5 problems with tickets this year. i believe i can solve every issue.

Problem 1: Supply/Demand

Problem 2: 40% of burners got tickets

Problem 3: 60% of burners were denied tickets

Problem 4: Scalpers

Problem 5: Next year


With 40% of burners having tickets, statistically 60% of their friends will be staying home. Some camps have 12/12 tickets, others have 0/20, and others every number in-between. Others will fight and pay $2000 dollars, and still leave half their friends at home. But when you have someone paying $2000 for a $400 ticket, you are losing $1600 of money that can be spent supporting the community with supplies. Multiply this out and you'll have a lot of camps who spent too much to be there, so theres no money left to provide a Burners Service. Scalpers are abusing and taking advantage of US, OUR HOME, AND OUR ONE WEEK A YEAR TO BE THERE. I believe it is EVERYONES right to be a burner, especially first timers. There is no better gift in the world to give someone than a week on the playa. I believe Burning Man Management CAN SOLVE ALL OF THESE ISSUES AT ONCE.

The playa is limited to 50,000 people, and that can't change. Clearly, more than 50,000 people call Black Rock City home. Everyone would love to go every year, but clearly thats no longer possible. This year after the lottery there are obviously a lot of angry burners, who think Burning Man has lost its way. I believe I can make every burner a happy burner.

Everyone who recieved a denial email, and ONLY those who received one should be entered into the 40,000 ticket lottery for 2013. We need to hold the lottery NOW. Instead of 40% of people receiving tickets for this year, 80% of people will have tickets for this year or next year. Camps will now instead have 10/20 tickets, but 10 for 2012 and 10 for 2013. The STEP program will be BOOMING with entire camps trading tickets, as they figure out which year works best for them. Those 20% who receive a second denial letter can be given a code which entered on the STEP website will give them an icon as a preferred buyer. All the people who signed up two or three times will now have extra tickets which can be sold via STEP at FACE VALUE. I believe EVERYONE who signed up for a ticket can get one.

THE CITY OF DREAMS CAN BE HOME TO 100,000 HAPPY BURNERS, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS TAKE TURNS.

I believe every burner is willing to pay around $400 to get there, but anything more than that is climbing too high. With the increase in supply all the would be scalpers would be forced to sell their tickets at FACE VALUE, and never try to scalp a burning man ticket again.

NO BURNER WILL EVER HAVE TO PAY 2000 DOLLARS AND LEAVE HALF THEIR FRIENDS AT HOME.

This process can be repeated in 2014. Just sell tickets for two years and let the people decide what year is better. With the lottery some folks will even be lucky enough to go both years BUT this way NO CAMP WILL EVER BE SPLIT IN TWO. I LOVE YOU AND I LOVE BLACKROCK CITY WE CAN'T LET IT BE DESTROYED SIMPLY BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WANT TO GO. PLEASE REPOST IN EVERY THREAD UNTIL BURNING MAN MANAGEMENT SEES IT!!

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:12 pm

BUT this way NO CAMP WILL EVER BE SPLIT IN TWO. I LOVE YOU AND I LOVE BLACKROCK CITY WE CAN'T LET IT BE DESTROYED SIMPLY BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WANT TO GO. PLEASE REPOST IN EVERY THREAD UNTIL BURNING MAN MANAGEMENT SEES IT!

um, No.


now go away YOU MINDLESS PARSNIP, you bother me.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:32 pm

dunkk wrote: The population ceiling is for good reason. There is only one highway in and out. It can handle only a limited number of vehicles.
I have a feeling traffic alone isn't the culprit.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Bull Bunny » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:32 pm

I spent several hours today contacting every ticket resaler on the net. Here is the gist of what I suggested to them:


Just a serious suggestion. There is an intense internet firestorm over companies reselling Burning Man tickets. Burning Man isn't like other events you resell. Your company is often mentioned in these bad publicity situations. Bad, I know, but here exists an opportunity for your company to make history. Pull all listings for BM tickets, publisize your decision, and garner intense good will from the public. This publicity will be worth many times the fees you get from offering these tickets. Ebay,
Vividseats, and many other companies are already considering this suggestion, if you get on the stick you can cash in and be the first. The rest will be seen as johny-come-latelies. Take this seriously, the opportunity is there for the taking.

Let's encourage as many others as we can to contact these companies with this concept. Who knows?

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by piehole » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:33 pm

Bull Bunny wrote:I spent several hours today contacting every ticket resaler on the net. Here is the gist of what I suggested to them:


Just a serious suggestion. There is an intense internet firestorm over companies reselling Burning Man tickets. Burning Man isn't like other events you resell. Your company is often mentioned in these bad publicity situations. Bad, I know, but here exists an opportunity for your company to make history. Pull all listings for BM tickets, publisize your decision, and garner intense good will from the public. This publicity will be worth many times the fees you get from offering these tickets. Ebay,
Vividseats, and many other companies are already considering this suggestion, if you get on the stick you can cash in and be the first. The rest will be seen as johny-come-latelies. Take this seriously, the opportunity is there for the taking.

Let's encourage as many others as we can to contact these companies with this concept. Who knows?

Grassroots efforts are the way to go. I think I will spend some time doing this as well.
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by nncoco » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:56 pm

I first attended burning Man in 1999. In the mid 2000's took a long break for my work.

When I returned to the Playa in 2008 I thought the whole event was a lot better.

Why was it better? THEME CAMPS.

Theme camps, official or not listed, are the heart and soul of Burning Man.

The people behind these camps need to be recognized by the organization and assured access to the tickets they need without having to participate in a lottery. Just find out who they are and give them an access code that assures them a tickets the following year.

Every theme camp area has it's mayor. That person can ID and nominate people they see who are behind the camps.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:21 pm

Colonel Kurtz wrote:Did The Borg not see this train wreck coming based on last year's sellout? Time I think to either renegotiate BLM cap on attendees or find another venue that allows for next phase of BRC growth.
Renegotiate the population cap! Why didn't I think of that?
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Lex-Leo » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:30 pm

Bull Bunny wrote:I spent several hours today contacting every ticket resaler on the net. Here is the gist of what I suggested to them:


Just a serious suggestion. There is an intense internet firestorm over companies reselling Burning Man tickets. Burning Man isn't like other events you resell. Your company is often mentioned in these bad publicity situations. Bad, I know, but here exists an opportunity for your company to make history. Pull all listings for BM tickets, publisize your decision, and garner intense good will from the public. This publicity will be worth many times the fees you get from offering these tickets. Ebay,
Vividseats, and many other companies are already considering this suggestion, if you get on the stick you can cash in and be the first. The rest will be seen as johny-come-latelies. Take this seriously, the opportunity is there for the taking.

Let's encourage as many others as we can to contact these companies with this concept. Who knows?
Awesome Idea!!! Maybe the only solution to the ticket clusterfuck that actually has a chance.
MORE DUBSTEP PLEASE!

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:52 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Colonel Kurtz wrote:I think to either renegotiate BLM cap
Renegotiate the population cap!
Does anyone know the reasons stopping this? People keep saying the highway but I'm thinking it's more along the lines of there aren't enough cops.

If no one has any insider info I'm sure we can hold a lottery to decide who will make reasons up.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by CornMan » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:55 pm

Wrath wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Colonel Kurtz wrote:I think to either renegotiate BLM cap
Renegotiate the population cap!
Does anyone know the reasons stopping this? People keep saying the highway but I'm thinking it's more along the lines of there aren't enough cops.

If no one has any insider info I'm sure we can hold a lottery to decide who will make reasons up.
Yes, they have a strong need to protect us from ourselves. Either that, or it's that they like the revenue from the drug violation tickets.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:03 pm

I think they could find more cops if they wanted.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:08 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote: Yes, they have a strong need to protect us from ourselves. Either that, or it's that they like the revenue from the drug violation tickets.
Possibly... although some three ring binder somewhere telling how many cops can adequately patrol so many people keeps going through my head. Some BLM nerd negotiating while thinking of this, and their job.

This is what gets me. Someone somewhere, if it's BLM, the Org, a county commissioner, a senator, someone's kid, SOMEONE decided that 50,000 is the limit and anything more is impossible. Who is this person? What do they want? Do they like chocolate? Nutella? Could we promise them hair washings for a year?

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Wrath » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:10 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I think they could find more cops if they wanted.
Where are they all going to sleep? I heard a rumor that the existing solution already sells out all the local motels.

MOREOVER this is exactly what I'm getting at. Unless the 50,001st person through the gates will successfully divide by zero and end all existence WHAT IS THE ISSUE?. Reason is failing me. Something larger must be at work.

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Galaxo Magic » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:33 pm

It is a highway issue. There isn't one. It is a two-lane road with virtually no shoulder. It is a clusterfuck to deal with. Add in the 6+ hour Exodus and if you increase the population cap you will significantly increase the Exodus time.

Crazy ideas list:
1) Have the Exodus come out just 'south' of Gerlach.
2) Have BMorg build another highway lane, so there would be an extra lane in the direction of travel. Of course, to build 80 miles of road would cost $50 million or more........

You can get more cops but you can't get more road without great expense....
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by CornMan » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:52 pm

I really don't get the highway argument. Has anybody ever seen stop-and-go traffic on 447 except maybe for some minor delays in the towns? Most of the accidents are from people driving too fast and trying to dodge those big rabbits. I'd try to sneak a peek at the festival when I drive past Gerlach, but I'm driving too fast to take too long of a peek. On exodus, as soon as we hit the asphalt, we're up and speeding along.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:54 pm

Wrath wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I think they could find more cops if they wanted.
Where are they all going to sleep? I heard a rumor that the existing solution already sells out all the local motels.
"All the local hotels" is Bruno's which I don't think has ten rooms. The rest camp on playa. Or at least a good chunk of them do. I suppose there might be some people staying in Wadsworth or Fernley. Which would mean more than an hour's commute each way, and the difficulty of being caught in the traffic jam of thousands of cars on a two lane highway.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by BBadger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:59 pm

Wrath, remember that this is a BLM permit negotiation year, and that last year was a single-year permit capped around 50,000. Prior to that, we had a 5-year permit going from about 32500 people up to 50,000. In 2007 and 2008 the population surpassed the 6% growth estimate by a large amount nearly reaching the maximum 50,000 people. Those over-estimate populations were still under the maximum cap, and so long as BMOrg had adequate facilities, that was permissible.

Last year was a single-year, 50,000-cap permit, lacking the flexibility the previous permit enabled. In effect, the permit prevented much variance from the 50,000 maximum population, despite possible growth. We saw the result in the final month as tickets sold out for the first time.

This year is a (another?) permit negotiation year. The BLM permit has not yet been issued. BMOrg is trying for another 5-year permit that would allow the population to swell up to 70,000 participants by 2016. The status of this permit is still under wraps. It may end up that we have another 50,000-capped permit if negotiations fall-through. Such a permit might enable BMOrg to sell more tickets to alleviate the ticket situation, but who really knows? Perhaps 50,000 is the maximum size an event like this can be permitted to have given factors such as the road, exodus, etc. The fact that no long-term permit was obtained last year could imply that such issues have not been resolved.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:08 pm

Thanks, BBadger. I was reduced to some sort of dry sarcasm with that observation. But you did a nice job of summing up the situation.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by Finxiekins » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:15 pm

BBadger wrote:Wrath, remember that this is a BLM permit negotiation year, and that last year was a single-year permit capped around 50,000. Prior to that, we had a 5-year permit going from about 32500 people up to 50,000. In 2007 and 2008 the population surpassed the 6% growth estimate by a large amount nearly reaching the maximum 50,000 people. Those over-estimate populations were still under the maximum cap, and so long as BMOrg had adequate facilities, that was permissible.

Last year was a single-year, 50,000-cap permit, lacking the flexibility the previous permit enabled. In effect, the permit prevented much variance from the 50,000 maximum population, despite possible growth. We saw the result in the final month as tickets sold out for the first time.

This year is a (another?) permit negotiation year. The BLM permit has not yet been issued. BMOrg is trying for another 5-year permit that would allow the population to swell up to 70,000 participants by 2016. The status of this permit is still under wraps. It may end up that we have another 50,000-capped permit if negotiations fall-through. Such a permit might enable BMOrg to sell more tickets to alleviate the ticket situation, but who really knows? Perhaps 50,000 is the maximum size an event like this can be permitted to have given factors such as the road, exodus, etc. The fact that no long-term permit was obtained last year could imply that such issues have not been resolved.
Forgive me, but this will probably be a stupid question to some. I take it that BLM has to get permits due to environmental impcact, pollution, etc. etc. So, it would stand to reason that it's hard (even with people as dedicated as burners), to clean up after 50,000 people. So, that could also factor into permit size, correct?

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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:20 pm

Yes, although we passed the clean up in October. (I think there's another one in the spring after the winter rains have given the playa a stir.) I did post links to the permit stipulations for last year and the Environmental Assessment for 2006-2010 on another thread in this sub forum... It's hard to read those and see where the actual cruxes are, but I thought we'd get a different class of idiocy if people actually read them.
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Re: Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:22 pm

The Department of Public Works is out there for weeks after the event cleaning up. You'll find us old timers jump on anyone who says they are bringing or wearing feathers. Glitter's another problem. Glass is discouraged.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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