2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

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Dr Dilemma
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Dr Dilemma » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:36 pm

For the past 4 years our camp, Paradise Motel has provides a shady spot for folks to stop in for a snow cone and enjoy some progressive beats while lounging by the "pool". We had about 30 members last year. We only got 5 tickets for this year, which makes me highly doubt we'll be able to plan anything for this year. While I understand why folks want to take an "everything will work out attitude" I'm afraid that only spectators can afford to have that attitude. We rent a truck to haul our shade structure out. Should we put a deposit down on it now when the driver doesn't have a ticket yet? If drastic action isn't taken, I don't see how we'll get significantly more tickets in the second sale, as 70% of them will probably go to scalpers too. ( See: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers. If no drastic action is taken by BMorg, then BEST case scenario: another couple of people get tickets at the next sale and the rest will have to get tickets from scalpers in June, at a substantially higher price, and not assured everyone will be able to get a ticket. Even if everyone manages to get one, paying god knows what the scalpers will want is will suck huge amounts of money away from things like snow cone syrup, ice, etc. etc. that we need to buy to make the camp happen. We simply can't wait till June to know if we will have enough people to pull off a camp so we should make arrangements / submit for placement / take time off / book flights ... The only people that this isn't a real issue for are folks that aren't bringing anything that would require more than a month of planning.

This is our camp last year:

Image
Image

We WERE planning on adding a dome structure this year. The 40x30 shade structure is in good shape and could be brought again, but we need to rent a truck to be able to bring it.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by matt_freedman » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:40 pm

[quote="matt_freedman"]For my theme camp, 11 people won tickets in the lottery, 16 were denied and the rest haven't yet reported."[/quote]

Update -- 13 people have tickets, 22 were denied, the rest haven't responded. Our camp is typically around 45 people. We can't make it happen without a core group of at least 25-30.

We're not sure what to do. It's like the BMORG is trying to drive us away.

If that happens, our domes will not get built. Hundreds of people will not receive massages, healing treatments, reiki, facials and other interactive services. All the random folks who normally spend time relaxing and dancing in our welcoming, beautiful and comfortable domes will have to find another spot -- perhaps the inside of an RV filled with package tourists? And those seeking to recharge their batteries will have to rely on gas-powered generators instead of our clean, efficient solar system.

I'm hearing similar stories from everyone I know in the SF Bay Area. Many camps are in crisis. Everyone is reconsidering whether they really want to go in 2012.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by haz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:21 pm

I'm sorry but this argument rings so hollow. Syd Gris has been banging this drum for years. Lets see, you have huge well-funded camps like District and Opulent Temple, both of which have the resources of professional event throwers/restauranteurs/bar-owners, etc. behind them. Some, like Opulent Temple, make huge sums of money throughout the year with their affiliated event promotions business (i.e. Opel). Then you have artists that almost universally are on a shoe-string budget. Even the big art projects here are financially challenged whereas the big DJs, for example, are not. Its just not a fair comparison. When you bring Elite Force to perform at District they're not starving. They can come without tickets. And lets not pretend District is run/operated by poor people.
Yo, Distrikter here, core along with Pipey. Just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions:
I can't speak for any other sound camps, but as far as Distrikt goes, we are a non-profit. As such, we don't make a dime (by law AND our own personal philosophy). The capital that makes our camp go comes from four places:
1) camper dues
2) fundraisers
3) donations (be it booze, mixers, ice, money, etc)
4) a mind boggling amount of time and labor from those who believe in what we do and wish to contribute.

I'm glad we come off as well funded, and through our own hard work, I suppose you could say that is true. But we do not pay DJs, and we do not have any sort of angel sponsor. The vast majority of our funds come from people paying $10 a head at the door to our fundraisers and camp members paying their dues (more the style of Obama fundraising in 2008 as opposed to Superpacs today). What we do would be very difficult to pull off if any of those channels were cut off. As it stands, with so few tickets in hand, 1 and 4 are in jeopardy.
This has and always will be an arts festival and artists (not musicians or DJs) are the core of the event....Its not the Burning Man Electronic Music Festival its the Burning Man Arts Festival.
Ah, what's in a name, eh? I suppose there are a few who go just for the art, and a few who go just for the music, but I would venture that nowadays, a substantial portion, perhaps even a majority, goes for both. Heck, we're even doing our best to BLUR those lines...you may not consider music to be art, but Elite Force, who made a track for Distrikt as a gift, might disagree with you. And the camp members who hand strung the thousands of beads on the bar chandeliers and who built 15 foot tall "trees" to live on our desert dance floor...they CERTAINLY would disagree. Not to mention the art grant we are giving out. It is our hope to be as much a part of the art community as anyone else, if you'd have us.

Back to the big/small camp issue, sounds like folks like RevDusty are in the same boat as us: trying for a large installation (be it sound, art, or theme) is problematic to plan an execute when when only 30% of the people you depend on to help pull it off are guaranteed entry. And really, this is what it is about for us. We don't need gifted tickets or even discounted ones (we've all always paid for our tickets before)...we just need to know that, at the end of the day, we are going to have tickets in hand. Heck, I'll even go so far out on a limb to say we deserve that. If you want to call that preferential treatment, so be it.

As for the device you use that has let you know what Burning Man "always will be", would you be so kind as to peer into it and let me know what the ticket sales plan will be for 2013? Just trying to plan ahead. :wink:

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by RevDusty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:15 pm

Pipey wrote:
RevDusty wrote:@pipey
Art projects funded by grants are *not* guaranteed free tickets at all. I was on a large funded art project, and while we did get gift tickets, that didn't happen until mid-summer (if I recall correctly). And it was a nice surprise. No one was working hard on that project for a free ticket, we were working to make an awesome thing.

I'm not really concerned with a village deconstructing...I never thought much of them anyway. Theme camps will morph and fuse and work out some way...maybe not as big and grand as before, and maybe that is not necessary.

Large sound camps: add nothing to the event for me, I go for the art, creativity, and whimsy. No offense intended, just my individual preference, but if they are drastically reduced in number, I don't see any negative for the event.

Whereas, a reduction in art (both big and small), I see as a real issue. Your mileage may vary.

Disclosure: my theme camp is probably in the 20 - 30 % ticketed range. It sucks, and ultimately it is a drain on energy that should go to planning great stuff for the event.
@RevDusty - points noted and validated. I actually helped with events/fundraising for the Temple of Flux a couple of years back. My experience was the same as yours that the artist tickets came mid summer - and yes, that's late to be sure for camps such as ours which will be locked & loaded in trailers by then. I'm sorry you don't enjoy the sound camps. It's clearly a love/hate. We only try to give the love end. All the best to you & your efforts this year. I completely agree that less art (both big & small) would be a huge loss to the fullness of the event.

@pipey
I don't hate the sound camps :) (in fact I've been involved in creating some sort of electronic music since the '80's), and I think the 10 and 2 placement works well. But they are not the reason I go to the playa. That's all. I think the big issue here is that we would expect to see more tickets in our "networks" and nobody is (as far as I can tell), and that's where the planning issue (a necessity for big, whether art or sound) has us all discombobulated.

Here's hoping we all pull it off.
Rev. Dusty Sportswood

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Killbuck
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Killbuck » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:24 pm

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Pipey » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:52 pm

Kernul Killbuck wrote:.
Satire has arrived! Awesome! If we can't get all of the art (whatever your definition is) and theme camps out there, it's nice to see them manifest here. :D

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Eisenfaust » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:06 pm

Just a bit of an update from Thunderdome.

We're currently at 8 tickets, total, out of ~40 or so people checking in.

That said, we'll be there. We may be reduced in staffing, but fuck if we're not going to build and run the dome anyways. We might be a bit cranky and overworked, but we're very much in :challenge accepted: mode over this.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Paperboy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:19 pm

I have a vision of Larry Harvey on the front of one of the vehicles, trussed, tied down tight, stetson akimbo, eyes bulging, and the quiet caption below this picture:

Thunderdome only got 8 tickets.




[quote="Eisenfaust"]Just a bit of an update from Thunderdome.

We're currently at 8 tickets, total, out of ~40 or so people checking in.

That said, we'll be there. We may be reduced in staffing, but fuck if we're not going to build and run the dome anyways. We might be a bit cranky and overworked, but we're very much in :challenge accepted: mode over this.[/quote]
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:45 pm

Eisenfaust wrote:Just a bit of an update from Thunderdome.

We're currently at 8 tickets, total, out of ~40 or so people checking in.

That said, we'll be there. We may be reduced in staffing, but fuck if we're not going to build and run the dome anyways. We might be a bit cranky and overworked, but we're very much in :challenge accepted: mode over this.
Bravo! Never say die!

P.S. Kernel, I love the phone booth.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Hypnobella » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:10 pm

[quote="Paperboy"]I have a vision of Larry Harvey on the front of one of the vehicles, trussed, tied down tight, stetson akimbo, eyes bulging, and the quiet caption below this picture:

Thunderdome only got 8 tickets.




[quote="Eisenfaust"]Just a bit of an update from Thunderdome.

We're currently at 8 tickets, total, out of ~40 or so people checking in.

That said, we'll be there. We may be reduced in staffing, but fuck if we're not going to build and run the dome anyways. We might be a bit cranky and overworked, but we're very much in :challenge accepted: mode over this.[/quote][/quote]


Oh the shirt design ideas this year are endless......;)
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by inthecolumbiagorge » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:30 pm

So how about all us "Burgins" hook up with the theme camps and invest our time and money to help get things happening the way they should this year? I am in! Who has a theme camp in the NW (Portland area would be best but could probably manage Seattle) and needs 4 ticketed newbs? Will donate time and as much funds as we can to help a theme camp do what they do. We will give 100%!

Any other virgins out there that want to help out with this?

I understand this does not help those without tickets make it to the Playa which of course is the big issue. It does however keep these amazingly important and integral camps going in a year that has much confusion.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by trigs » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:59 pm

inthecolumbiagorge wrote:So how about all us "Burgins" hook up with the theme camps and invest our time and money to help get things happening the way they should this year? I am in! Who has a theme camp in the NW (Portland area would be best but could probably manage Seattle) and needs 4 ticketed newbs? Will donate time and as much funds as we can to help a theme camp do what they do. We will give 100%!

Any other virgins out there that want to help out with this?

I understand this does not help those without tickets make it to the Playa which of course is the big issue. It does however keep these amazingly important and integral camps going in a year that has much confusion.
YES! I'm a virgin who didn't get a ticket, but I had been thinking this as I read through all of the replies here. There must be plenty of newbies who would be stoked to really jump in and help make things happen. If I had gotten a ticket, I would be one of them. I know that doesn't change the fact that your old friends might not be there, especially if they were a key organizer. It sucks. It's disappointing, frustrating, and I absolutely feel for everyone in that boat. If missing friends and added stress ruins the whole thing for you and you decide to take the year off, that's understandable. But if your camp *really* wants to be there no matter what - give the newcomers a chance.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Killbuck » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:11 am

Quote: "P.S. Kernel, I love the phone booth."

Oh yes... but it needs something.... ok, here--

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by mshaman » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:56 am

Update on Lustrous In-Dust-rious / Burning Oasis camp: Of 36, 12 got tickets. I'm owner/builder of the infrastructure (2 diesel RV's, 3 Airstream trailers, generators, sound system, gray water system, shade structure, etc.) and I don't have a ticket. The FL team still plans to bring the Nautibus (45' double-decker party bus) and a tiny art car (pirate ship). The Gypsy Wagon (with roof-deck for burns, tarot/psychic/medium readings below) and War Rocket Ajax (from 1980 Flash Gordon, made from our Airstream parts trailer) won't get built this year. Scaling back on infrastructure, getting it down to the minimum required do the burn, not building anything we can't get our money out of or redeploy in some way that has nothing to do with the burn.

Regionals will be hammered this year, way over capacity, so we're thinking of taking some time in the woods and figuring out what art we can create that isn't dependent on Burning Man.
The road of life is littered with flat squirrels who couldn't decide.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by shykat » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:57 am

^^ why is there allways a naked guy in every group?????
I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to ...Jimi Hendrix

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by mshaman » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:08 am

shykat wrote:^^ why is there allways a naked guy in every group?????
Huh? In my camp we "just say no" to shirtcockers.
The road of life is littered with flat squirrels who couldn't decide.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by mshaman » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:35 am

trigs wrote:
inthecolumbiagorge wrote:So how about all us "Burgins" hook up with the theme camps and invest our time and money to help get things happening the way they should this year? I am in! Who has a theme camp in the NW (Portland area would be best but could probably manage Seattle) and needs 4 ticketed newbs? Will donate time and as much funds as we can to help a theme camp do what they do. We will give 100%!

Any other virgins out there that want to help out with this?

I understand this does not help those without tickets make it to the Playa which of course is the big issue. It does however keep these amazingly important and integral camps going in a year that has much confusion.
YES! I'm a virgin who didn't get a ticket, but I had been thinking this as I read through all of the replies here. There must be plenty of newbies who would be stoked to really jump in and help make things happen. If I had gotten a ticket, I would be one of them. I know that doesn't change the fact that your old friends might not be there, especially if they were a key organizer. It sucks. It's disappointing, frustrating, and I absolutely feel for everyone in that boat. If missing friends and added stress ruins the whole thing for you and you decide to take the year off, that's understandable. But if your camp *really* wants to be there no matter what - give the newcomers a chance.
For us, there's both good and bad in this. In fact we're hoping to repair the gaping holes in our lineup with some new members. When we bitch about things please understand it's nothing against newbies, it's just that we had a group of people assembled that we knew. They have a good vibe, minimum drama, they don't drink 'till they puke in my RV's, they don't throw tantrums, and they have a genuine desire to have fun and create. They've already been trained, know how to set up the shade structure, how to wash dishes without wasting water, and we genuinely like each other. It'll be like not seeing your family on Christmas.

So taking on new burgins doesn't mitigate the grief or loss of having our family broken up.

If we take the time to screen them (we don't just want warm bodies, we want contributors), train them, and learn what they need to flourish, burgins could be a huge asset and make the difference between fielding an entry and not fielding an entry. We're open to this. If someone lives in Colorado and is mechanically inclined, knows welding, fabrication, carpentry, auto mechanics, or set painting, I'd love to get a PM from them. We'll rejoice our newfound members, but we'll still grieve our losses.
The road of life is littered with flat squirrels who couldn't decide.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by shykat » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:06 am

mshaman wrote:
shykat wrote:^^ why is there allways a naked guy in every group?????
Huh? In my camp we "just say no" to shirtcockers.

Was reffering to the Kurnel's pic above your post, your post beat my comment.....
I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to ...Jimi Hendrix

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Mitch » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:22 am

mshaman wrote: When we bitch about things please understand it's nothing against newbies, it's just that we had a group of people assembled that we knew. They have a good vibe, minimum drama, they don't drink 'till they puke in my RV's, they don't throw tantrums, and they have a genuine desire to have fun and create. They've already been trained, know how to set up the shade structure, how to wash dishes without wasting water, and we genuinely like each other. It'll be like not seeing your family on Christmas.

Best thing I've read all week.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by trigs » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:30 pm

mshaman wrote:
trigs wrote:
inthecolumbiagorge wrote:So how about all us "Burgins" hook up with the theme camps and invest our time and money to help get things happening the way they should this year? I am in! Who has a theme camp in the NW (Portland area would be best but could probably manage Seattle) and needs 4 ticketed newbs? Will donate time and as much funds as we can to help a theme camp do what they do. We will give 100%!

Any other virgins out there that want to help out with this?

I understand this does not help those without tickets make it to the Playa which of course is the big issue. It does however keep these amazingly important and integral camps going in a year that has much confusion.
YES! I'm a virgin who didn't get a ticket, but I had been thinking this as I read through all of the replies here. There must be plenty of newbies who would be stoked to really jump in and help make things happen. If I had gotten a ticket, I would be one of them. I know that doesn't change the fact that your old friends might not be there, especially if they were a key organizer. It sucks. It's disappointing, frustrating, and I absolutely feel for everyone in that boat. If missing friends and added stress ruins the whole thing for you and you decide to take the year off, that's understandable. But if your camp *really* wants to be there no matter what - give the newcomers a chance.
For us, there's both good and bad in this. In fact we're hoping to repair the gaping holes in our lineup with some new members. When we bitch about things please understand it's nothing against newbies, it's just that we had a group of people assembled that we knew. They have a good vibe, minimum drama, they don't drink 'till they puke in my RV's, they don't throw tantrums, and they have a genuine desire to have fun and create. They've already been trained, know how to set up the shade structure, how to wash dishes without wasting water, and we genuinely like each other. It'll be like not seeing your family on Christmas.

So taking on new burgins doesn't mitigate the grief or loss of having our family broken up.

If we take the time to screen them (we don't just want warm bodies, we want contributors), train them, and learn what they need to flourish, burgins could be a huge asset and make the difference between fielding an entry and not fielding an entry. We're open to this. If someone lives in Colorado and is mechanically inclined, knows welding, fabrication, carpentry, auto mechanics, or set painting, I'd love to get a PM from them. We'll rejoice our newfound members, but we'll still grieve our losses.
I can see where you're coming from on every point. I have a yearly meet-up with friends from other states, and if someone tried to tell me "oh, just swap 'em out with some new people, it'll be fine." I would not appreciate it either. I don't take any offense to all the vets being sad, frustrated, and needing to vent. Totally understandable. And yes, training a new crop of contributors won't be a cakewalk given the number of elements that need to be in place for a happy fit. But thank you for being open to the possibility. I hope you get a few awesome people that make it well worth the extra effort. :)

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by CaptainVic » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 pm

Members of our camp, the Children of Chaos, received 6 out of 15 requested tickets (40%). Added to this the grim fact is that about 10 of our regular members did not enter the January lottery, and were thinking about getting tickets later in the year. (Maybe a few of them will get tickets later in the year). I guess we did a little better in the lottery than most camps. In any case, since two of our three primary organzers got tickets, we will go forward with our theme camp application this year. Having said that, we will have to scale back camp activities for 2012. Our performance artists did not get tickets, our art director did not get a ticket, and our food coordinator did not get a ticket. I expect that we will still host our conversation bar, and host a parade or two, but on a smaller scale. Our costume parades have been popular in previous years, with many participants coming from other camps. Several from other camps collect costume material all year and bring it to give away to whoever shows up for the parade. I expect they are also having trouble getting tickets this year.

Sure, I will probably make some new friends this year, but I am going to greatly miss my burner buddies that I see every year in BRC. Right now our group, which includes many long-time burners, is depressed, and enthusiasm for Burning Man 2012 has faded.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by ZaphodBurner » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:54 pm

mshaman wrote:
When we bitch about things please understand it's nothing against newbies, it's just that we had a group of people assembled that we knew. They have a good vibe, minimum drama, they don't drink 'till they puke in my RV's, they don't throw tantrums, and they have a genuine desire to have fun and create. They've already been trained, know how to set up the shade structure, how to wash dishes without wasting water, and we genuinely like each other. It'll be like not seeing your family on Christmas.

So taking on new burgins doesn't mitigate the grief or loss of having our family broken up.
And, there it is. Our root beer expert didn't get tickets. Our absinthe expert didn't get tickets. 1 of our 5 art car (Fokker Triplane, a la the Red Baron) people got a ticket, and not the couple who volunteered to buy the trailer. We love virgins, but in order to build the Black Rock City they've all heard about for them, we need our veterans.
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by EB11 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:03 pm

Do something about it and urge the rest in your camp to do the same!

Sign this petition to recall the lottery and sell non-transferrable tickets.
http://signon.org/sign/burning-man-lott ... by=2342080

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:35 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote: We love virgins, but in order to build the Black Rock City they've all heard about for them, we need our veterans.

yer doing it wrong.


you talk all this high minded rhetoric about virgins but then come off with this 'US vs. THEM' crap, talking about it like the veterans are some parent holding the virgins hand... making stuff for them, giving them a place to frolic. BS.

no.


we make because we make, we do because we do, we create because we create.

we are all the "us", we are all one community.. there is nothing better or more wise or valuable about being a veteran..

there is no THEM..

there is no inexperienced noob who needs to be stewarded or shown the way, or built a playground to play on by the adults..

just thinking that encourages more entitled bullshit.


no.

there is no THEM.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by P.Ram » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:50 pm

lemur wrote:there is no inexperienced noob who needs to be stewarded or shown the way, or built a playground to play on by the adults..

just thinking that encourages more entitled bullshit.
Hear, hear.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Galaxo Magic » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:39 pm

jazure wrote:We are a theme camp. Our camp has really come together around our creation of a large art car called "The Monaco". You may have seen her in the past two years - she is a three-masted 1/2 scale replica of an American Frigate that is actually able to cruise around under wind power (if it is windy enough). It was not an inexpensive project (~45K in already and a 5K per year), Additionally, it take a core crew of people (including the captain) to get her to the Playa, rig it, and operate it ... all for the enjoyment of others. At this point, we have one confirmed ticket (of 40+) - and that is not even the captain. We hope that somehow tickets manifest themselves - because a skeleton crew would not make it very feasible.

~fingers crossed~
Love the Monaco. Some of the pictures of her this last year were awesome! I sure hope you folks can round up a crew of tickets and bring her back!
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Galaxo Magic
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Galaxo Magic » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:01 pm

RevDusty wrote:@pipey
Art projects funded by grants are *not* guaranteed free tickets at all. I was on a large funded art project, and while we did get gift tickets, that didn't happen until mid-summer (if I recall correctly). And it was a nice surprise. No one was working hard on that project for a free ticket, we were working to make an awesome thing.

I'm not really concerned with a village deconstructing...I never thought much of them anyway. Theme camps will morph and fuse and work out some way...maybe not as big and grand as before, and maybe that is not necessary.

Large sound camps: add nothing to the event for me, I go for the art, creativity, and whimsy. No offense intended, just my individual preference, but if they are drastically reduced in number, I don't see any negative for the event.

Whereas, a reduction in art (both big and small), I see as a real issue. Your mileage may vary.

Disclosure: my theme camp is probably in the 20 - 30 % ticketed range. It sucks, and ultimately it is a drain on energy that should go to planning great stuff for the event.
RevDusty, well said and I agree with you. It's just my never-to-humble opinion. The art, whether giant and beautiful or small and simple, is the main draw. I don't do the 'raves' at all and don't really like what they add. That being said, it is all-inclusive so I have no issue with them being there. However, given my druthers I would rather help find tickets for art projects, not sound camps.

Ok, got my ear plugs in, so fire away.....
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Hypnobella
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Hypnobella » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:02 am

[quote="lemur"][quote="ZaphodBurner"]
We love virgins, [b]but[/b] in order to build the Black Rock City they've all heard about[b] for them[/b], [b]we [/b]need [b]our[/b] veterans.[/quote]


[size=150]yer doing it wrong.[/size]


you talk all this high minded rhetoric about virgins but then come off with this 'US vs. THEM' crap, talking about it like the veterans are some parent holding the virgins hand... making stuff for them, giving them a place to frolic. BS.

[size=150]no.[/size]


we make because we make, we do because we do, we create because we create.

we are all the "us", we are all one community.. there is nothing better or more wise or valuable about being a veteran..

there is no THEM..

there is no inexperienced noob who needs to be stewarded or shown the way, or built a playground to play on by the adults..

just thinking that encourages more entitled bullshit.


no.

there is no THEM.[/quote]



AGREED. A theme camp is a sink or swim environment-Being a virgin has nothing to do with it, and my camp has found some of it's most hard-working, reliable members from grabbing noobs off the playa in desperation. They aren't children. They aren't stupid. They may need advice on staying healthy and comfortable on the playa, but especially this year, when so many camps will show up short-handed, the unattached and the new will be a wealth of opportunity to get some fresh blood.
"Days Since Last Injury:0-Bringing You Senseless Violence Since 1999"

udawggy
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by udawggy » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:11 am

I want to test the waters here. I have been going for 8 years, and I have a 2nd year theme camp now.
Here's a thought regarding theme camps being fragmented due to the ticket fiasco...

Would camps be down to band together, and go full force ahead with your theme camps- DURING 4TH of JUPLAYA?

I'd love this, and would probably skip the official BM event all together this year. Think about it and post. Might work? Just an idea- haven't thought this thru yet.

mshaman
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by mshaman » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:10 am

udawggy wrote:I want to test the waters here. I have been going for 8 years, and I have a 2nd year theme camp now.
Here's a thought regarding theme camps being fragmented due to the ticket fiasco...

Would camps be down to band together, and go full force ahead with your theme camps- DURING 4TH of JUPLAYA?

I'd love this, and would probably skip the official BM event all together this year. Think about it and post. Might work? Just an idea- haven't thought this thru yet.
I would A) dig this, B) fear intervention from the BLM in future years. The BLM wants control. That's one of the central elements of the ticket supply problem. On the other hand, if it's just big sound camps, not big art collectives and theme camps that provide other services, I will cheer you on but make sure I miss it. I don't dig dubstep.
The road of life is littered with flat squirrels who couldn't decide.

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