2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by particle » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:11 pm

While I sympathize with the stress cause by not getting tickets, why is everyone assuming this is it? There's still the open sale and ticket resales, and the latter will probably be HUGE.

Think about it this way - from 2010 to 2011 total participants grew about 5%. The amount of people left outside in 2012 can't be much larger than the same number in 2011 plus about 5%, assuming the same amount of growth. So - all the tickets are still there, they haven't somehow disappeared to people that usually don't go to Burning Man, they'll just be redistributed during the open sale and resale.

You could even think that most first-timers, "tourists" or non-participants probably don't plan their trip this early on, so they probably usually don't get their tickets in January. But this year, you have to start looking early if you want to get a ticket. Therefore it might be more likely that only people SERIOUS about going to Burning Man will have tickets, and we'll end up with more participation and more people that have planned things out for months.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:31 pm

The reason this is causing so much stress for theme camps is that not everybody wants to pour their heart and soul into a project for an event that they may or may not get to attend. Getting a theme camp off the ground involves more than just stopping en route at BevMo, buying a few cans of beer, show up, and saying, "Here we are!" Also, not all theme camps' members are local. It is a leap of faith to buy a flight ticket only to possibly spend a week idling away time in the Reno casinos. What theme camps that do emerge from all this could possibly be overrun by spectators who after walking around the open playa for an hour or two have nothing more to do than look for action. This could be a boon for the independent, small camps. Maybe flashing LED lights around an "Open Camp" sign could indicate a visitor friendly camp.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:01 pm

Spending time on ePlaya the last few days, I think our theme camp did well. Of the core builders we scored about 80% of our tickets, of the rest of camp maybe 50%. But we feel very lucky compared to most theme camps. I got my ticket! I should be dancing a jig! But I am very depressed. This should be a day of excitement but we are scrambling.

One thing we can guess, EVERY major theme camp got screwed to some extent (unless they are in bed with the BMorg). The Great Ticket Debacle of 2012 has fractured the community like a fallen china vase.

Again, I got my ticket, our theme camp did pretty well but I am not happy with how this played out at all. and PLEASE do not buy tickets from scalpers! Rely on your fellow burners and STEP. I feel badly for BMorg. They certainly did not expect or want this crisis. But they have it, now, how will they deal with it.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:08 pm

particle wrote:While I sympathize with the stress cause by not getting tickets, why is everyone assuming this is it? There's still the open sale and ticket resales, and the latter will probably be HUGE.

Think about it this way - from 2010 to 2011 total participants grew about 5%. The amount of people left outside in 2012 can't be much larger than the same number in 2011 plus about 5%, assuming the same amount of growth. So - all the tickets are still there, they haven't somehow disappeared to people that usually don't go to Burning Man, they'll just be redistributed during the open sale and resale.

You could even think that most first-timers, "tourists" or non-participants probably don't plan their trip this early on, so they probably usually don't get their tickets in January. But this year, you have to start looking early if you want to get a ticket. Therefore it might be more likely that only people SERIOUS about going to Burning Man will have tickets, and we'll end up with more participation and more people that have planned things out for months.
Well, check eBay and StubHub, you will see that a large number of tickets went to scalpers, so yes, there will be tickets available, but you'll have to pay a lot more. Do the math, if 70k wanted tickets and 40k got tickets, that means 30k will be trying for the last 10k. I have my ticket but I am not a happy camper. So many people I know did NOT get tickets. I pray they can all get them but the odds seem stacked against them.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by anile » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:22 pm

Yeah, we bring a lot to the city... a dome with awesome shade, lights,a space for live musicians to play every night and most days, an art project, an interactive collaboration every day... Because we are a smallish camp (actually 48 people, not 28 as I mistyped before) we depend on our folks to really work hard to produce the features of our camp. The folks who don't have tickets are:
the guy in charge of rigging the cammo
the gal in charge of building the dome
the guy in charge of coordinating power and distribution
the guys in charge of lighting the living area
the guy in charge of lighting for shows
the guy bringing the lions share of the art installation
the gal in charge of rigging the shade structure
the guy in charge of booking bands

So , yeah, that pretty much kills our camp.

We presented an art project on the playa across from camp last year. It's planned to be a 3 year project. Last year was the creation of 805 of the banners, erecting and working out bugs. This year was to be increasing numbers of banners and adding a sonic environment component and working out the bugs with that. Next year we would take it to deep playa. With the project leader and the majority of the camp ticketless, the reality of this vision, and raising the money for it, becomes exponentially more difficult.

I feel that other theme camp coordinators can understand the position we are left in, and I appreciate the camaraderie and empathy in this thread. Thanks.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by BlackRockCityPimp » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:22 pm

small unofficial camp of 30 with all tix awarded and total of 6 extra. all tickets were purchased at highest tier with an attempt to purchase 60. no tickets available for resale as the 6 extras are for gifting.

i wonder if the price ppl went for might have had something to do with the amount awarded. most ppl i know go for higher tix to support the art and allow for ppl not doing good financially to get lower priced tix.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Dr Helix » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:28 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:So, maybe this coming year will be a year of small surprises. Maybe there won't be a lot of big bars, but there might be all sorts of little bars wandering the playa, ala "A Shot in the Dark". The event existed before theme camps. In fact, the advent of theme camps was so unnoticed at the time that htere is disagreement about what the first theme camp was. Maybe you and your neighbors will improvise a theme camp on playa. Maybe you'll connect with different people and do a different theme camp.
One of the things I love about the burn is that it brings us face to face with the fact that nothing is certain. "No expectations".

Well said fishy. My camp got completely shut out except for myself and my wife who bought in the pre-sale. What will happen? Who knows? Maybe she and I will hold down the fort. Maybe they will get tix down the road and camp will be the same. Maybe they'll be no camp at all and we'll just be out there. I just know that it will be different and there's nothing wrong with different.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Ed Phunk » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:33 pm

Pipey wrote:
Ed Phunk wrote:Not asking you to decide.. discuss. Theme/sound camps weren't always a major part of the event, at least of the scale you see now (Disorient, Distrikt, etc etc)
The same question should be posed to art installations, should it not? They were never the size of infrastructure or headcount as they are now. But yet, are guaranteed group entry. If size is a discussion, it should be posed across the entire event.
VERY valid point. I think there might be an argument to guarantee a set number of tickets for large theme camps. Especially those that are awarded spots on the Esplanade..

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by graidawg » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:49 pm

hiya TnT been wondering where you went.
anyway i find it quite sadenning that exactly what was predicted by the community here would happen HAS happenned, no camp has enough members to d what they have planned, core people dont have tickets, now if 50% of the people who need tickets to set up camps havent got one even if camps are combined to make something happen half of everything isnt going to be there. Are the virgins going to make Bm happen? I think this year is going to be just TTITD. but then i think it will be fun, if half of the people that are going are going because of the "places" video or other things they have seen and read it will be full of people looking for a good time, not knowing what to expect so for them it will still be an amazing experience, its the vet burners who will wondering what happenned to opulent temple or fandango or whatever camps dont make it this year, placement will be easier and things even more random.
on the downside arrests will probably go up, crime and general frat boy behaviour unchecked. well i have a ticket, so do all the others in the sub camp we planned for so if nothing else we can try to entertain the unwashed masses.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by renzomatic » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:17 pm

As a burner since 97, yes, post Wired article, which I agree was a significant turning point, what I have learned is that BM's growth has taught me one thing about "community". And that is, as a community grows larger, the negative aspects of a community are inevitable. These things being bureaucracy, regulations, a 'police force', rules, public safety, DPW, DMV, zoning, you name it. This lottery is just another outgrowth of this growth.

This is the second largest issue that I am aware of to hit BM. The first was the small rebellion of a few years ago from some original dedicated burners against BMORG with their stance that BMORG had lost sight of the original principles and had become a non-listening, non-responsive, non-supportive corporate entity. They staged their insurrection and it was successful in creating a lot of traffic on message boards, and they had their moment on the plays, but today? Well, many of those who started that movement either left entirely, or just sucked up and now are silent.

This lottery system is the same type of thing thing. They have moved away from individuals being able to make their own decisions as to whether to buy early or be an idiot and wait til July to purchase their tickets. This lottery is BMORG saying "we don't care who comes, or who plans, or who have been with us for years; you are a number to us, if you get a ticket, welcome. If you have contributed in the past, well, put your number in the ball, and good luck to you."

When an event grows beyond the capabilities of knowing those around you, a nameless bureaucracy must be formed, and those bureaucracies don't care whether you designed the Temple (true story, the person that designed one of the Temples did not get a ticket) or not. You are a number.

How better to disillusion so many, who have put in so much, over so many years, than to say that, your involvement is based upon a "lottery system"?

This lottery system will be looked upon as a crucial moment in the history of BM.

Already, my camp, one well known and with good historical connections, is considering not attending. We have stayed on for years, even with the tightening of rules: some 1st year n00b telling us our vehicle didn't meet their DMV requirements, not playing with fire, etc, but now, this? At some point, either the event has outgrown us, or we have outgrown it.

Before I sign off, I have one comment to one of the earliest posters...from very early on, there were theme camps, but back in the day, when 5K-9K showed up, these were camps of a bunch of silly happy people surrounding their camps with torches and calling themselves silly names. These groupings have been one of the reasons BM became fun, it wasn't a bunch of tents, but actually groupings of people, you had little groups of small interests. Maybe they didn't have neon, but they called themselves something, to commemorate the moment. Again, it was inevitable that as the event became more established (and grew), and that we knew we would come again, that small groups would improve upon their camps, would build the infrastructure to go from a paper plate sign to a lighted archway. Who was the first "theme Camp"? It could've been "three guys with a gun...and lots of stuffed animals" or as I heard it called "Drive by Shooting camp". Camps have always been a part of BM, even when they were separated by a mile of playa, whether they had a sign or registered as a 'theme camp' or not.

When I hear "No Expectations", I disagree, and say, "My expectation (and it has been confirmed over the years) is that there will be another rule".

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by KenfromLA » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:22 pm

Camp Charlie with Charlie the Unicorn art car here.

As far as I can tell, we're in the 40% or worse state. I've been telling everyone it will be OK once STEP kicks in, but based on the comments here, it seems that no one has gotten spare tickets. NO ONE. That means that no one will have tickets to put into STEP. Which means all of the theme camp/art car/hard core burners are going to go bananas for the 10,000 open sale tickets. Good luck with that.

Yep, this blows. I'm thinking either the scalpers cleaned up, or there are a ton of virgins or a combo.

People like certainty. This is definitely causing a lot of anxiety amongst our group, and an overall feeling of blehhhh. They need it to take time off from work, buy airline tickets, rent an RV. And now we have to wait, and wait, and... wait.... for another two full months before we will know if we are all going to make it. And THEN we get to start making plans.

I'm not sure if the lottery will survive for 2013, but at the very least BORG needs to accelerate the process. Step should be launched NOW. And the 10K tickets should be sold a few weeks after. That would at the very least reduce the uncertainty by 30 days.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by PsyctecB » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:48 pm

The world needs optimistic people, those that go with the flow and are equally happy no matter the outcome. We also need those who see something wrong and will stand up yelling “Hell no!” It helps to keep life balanced. The ticket lottery has taken many of my easy going friends from being someone who went with the flow to someone saying “Hell no!” This tips the community out of balance. Face it this has become a default world of instant gratification. It wasn’t convenient, but it was gratifying, to sit online (or have a friend do you the favor) and have confirmation of your ticket purchase. It had actually become quite a social event with friends online having coffee and giving updates. Yes, there were snafus, I’ve been dropped or couldn’t find the link. Still I knew that when I was giving up my credit card information I was getting tickets for it. Every year that I have attended, I have purchased four or more tickets (not all first tier) to help my camp mates that didn’t have credit cards, didn’t have the money just yet or even just didn’t have tickets yet. In some cases, I have paid for the tickets and waited months to be paid. I never charge more than my cost. It may not mean much to some but I literally tie up my time and money to benefit others. I have purchased tickets through eplaya for a quarter of my camp one year. I have a village comprised of several smaller camps. I do the organization and bring them together so that they can have a presence no matter their size. We are highly interactive and spend a significant amount of time and money to go to the event and gift to the community. This will be my camp’s 5th anniversary. I won’t lie, it is a struggle every year. Power, transportation, set-up, clean-up, coordination, planning and re-planning, meetings, fund raising and break-downs along the way. The journey home is never without challenges. Seriously, it is hard to get commitments and something always happens. Yes we plan, then we plan a back-up, and then back that up so that somehow we survive and make it happen. Every year tickets are an issue with camp mates. Key people wait to the last minute, somebody new wants to come with one group, funds are limited, there are tons of reasons that we are always looking for tickets within the community. There have always been tickets listed by scalpers and other venues, mostly counterfeit. Very few took that route for purchasing though. So, last year tickets were selling faster than normal. It was a big anniversary year with added attraction of CORE projects. Announcements were made in July that “It will sell out”, alerting scalpers that there would be money to be made if it sold out. Still, it took six months to get there. It sold out and procrastinators whined, some paid the scalpers making it profitable. The biggest year ever took six months to sell out. We scrambled and found tickets for the key people who needed them within our community. This is making it significantly more difficult from a camp perspective.
My personal belief would have been to lay low. “Yes, we had a banner year for our anniversary but without the economy rebounding we don’t expect that to happen again.” Put the resources into the existing system that allowed every Burner that could commit and had the resources to secure tickets so that they could begin serious planning. Scalpers would be leery of investing huge amounts of money until it was close to being sold out. In the mean time, serious Burners that scrambled at the end last year should have a head’s up to plan early for tickets. My opinion is that an artificial sense of urgency was created when the announcement came that the system must be changed because it is clear that there will be more demand than availability. Then a two week window was provided for scalpers to get minions registered for the lottery. I did get tickets for me and my husband, but now will need to also sit in queue on March 28th to help camp mates get theirs. However with the highly inflated prices I will have to limit how much help I can offer. I might feel better if I was hearing that people got extra tickets. That is not what I am hearing. I am hearing large percentages of people who normally would have a ticket not getting one. Any that become available will quickly be gobbled by local community and never see the STEP system. Would you want to see an extra ticket go to a friend that didn’t get one this year or a stranger that is computer assigned? Being that I put in a lot of work to organize my camp, at this point had I not been awarded my tickets, I would have serious doubts about being able to secure them. Several of my camp leaders did not get tickets. How are they going to feel about organizing and putting in their time and then fighting to get a ticket from somewhere? This was home, a place that we felt we belonged. A place that we worked hard to make the experience that it is. We feel abandoned and unwanted, others feel orphaned by the lottery rejection. It isn’t the same welcoming feeling. Maybe regional’s will grow and give us that warm fuzzy back that we are missing. Maybe feelings will change once we make it home. Our village will be there this year, in what-ever capacity, and will see how anxious we are to start planning the following year after seeing how it all shakes out. I disliked the lottery from the start but tried to keep faith that most would get tickets. I haven’t confirmed with everyone yet, but we are running about 20% got tickets. I guess I need more friends/family with available credit to increase/further dilute my chances. It is too early in planning to have this much stress. Good for those able to still go with the flow, the world needs you. Likewise, don’t dismiss the real feelings this lottery invoked in others and the stress they may feel over it.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by pink » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:00 pm

Paragraphs please?
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by fenwick » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:10 pm

by pink,
Paragraphs please?

oh no - the net police are here.....

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by EspressoDude » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:29 pm

do paragraphs guarantee tickets?
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:41 pm

Great post PsyctecB. Well said and without venom. I know many that share this same feeling. Good luck to you and your camp.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:47 pm

jgailor wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:Basically, what I hear is: "Cope. Try a little harder.
This is not possible. It went from a deterministic system where you get in line, you have a place, and if you got in line before other people you got a ticket to a completely non-deterministic one where the selection is random. You can't just try a little harder. You can wake up earlier, get a faster internet connection, buy all your camps tickets from a group bank account. No matter how much more effort you put into it, you have just as much of a chance as someone who showed up at the last minute.
EXACTLY. Thank you.
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by matt_freedman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:59 pm

Sorry for the repost, but it's more on-point in this thread...

For my theme camp, 11 people won tickets in the lottery, 16 were denied and the rest haven't yet reported. Those who didn't get tickets include myself (a key organizer) and many of the core elders who really make the camp happen every year. It's not clear whether our camp (Salon Soleil -- founded in 2004) will happen in 2012 absent a major shift in ticket availability. None of us are motivated to start planning without clarity on whether our core people have tickets. We're all in a state of collective shock.

It's really our fault -- we listened to the BMORG when they told us to only submit for the number of tickets we needed. We should have known that good actors would be punished and bad actors would be rewarded. Had we properly understood the system, we would have all submitted multiple lottery entries in order to compete with the scalpers and ensure that our camp had enough tickets. Unless the system changes, we'll do what everyone else will do -- submit hundreds of entries, play the percentages, and hope for enough tickets to cover our entire group.

The ticket system needs to be reformed. I agree with those who propose a system where tickets are coded to specific names in a database and cannot be resold. Those who buy tickets but need to bail should be allowed to cancel (up until early August), have their money refunded, and the ticket should be resold through BMORG. Every ticket should be held at will-call with entrants providing IDs at the gate and checked against the master list. I've selected will-call tickets for many years and never had a problem at the gate.

Without this type of change, BM will be increasingly dominated by the following:

(1) VIP package tourists who arrive with wheeled suitcases, inhabit pre-made camps and are served by paid staff

(2) Europeans in RVs who are attracted by the idea of a giant rave and participate by giving out a few cans of beer to strangers

(3) Virgins who arrive ready to consume, but not necessarily prepared to contribute

Perhaps 2012 marks the end of an era. If so, I will be very sad. But life goes on.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by vargaso » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:17 pm

Just heard from another member of our camp who scored 2 tickets, so already things are looking up. I hope this is the worst day of this new ticketing scheme, I'm thinking it might be.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:49 pm

renzomatic wrote: This lottery is BMORG saying "we don't care who comes, or who plans, or who have been with us for years; you are a number to us, if you get a ticket, welcome. If you have contributed in the past, well, put your number in the ball, and good luck to you."
Awesome. That's all every single person I know who tried to buy a ticket this year is saying.

Instead of putting energy into making an absinthe saloon, I'm going to have to put it into getting tickets. My wife and I were thinking, what if we could set up some sort of volunteer call center. People--actual burner-people on actual phones--could say "My name is Mary and I want to buy a Burning Man ticket" and a volunteer on the other end could say "We have one available for ticket value of $$$" or "We don't have tickets now, but give me your contact info, we'll put you in line, and notify you just as soon as one becomes available." (In a Nigel Tufnel accent.)

Ten volunteers could take a thousand calls in a day. A few days of it doing it and a whole lot of burners will have tickets, and it will help monkey-wrench the scalpers who are intending to hack the next purchase round.

If anybody has an actual interest and capacity to figure out a way to do this, I will volunteer, even answer phones. (In a Ted McMahon accent: "YES!!")
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by alt12 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:50 pm

Pipey wrote: The same question should be posed to art installations, should it not? They were never the size of infrastructure or headcount as they are now. But yet, are guaranteed group entry. If size is a discussion, it should be posed across the entire event.

I'm sorry but this argument rings so hollow. Syd Gris has been banging this drum for years. Lets see, you have huge well-funded camps like District and Opulent Temple, both of which have the resources of professional event throwers/restauranteurs/bar-owners, etc. behind them. Some, like Opulent Temple, make huge sums of money throughout the year with their affiliated event promotions business (i.e. Opel). Then you have artists that almost universally are on a shoe-string budget. Even the big art projects here are financially challenged whereas the big DJs, for example, are not. Its just not a fair comparison. When you bring Elite Force to perform at District they're not starving. They can come without tickets. And lets not pretend District is run/operated by poor people.

And, hate to be so blunt, but there is much more supply of large-scale sound camps than there is demand. Notice that aside from the 3-5 popular sound camps every years, you have 20 or so sound camps with 50-100K sound systems all up and down 2:00 and 10:00 and well known DJs coming by to perform but no crowds, no audience. They are almost empty. Then you have the 100 or so art-car sound camps. Should they get tickets? They throw huge parties on the playa and draw as big as a crowd as any of the fixed-place theme camps. But again, they are also run by DJs who get paid quite a bit of money and can afford deck out their sound-car with $100K worth of gear which they will use for for-profit events during the rest of the year.

Bottom line, music generates money. Art rarely does. I believe is just that art is subsidized here.

Don't ge me wrong. I love jamming out at all these sound camps, I just don't think they deserve any special accommodation versus any other camp. This has and always will be an arts festival and artists (not musicians or DJs) are the core of the event....Its not the Burning Man Electronic Music Festival its the Burning Man Arts Festival. If it were, I'm sure you'd have free tickets out the ying-yang....

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by jazure » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:51 pm

We are a theme camp. Our camp has really come together around our creation of a large art car called "The Monaco". You may have seen her in the past two years - she is a three-masted 1/2 scale replica of an American Frigate that is actually able to cruise around under wind power (if it is windy enough). It was not an inexpensive project (~45K in already and a 5K per year), Additionally, it take a core crew of people (including the captain) to get her to the Playa, rig it, and operate it ... all for the enjoyment of others. At this point, we have one confirmed ticket (of 40+) - and that is not even the captain. We hope that somehow tickets manifest themselves - because a skeleton crew would not make it very feasible.

~fingers crossed~

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FandangoLiz
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by FandangoLiz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:52 am

Hi all,
reports are not quite in from the many who camp with us, but at present, there will be no Fandango at Burning Man this year. First time in the 14 years of its existence.

A handful of our number(like 6 out of 300) applied for and got tickets, but the majority did not even bother. There will be no BRBC, no Fandango Bar (unless our SLO wing feels ambitious, gets tickets, & is willing to bring it all out there), no Thursday night Bootie party, and no randomly thought-of, non-BMorg-sponsored art.

We opted to take the year off. Do tell us how it all turns out. Might be fun without all the big sound camps, but then I just can't picture it without the Thunderdome.

Have a blast out there.
Fandango!

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Paperboy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:54 am

What amazes me is why this was not foreseen. First we have in our community as mentioned earlier, the minds to do this right.

Second, all of our names are in the data base. I know because they send me a post card each year.

How hard would it be to set up a system that ask past burners if they wanted to buy a ticket?

How obvious was it that burners were going to buy more than two tickets if they could, so their camp mates could come.

I don't know of anyone(12 year burner, this would have been 13)that had any plans for the extra tickets they didn't get, except to sell them at face value to fellow burners that either couldn't buy now, or didn't.

Not sure if people like that got kicked out, but the ones i know that tried that got none! Surely it would be anticipated that we'd want to help each other!

Now that Marian confirms that it's about one third, we have to seriously consider alternatives. Most of us in theme camps simply can not go through yet another anxiety laced ordeal. First it was placement. Then it was Early Arrival passes. Now we don't even know if we get in? All so we can build a city.

I realize, and know that the community of Black Rock City is not the LLC. We are an amazing group of people that surmount all sorts of odds to make this happen(and if you haven't been for 10 or more days in a row, believe me, you can't know what i'm talking about)build the city, and give away whatever art, love, or other gifts many of us work on all year to bring. There is, or must be a breaking point.

Many of us are indeed contemplating alternative situations. Why? Because we need each other. We are after all burners, and we do have an ethos. The majority of ones I know, do not and will not buy scalped tickets, we just won't. It would be like selling our souls.

We will find a way to be together again. It might not be called BRC any more, but damn it, you can't keep a good burner down.

I'm pretty sure if a bunch of rich sparkle ponies show up, it will be kewl for them for a while, but without the vibrancy of the city, burning the man, and a few art pieces are not going to cut it. Then the worst weather of Burning Man history will come, something that will rival 2001's condition Alpha, and that will be it.

2013 no one but hard core burners will want to come. That is, if we didn't figure out something better to do.

Either way, LLC has a lot of work to do to try to convince us to come back, build the city, make it work, and keep the faith.

To say our faith is shaken I think at this point is an understatement.

Courage.
aoxomoxoa
in dust we trust

Mitch
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Mitch » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:58 am

Paperboy wrote:
Now that Marian confirms that it's about one third, we have to seriously consider alternatives. Most of us in theme camps simply can not go through yet another anxiety laced ordeal. First it was placement. Then it was Early Arrival passes. Now we don't even know if we get in? All so we can build a city.

Whoa, is that THE Paperboy?

Where'd Marian say that?

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:06 am

http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future

there is no direct quote from Marian Goodell about a confirmation about the 1/3 number, it is mentioned by the writer of the story in this paragraph on the above linked story:
She recognizes that it's a big problem for established theme camps and art collectives having tickets for only about a third of their members, a figure that she also confirmed. "It's clear that the theme camps and art projects are a significant part of the community, and this situation is causing problems for them," she said. "That's the part that will hurt us if we don't take another look at this."
Don't link to anything here!

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Paperboy
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Paperboy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:10 am

http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future

and as for being THE, i got the name from delivering the BRC Gazette, when everyone was called a District Representative. To PC for me! Did that for 5 yrs till we got all Disney-fied.

Hey, our city changes year by year, and not always for the best, but this has been a Tsunami.

I know a lot of people think we are whining, but it really is hard to plan when only 3 of your key people got tickets out of an EA base of 23!

[quote="Mitch"][quote="Paperboy"]

Now that Marian confirms that it's about one third, we have to seriously consider alternatives. Most of us in theme camps simply can not go through yet another anxiety laced ordeal. First it was placement. Then it was Early Arrival passes. Now we don't even know if we get in? All so we can build a city.
[/quote]


Whoa, is that THE Paperboy?

Where'd Marian say that?[/quote]
aoxomoxoa
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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Magpie Sparkles » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:54 am

mshaman wrote: Trilobyte,
Respectfully, that isn't a reality my camp had to wrangle with last year. We all ordered tickets the day they went on sale, and had exactly the number we needed. We didn't buy more and hoard them, we didn't get less because of a ticket shortage that wouldn't present itself for another 6 months. If someone didn't decide they were interested and wanted to contribute until July, they were, by definition, non-essential, because we had already done most of the work by then and such people were peripheral at best. The ability to master our destiny by planning and acting was taken from us this year by the implementation of a poorly designed lottery system. I maintain that it will show up in the size and quality of art, mutant vehicles, and theme camps this year.
Agreed.

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Magpie Sparkles » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:00 am

matt_freedman wrote: (2) Europeans in RVs who are attracted by the idea of a giant rave and participate by giving out a few cans of beer to strangers
.
That's a bit unfair.

I'm a european who comes in an RV, and yes I like to dance!

But for the last 3 years I've paid significant amounts of money and contributed significant amounts of time (my camps mates from the UK far more than I, on both counts I might add) to build one of the best bars on the playa.

This is year I'm worried that Burning Man will be little more than a bunch of people cycling round the desert in crazy costumes shouting "where's the art/party at?"

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Re: 2012 Theme Camps - will you make it this year?

Post by Mitch » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:28 am

Paperboy wrote:http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future

and as for being THE, i got the name from delivering the BRC Gazette, when everyone was called a District Representative. To PC for me! Did that for 5 yrs till we got all Disney-fied.

Hey, our city changes year by year, and not always for the best, but this has been a Tsunami.
PC? It was meant to be pronounced "DisRep"

Thanks for the Marian citation...that indicates something on the order of 25,000 tix ended up with newbies, scalpers or a combination of both (assuming Theme Camps are a good proxy for Experienced Burners)

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