OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

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MOH
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OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

Post by MOH » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:30 am

OK, so it's obvious that they blew it. I know 1 person out of a rather large family who got lucky. Yes, we will all figure out a way to get there. Yes, we will all have a blast once we do get there. What bothers me isn't really the money. Burning man is fucking expensive, and the ticket is just the tip of the iceberg. What bothers me is the taking away the ritual of that exciting day in January when all of my friends start getting excited about the best week of the year! I feel for the camps that are now broken and the families who will lose members. I want more people to experience this wonderful thing, but not at the cost of those who have made it their life. I worry about having more dbags running around the place. I worry for the elements of the event that are sacred. At least we'll have more DMT smoke and lasers at temple burn(sarcasm). I'm sure it will all work itself out. Time is the healer. It's just sad that what is normally such a joyous day for so many has turned into so many other emotions. It's never easy to get to the biggest party on the planet, and this new system doesn't help.

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rchapin
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by rchapin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:35 am

You guys should visit the "didn't get tickets" forum. It's not just bitching, there's some valid concerns. And some serious concerns for this year's BM.

The biggest concern is that key people in theme camps didn't receive a ticket, and no one is willing to start prep unless they know for certain they're going. I know our camp Swing City may not be coming back because of this. And this wasn't just a group of people, it was a huge circus rig that we created on our own dime as a gift to BM.

The lottery seemed fair at first, but now I can see what a huge mistake it was. And not just because I didn't get a ticket. We convinced friends to go for the first time. They got a ticket and we didn't. Now they don't know what to do. And I feel like an idiot for telling them how awesome BM is.

I believe there should've at least been some sort of priority given to the folks who contribute to BM - musicians, artists, theme camps, etc. After that, tickets could go on sale like they have in the past. Typically, if you didn't get a ticket to BM, it was because you procrastinated, and you had no one to blame but yourself. Now it's because someone didn't pull your name out of a hat.

Too bad they didn't come up with something revolutionary like asking the BM community if they would consider giving their space to someone new who has never experienced BM. This could've been a much different day.

Fine by me, I'm spending my $390 on a plane ticket to Maui.

Bob
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BBadger
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:04 am

Let this be a lesson that true fairness does not account for the fact that people associate together in groups.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by Raymaker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:58 am

BBadger wrote:Let this be a lesson that true fairness does not account for the fact that people associate together in groups.
How many tickets did you actually get Badger, you said in another thread that you had other people applying for you, did you end up with exactly what you needed or were you very unlucky and end up with extra tickets?

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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:28 am

In the end, my sub-group (of four) got exactly how many we needed because two of us were lucky. The story is different for the larger camp; however, I'm not sure of the exact figures as most people have not responded yet.
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by Mitch » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:07 am

BBadger wrote:What this lottery is really showing is that many people don't want a fair distribution of tickets to people. The 30% or so of theme camp members getting their tickets is right within the average of the fair drawing given the number of registrants.

Do you know for a fact that the number of registrants was ~ 133,333? I haven't seen anything official from the Bmorg.

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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by bluesbob » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:51 am

AntiDoinItWrong wrote:You have two options. Accept your fate ( or Ka for all you Steven King fans ) and stop your bitchen. I have been utterly amazed ( and this is coming from a sociology/psychology/philosophy major with six years of semi Ivy league years under my belt ) at the colossal amount of cow poop that has been coming out of peoples mouths. You cross a road in any city and your chances of getting run over by some bleach blond driving a hot pink hummer while texting on her iPhone is about 20%. Same goes for getting into BM. It has a limited human capacity ( thanks to some egomaniac suit in some government office who likely has a small penis and likes to over compensate ) so that the present LEO's and Yellow Shirts can keep up with the crowd. If you walk up to your favorite bar and see that it's full ( the number of occupants actually being a safety precaution in case of a fire ) and the bouncer says "Sorry pal/lady, I can't let you in,..it's unsafe to over fill the place" ..are you one of those pathetic schmucks that cries like a two year old and gives the bouncer a hard time? ( And, having been a bouncer more than once in my life, I can not tell you how often that is. By the way, I really wanted to knock a few teeth out...just FYI ). So, for the love of all that is Sacred and Damned simultaneously....STOP YOUR FRACKING COMPLAINING AND JUST MAN/WOMEN THE FUCKIN HELL UP! If you are truly deserving, the Gods and Goddesses that give any kind of a shit about this infinitesimal planet in the boon docks of existence will reward those who are worthy. The rest of you need to take a chill pill, and please.....just accept the hand you have been dealt.
Last year at this time, two days after the start of ticket sales 90% of our camp had tickets, and over the course of the next month or so the rest got theirs also. This year two days after the start of the lottery, less than 40% of our camp has tickets, and this seems to be holding true of camp after camp after camp. You are an idiot, a complete stooge. The fucking lottery is a sham, a disaster. That's all there is to it.
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by Honey Bucket » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:14 am

[quote]Do you know for a fact that the number of registrants was ~ 133,333? I haven't seen anything official from the Bmorg.[/quote]

YEA

I'm waiting for an explanation as to where and to whom all the missing tickets were awarded.
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late
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by late » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:26 am

I don't know where but my Ms. says she read 70k tickets were requested in the lottery, if anyone has a real number from a real source that would be interesting.

One thought keeps going through my head about this. Last year there were what, 55k that tried to buy tickets. This year, 10k went to presale, and (?)70k in lottery? Seems to me many people tried dual lottery in hopes of keeping the lower priced tickets, then selling the other pair(s). I know WE meant to do this to help out friends that were short right now but we didn't/forgot. Of course this is conjecture, but does make sense yes? More sense than the numbers going from what had been a 10% increase to a 100% increase!

SO, IF that's true, the market should have a ton of available tickets coming up soonish! Just hope it's sooner than later!

I really hope so.

If NOT, well, there will be a lot of theme camps needing help!

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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:48 am

Hey, that means a lot of virgins will find openings in a lot of theme camps! No?

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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by JayBobBoy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:02 am

I seriously doubt large camps will rely on big groups of virgins to make their plans happen. Most will simply reduce in size and add a small # of newcomers as they always have. Without trusted, reliable help, large projects and big plans are just too much.
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:17 am

Mitch wrote:
BBadger wrote:What this lottery is really showing is that many people don't want a fair distribution of tickets to people. The 30% or so of theme camp members getting their tickets is right within the average of the fair drawing given the number of registrants.

Do you know for a fact that the number of registrants was ~ 133,333? I haven't seen anything official from the Bmorg.
The percentage is just from what many people are reporting from their camp percentages, but that varies among camps. My guess is that there were at least as many registered people as there were needed tickets, but probably even more due to multiple accounts (friends, family). With 1.7 tickets requested per person only 23500 or so people actually won, and at 30% winning that would mean about 80k people registered.
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by HandJamMasterC » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:33 am

It's looking like only 40% of the theme camp members at the camps at 3 & G got tickets.

The problem with the idea of newbies filling in the gap is this - 1/2 of Camp DOA's members didn't get tickets, and they own 1/2 the camp infrastructure. If they don't go, 1/2 of the actual theme camp doesn't go either. So we won't need any newbies, 'cause there is that much less to run............... :twisted:
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by bluesbob » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:23 pm

HandJamMasterC wrote:It's looking like only 40% of the theme camp members at the camps at 3 & G got tickets.

The problem with the idea of newbies filling in the gap is this - 1/2 of Camp DOA's members didn't get tickets, and they own 1/2 the camp infrastructure. If they don't go, 1/2 of the actual theme camp doesn't go either. So we won't need any newbies, 'cause there is that much less to run............... :twisted:
Same thing here. The people without tickets are the ones with our shipping containers holding all our equipment. Our group is NOT geographically centralized, we are scattered all over the U.S. We have a large block in Northern Calif. who store all our gear and do set-up for us. Not one has a ticket so far. These are also the same people who are able, every year, to get the extra time for early arrival. At this point, in order for us to get our crap to the playa...we would need people to get Class A licenses and drive from all over the U.S. to get the semis and containers. Then we would need 10-15 people to get the extra time off to set-up. Once again, at this point, our camp is dead.
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Re: OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

Post by trilobyte » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:55 pm

@rchapin - I've checked the thread a few times, but have not yet had a chance to check either of the two official ticket threads in the last day or so. As a volunteer I try to spend a lot of hours on the boards keeping up with things (as do the other moderators), but there's only so much time in the day. I don't doubt there are some valid issues and concerns in there.

@Mitch - don't expect to get any official numbers of registrants from Burning Man. I've seen a lot of wild speculation both here and on Facebook, but so far everyone appears to just be guessing.

@bluesbob - what would you be saying if it was done via unrestricted open sale, all the tickets sold incredibly quickly, your camp wound up with the same or less success with no more recourse (because the whole thing would be sold through), with scalpers sitting on a significant chunk of the supply?

@late - what your Ms. read was either speculation or guesswork. Don't expect to get any official numbers of registrants from Burning Man. Here's hoping that those with extras get things shaken out with campmates/friends in need, or serve them back up to the community via the ticket exchange later this month. Short of the ideal solution (enough for everybody), the next best thing IMO would be for people to be able to get things sorted as quickly as possible.

@JayBobBoy - a number of large camps have periods of open registration where they accept all dues-paying comers. That doesn't necessarily solve their logistical concerns though, because most of the planning and effort comes out of the 10-20% core members. Fortunately that group tends to be resourceful, hopefully they get things resolved soon.

@HandJamMasterC - I agree, it's not just a matter of replacing bodies for many camps. Good luck to your campmates!

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Re: OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

Post by Mitch » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:22 pm

[quote="trilobyte
@Mitch - don't expect to get any official numbers of registrants from Burning Man. I've seen a lot of wild speculation both here and on Facebook, but so far everyone appears to just be guessing.

quote]


Trilo: people are indeed guessing, but the large theme camps should be pretty good indicators, and my off-the-cuff reading of what they've been reporting (mostly posted after I left Badger that msg) is in the range of 30-40%. Assuming no professional scalpers, if you take 30% of attendees having gotten tickets and 40,000 were awarded, then that's just simple math, there were 133,333 ticket requested. 40% indicates 100,000.

Now, the thing is there aren't really that many Burners likely to have been ordering tickets unless we have a lot of virgins. There were about 55,000 people last year, and it didn't sell out until the summer. Granted, the sell-out will have encouraged some percentage of normal procastinators to bid early, and last year was pretty good so lots of people in the Burner community will have made offers. Still, last year's demand couldn't have been that much over 55k. Even if it was, say 80,000 (meaning 25,000 people who wanted to go didn't get to because of the sell-out), you're looking at 20,000 to 53,000 newbies/non-regulars joining the bidding.

Also, keep in mind that 3,000 burners bought in the presale and some percentage of the 4000 low-cost tickets will go to long-time Burners who never planned to bid for the $240 and up tiers.

So it seems to me, the two ways to think about this are that either a lot of newbies or a lot of scalpers -- possibly a lot of both -- put in bids.

What seems not to have happened is massive overbuying by long-term Burners, if using the theme camps as a proxy is valid . If lots of tix show up on STEP then it means the theme camp evidence is misleading. If very few do, then it means that 20,000+ ended up with scalpers.

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Re: OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

Post by marcgorcey » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:13 pm

http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future

article...

Soooooo many questions...

Sigh...

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Re: OK, so it's obvious that they blew it.

Post by knowmad » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:45 pm

marcgorcey wrote:http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future

article...

Soooooo many questions...

Sigh...
Excerpt from http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future


UPDATE (5 PM): LLC board member Marian Goodell just returned my call and said the organization leaders huddled up today to work on solutions to problems raised by the ticket shortfalls. "We're genuinely really putting our heads together today. We're listening, we really are," she said. "It's very real for us, I get it."

She recognizes that it's a big problem for established theme camps and art collectives having tickets for only about a third of their members, a figure that she also confirmed. "It's clear that the theme camps and art projects are a significant part of the community, and this situation is causing problems for them," she said. "That's the part that will hurt us if we don't take another look at this."
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Re: Official "Awarded Tickets" Thread

Post by The CO » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:31 pm

late wrote:This year, 10k went to presale, and (?)70k in lottery?
???

No, 3000 in the presale, 40,000 in main and 10,000 in march fcfs.
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