New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by haolegolucky » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:45 pm

nncoco wrote:
inthecolumbiagorge wrote:
Dave Matthews at the gorge for Labor day weekend is sounding mighty fine right about now!
Maybe Burning Man is not for you...
Oh thats right...Dubstep is the only acceptable music on the playa. He must have forgotten.
:roll:

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by whorder » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:48 pm

RE: 1 ticket vs 2 for STEP registers:

Simple solution: 1.5 tickets each

Radical inclusion

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by whorder » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:52 pm

update: New policy

1.414 tickets for real radical inclusion

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by whorder » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:05 am

update: New Policy

We have now determined that issuing 1.414 tickets is irrational. Our next choice for including radicals was 1.73205081, but regrettably our team of experts determined it too was irrational.

Thus we have settled on the fourth root of 16 as the maximum number of tickets to issue, which at this moment appears to be both radical and rational. We are awaiting confirmation from our advisers, who promise to reply by Aug 8.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:08 am

1.000098 is all I need
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by MOH » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:09 am

The name game...If they are going to assign names to the remaining 10,000 tickets, all 4000 low income tickets and all STEP tickets, I still don't understand WHY they can't just do it for all tickets? Ditch the greeters, have all lines be will call, and everyone can spend 20 hours getting in!

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by alt12 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:15 am

Eric wrote:
alt12 wrote:"Contact points" is codeword for friends in the LLC: let the insider friends-of-Larry circle-jerk free-for all begin.
I'm not going to get in the way of the bitterness & anger (I was one of the people who didn't enter the Lottery because I was planning on buying in the open sale, while I'm still optimistic by nature I am a bit shaken for the moment), I do want to clarify this point (unofficially- this is not a pass down from the Org): a "Contact point" can be way more than a member of the board or a "friend of Larry": if you've ever had a registered theme camp you've had a Placer (more than likely you've had a few), that would be a Contact Point; if you volunteer for one of the Departments you have a Department Head- again, a Contact Point; for MV's you've worked with DMV Hotties: Contact Points.

Basically it's just someone within the Org you've worked with- that person who sends your emails on the Theme Camp List, or your Volunteer List... someone who knows you. There's a good chance they're a volunteer themselves.

It literally says "We have made the difficult decision to take the 10,000 tickets that were slated to be sold via the Secondary Open Sale and manually redirect them to some of the vital groups and collaborations that make up Black Rock City: volunteers, theme camps, mutant vehicles, art installations and performance groups. These groups already have a relationship and contact points within the organization. We’re in the process of proactively identifying and reaching out to the established groups that fall into each of these categories, and offering organizers access to purchase enough tickets to provide for essential crew members."

Umm Ive been the theme camp contact for my camp for the last 5 years. We have a different placer almost every year. I don't have a personal relationship with them...They could give a shit about me or my camp personally. I am one of however many dozens of theme camps happen to be in their sector that year.

We also have an art-car. Guess what, its a different volunteer each year that we deal with on the art car. These are not personal relationships. There are 700 theme camps, several hundred art cars, etc. Lets not pretend that we have personal relationships with the dozens of rotating volunteers who manage these processes. This is a bureaucracy. It has been for years. There are dozens of volunteers in each of these roles and a handful of staff overseeing them. The volunteers change from year to year as well. Like I said, its a bureaucracy.

However, there is a special group of theme camps and art projects that have long-standing ties with the org. They are the elite. They are the ones, many are SF-based and have personal and/or work relationships with org insiders, that have the "relationship contact points" that are mentioned in the ticketing blog. So clearly they are the ones who are getting the tickets. Am I reading this wrong? Its very clear that the org is saying they are hand picking who gets these tickets and are identifying these "established groups" that "already have a relationship and contact point within the organization." I don't have this. In fact, I'd love to hear any theme camp chime in with how many "relationships and contact points within the organization" they have.... Its going to be the big brand-name camps, big brand-name art-cars, big brand-name art collectives...

And for the record, I am not bitter. I am angry about this process not because of my personal need for a ticket (If I decide to go at this point I always have a way to get a ticket) . I am angry that this is an elitist solution by definition. I am disappointed that the ORG is basically going to be rewarding their buddy buddy camps and pet art projects and that basically 20% of Burning Man is now officially a hand picked elite. This is the OPPOSITE of radical inclusion. It is a members-only approach that is best described as radical elitism. And I'm not the only that feels this way.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Heyu » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:21 am

Just wondering ...if June might see BLM adding a few thousand tickets (This years cap has not been set yet, I doubt if Borg will sell more than last years total until they know)

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by LegendZero » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:30 am

Also of note is before BLM fianlizes the cap it is open for public comment. That means let BLM know Burning Man is an important part of modern american culture and heritage and should be encouraged and allowed to grow naturally.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by lemur » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:31 am

alt12 wrote: Its very clear that the org is saying they are hand picking who gets these tickets and are identifying these "established groups" that "already have a relationship and contact point within the organization."
it was mentioned at the theme camp forum that there may be camps who have been coming forever, who do have a long time relationship with the burn but who, at this point, might be only doing 1 event per day.(if that).it was mentioned/implied that this might not cut it this year, that theyd have to step it up.. and mention that step up of interactivity/stuff in their placement application.

i think this was a hint to those in attendance that 'yeah we love ya guys!! (and you know who you are) but you need to step it up to be considered!!' (at least this is how i took that exchange)


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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:41 am

urvile wrote:For dog's sake people, STEP or scalpers is not going to be the ONLY way to get a ticket. Tickets have changed hands in plenty of ways prior to it, and they will continue to be. It's a bit early for all the doom and gloom I'm seeing.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by trilobyte » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:49 am

Whew, what a night! The theme camp forum was a great meeting with good info (I'll post that elsewhere tomorrow as I get the chance to go through my notes). They gave us the nuts and the bolts of the announcement, but I had to wait til I got home to actually read all the details. Personally, I've got mixed feelings…and probably need either a few more beers or a good night's sleep. To be fair though, there's no decision that could have been made that would make everybody happy (the fundamental problem is still scarcity).

FYI - if you read the blog post earlier in the evening, please consider taking another look. A couple addendums appeared to have been added (they're noted)

Also worth noting - contact point is that person in your camp (or mutant vehicle team) who fills out the questionnaire. That person is your primary point of contact for questions about the camp/vehicle.

@Doc Pyro - it's still in there somewhere, but you've got to dig around Years Past -> 2011 -> Junk Drawer or Behind The Couch :) Point being, hell yeah! STEP is a tool to facilitate exchange, but there will also be people selling tickets to each other directly. What I've seen in years past is that throughout the course of the year, people who got tickets end up deciding not to go for a lot of different reasons.

@Sage Venkman - well said. Short of an announcement that the BLM would double the cap, I don't think there's a way to make everyone happy. Whether individuals or camps take a break, or mutate, or team up with another, or do something else entirely, I think at the individual and the camp/project level, we'll be able to figure our stuff out.

@Sheyanah - you'll also be able to buy tickets in the after-market from other burners. Once ticket fulfillment happens in June, we'll open up the tickets wanted/offered boards here, and there will be ticket opportunities. As Doc Pyro mentioned in his post, people who buy tickets have things in their lives change all the time.

@urville - expect a massive, dusty apocalypse.

@BBadger - I don't think STEP was ever intended to be the only method of resale. I agree, the 1-per limit kind of hobbles the system in a way I don't think will help people solve their ticket woes. Personally I'd rather see a solution that works for fewer people than something that doesn't quite work for a larger number.

@Wraith - great white hope or not, it's still something that's happened in every year since I've been going (2004). Peoples' plans change and they can't go for a number or reasons. No, I don't think it'll be raining tickets, but they'll continue to become available from now until the start of the event.

@alt12 - the last 10 years or so of your participation on the theme camp side is in the placement team's database. I'm not sure how far back DMV goes, but they keep records too. While the placers or DMV people may change, the history is still there. I'll post my notes from the theme camp forum tomorrow, which may explain things a bit more than the blog post.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by pink » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:16 am

How do you distiguish a 'bucket list' newb from a Burner?

I met a bucket list virgin last year. He visited our camp often, and mentioned he was staying at the airport. "you have a plane?" I asked. 'Yes, do you want to go for a ride? I'm taking people up tomorrow morning'.

I still can't believe I, who takes xanax to fly commercially, got into this tiny, hand made plane and soared over the city.

It was quite literally, the high point of my burn. And I don't think he's a bucket list burner anymore. He was as changed by his experience as I've been.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by BBadger » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:58 am

urvile wrote:That is a far cry from trying to make it the exclusive system for transfer, and I have not seen any communication from the org that would suggest they wanted it to be the exclusive system of transfer. When people get their physical tickets, there will be many of them being gifted and sold (hopefully for face). Being able to give a ticket to a friend has been part of the system for ever, and will continue to be. I for one, would not want to put my ticket into a random pool, I would give it to someone I thought needed to go. And it should always be the case that I can do so.
Sorry, I was probably not being clear with what I meant. I mean for transferring as in buying or selling, not giving tickets to people or such. They're also been encouraging the use of STEP in place of other systems (i.e. exclusively) for the purposes stated before.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by BBadger » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:19 am

Colonel Monk wrote:Could not agree more - don't forget they started the ticket selling process this year with elitism - 3000 tickets for $420 each, highest priced tickets yet.

I guess Larry needed some new art for his penthouse?
Wow, $30 qualifies for elitism now? I actually find it more surprising that the presale tickets were not already priced higher than regular tickets because you're getting them early. It's been quite the opposite in the past, costing less than the highest tier price (priced at Tier 2 last year I believe).

Anyway, the pre-sale was a testing bed for the lottery, and if they had priced it the same way as previous years (tier 2), there would've been abnormal demand for it.
Colonel Monk wrote:I'm for any solution that fairly treats veteran burners in this scarcity situation.
I'll quote that Ford truck commercial: "since when did just showing up qualify you as a winner?"

What makes a veteran any more worthy than a burgin? The fact that they went there before is hardly a qualification. It better not carry much weight in the ticket distribution--that would be unfairly treating (favoring) veteran burners.

I'm less interested in helping "veterans" (whatever that means) and more interested in keeping cohesion in camps. They could be vets or burgins; it shouldn't matter.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by JRoyale » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:04 am

alt12 wrote:
Eric wrote:
alt12 wrote:" Am I reading this wrong?
No
This is the OPPOSITE of radical inclusion. It is a members-only approach that is best described as radical elitism. And I'm not the only that feels this way.
Well, on the flip side, these people have donated hundreds or thousands of hours to the Org as volunteers, or have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and again hundreds or thousands of hours bringing art and theme camps and mutant vehicles to the playa. And I'm not saying you haven't done this either. Only these people are very important to putting on the event. They are the ones that made the event what it is. It's not such much a reward but an attempt to salvage what can be salvaged. I'm mean do you really want an event with 50,000 newbies and 3,000 people that know what in the hell is going on?

Take for example the DMV. We can't simply couldn't function with out a sufficient number of returning volunteers. And what's the point of having the DMV if all we have to too inspect is lame half mutated golf carts?

Again, no one is happy about what happened.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by tamarakay » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:16 am

The pre-sale tickets were higher this year to help fund the low income tickets. Pretty sure it was also used as a test bed for the lottery. In no way was it set up as an elitist event. I am in no way connected to or one of the "elite" of burning man (if any such thing exists). I worked hard last year, signed up for extra on call hours, and I saved so we could afford tickets at whatever price they sold them for in the early sale. We made that decision even before the lottery was announced. So, yes, screw you. Elitism my ass and fuck your day.

To those of you saying that bmORG is going away with the forming of a new non-profit etc etc. As far as i've seen it's still the same people. I work for a place that reorganizes on a regular basis. It doesn't matter what you call it, or how you juggle the people around, if you have the same people in charge making decisions, you have the same organization. Having said that, I don't believe anyone at bmORG is evil. They had a party on a beach and then followed their passion and have grown this labor of love and have learned (hopefully) some lessons along the way. I hope the biggest lesson they learned this year is that some strategic management help is needed.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by AntiM » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:40 am

tamarakay wrote:The pre-sale tickets were higher this year to help fund the low income tickets. Pretty sure it was also used as a test bed for the lottery. In no way was it set up as an elitist event. I am in no way connected to or one of the "elite" of burning man (if any such thing exists). I worked hard last year, signed up for extra on call hours, and I saved so we could afford tickets at whatever price they sold them for in the early sale. We made that decision even before the lottery was announced. So, yes, screw you. Elitism my ass and fuck your day.

To those of you saying that bmORG is going away with the forming of a new non-profit etc etc. As far as i've seen it's still the same people. I work for a place that reorganizes on a regular basis. It doesn't matter what you call it, or how you juggle the people around, if you have the same people in charge making decisions, you have the same organization. Having said that, I don't believe anyone at bmORG is evil. They had a party on a beach and then followed their passion and have grown this labor of love and have learned (hopefully) some lessons along the way. I hope the biggest lesson they learned this year is that some strategic management help is needed.
Ditto

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Wrath » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:43 am

Why play favorites?

If the major camps aren't able to go, wouldn't they just do something somewhere else? Wouldn't that alleviate the population issue? Couldn't that spread Burning Man's culture that much faster?

It outgrew BLM. Even if a permit is granted with unlimited capacity I suspect the city would (hopefully) someday outgrow the playa. Will we then have a repeat performance of this emotional fiasco?

I can think of a few camps that have such a following they could easily build their own cities.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by piehole » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:11 am

After my initial reaction to the decision made by bmorg, I can honestly say this only makes me want to be there even more--with or without my close friends whom I originally planned on going with.

Ever since after one of my best friends, the one who initially introduced me to this community, came back and told me his story from 2010, I told myself that 2012 WILL be my virgin year at the Burn.

And booyah, I get selected in this random drawing lottery thing. Was it luck? Maybe.

I don't care anymore, this is my year.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Raymaker » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:31 am

Maybe this will be the year everyone says "The WORST Year Ever"

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by zorro sings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:42 am

For our camp it is a defining monent.Finally after 11 years of operating a small camp we will be officailly,and in the starkest terms possible,be informed if our contributions have been deemed worthy of inclusion into the "social fabric" of BRC.Can't wait to find out.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by AntiM » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:44 am

I finally found core people and a concept for a small theme camp next year. I have some serious doubts if it will happen now, and am looking hard at alternatives.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Killbuck » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:28 am

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by remi » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:29 am

I just don't see why they couldn't allocate 5000 to the open sale, and the remaining 6-7000 to the theme camps and artist? I think this would have been better for PR. I know they mentioned the final 10,000 being given out at there own discretion.. but what about the tickets that get pulled between now and then, and all the tickets from the CC's that got denied in the lotto.. are those tickets also all going to the 'chosen'?
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by axel » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:40 am

I still don't know how I feel about going this year and probably won't until I find out what's going on with my camp - hopefully that will be soon. There's a big double-decker art bus, open bar, and events usually at our camp - definitely a huge undertaking and we need to find a way to get the virgins hooked up with camps and projects in advance. bMORG has to make some tough decisions, this is better than inaction and at least a resolution attempt is underway. Perhaps there is already a thread for Virgins Seeking Camps and Camps Seeking Virgins? If there is please PM me, I wanna try to see if we can get some more collaboration going by re-directing folks from FB to eplaya or see how JRS can promote virgin/camp mutual benefits for inclusion and collaboration. It's time to start re-focusing with or without a ticket...

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by omidia » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:49 am

I appreciate the difficulty here. And these are my thoughts.

One ticket through step that's not transferable?!?

I signed up with one card, not 5, I signed up for two tickets. One for me and one for my lover.

I can't go and buy one non transferable ticket without knowing if she can get one some other way.

We need two tickets or none.

The rest of the changes are a pain, and I appreciate the difficult decisions that went into them. But this is unacceptable. If I'd signed up with multiple cards I would have been fine. I chose not to, and I stand by that decision. Just like the decision to sell my tickets year at face value when we could not go at the last minute.

What would work for me is if I could buy 2 non-transferable tickets with names on them, or 1 transferable ticket so if she's unable to get one, I can pass it on. But 1 non-transferable ticket. That simply means I can't try.

And this is unacceptable.

What do I do in my situation? Help, please!

That's how I feel.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by omidia » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:05 am

urvile wrote:For dog's sake people, STEP or scalpers is not going to be the ONLY way to get a ticket. Tickets have changed hands in plenty of ways prior to it, and they will continue to be. It's a bit early for all the doom and gloom I'm seeing.
Yes, AND, I need to decide, very soon, if I'm going to go and buy one non-transferable ticket through STEP. And then if I can't get one for my lover, what do I do with that ticket?

Make the freaking STEP tickets reassignable/resellable/transferable through STEP.

I realize this is a difficult situation. However since I refuse to buy off a scalper (on principle), buying one non transferable ticket is just unacceptable. I can't do it. Make it transferable in some way. Or let me buy 2 non-transferable tickets. That's the ONLY way I'll be able to try.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:08 am

Colonel Monk wrote: The purpose of the open sale was kind of intended to be a safety net all along.
Respectfully, I don't think so, because the open sale started in 2009 or 2010 before there was any perceived risk of the event selling out.

It's certainly mutated from that.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by alt12 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:10 am

axel wrote:I still don't know how I feel about going this year and probably won't until I find out what's going on with my camp - hopefully that will be soon. There's a big double-decker art bus, open bar, and events usually at our camp - definitely a huge undertaking and we need to find a way to get the virgins hooked up with camps and projects in advance. bMORG has to make some tough decisions, this is better than inaction and at least a resolution attempt is underway. Perhaps there is already a thread for Virgins Seeking Camps and Camps Seeking Virgins? If there is please PM me, I wanna try to see if we can get some more collaboration going by re-directing folks from FB to eplaya or see how JRS can promote virgin/camp mutual benefits for inclusion and collaboration. It's time to start re-focusing with or without a ticket...
There is a thread under the Theme Camp forums on playa for just this. I don't think you'll have trouble finding virgins. Even on a normal year theme camps are inundated with requests from random virgins who are looking to join a theme camp....

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