Knots for steel and tarp shelter...

[Soliton]

Hi all you beautiful experienced people out there!

Can you please provide some advice on knots? I am planning on bringing a 20' X 20' X 8' high 1" EMT frame and tarp structure to BM (with angled tarps on all sides, so total footprint is ~40' X 40'), and am using 3/8" braided polyester rope for tie-downs on the angled sides and at each upright to secure the fittings and not rely on the clamping bolts on the EMT fittings. I am teaching myself the Midshipman's Hitch and the Buntline Hitch (http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/midshipmans-hitch) to secure everything.

I'm finding that the midshipman's hitch (similar to a tautline hitch) is a little slippery on the rope that I have, and will try an extra half hitch and/or extra first loop to see if that helps when I do a dry run (hopefully this weekend).

My question: Are there any other knots that I should learn and practice prior to BM? Are the two knots I mentioned above adequate with the rope I have chosen? Any other advice?

I know some people use ratcheting straps, but I've already got 600' of rope and would like to use it if possible. I'm pre-cutting it to length at home (to avoid moop and speed assembly on-playa), and am bringing several hundred feet of paracord as a 'just in case'. The tie-downs are going to either 3/8" x 14" or 1/2" x 18" lag bolts with washers and a pair of chain links depending on whether used for tarp grommets or main tie-down ropes (12 - 15 each of the 1/2" X 18" depending on how I handle the corners).

Thanks for any advice (and even for the snarky comments!)

Soliton

[Roundabout]

Use that midshipman's hitch (I prefer the tautline hitch), only when you need to secure a guy line that you will need to adjust, like on a tent (which is always moving itself around). When securing an EMT structure, however, I prefer to use a non-adjustable cinch like a simple trucker's knot. Another basic knot you should know is a bowland, which creates a secure loop that is relatively easy to untie after use.

[Soliton]

Thanks Roundabout!

Exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I'll practice these four (midshipman's, buntline and bowline hitches and the trucker's knot) until I'm confident I can do them on-playa, where the internet may not provide a way out if I forget.

Soliton

[mooserider]

What's a trucker's knot? I haven't heard of that one before (although it probably matches something in my father's old merchant seaman's manual with a different name). Does anyone have a picture of it?

[FIGJAM]

[MikeGyver]

Truckers knot/hitch is my default knot as Its fairly versatile and fairly easily removable.

[KnotJim]

I second the use of the trucker's hitch it's outstanding method to secure just about anything. One tip is to use a steel ring or a carabiner at the ground anchor point to avoid tearing up your rope.

[Flint]

If you can't tie a knot...tie a lot!

[Bemerritt]

I am doing the exact same shade/rope method. How long are you per-cutting your rope sections? I was thinking 20ft would be a safe length to do the trucker's hitch. Giving it a test run on thursday.

[KnotJim]

I am doing the exact same shade/rope method. How long are you per-cutting your rope sections? I was thinking 20ft would be a safe length to do the trucker's hitch. Giving it a test run on thursday.

I would advise not pre-cutting your rope before putting up your structure for testing. Set up your structure and measure your guy out points ( ideally at a 45 deg angle from vertical). Bring your rope a sharp knife and a good lighter and cut your lashings as you go taking into account of the length of rope needed for the securing knot at the top the trucker's hitch itself and enough tail left to tie off the knot. That way they'll be the right length, not to short and not too long.
When finished coil them up and label them and put them in your shade structure bin so they wont get used for something else.

[desiredlogin]

Seconding what has been said above, I rely on trucker's hitch (http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/truckers-hitch/) for pretty much every rope that needs tightening or adjustment. It's so simple, tie a loop a bit before the end of your rope, pull the end of the rope through your anchoring point and back through the loop, pull tight and secure the end. I use an alpine butterfly (http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/) for the loop in the trucker's hitch, and for any loop, really, it's secure, unties easily and can be tied in the middle of a rope (i.e. you don't need a free end to tie it).

[Soliton]

I am doing the exact same shade/rope method. How long are you per-cutting your rope sections? I was thinking 20ft would be a safe length to do the trucker's hitch. Giving it a test run on thursday.

I did a test setup to check. There are three rope lengths I'm using:

1) Rope that ties into lag bolt/chain link at the bottom of each upright, goes over (and around) the conduit connection fitting, and then back down to a second lag bolt/chain link at each upright. These use 21' rope sections for 8' long uprights. Yes, I know I could just tie at top and bottom, but having both knots at the bottom is convenient, and a second lag bolt in the base flange prevents any possible movement/rotation (beginner overkill )
2) At the edges of the structure I have 10' X 12' tarps going down towards the playa surface at about a 45 degree angle, attached on either side to ropes at the same angle (my center section tarps are 10' X 10'). These ropes are 18' long, and tie at top and bottom.
3) I have 3 each 12' X 12' tarps that I am planning on using for two or three of the corners to help reduce wind from blowing through the structure (they will be folded in half to form triangles. These ropes are 24' long, but I did not test them during my test setup. However, I am confident that 24' is plenty long enough if needed.

Trucker hitch knots were used at all base tie-downs (only one end on the uprights, the other was a smaller type of knot). Not a great deal of extra rope at these lengths, and you could add a foot or two if desired. All ropes were cut, ends melted, and then each end wrapped with colored tape that was different for the different lengths.

I'm bringing extra rope and paracord in case... well in case. (and extra cut ropes. lag bolts, chain, etc...) You never know when a neighbor needs help

Soliton

[Soliton]

Oh, and one other thing...

I'm using polyester rope (soft, fine white braid). Taping each side of where a cut is going to be helped prevent unraveling prior to melting the end with a lighter, and then rolled each end (while still very hot) on a flat surface to keep the diameter from getting too large to go through a chain link. Trying to use a lighter outdoors or in wind sounds unworkable (a torch would be a better option), and the rope can easily grow bigger than the rope diameter and may not fit through a chain link if you don't somehow roll or compress the melted end or if your chain is small. If you can, I would advise cutting to length before the trip, as it did take me a while (I'm bringing 25 pieces that were cut to length).

Soliton

[FIGJAM]

When I cut rope, I mask tape where the cut will be, and cut with a hacksaw.

Then leave the tape on while I melt the ends.

Perfect ends!!!

[Bemerritt]

did my dry run last night. couple questions/comments

1. In what order does everyone put theirs up? Mty wife and I assembled the whole top, tarps and all and then put the legs in, starting at one side. Is this the best method? Obviously this would require very little, if any, wind present.
2. Right now our structure is 8 ft tall, just tall enough to where I cant do bungees on the roof without standing on something. It needs to be tall enough for me to drive the van with roof racks under it. I can probably take 6" off, which would leave me with about a foot from the top of the van to the shade roof. Should I do this to aid in setup and tear down?
3. The ground was soft and I didn't have enough room to put all the guy lines in. I put two to attach one of our side tarps. It looks droopy in the picture (because it is). I take it once you start tightening all the guylines down you can get them all tight and it should help fix this?

Overall it went great and thanks for all the tips. 20' lines seem to be pretty perfect for lines angled at 45 degrees. used a truckers hitch for the first time and love it. suprised how easy it was to adjust them by undoing the double hitch knot while not relieving the tension in the line.



all packed up into 3 little boxes

[skippy3k]

Last year mine was a little over 9' high, because we needed to be able to open the RV door. This year we are yurting it, so I'm planning on dropping it down to 8'. I think that's a pretty common height. I don't know if it's worth making it a height where you can reach it without standing on something. I would think you would get worn out stretching up to reach it all the time. I would just bite the bullet and bring a small step ladder. I find it's helpful anyway, plus it can double as a chair for someone with a tiny butt.

[inventory]

1. There is never "very little wind present" on the playa. We do frame first, then guylines, and only then roof & wall tarps. If you have a lot of frame I like to get about 2 squares of it up and then add the rest 2 squares at a time.
2. Up to you. Is it easier to use the next two weeks to cut down all the poles by the same length, or buy a stepstool and practice holding your arms over your head?
3. Make sure both lines are anchored at the same angle (same distance from the pole) and are square to the hut. Getting them too close together will cause tarp drooping regardless of how tight they are.

[Weebdog]

Check out the Blake's Hitch. It's a locking slip knot that works much like a Prusik's knot.
http://www.animatedknots.com/blakes/