Surviving police encounters

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:52 pm

What I find most distressing is people freely giving up their rights with such drivel as
"Anything that stops crime is fine by me"
"They can tap my phone I am not doing anything wrong"
"I do not find it invasive"
'Anything that helps the police is fine by me"
"If your not committing a crime why do you care?"

I distress because our country was founded on a Constitution and the first part is called the Bill of Rights and was included to protect the liberties of Man.
This kind of meek thought processes just leads us done a slippery slope and in my opinion is simply un-American and I have no respect for such ignorant person's
Our founding fathers warned us of these day's that are now upon us and will we meekly accept the loss of our rights? "Without liberty, law loses its nature and its name, and becomes oppression"

No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.- Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.- Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.- Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, February 12, 1779

Is the relinquishment of the trial by jury and the liberty of the press necessary for your liberty? Will the abandonment of your most sacred rights tend to the security of your liberty? Liberty, the greatest of all earthly blessings — give us that precious jewel, and you may take every things else! Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel.- Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Convention, June 5, 1788

It is necessary for every American, with becoming energy to endeavor to stop the dissemination of principles evidently destructive of the cause for which they have bled. It must be the combined virtue of the rulers and of the people to do this, and to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.- Mercy Warren, History of the Rise, Progress, and Termination of the American Revolution, 1805

Law and liberty cannot rationally become the objects of our love, unless they first become the objects of our knowledge.- James Wilson, Of the Study of the Law in the United States, Circa 1790

Without liberty, law loses its nature and its name, and becomes oppression. Without law, liberty also loses its nature and its name, and becomes licentiousness. -James Wilson, Of the Study of the Law in the United States, Circa 1790

f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.-Candidus, in the Boston Gazette, January 20, 1772

Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it. - Federal Farmer, Antifederalist Letter, No.18, January 25, 1778

The Bill of Rights:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 pm

Back to the origional subject.. what about cases where the officer is not attempting to do a search, but is simply being a dick? The only run-in I've had with a Nevada officer was long before Burning Man and it was just a random weekend road trip. I tossed a bunch of clothes and a blanket into my crappy car and drove. I was speeding on a state highway and got pulled over. The officer started asking all sorts of personal questions - where I lived, what I did for a living, what I was doing in the area, who was paying my bills, etc. I tried answering the questions but never got more than a few words in on each before being interrupted. He then went on this long tirade about how I was a slacker living in my car, mooching off my parents, etc. I didn't bother to try and dispute any of it because it was obvious by then that he wasn't interested in anything I had to say.

Luckily, he eventually talked himself out, gave me a ticket, and left. I can easily see how it could have gotten bad if he didn't like something I said, though. He was fuming mad at *something* and taking it out on me.

What would you do in a situation like this? Cower and take the abuse? Try to defend yourself? Attempt to engratiate yourself with him? Write down his badge number and file a complaint later?

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:00 pm

Rockdad, what liberty am I surrendering if I give up my DNA so that if there is a crime, the person who committed it can be readily and quickly identified and brought to justice? Do you have a drivers license? If so, dont you feel like you're giving up too much privacy since the DMV now has your photo on file?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:09 pm

Dork wrote:Back to the origional subject.. what about cases where the officer is not attempting to do a search, but is simply being a dick?...
... Luckily, he eventually talked himself out, gave me a ticket, and left. I can easily see how it could have gotten bad if he didn't like something I said, though. He was fuming mad at *something* and taking it out on me.

What would you do in a situation like this? Cower and take the abuse? Try to defend yourself? Attempt to engratiate yourself with him? Write down his badge number and file a complaint later?

None of the above. I'd ask to speak to his supervisor. That will usually get the cop down to writing his ticket - after all, the last thing someone wants is his boss climbing down his frame, or something shitty going on his record. Keep this in mind - the cop don't know you from Adam. You may be some dumb slimeball kid. You might also be the Governor's cousin. If you behave cool, professional, and mature, the cop will usually react in kind.

Then again, if your car smells like freshly burned spliff, or contraband is plainly visible, or the cop thinks (by your behavior) you're up to something or looking guilty (the cop term is Hinky), or something just doen't look right you're had, as that's all "probable cause". But if you look like John Q Citizen and are traveling to visit aunt Minnie in Tonopah or whatever, You'll prolly get a pass.

Rule #1 - NEVER give a cop attitude. Remember, he's got a shithole job just like you do, and he'd rather be home watching the game and sucking down a cold one than out there giving you shit (with all it's corresponding paperwork) to earn his pay. Respect him (at least a little) and he'll prolly respect you. At least a little.

Rule #2 - Don't lie. You can evade, you can choose not to answer, but DON'T LIE. Cops will hate you for lying to them if they catch you. You might get away with it (10%) or you might really piss him off and end up in Winnemucca for the weekend (90%). The question is - how badly you want to bet your freedom on a 1 in 10 shot? Which leads to rule #3...

Rule #3 - KEEP YOUR YAP SHUT!!! DON'T agree to a search. Don't strike up idle conversation with a fishercop. Don't try to be his buddy (to a cop there are 3 people who act like cop's buddies - other cops, guilty people, and scumbags.). Be cool, be quiet, be polite, and get to go the hell home.

(If ya wanted to know, this was gleaned from being married to a Sheriff for a decade or so...)

Hugz...
bb

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:11 pm

i hope you two can keep it civil at least.

law enforcement is another historical topic area of high tension and conflict, you might want to search past topics because i dont think you are going to see any new points or arguments around it.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:26 pm

Dork wrote:What would you do in a situation like this? Cower and take the abuse? Try to defend yourself? Attempt to engratiate yourself with him? Write down his badge number and file a complaint later?

Keep your mouth shut and be as civilized as possible. Make note of everything that happens. And then when it's over with go file a complaint. Complaints work. I've filed more than my fair share...14 so far. I've only had 3 come back not in my favor. But I don't complain for penny annie stuff either, it's either gotta be blatantly wrong / illegal or they made more than 3 other fuckups. That's my personal rule on filing complaints.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:36 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:None of the above. I'd ask to speak to his supervisor.

I'm having trouble imagining how that would work. Just interrupt the rant and say "Excuse me, may I please talk to your supervisor" ? Then tell the supervisor over the radio that I'm being verbally abused?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:44 pm

Dork wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:None of the above. I'd ask to speak to his supervisor.
I'm having trouble imagining how that would work. Just interrupt the rant and say "Excuse me, may I please talk to your supervisor" ? Then tell the supervisor over the radio that I'm being verbally abused?

I've done precisely that. I want to talk to your field supervisor is where it starts. And if their assholitis flares up and they say no....I let them know I'm intending to file a complaint one way or the other. And if they smart off after that I make sure that gets noted too....the little smartaleck flipoff comment is one of the things that got a KCPD officer ripped a new ass on one of my complaints. How do I know? My dad worked for KCPD at the time and he heard all about it. Again...complaints work. Just make sure you go in armed to the teeth with good information...bogus complaints can come back to bite you in the ass....see BBS's Rule #2.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:10 pm

spectabillis wrote:i hope you two can keep it civil at least.

law enforcement is another historical topic area of high tension and conflict, you might want to search past topics because i dont think you are going to see any new points or arguments around it.

I'm a little worried about Rockdad and Kinetic, too. Keep it civil guys. Thanks from all of us.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:47 pm

Unfortunately the area of traffic stops is something I've got a fair share of experience with so my posts on the subject will come across as highly biased...and with no apologies. Sheesh, I'm one of those guys running active laser radar jamming so when I say biased....anyway I will keep it civilized in here. Thanks for expressing your concerns.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:48 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Unfortunately the area of traffic stops is something I've got a fair share of experience with so my posts on the subject will come across as highly biased...and with no apologies. Sheesh, I'm one of those guys running active laser radar jamming so when I say biased....anyway I will keep it civilized in here. Thanks for expressing your concerns.

Mods, we have a biased opinion here. Please edit accordingly. :P

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:59 pm

Chai Guy wrote: Trust me, the LEO at this event has been doing this thing longer than you have, they have better costumes, and better art cars than you.

Did you know that gifting someone drugs is illegal?
Did you know that trading one kind of drug for another is illegal?
Did you know that telling someone where to procure drugs is illegal?
Did you know that smoking pot is illegal?

I promise you, that sometime during the week someone will ask you where they can buy drugs, or if you have drugs for them. I've been collecting some responses and I'll share them with you now (please note, some of these I've gleaned from friends):

Ok Mr. Chai,
First things first are you saying that LE really has the best art cars on the Playa? And costumes? Show me a cite! Damn I am not even trying to come up with a costume if I am going to be bested by the local LEO

Is DMV in collusion with the LEO's are they inspected and approved as Art cars? Why would BMORG be in collusion with LE in this way (this needs to go to rumor thread?)

Now just in case you did not know

Did you know that gifting someone in the ass is illegal?
Did you know that trading one kind of WMD for another is illegal?
Did you know that telling someone where to procure Anthrax is illegal?
Did you know that arson is illegal?

But really what was the point of this little exercise? To make the undercover Eplayan's happy? or was Nancy Reagan your mother?

Since we are all adults why the parenting?
Or is this some sort of Eplaya positive image propaganda?

And no one has ever asked me where they can buy drugs on the Playa or if I have drugs for them come on you promised me it would happen

It just seems to be some little pre-recorded and BMORG/Eplaya approved speech that was not very well thought out.
Just the “Party” line

Besides that Chai you rock!

Edit 1. Changed subject title from LE really has the best art cars on the Playa?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:59 pm

Rockdad wrote:It just seems to be some little pre-recorded and BMORG/Eplaya approved speech that was not very well thought out.
Just the “Party” line

no.

hell no.

in fact, motherfucking hell no.

chai (and myself) have run against the grain of the org too many times to ever be accused of that. you have not been around very long if you dont know about freechai and savebrc - those are actions and words from someone who keeps the community at heart without sacrificing ideals in the name of the llc.

and that is exactly the person to have on board as a moderator.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:15 pm

spectabillis wrote:
Rockdad wrote:It just seems to be some little pre-recorded and BMORG/Eplaya approved speech that was not very well thought out.
Just the “Party” line
no.

hell no.

in fact, motherfucking hell no.

chai (and myself) have run against the grain of the org too many times to ever be accused of that. you have not been around very long if you dont know about freechai and savebrc - those are actions and words from someone who keeps the community at heart without sacrificing ideals in the name of the llc.

and that is exactly the person to have on board as a moderator.

Oh do not get me wrong and do not kill the messenger, damn cannot take any criticism? I think you guy's are ok and fair moderators I did not realize how thinned skinned though. Do Ya think my post may have been a little tongue in cheek?
Answer the questions would be nice though. And really did he need to point out drugs are illegal? So is ass fucking? Shooting people in the head with pellet guns! And running around naked for that matter! And minors drinking and god knows what else! so what was the point of his little anti-drug speech? Since you are speaking for him..

But your explosive response is a little disconcerting for a moderator maybe you should of PM’ed me and discussed this? considering I was just voicing a opinion? I made no claim of fact!

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:18 pm

i realized that even from your last line and it was actually delivered in the same spirit, but guess it came off preachy... sorry for that. i didnt think you were on the attack, we have pretty callous skin.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:32 pm

I think you guy's are ok and fair moderators

Thanks for the overwhelming praise. I'm beside myself.

And really did he need to point out drugs are illegal?

Unfortunately, yes I do. People seem to think that because you can get naked and play with fire at Burning Man, that all other laws have been suspended as well. The fact is, at one time the cops couldn't care less about you smoking a little pot on the playa (anyone remember "Bongs across the Man"?). Problem was that people had to go home and write about it in magazine articles and such and basically put it in the cop’s faces. Now, the BLM knows that Burning Man is their golden goose, the biggest cash infusion the agency has outside of sucking on the government teat, so they bust a few people every year to make it look good.

Stick around, next year, like every year, people will be starting threads about how they got busted and how they thought BM was all about "freedom" and then I'll come on and say, "Drugs are illegal", and then someone like you will say "Was that really necessary?" and I'll say yes. Here read them for yourself:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

First things first are you saying that LE really has the best art cars on the Playa? And costumes? Show me a cite!

Oh, ok...

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:24 am Post subject:
______________________________
Quote:
This may be an urban legend in the making, but we heard that the BLM was actually running two art cars this year. "Sure, buddy, hop aboard for a ride! Can I give you a light? [And some handcuffs.]"

not an urban legend.

Someone I know was busted in a case of clear entrapment.

Art car rolls up.

friend 'nice art car'

drivers response 'want a ride?'

friend 'sure'

driver 'got a bud?'

friend 'yeah'

driver 'your under arrest'

friend with friend 'hey, you can't do that'

they then went on to search 2nd friend and bust him as well.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 31&start=0

AND.....

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: my friend was busted by undercovers in a golf cart

________________________________________
fellow burners take notice...on wednesday afternoon my friend was walking to back to camp from the esplanade, it was hot and he was on foot and asked a fully decorated golf cart driven by 2 decked out burner girls for a ride. They replied "what do you have to trade?" He offered a up a little illicit offering and got a ride with them to the corner inersection near camp and was dropped off and thought nothing of it until the ATV's with uniformed officers rolled up on him a few minutes later. We observed all this from camp but didn't find out the rest of the story until after Burning Man. They proceeded to cuff him and then more cops showed up and soon they had his trailer open across the street and a drug sniffing dog in there. They took him away to Lovelock and he was bailed out but kicked out of Burning Man. His truck and trailer was impounded and he still hasn't gotten them back. He has multiple felony counts now based on what they found in his trailer. So watch out, he heard while he was waiting to be processed that there were 100 undercovers working the event. These are people posing as fellow burners that look completley legit...in these days at BRC you cannot trust randoms. Be careful people and even paranoid if you are doing anything illegal. The cops are getting more and more devious and relying more on going undercover to bust you and your neighbors, so watch out!
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... c&start=60

AND....

Well, I am one of those who received a citation this year, and mine is for distribution. I have never in my life dealt drugs, though I've been an occasional user, so I'm pretty upset about the distribution charge. I have also never had a serious run-in with the cops and am a rather trusting person, so I guess I wasn't prepared for what happened to me.

This took place on the day of the burn at around 5:15 PM, right on the esplanade in front of the Gooferville camp near 9:30. I had been enjoying the music of the DJ there and was putting my water bottle into my backpack, which was in a basket on my bike, when I was approached by a young woman who smiled at me and asked if I had any "extra pot", because she and her girlfriend needed some for that night. I said that I didn't really have any extra pot, just enough for my little one-hitter. She asked if I had any back at my camp, and I said that my camp was a good distance away and that I had very little there since I wasn't that heavy a smoker. I suggested she keep asking around and that surely someone better supplied would be able to help her out. She said that she would do that but asked if I would like a hit of acid in exchange for what little I had on me. I said OK, why not. She pulled out a plastic baggie containing what looked like 3 blotter hits and a packet of rolling papers. She tore off a hit, wrapped it in a sheet of the rolling paper, and handed it to me. I put it in a pocket of my backpack, gave her the pinch of pot that I had, and we parted company.

I continued my way along the esplanade and after about 30 seconds I was swarmed by 3 or 4 LEO's. One handcuffed my hands behind my back and the others grabbed my bike and backpack, but didn't open it up. One of them, who identified himself as BLM Ranger Hall, said I was being detained under suspicion of drug-related activity and asked me for my identification. I told him I didn't have it on me. He told me that if I could not show ID that I WOULD be taken to jail. I said that my ID was in my wallet which was locked in my car, and the keys to my car were in my tent. He said he would take me to my tent to get my keys..........

And no one has ever asked me where they can buy drugs on the Playa or if I have drugs for them

Try wearing more Orange Fun Fur?

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:47 pm

Is DMV in collusion with the LEO's are they inspected and approved as Art cars? Why would BMORG be in collusion with LE in this way (this needs to go to rumor thread?)

I don't honestly know, and besides it's irrelevant. The bottom line is that BLM and local cops call the shots at the event, end of story. If you don't believe me do some research on the JiffyLube sign a few years back, or The "Orgasmatron" in 2004, when LEO says "Jump", bmorg asks "how high" and really that's the only way it can be done, it's not a criticism of Bmorg by any means.

But really what was the point of this little exercise? To make the undercover Eplayan's happy? or was Nancy Reagan your mother?

The point of this little exercise is to try to spare someone the pain of getting a $250 ticket, going to jail, or having a criminal record. It's easy to get caught up in "playa magic" and LEO has tapped into our little gift economy by soliciting narcotics from people through gift or trade. I'm just presenting the situation as it is, do with it what you will. I'm sure that posting this info does not make Bmorg or undercover LEO very happy. (not that I need to do anything else to get on Bmorgs shit list, believe me, I'm easily in the top 40 by now).

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:13 am

Why do people forget that carrying ID in Nevada is the law? That's right - they're not from Nevada. >grins< (Also - you're not in California, Canada, or Amsterdam. You're in Redneck Conserative Nevada, where the law can be as harsh as the environment. Keep this in mind!)

And why do people who, during the other 51 weeks, know better to allow themselves to be stupidly entrapped? YES, the cops are there (and you KNOW there are cops out there). YES, the cops drive art cars and look like hippy playboy bunny chicks or cool burnout dudes. JUST LIKE AT HOME!!! (Yeesh!!) Remember - you're on PUBLIC LAND. No shit the "man" is there... what, you thought it was someone's house??? >chuckle<

Rule to live by - If you plan on using out there (no judgment either way), bring your own stash for your own use. If you do not know the person asking (or offering) you for a whatever, remember the 4 words that can save your life (or at least a trip to the Lovelock Grey Bar Inn) - "Sorry, I Don't Use." Sure, it may be a lie, but think of it as a gift exchange - Your lie for their lie. Otherwise you get a different gift exchange - your stash and freedom, for a weekend retreat in Lovelock at the aforementioned Inn...

And always remember - is it worth gving up my freedom and rights to get this chick high, just so she'll probably reject me anyway? >giggles<

Spread the love...
bb

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:41 am

Bottom line:

Don't dance less you are willing to pay the fiddler.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:49 am

Show your papers!

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Why do people forget that carrying ID in Nevada is the law? That's right - they're not from Nevada. >grins< (Also - you're not in California, Canada, or Amsterdam. You're in Redneck Conserative Nevada, where the law can be as harsh as the environment. Keep this in mind!)

Actually BBSue every thing I can find says you only have to provide ID if your suspected of a crime. The Supreme Court still believes in privacy of the individual in fact this law was challenged and very narrowly held up.
And the way I read it all they had to do was go get his license He was arrested for the other problems.
In fact reading some of the online interpretations of the law just verbally identifying yourself should suffice in complying with the law

So you can still run around naked without your ID!

Nevada Revised Statute § 171.123(3),
Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.
1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.
2. Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of his parole or probation.
3. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.
4. A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.

More related crap:
Nevada Revised Statute § 171.123 allows "any peace
officer [to] detain any person whom the officer encounters
under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the per-
son has committed, is committing or is about to commit a
crime." Nev. Rev. Stat. § 171.123(1). The Nevada Supreme
Court has interpreted § 171.123 to authorize detentions based
on reasonable suspicion, the same level of suspicion required
for a Terry stop. See State v. Sonnenfeld, 958 P.2d 1215, 1216
(Nev. 1998); see also State v. Lisenbee, 13 P.3d 947, 950
(Nev. 2000) (describing § 171.123 as "[t]he Nevada codifica-
tion of Terry"). Section 171.123 further states that "[a]ny per-
son so detained shall identify himself, but may not be
compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer."
Nev. Rev. Stat. § 171.123(3) (emphasis added). The other
statute relied upon by Agent Spendlove makes it a misdemea-
nor for a person, "after due notice, [to] refuse or neglect to
make or furnish any statement, report or information lawfully
required of him by any public officer . . . or [to] willfully hin-
der, delay or obstruct any public officer in the discharge of his
official powers or duties." Nev. Rev. Stat. § 197.190. Read
together, these two statutes require individuals stopped pursu-
ant to Terry to identify themselves to police, on pain of com-
mitting a crime

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:43 pm

The Identification axe is between 197.190 and 171.123. Scenario - Cop sez "Let me see your ID" (his official duty to ID you to make sure you're not a wanted felon or somesuch), and you don't comply (provide him the necessary statement, report, or information) (.123) hindering his official duty (to ID you) (.190) you're sunk. They've been using this 1-2 whammy since I was there in the late 1970's.

My main point was this, tho... It doesn't matter what the law says when youre at home or elsewhere. You're on Nevada Turf, and their law applies. Case in point - posession *may* be legal where you come from, but except for very narrow circumstances (like being a licensed Nevada Resident Medical Marijuana User) it's not legal there. EVEN if you have a California Medical MJ Card, your not in compliance with NEVADA law.

People somehow get the idea their home law applies, but it doesn't.

Now... had the guy had his ID, he wouldn't have opened his previously unidentified camp (or campmate) to a reasonable suspicion search by having to open up and go into his tent to get his car keys, to open up his car for his ID card. Would have been inconvenient, but do-able. (Wondering if someone from the LEAL team was there??)

Bottom line - You're in a foreign state, so know the laws. And Heli said it best - Don't dance unless you're willing to pay the fiddler. Period.

bb

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:19 pm

So- to summarize -

Don't fiddle the dancer unless you are willing to pay.

Don't crap where you sleep.
Don't dip your ink in the company well.
Don't piss into the wind.
Don't wake a sleeping dog.
Don't take any wooden nickles.

and Don't F*** with the LEO's at Burningman.

Okay. Got it.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:10 pm

Cabanasprings wrote:So- to summarize - ...

and Don't F*** with the LEO's at Burningman.

Okay. Got it.

Hmmm... C'mon Cabana.

(I can't believe of all people I gotta tell you this)...

The word is not F-*-*-*...

Now, say it with Auntie Sue...

F-U-C-K.

FUCK.

Now, everyone together...

FUCK!

Thank you.

Returning you to taking the mundane sleepiness of Dipping the company dog crap in the windy nickle well... but only when you're not diddling the wooden... uh... never mind...

bb

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:20 pm

Perhaps he's at work and has to watch what he types?????

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:41 pm

That was for you Sue because I knew that your response to that would make me laugh - which it did- thank you.

I try not to ever (hold on a minnnutttee) put myself in a (waitttt ) position where I (uh ohhhh) have look over my fucking back. bye......

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:33 pm

Yo I once was speeding 10+ mph over the limit, my tags were expired and I had a felony load of martial arts weapons clearly visible in my car.

We the trooper approached me the fist damn words out of my mouth were and always will be:
"Was I driving unsafely officer?"

Got off with a warning.

Be smart, people.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:35 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote: They've been using this 1-2 whammy since I was there in the late 1970's.
My main point was this, tho... It doesn't matter what the law says when youre at home or elsewhere. You're on Nevada Turf, and their law applies. Case in point - posession *may* be legal where you come from, but except for very narrow circumstances (like being a licensed Nevada Resident Medical Marijuana User) it's not legal there. EVEN if you have a California Medical MJ Card, your not in compliance with NEVADA law.
People somehow get the idea their home law applies, but it doesn't.

Now... had the guy had his ID, he wouldn't have opened his previously unidentified camp (or campmate) to a reasonable suspicion search by having to open up and go into his tent to get his car keys, to open up his car for his ID card. Would have been inconvenient, but do-able. (Wondering if someone from the LEAL team was there??)

Bottom line - You're in a foreign state, so know the laws. And Heli said it best - Don't dance unless you're willing to pay the fiddler. Period.

bb

My point was simply about your statement in regards to ID requirements in Nevada not about Marijuana or any thing else it seems to be somewhat misleading when applied to an ordinary law abiding citizen.
I was raised in California, I lived in Nevada in the late 70's myself, and I have lived in Texas and Florida too and managed to never see the inside of a jail in any of those states.
You said it was LAW that you had to carry ID and I digress. You made very valid points about carrying ID if your "Dancing" and they are very good points but
I can find a lot of cites in regards to just verbally identifying yourself too.

And anyone that feels his home turf rules apply is an idiot and deserves what he gets!

Anyhow I am more concerned about loss of our rights in this day and age and that is the perspective I was coming from that is why I researched your statement which I found to be shocking on its face value because I knew of other case law where I thought this had all been sorted out. LEO's had tried to make everybody on a bus show ID and it had been upheld that it was an unconstitutional requirement.
And there is a Supreme Court case coming up in regards to showing ID to board aircraft since there is no public law for this requirement the Fed’s are claiming it is a secret law!
My concern and perspective is of America turning into a police state.

And simply not carrying my wallet around the Playa!

Cabanasprings wrote:So- to summarize -
and Don't F*** with the LEO's at Burningman.
Okay. Got it.

Being aware of the Law and your Civil Rights is not "fucking with the LEO's" as much as some would like it to be so I guess I do not get it!

No flames intended just discussion
See Ya on the Playa

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:41 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Yo I once was speeding 10+ mph over the limit, my tags were expired and I had a felony load of martial arts weapons clearly visible in my car.

We the trooper approached me the fist damn words out of my mouth were and always will be:
"Was I driving unsafely officer?"

Got off with a warning.

Be smart, people.

Very good point cut all unnecessary discussion off your not buddies sitting in a bar!

Surviving police encounters

The meek are lead to the slaughter

Did you know that gifting someone in the ass is illegal?

Re: Did you know that gifting someone in the ass is illegal?

Re: Did you know that gifting someone in the ass is illegal?

Re: Did you know that gifting someone in the ass is illegal?

Show your papers!

Re: Show your papers!

Re: Show your papers!